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"So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 1:10:14 PM
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GHitch
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Seen on a bumper sticker: "So many Christians, So few lions."
A clear homicidal sentiment.
What if that bumper sticker said rather, "So many Jews, so few gas chambers"?
Or,"So many blacks, so few ropes."
Or,"So many Muslims, so few grenades"?
How long do you think it would it take for a vehicle with such a sticker to be pulled over? Or even molotov cocktailed? Twenty minutes maybe?
The double standard is evident everywhere.
So when will bumper stickers turn into actions?
I've seen many atheists on other web forums proudly proclaiming the same murderous sentiments.
I've seen demands and expressed wishes for assassinations against the Pope, pastors, priests and politicians who are even just marginally Xian far more often than I would have expected.
What should Xians do to amend these murderous attitudes fostered by Satan's dupes all around the world these days?
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 1:18:45 PM
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Liveloved
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Count yourself worthy.
Rejoice!
And pray that all Christians everywhere see it this way! This bumpersticker is cause for love and prayer.
_____________________________
Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 1:52:10 PM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Count yourself worthy.
Rejoice!
And pray that all Christians everywhere see it this way! This bumpersticker is cause for love and prayer.
Amen...I agree. And, I've seen that particular sticker.
Romans 8:17
and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 2:00:08 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Count yourself worthy.
Rejoice!
And pray that all Christians everywhere see it this way! This bumpersticker is cause for love and prayer. Indeed, love and prayer are great things and a necessary part of the Xian response.
I understand that part of the whole.
An average of 171,000 Christians worldwide are martyred for their faith per year.
No offense intended of course, but I can't see some satanist or atheist retard(s) - with these homicidal sentiments - trying to rape and kill my kids as something to rejoice over. No, no more than I can see the way radical Muslims in other countries attack, rape and murder Xians as such. No more than I can see the millions of believers that were slaughtered in atheistic communist nations as such.
Nor can I see the necessary effect such "messages" convey - say in the school yard, playground or even on the job - as blessings. They aren't.
Nothing in scripture tells us we have to put up with such homicidal hate propaganda.
Nothing in scripture tells us we have to lie down and let murderous sentiment invade our nation or neighborhood.
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 2:05:30 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5581
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
Nothing in scripture tells us we have to put up with such homicidal hate propaganda.
Nothing in scripture tells us we have to lie down and let murderous sentiment invade our nation or neighborhood.
But scripture does tell us to respond in love. That vengence belongs to God.
Not saying it's easy...
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 2:27:00 PM
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Elena1030
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OH!
I thought this thread was going to be about Christians' defending the gospel.... courageous as a lion. Guess I had Aslan on the brain.
Oh, well....
The bumper sticker shouldn't surprise us.
I know where I'm gonna be - whether my death is at the "hands" of lions or something else.
But those who propagate such things as that bumper sticker.... Well, that's not my decision... where they go. But if they refuse God's extended hand of grace and His gift of salvation through Christ... we're told where they go. Natural consequence of that choice.
I really don't want to be ripped to shreds and eaten, though. That would be painful!
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 3:03:27 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
Nothing in scripture tells us we have to put up with such homicidal hate propaganda.
Nothing in scripture tells us we have to lie down and let murderous sentiment invade our nation or neighborhood.
But scripture does tell us to respond in love. That vengence belongs to God.
Not saying it's easy...
I wasn't inferring to any sort of vengeance.
I was referring to positive action - something we can do concretely. Like maybe public demonstrations, newspaper articles, blogging it, TV ads, awareness efforts or even just this thread...
Xians are no where required to roll over and let anyone who pleases walk all over them.
And so what is the response of love exactly?
Love seeks the highest good.
It has nothing to do with fluffy feelings or groveling words of bowing before evil.
As it was said by Edmund Burke, "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
And, "There is, however, a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue."
And never forget that, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
So: When John the baptist or Christ publicly rebuked the "generation of vipers" was that love? Of course.
When Christ made a whip and kicked tables over and kicked thieves out of the temple, was that love? Yes.
Love tells the truth. Love doesn't lie down and play dead. quote:
Wisdom is crying out in the street; her voice is loud in the open places;
Her words are sounding in the meeting-places, and in the doorways of the town:
How long, you simple ones, will foolish things be dear to you? and pride a delight to the haters of authority? how long will the foolish go on hating knowledge?
Be turned again by my sharp words: see, I will send the flow of my spirit on you, and make my words clear to you.
Because your ears were shut to my voice; no one gave attention to my out-stretched hand;
You were not controlled by my guiding, and would have nothing to do with my sharp words:
So in the day of your trouble I will be laughing; I will make sport of your fear;
When your fear comes on you like a storm, and your trouble like a rushing wind; when pain and sorrow come on you.
Then I will give no answer to their cries; searching for me early, they will not see me:
For they were haters of knowledge, and did not give their hearts to the fear of the Lord - prov 1 Something like that is what I'm getting at.
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 3:09:56 PM
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doinkdom
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Okay, but this is NOT a hill for me to die on...I'll keep returning love for anger and not let a bumper sticker stop me. I just have no conviction on this to do anything like what you mentioned.
I think I'll save my strength for the real persecution of the saints, not cultural insensitivity.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 5:33:58 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
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GHitch, Shalom.
May I ask why you seem to be so intent on calling Christians 'Xtians'? The Title you are 'Xing' out is "Christ", the title of Jesus/Yaushuah, and for some reason, today I am quite sensitive to this, and wonder about any use that denigrates Messiah.
If you want to 'X' something, 'X' 'Xmas.' Christ had nothing to do with being born at solstice.
In Messiah, His Blessing. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 9/30/2009 5:59:20 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
GHitch, Shalom.
May I ask why you seem to be so intent on calling Christians 'Xtians'? The Title you are 'Xing' out is "Christ", the title of Jesus/Yaushuah, and for some reason, today I am quite sensitive to this, and wonder about any use that denigrates Messiah.
If you want to 'X' something, 'X' 'Xmas.' Christ had nothing to do with being born at solstice.
In Messiah, His Blessing. Arley
But is using X really "X'ing" out Christ?
Isn't X also the Greek letter Chi... and the X has often stood for Jesus Christ -- like in the ichthus? (I don't know how to type in Greek symbols on here.)
I figure if a fellow believer wants to use a typing shortcut and type X, especially someone whose heart is for apologetics as GHitch's is, his/her intent isn't to denigrate Christ.
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Prayer thread for singles who desire to marry someday
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 9:25:24 AM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
GHitch, Shalom.
May I ask why you seem to be so intent on calling Christians 'Xtians'? The Title you are 'Xing' out is "Christ", the title of Jesus/Yaushuah, and for some reason, today I am quite sensitive to this, and wonder about any use that denigrates Messiah.
Let me explain. Fyi, X is also the Greek letter chi which was used by the 1st Christians to represent the full name of Christ. Thus there is no Xing out of Christ rather an Xing in of Christ simply for speed and s-pace saving over the web.
Same applies to Xmas - which is not an Xing out but an Xing in for short hand.
So, rather than denigrating Messiah as you claim, I am simply using an ages old form that re-presents his glorious name!
I'm surprised there are still Xians around that don't know this!
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 10:54:43 AM
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Liveloved
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Okay, but this is NOT a hill for me to die on...I'll keep returning love for anger and not let a bumper sticker stop me. I just have no conviction on this to do anything like what you mentioned.
I think I'll save my strength for the real persecution of the saints, not cultural insensitivity.
Unfortunately this IS real persecution. Thus, as sure as seeds grow, if we Xians sit around doing nothing, it WILL get worse.
OK, GHitch, how did Jesus respond to the actions/provocations of others? Or what was Paul's response/teaching for the first believers? They suffered much worse things than a bumpersticker on a car. How did they respond?
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 12:03:51 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
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Ghitch, Shalom, and apologies.
I see so much on the Jewish Forums the 'Xing' out of names for Christian, I had a brain 'burp.' I didn't appreciate your last statement, as I have just as much right to post as do you, and as much right to misunderstand as do you. Sorry your Xtianity fell on it's sword, there (IMO).
In Messiah, His blessing. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 12:05:23 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
OK, GHitch, how did Jesus respond to the actions/provocations of others? Or what was Paul's response/teaching for the first believers? They suffered much worse things than a bumpersticker on a car. How did they respond?
1. It seems you're missing the point here.
There are about 170,000 Xians murdered every year. Do you really want to see that come to America?
What is the love you would show? What is your concrete, real life reaction?
I keep asking this but no response.
How is the guy in the car with the sticker going to know or care for any unfelt invisible love?
2. You tell me how Jesus, Paul etc. would respond if you believe you know?
But I'll answer your question differently: As a Xian in Nazi Germany circa 1940 how does love respond to Nazis slaughtering Jews (and their defenders) in the street or forcing them into cattle cars? Do you believe you could tell these Jews, "Hey don't worry, rejoice that you are counted worthy to suffer"? And that's it?
Would you say that you'd do nothing but "love" the Nazis back? How?
Is "Don't worry be happy" the solution to preventing persecution?
It seems to me that you're basically saying "do nothing", and calling that "love".
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 12:11:28 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
I didn't appreciate your last statement, as I have just as much right to post as do you, and as much right to misunderstand as do you. Sorry your Xtianity fell on it's sword, there (IMO).
What? Do you refer to "I'm surprised there are still Xians around that don't know this!"?
Why do you react so sensitively to such a banal statement as though I insulted your knowledge or something. And why this bit on "right to post and misunderstand"? Where did I ever say or even imply you had no right to post or misunderstand?
My "Xtianity fell on it's sword" A little over reacting don't ya think?
A lot of Xians probably still don't know about the use of the X. That kind of surprises me. So?
Whats the big deal? Why so touchy?
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 1:10:34 PM
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doinkdom
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Suffering for Christ is an honor...we may not enjoy it...but it is an honor and part of God's plan for our lives.
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
1 Peter 4:16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.
1 Cor 4:12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.
As for activism...I just don't see it.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 2:37:53 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Suffering for Christ is an honor...we may not enjoy it...but it is an honor and part of God's plan for our lives.
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
1 Peter 4:16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.
1 Cor 4:12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.
As for activism...I just don't see it. So your solution is basically to do nothing? Iow, "make no attempt to change things", is the biblical way in your view? The way of love?
Total pacifism isn't even possible in a fallen world.
While I totally agree all must be done in the love of God, God doesn't expect us to sit around with a wannabe martyr attitude.
Indeed, Lev. 19:17 "Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt." - NISV
"no hate" - great we all agree on that. The rest is not so easy. If your neighbor has done wrong, you must freely and in love, tell him of his fault.
Iow, by doing and saying nothing, we allow them to sin and end up sharing in their sin!
2 tim. 4:1 "I give you orders, before God and Christ Jesus, who will be the judge of the living and the dead, and by his revelation and his kingdom; Be preaching the word at all times, in every place; make protests, say sharp words, give comfort, with long waiting and teaching;"
Is that activism?
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 3:10:36 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5581
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
2 tim. 4:1 "I give you orders, before God and Christ Jesus, who will be the judge of the living and the dead, and by his revelation and his kingdom; Be preaching the word at all times, in every place; make protests, say sharp words, give comfort, with long waiting and teaching;"
Is that activism?
Leviticus is about God establishing community, guidelines for OT believers to live in community.
2 Timothy is an exhortation to Timothy in contrast to false teachers. Having focused almost exclusively on the false teachers in 3:1–9, Paul addresses Timothy directly on how he must resist the opponents and remain faithful to the gospel.
****************
Nobody said lie down and take it...but really...what is there to take? Isn't our job to preach the good news of the Gospel to everyone? How does that compare to what you're suggesting?
I'm not saying you're completely wrong...in fact righteous anger should provoke action. I'm just not convinced moral activism is that action and I haven't seen suggestions for anything else.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 4:58:32 PM
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schtumpy
Posts: 900
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
OK, GHitch, how did Jesus respond to the actions/provocations of others? Or what was Paul's response/teaching for the first believers? They suffered much worse things than a bumpersticker on a car. How did they respond?
1. It seems you're missing the point here.
There are about 170,000 Xians murdered every year. Do you really want to see that come to America?
I think the bumper sticker is wrong and the sentiment repugnant.
"But murderous intent"?
Now you quote 170,000 "Xians" murdered every year.
I'm only guessing that the bumpersticker is an atheist one.
How many "Xians" are murdered by atheists every year for religious reasons?
How many are murdered by other religious fundamentalists?
There are gay hate murders, black hate murders but I can't recall any "Xian" hate murders.
_____________________________
I deplore what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
- attributed to Voltaire
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 5:03:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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The world is just acting as it should... You can't have a call to arms over a bumper sticker...When or more like if they come for you or those you are charged with keeping safe give them both barrels... Until that time laugh it off... Actually some of the so called pro God bumper stickers are quite offensive in that they tend bring God down and not really exult Him...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/1/2009 5:06:13 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6366
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From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: schtumpy
quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
OK, GHitch, how did Jesus respond to the actions/provocations of others? Or what was Paul's response/teaching for the first believers? They suffered much worse things than a bumpersticker on a car. How did they respond?
1. It seems you're missing the point here.
There are about 170,000 Xians murdered every year. Do you really want to see that come to America?
I think the bumper sticker is wrong and the sentiment repugnant.
"But murderous intent"?
Now you quote 170,000 "Xians" murdered every year.
I'm only guessing that the bumpersticker is an atheist one.
How many "Xians" are murdered by atheists every year for religious reasons?
How many are murdered by other religious fundamentalists?
There are gay hate murders, black hate murders but I can't recall any "Xian" hate murders.
God says the world hates Him and those who follow Him.... Christ's death was a murder by those who hated Him due to what He believed... As well those who followed Him who were murdered, some by Saul who later came to be Paul...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: "So many Christians, So few lions." - 10/2/2009 9:00:07 AM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The world is just acting as it should... You can't have a call to arms over a bumper sticker...When or more like if they come for you or those you are charged with keeping safe give them both barrels... Until that time laugh it off... Actually some of the so called pro God bumper stickers are quite offensive in that they tend bring God down and not really exult Him... The world is acting as it shouldn't actually but I get your point as per, "if they hated me they will also hate you" etc..
I'm certainly not asking for a call to arms.
I'm am saying that Xians should start seriously thinking of a far better means of informing the public on the facts than the useless "wait until they come to church or watch our TV show" attitude (they won't, for the most part). Worse, the waiting for them to 'come and get you' wannabe martyr attitude.
If we don't educate the public, the enemy will - and already has.
I haven't seen too many pro God bumper stickers but it would not surprise me that many are offensive, if not just plain silly or 'dumb'.
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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