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A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/22/2008 7:27:19 PM
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NewDiscovery
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was thinking ''why do church still people die''?
is it because of 1 corn. 1 v 10 - how ''the house'' has been divided and cannot stand?
Has this ''house'' been abandoned by the Holy Spirit and is the devil now in control.?
Is the church a counterfeit because of rebellion?
Does the Holy Spirit love mammon, the churches thrive upon?
Perhaps we need to ask serious questions, cuz the church today is nothing like the group trained up by Yahushua Messiah.
Also
the wages of sin is death.
how can a person who has been
1] forgiven
2] covered by the Blood of the Lamb
3] born again as a new creature, where all old things have passed away and new things appear.
4] santified
5] renewed daily
6] under now no condemnation
etc - still die from sins and be in the grave?
2 tim 1 v 10 - is the believer's gospel?
let us look together
1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
Paul was an appointed Apostle, teacher and Preacher of this Gospel.-abolishing death and life and immortality - how wonderfull is this????
1] abolishing death
2] has now brought to light
3]LIFE AND IMMORTALITY.
NOW THAT sounds like a new creation born again and saved doesn't it?
People who remain alive and have conquered their last enemy death rather than toppling into the tomb.
the bible is telling a person a few things, that stop death.....yet.....church people still die.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/22/2008 7:51:52 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 845
Joined: 11/8/2007
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I do not see "The Church" in Scripture. I see churches(groups) of believers who are freed from the law of sin and death. However, though some are relieved of the suffering caused by the curses that are the result of not following Adonai, most are not. This is for our benefit, so that we will see, learn and choose each day live by Adonai's ways and not according to the law of sin and death.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/22/2008 8:19:52 PM
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NewDiscovery
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a better hope
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? (NASB
perfection was NOT brought thru the priesthood of AAron therefore another priest has to arise!
This High Priest has THE BETTER HOPE of endless life. perfecting endless life in a believer that is!!!
but who will believe such a thing.
not too many!!
not too many people have this better hope on earth, only for ''when they die''.
but
these 2 words ENDLESS LIFE - is life without end - not an interrupted life by the grave.
do u know an amazing thing here.
I have not seen this happen before in reverse....
when i wrote ENDLESS LIFE.... the 2 words that are ''hidden'' ARE
LIFELESS END
IF a believer does not HAVE THIS ENDLESS LIFE - they have become
Quote:
: lifeless - having no life
: dead
: inanimate
: lacking qualities expressive of life and vigor
: insipid
: destitute of living beings
sin and the grave have robbed people of the best!
notice this please.
Yahushua said ''I [the great I AM] will BUILD MY CHURCH [not divisional churches, building their empires] and the gates of hell/grave the openings into death [death's portals] shall not prevail [get the better of] her.
HIS CHURCH
HIS LIVING STONES
with HIS BELIEF
with HIS STANDARDS
HIS HEADSHIP - PASSING INTO HIS BODY.
NO GRAVE
NO SIN
with PERFECTING abilities - WITHOUT SPOT NOR WRINKLE
HIS WORKMANSHIP.
the Head and His body co-joined. [ a living picture]
Quote:
Such a high priest meets every need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens" ( Heb 7:26).
all die
all sin
all are rebels
yet
there is a group of spiritually elite believer's being formed as living stones into the BETTER HOPE of endless life.
They do not die in a grave {Martha's belief John 11 v 24] but remain alive, and in the POWER POWER POWER of endless life they are taught how to overcome death, their last enemy
now who shall believe that!!!
__________________
Saints ALIVE~!
''what is going to work'' = teamwork?
''what is true for THE HEAD, is true for His body, therefore
heaven is NOT a divine retirement village!''
For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/22/2008 10:42:55 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 929
Joined: 7/31/2007
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Every single on of Jesus's disciples died, most were brutally martyred. Are you saying we should somehow be avoiding death when they certainly didn't?
Eternal life is not on this imperfect, fallen planet, which frankly is a mercy. Who would want to be here forever?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/23/2008 2:58:47 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1087
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The fact is that the body of this earth (the flesh) is still under the curse of sin and has cravings for wickedness that we used to enjoy prior to being saved. Because this earthly body is still bound to the curse, it will die at some point... unless you are one of the fortunates who are in that 1Corinthians 15 crowd who see Jesus and are changed in the twinkling of an eye. This mortal must put on immortality, and the corruptible must clothe itself in the incorruptible. Until Christ returns to break the curse of sin once and for all, death is a natural part of the life-cycle. As one pop-philosopher said, "We will all die. It is our choice how we go."
I would suggest to the OP that they go check out 1st Corinthians 15 to see what the plan for our mortality is.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/23/2008 8:22:48 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewDiscovery
...yet
there is a group of spiritually elite believer's being formed as living stones into the BETTER HOPE of endless life.
They do not die in a grave {Martha's belief John 11 v 24] but remain alive, and in the POWER POWER POWER of endless life they are taught how to overcome death, their last enemy
now who shall believe that!!!
That sort of error has been around for some time. And, as scripture informs us, those "enlightened" few eventually die like every other mortal being. Those stupid enough to continue in the error simply denounce them as having strayed or failed to sustain enough faith to continue.
Show me a single 200 year-old man or woman with the appearance and the constitution of a 21 year-old and I'll give you a little serious attention. Until then, I'll just keep the concept in the same category as other Looney Tune Theology.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/23/2008 6:03:26 PM
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NewDiscovery
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Joined: 4/22/2008
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no... it is in the NT....
all there for the believer to be enlighted and metamorphoo-ed by 
quote:
Benjamin A. Wulf wrote
saying
''The leper was a living parable in the world of sin of which death was the wages."
but did ye ever notice this please.
Quote:
when MESSIAH TOUCHED THE LEPER, He did not receive this disease.
see
the reversal of this Adamic curse was already WITHIN the Saviour and Messiah = that is exactly what HE CAME TO DELIVER! - the new covenant, with the new creature residing within called eternal life.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/23/2008 6:25:29 PM
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NewDiscovery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Are you saying you want eternal life on this earth?
Thanks, I'll pass.
that is what the bible says.
heaven is a realm within and not a location.
It is the realm messiah walked in on earth - His Kingdom - doing His Father's will.
consider this please = being in CONTEMPT of Court.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the divine court that is!
is when
Quote:
''The spirit of anti-christ which is within man hates the truth that the Glory of God can be contained in a physical body. ''
Yahushua of Nazareth is living proof of this advent in the ROYAL COURT, of the universe.
SO! what of the Father's judgement on such an evil position - death!
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/23/2008 6:56:18 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 845
Joined: 11/8/2007
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I believe we are called to reclaim the earth from Ha Satan in the name of Adonai, if that is what you are refering to. However, I do not believe that will happen until Shiloah(The Messiah) comes an reinstitutes Adonai's ways.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/24/2008 1:40:02 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 929
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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quote:
that is what the bible says.
If you're going to say "that is what the bible says" you'd probably better have verse references for whatever you're saying next.
Otherwise it's too easy to counter "No, it doesn't".
Which, it doesn't.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/24/2008 1:50:35 AM
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NewDiscovery
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Joined: 4/22/2008
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perhaps we have different bibles,
one is where the uneducated carnal mind reads it like a story book the other is where the Holy Spirit is the teacher,
when the Holy Spirit is the teacher He opens up the scriptures of the life, RATHER than the church who cannot. Hireling and tares in control = a powerless form.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/24/2008 9:41:24 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5010
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewDiscovery
perhaps we have different bibles,
one is where the uneducated carnal mind reads it like a story book the other is where the Holy Spirit is the teacher,
when the Holy Spirit is the teacher He opens up the scriptures of the life, RATHER than the church who cannot. Hireling and tares in control = a powerless form.
Dear enlightened one, I have been a believer for 41 years and have been an ardent student of the Bible all that time with the Holy Spirit within in me to illumine it's passages. I also have read it from Genesis to Revelation numerous times. What you are proposing is silly error based on a twisting of and a partial understanding of scripture.
It is error and following those who teach it will lead you down a path away from Jesus Christ and His purpose for you.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/24/2008 10:44:58 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1772
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewDiscovery
now who shall believe that!!!
On this site most likely nobody. This site is too professionally done and maintained to turn into a breeding ground of some weird teachings. I can bet you money on that.
See, ND...
Any doctrine can be proven with the help of random verses linked together ,vivid imagination and being vague... The whole art of doing that been invented, it’s being taught in Law School - taking a text and proving that is says whatever you wish it to say. Nothing is impossible to prove for a good lawyer, and there is no crazy religious idea that can’s get at least a small following.
I would give your posts an A+ if the assignment was to throw as much unrelated to each other biblical excerpts and sorta spiritual words while sounding extremely clandestine and divinely enlightened. However, despite being, I am sure, quite neatly concocted, you idea is not well-done.
The wheels fall off here:
Hebrews 9 27 Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment,
Have you come up yet with explaining this one away? ( i am sure you have , but the point...)
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: A Better hope/ still the church people die - 4/24/2008 11:14:16 AM
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Ps103
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