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And when death, like a Gypsy, comes to steal... - 6/23/2008 5:41:19 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3445
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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Jars of Clay:
And when death, like a gypsy,
Comes to steal what I love . . .
This song just played on the radio. These lines have always really bothered me, and I was wondering what you think of them.
"Comes" in the poetry indicates someone who comes upon another, possibly as in travel, with which the word Gypsy is synonymous both in history and today. "To steal" in the poetry assumes theft for which Gypsies are prejudged.
I wonder why they let this song through without making some changes in the otherwise fine song. It embarrasses me.
Could we similarly get by with:
And when my temper, like an Italian's,
Gets the best of me . . .
-or-
And my heart's unclean, like an Irish parlor
-or-
I can be about as mean as a common fat-jowled crackah
???
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: And when death, like a Gypsy, comes to steal... - 6/23/2008 5:53:27 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3799
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I've actually had discussion about "gypsy" in other forums and it got quite heated. I think the PC name for the people "Gypsy" refers to is "Roma." (And I believe they prefer to be called such.) When lowercase, "gypsy" has entered the vernacular with several meanings:
1) One inclined to a nomadic, unconventional way of life.
2) A part-time or temporary member of a college faculty.
3) A member of the chorus line in a theater production.
4) An independent, usually nonunion trucker, hauler, operator, etc.
5) An owner of racehorses who also acts as trainer and jockey.
(all from dictionary.com)
The stealing part of the lyric, I guess, is the problem?
_____________________________
Feel free to tell me what you think about this.
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: And when death, like a Gypsy, comes to steal... - 6/23/2008 7:06:21 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3445
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
The stealing part of the lyric, I guess, is the problem?
Yes, it bothers me. A lot. When my son and I were traveling one time, we ran into this in what someone we love said to us, and we were both shocked that this is still being said. Then to hear it on the radio in a commonly-played song, it was amazing.
I like this young group, but they made a mistake. They need to rewrite the song, because Gypsy is still the term commonly used for this particular people-group and others. I understand that they have been using the other term for a long time, but that does not sever the name from them.
It is like when I lived in Minneapolis, and there was a valiant effort among some to sever the term "dumb" from those who are deaf. The movement failed to a huge portion of the English-speaking population, although some see that the term should be dropped, because of other obvious connotations.
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Oh, and I forgot to mention: I must admit that when I was trying to think of the final term, after I hit "OK" to send it here, I absolutely cracked up! I had never said, written, or thought of any term even similar to quote:
mean as a common fat-jowled crackah before, and it caught me off-guard. I thought I would not quit laughing!
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 6/23/2008 7:16:10 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: And when death, like a Gypsy, comes to steal... - 6/23/2008 7:18:05 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5566
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: online
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It could be a matter of where the members of Jars of Clay live/grew up... many that do not live in one of the two larger cities (Chicago/New York) are not really aware that there are indeed "Gypsies" (as an ethnic group) living in our nation.
My city has large pockets of them and ironically many do make crime/con games/etc their living.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: And when death, like a Gypsy, comes to steal... - 6/24/2008 3:56:43 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 334
Joined: 7/14/2005
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There's 2 groups of Gypsies in the US, the Roma and the Irish travellers. They are ethnically and culturally very different from each other.
The Irish Gypsies have been more involved in home improvement scams including stealing from homes they were supposed to be working on. They also hit retail stores en mass and get into the back office to rip off the money at shift's end, and are meticulous about thoroughly casing the storeso as to know staff, security, and where everything is at. There wasa special on one of the evening news shows a few years ago, 60 Minutes I think, where a woman who was married to a Traveller and a "former" Traveller both discussed the lifestyle. Onceyou leave the Travellers, you are shunned and considered dead.
The Roma, who originated in northern India as far as can be determined, are also considered thieves as a whole but the ones I know are honest folks who work for a living. They do keep their cultures and have several branches. Some of my ancestors were Spanish Gypsies who fled from Spain into France during the Inquisition, stayed there a couple of generations and then immigrated to America to flee persecution- they had become Protestants or Huegnots in addition to being Gypsy, so it was leave or get killed. Interstingly, flamenco dancing and what most people refer to as Spanish guitar playing are actually Spanish Gypsy music and dance.
I remember my mother once telling me that when she was being naughty her grandmother threatened to sell her to the Gypsies. I find that as insulting and just plain stupid as being told that drinking coffee will turn you black, which she was also told.
Maybe somebody needs to write whoever did that song and explain it to them.
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RE: And when death, like a Gypsy, comes to steal... - 6/24/2008 4:09:14 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3799
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
There's 2 groups of Gypsies in the US, the Roma and the Irish travellers. They are ethnically and culturally very different from each other.
Ah yes, this is also true. I forgot about the Travellers.
_____________________________
Feel free to tell me what you think about this.
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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