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Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradition of men..
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Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradition... - 7/9/2008 11:58:48 AM
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notmycity
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A question was asked about man’s tradition on another thread, so I thought I’d open it up on another thread.
Col 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
There have been many such “rudiments of the world” taught as doctrine, so perhaps this is a good topic to discuss.
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/9/2008 12:33:21 PM
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DaveW
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And what were traditions of man Paul spoke of? The oral tradition of Pharasaic Judaism.
Paul also says elsewhere:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Traditions themselves are not bad. It is just where the tradition came from.
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/9/2008 1:13:13 PM
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MrFribbles
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Another important thing to consider is the words "not after Christ." These teachings which Paul was preaching against were those that had no founding in the truth of God. This verse says nothing about traditions which are formed with the heart and intent of glorifying God.
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Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/9/2008 2:33:12 PM
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Liveloved
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Another thing to notice is "after the rudiments of the world". These are traditions that please the self rather than God---lusts of the flesh, lusts of the eyes, and the boastful pride of life which proceeds from the world. (IJohn 2:16)
Traditions that are after Christ can be wonderful, good and helpful. It is the knowing the difference, being able to discern good from evil, that is needful.
This is why a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is imperative. Only through that relationship can you know what is of the world and what is of Him. It is not intellectually learned. It is spiritually discerned and revealed. Hence, Paul's warning to his fellow believers. Do not depend on others to teach you of Christ. Second hand information can be misinformation. Go to the Source, Jesus, and learn of Him.
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/9/2008 9:04:20 PM
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prophet
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Is celebrating Christmas/Easter the rudiments of this world?
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/9/2008 9:15:39 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Is celebrating Christmas/Easter the rudiments of this world?
check the archives for the endless arguements
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A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 8:17:19 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
Second hand information can be misinformation. Go to the Source, Jesus, and learn of Him. If that is so, why did God establish preachers and teachers in the redeemed community?
Eph 4:11 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers;
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 12:32:01 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
And what were traditions of man Paul spoke of? The oral tradition of Pharasaic Judaism.
Paul also says elsewhere:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Traditions themselves are not bad. It is just where the tradition came from.
An excellent observation!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
Second hand information can be misinformation. Go to the Source, Jesus, and learn of Him. If that is so, why did God establish preachers and teachers in the redeemed community?
Eph 4:11 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers;
Correct and those who ignore that truth are guilty of following their own philosophy and vain deceit.
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 1:43:01 PM
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jazzact13
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quote:
And what were traditions of man Paul spoke of? The oral tradition of Pharasaic Judaism.
That may have been a part of it, but was it the whole things? Paul was likely writing to people of both the Jewish race and of Gentile races, so it may be wondered how much Gentiles would have been influenced by Pharasaic Judaism? Paul does mentio circumcision a few verses later, and it seems in the same context, so your point may be accurate to a degree, though he also mentions things like eating and drinking and religious festivals.
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 1:49:53 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Another important thing to consider is the words "not after Christ." These teachings which Paul was preaching against were those that had no founding in the truth of God. This verse says nothing about traditions which are formed with the heart and intent of glorifying God.
Care to name a few of those please?
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 3:04:26 PM
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bjay0801
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Another important thing to consider is the words "not after Christ." These teachings which Paul was preaching against were those that had no founding in the truth of God. This verse says nothing about traditions which are formed with the heart and intent of glorifying God.
Care to name a few of those please?
I have one. Matthew 15
15:1
Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
15:2
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
15:4
There is no commandment any where in the first 5 books that command men to wash their hands (in accordance with the orthodox pharisees)
Another one is found in Acts 1:12
Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey *.
There again is a "tradition of the elders", meaning a person could only walk so far a distance before it becomes laborous. Still the key words are traditions not after Christ. If the tradition is upheld over the word of God then it has become a tradtion of men. The church has the same thing, such as don't drink alcohal. It's not a bad idea since most who do drink do so to become drunk. But it's not a sin either, drunkeness is the sin. (I'm not saying that I drink, btw  ) Or women can't wear pants in church. That took on a whole new tradition on it's own.
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O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 3:50:31 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Care to name a few of those please?
Which ones, the good or the bad?
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 3:59:59 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
And what were traditions of man Paul spoke of? The oral tradition of Pharasaic Judaism.
Paul also says elsewhere:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
You’ll have to show evidence that Paul was merely speaking of “The oral tradition of Pharasaic Judaism”.
Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:15, that dovetails with:
Acts 2:42
42 And THEY CONTINUED STEDFASTLY IN THE APOSTLES' DOCTRINE and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
1 Cor 11:2
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and KEEP THE ORDINANCES, AS I DELIVERED THEM TO YOU.
Col 1:23
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister...
2 Pet 3:1-2
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, AND OF THE COMMANDMENT OF US THE APOSTLES of the Lord and Saviour..
Clearly the only allowable traditions were/are those taught and modeled by the apostles via Scripture.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 4:01:16 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Care to name a few of those please?
Which ones, the good or the bad?
Please start with "the good"...
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 4:52:38 PM
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SuspenseWriter
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When our sons were very small, we came up with the idea of baking a "birthday cake for Jesus" on Christmas. It seemed an excellent way of showing them Who exactly we were celebrating. It became quite meaningful to us, and our oldest son and his wife (missionaries now) are doing the same with their kids. So I guess you could say it's a "tradition" we started. Honest to Pete, some Christians insist on getting offended at the most trivial things. Sad really...
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John Robinson
writer of suspense...obviously!
www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 5:24:55 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
When our sons were very small, we came up with the idea of baking a "birthday cake for Jesus" on Christmas. It seemed an excellent way of showing them Who exactly we were celebrating. It became quite meaningful to us, and our oldest son and his wife (missionaries now) are doing the same with their kids. So I guess you could say it's a "tradition" we started. Honest to Pete, some Christians insist on getting offended at the most trivial things. Sad really...
I don’t want to turn this into a discussion on Christmas, but that is one such tradition that is outside of the teaching of both Christ and His apostles.
Christ did command observance of His sacrificial death, and not His birth.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 6:27:31 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Please start with "the good"...
Here's a simple one. Translating the Bible. Nowhere is that commanded, or even hinted at, in Scripture.
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 6:42:54 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Please start with "the good"...
Here's a simple one. Translating the Bible. Nowhere is that commanded, or even hinted at, in Scripture.
Any more?
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 6:51:56 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Any more?
Not until you respond to that one.
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 6:56:07 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Any more?
Not until you respond to that one.
I suppose I'll wait until someone mentions "church practice".
Thanks anyway.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 6:59:44 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I suppose I'll wait until someone mentions "church practice".
Thanks anyway.
So you don't read the Bible in your church/gathering of believers?
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 7:02:52 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I suppose I'll wait until someone mentions "church practice".
Thanks anyway.
So you don't read the Bible in your church/gathering of believers?
Our gatherings are built around Scripture.
We’re not on the same page regarding “traditions”.
No worries.
Thanks again.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 7:08:52 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Eph 4:11 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers;
DaveW,
Hopefully this is first hand information that they are passing on. But if they get their 'material' from the internet, books, or other sources then it is secondhand.
At any given moment, each of us should have something to share if we have a relationship with the Lord. And it should not matter whether you are an apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd or teacher. It's about speaking about Who you know.
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/10/2008 7:29:15 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
We’re not on the same page regarding “traditions”.
Then please, define your usage of "traditions."
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Beware lest any man spoil you through.....the tradi... - 7/11/2008 9:41:51 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
Translating the Bible. Nowhere is that commanded, or even hinted at, in Scripture. We have public reading of Scripture (the Torah portion) in Hebrew every week.....
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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