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Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 6/30/2008 8:02:32 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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Ok, first of all it's not my kid. There is another 2 yr old girl in my church who my almost 3 yr old DD plays with. This other girl has two older, very older brothers (10 and 8) and boys will be boys, they rough house. She has learned that. This girl will hit my daughter. Yesterday she took her head in her hands like a melon and bit my daughters head! I saw the whole thing! When I confronted the girl, she said "yeah, and I hit her too!" She didn't break the skin and my daughter didn't hit, kick or bite back, she never does. She just kinda has a dumbfounded look on her face, like "what just happened?" What do I do in these situations? Should I say something to her mother, who happens to be a friend of mine? Is this normal behavior for toddlers? I definitely don't want my daughter picking this up. She hasn't so far. We usually take her out of the situation and talk to her about it. What would you do?
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 6/30/2008 8:12:12 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Was her mother there at the time?
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 6/30/2008 8:52:07 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HomeSpunLady
When I confronted the girl, she said "yeah, and I hit her too!"
This is what got my attention. My ds went through a biting thing and it was awful. Seemed like every time we thought he was over it, it would happen again. With him (maybe with boys who are biters or mean), it's a self-control issue. It freaks me out when it's a girl who is totally in control and doing it for control. We have a little girl in my class at church who went through a severe mean phase at about the same age. She didn't bite but she tormented the rest of the class. My partner who does that class with me one day tried to tell her why not to throw blocks at the other kids by saying "do you know what might happen?" She said, "Sure, they'll get hurt!" Wow.
I'm afraid I don't know of much you can do. Ask the children's minister how she prefers things like that are handled. Since it's your dd (and probably others) who are victim, I'd probably avoid being the one to say anything to the mom, even though you're the teacher. If someone goes and gets her or flashes her kid's number in church every time it happens, maybe she'll find a way to address it.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 6/30/2008 9:43:58 PM
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garsyt
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What is the discipline policy in your church?
I know when I was working with the younger children over VBS's or for church that our policy was that one worker would comfort the hurt child and the other worker would remove the offender to another area for a timeout, and if the behavior continued parents would be paged. We had a nearly 3 year old at one time that would torment the babies by taking away toys and then running a laughing when they cried. He never physically hurt someone but it was getting dangerous because we had a number of babies under the age of 1 that were not walking solidly yet and he came close several times to knocking one of them over. So we very quickly implemented the procedure and only once did we have to call his mom to the room to deal with something.
I would see what policies your church has in place regarding discipline and then have an honest talk with the little girls mother. No body likes being told that their child is misbehaving but sometimes it needs to be done BEFORE someone gets really hurt. As a parent I would WANT to know if my child was hurting someone else so we could take care of the problem quickly, before my child gets the rep of being the "bad kid" that no one wants their children playing with!
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Garsy
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 6/30/2008 10:33:02 PM
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isaacsmom
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quote:
As a parent I would WANT to know if my child was hurting someone else so we could take care of the problem quickly, before my child gets the rep of being the "bad kid" that no one wants their children playing with!
Same here!
If this type of thing happens in a class I am teaching, I take the child aside and talk to him/her about their unacceptable behavior and make him/her sit out for a few minutes.
If there continues to be a problem, we take the child to his/her parents, tell them the problem, and let them deal with it.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 6/30/2008 11:28:11 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
As a parent I would WANT to know if my child was hurting someone else so we could take care of the problem quickly, before my child gets the rep of being the "bad kid" that no one wants their children playing with!
I had this happen during one of ds' biting phases. I was at a birthday party and a friend asked if I'd had problems with ds being bitten in school (I think this was the 2yr old 1 day/week class so not even real preschool but it was at dd's preschool). I told her I hadn't and I really hoped ds didn't get bitten because I was afraid that would set him off again. A couple weeks later, the teacher told me when I picked him up that he had bitten someone that day. I asked if it was my friend's ds and it WAS! So I asked how many times this had happened and they said several times! I was furious at not having been told immediately!! The only way to break a biter is to stay on it and to react quickly and swiftly at the very moment that it happens! Once I was picking him up a couple hours later, what was I going to do to "punish" my two year old who'd completely forgotten by then?? It would be frustrating if mom didn't want to intervene right away with what her dd is doing. But, giving her the benefit of the doubt, chances really are good that she wants to know so she can handle it appropriately.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 1:16:56 AM
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relady
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My son had a friend when he was about that age that was a biter....until he pulled a handful of her hair out. That stopped the biting, strangely enough.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 8:35:28 AM
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kburrow
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It is normal for many kids to try biting when they don't get what they want. It is not normal for the biter's parents to allow it to continue, nor the bitee's parents.
The older brothers are irrelevant. Biting and hitting are wrong period. I don't tolerate it in my kids, and I don't tolerate it toward my kids.
Did this occur at church, or where? Your house, her house, and where is the other mom? Yes, I would tell the other mom. Speak the truth in love, but also set a firm boundary for your child. My son had a brief biting problem at a much younger age, and if it had occurred out of my presence (which it didn't because he was so young and almost always with me), I would have wanted to know so I could deal with it immediately.
Over the years, I've had to confront other moms over their child's behavior, and I've been confronted over my own. Little ones are learning socially acceptable behavior, and they all make mistakes.
It disturbs me that the child was seemingly proud of what she had done. I've never seen that before. Maybe her household is permissive as to violence. Mine is not.
I've only lost one friend over these issues. In that case, her son was repeatedly aggressive toward my child, and my home. Pushing, grabbing, hitting, also hitting my furniture etc. I remember having the thought "I'm glad your daddy works for a TV manufacturer so he can get the employee discount when he ends up having to replace mine".
I tried talking to the mom, and I might as well have been the wind blowing. She never stopped her son from misbehaving, nor did she take any action when I asked that she please see that the aggressive behavior toward my son was stopped. Finally, at our last playdate, her son was again grabbing and pushing my son trying to get his cup of juice, and my "friend" chastises MY son for "tempting" her son.
???
I tactfully backed away from that "friendship", and our kids haven't been in the same room since. Sometime, that becomes necessary. It took months to get to that point, so please understand that I'm not suggesting that you abruptly drop your friend without trying to work it out.
I do not subscribe to the "let the kids work it out" theory of dealing with aggressive or violent behavior. I was beaten many times in school, and my parents didn't do squat about it. Of course, my dad was abusive himself and my mom is a classic enabler of his behavior. I tremendously resent being left to twist in the wind by myself in these situations. I will never stand by and allow my children to be mistreated that way.
This is my standard: If we're talking about behavior that I wouldn't tolerate being done to myself by another adult (biting, hitting, stealing, etc.), then I don't tolerate having it happen to my child.
Please let anyone teach your child that violence is normal. It sounds like you have a sweet daughter with good self control. Please don't let another child or another parent ruin that.
Kim
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 9:35:22 AM
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pbaribeault
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You've gotten some good responses as far as what to do, and I have only a little to add...
We need to refrain from seeing what's not there in a child's response and intention at this age. She was neither 'proud' nor 'mean' and did not intend hurt the way a person who understands that other people are people can intend hurt.
The girls response only indicated that she knew what had ocurred, in a matter of fact way. The exclaimation point indicates that she was emotionally worked up about the event. She was not remorseful, because remorse requires empathy, which is often not developed at that age. It does not mean that she is proud.
She is doing it because it is exciting and gets a reaction, not because she likes the idea of another person experiencing pain. She has no capacity to grasp that the other person is experincing pain (even if she is told so, and begins to use the vocabulary, she is only using that vocabulary to describe the reaction that is happening, she does not get it).
So, it must be stopped by other means. It can't continue. I just don't like to see it cast as an issue of intentional cruelty.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 12:00:46 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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We are a small church. My husband is the pastor, coming up on his first year anniversary in august. We do not have a children's minister, a number board for children being called, etc. It's country.  The incident happened after a dinner this past sunday, all the children, ages from 2-12 were playing together. I was there, my husband was there, the mother and father of the other girl were there. The children do play well together and the older ones will help with the younger ones. I do not feel I have to be constantly hovering over my daughter. We are all in the same room, the fellowship hall and from any vantage point you can see the children. They are not allowed outside or downstairs or in the storage rooms, if they do this they promptly get reprimanded. I was sitting chatting with another lady and this other girls mom and dad were cleaning up, her brothers usually keep her in line. I did not see what precipitated this event. Nadia and her are both strong willed children and Nadia has pushed/hit, on occasion, this girl. I do not know if that's what happened this time, I did not see. Usually the older kids are good at telling what happened beforehand so as to understand exactly what happened. The older girls seemed just as surprised and shocked as Nadia. What surprises me is that Nadia did not cry. I would think she would've but she just kinda stood there, flabbergasted.
I struggle with knowing how to bring it up. The ladies I was talking to saw it as well and one made a comment on her biting, as if she's seen it before in this girl. I don't feel right reprimanding this girl, although I told her what she did was wrong. I was just so 'mother bearish' when I saw this happening.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 2:03:33 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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If the parents were handy, I think I would say something like, 'Could you please take care of disciplining your daughter, since I need to tend to mine and make sure she didn't break the skin or anything.' Or, I may say that until her behavioral problems are cleared up, her parents need to be within arm's reach at all times. It really is THEIR job to take care of this.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 4:02:23 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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Yeah, I agree. I think I will keep an extra eye on the two of them playing from now on. I thought of bringing both girls and having the other child tell her mother what she did. I know the mother would just feel awful (not my intention) but still I know it would be dealt with.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 5:00:58 PM
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daisies4u
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Well, since your daughter has done the same to her in the past, my advice is be different than if these types of things never happened. I am very non-confrontational, so to go to another parent and complain about their child would not be something that I would do.
But, (and I know I will get blasted by other parents when I say this), I would indirectly say something to the other mom. For example, the next time our kids were getting ready to play together, I would say - to the girls - "now, we are going to play nice today, ok? No hitting or biting. I am gonna be watching you." Then say to the other mother, "did you hear about the little incidents that we have been having lately?"
That should get the conversation rolling and hopefully open up dialogue with her. As well as feel her out for how she wants to handle it.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 6:05:17 PM
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pbaribeault
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I wouldn't speak to the children that way, daises, but I might try the soft approach, just starting with, "I don't know if you know, but ... totally normal for her age ... do you have any plans? ... can I help in any way?"
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 6:26:56 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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For the record, my dd hasn't bit her. Pushing, yes, I've seen that. Hitting, she's told us about that. But biting, no.
Now, knowing my daughter, I think I will talk to her before church and playing with this girl. She does very well if we inform her to the behavior we want her to have.
I was just remembering the time I watched both her and my daughter, it was just me. This girl does have a tendency to just haul off and whack and bite, as a retaliatory thing. Like you took my toy. Even if my daughter is pushing/hitting her, I do not think it is right for this other girl to bite my girl for a hit/push. When I saw this, I immediately separated the two, put both of them in time out and talked to the other girl. I told her we do not bite. I put Nadia in a time out to calm down and for taking the toy.
Come to think of it, I think they just get excited and caught up in the moment and don't think. Because after I separated them for a time, they were fine. It's like they needed to get away from the intensity of the play. Do you know what I mean?
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/1/2008 9:37:10 PM
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pbaribeault
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One of those 'plans' might be to separate the girls before the intensity of play overwhelms them.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/2/2008 8:48:50 AM
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HomeSpunLady
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True, I'll try to watch for that next time.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/2/2008 9:18:52 AM
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daisies4u
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quote:
Even if my daughter is pushing/hitting her, I do not think it is right for this other girl to bite my girl for a hit/push.
I don't think that a 2 year old has the thought process cabable of separating hitting from biting. All she knew was that your daughter hit her and that was her way of retaliating.
And, I am sorry, but if your daughter hit mine, and then mine bit yours, I would see that as your daughter being the instigator. It wouldn't excuse my daughter's behavior, don't get me wrong. It sounds like these girls need some serious guidelines about playing together.
Can you tell you daughter to immediately come to you if this child hits or bites her again? Then do not allow her to play with this child for the remainder of the time together. The mom will get the hint.
quote:
I wouldn't speak to the children that way
Why not? Is it because it is someone else's child? The only way to fix this is to try and stop it before it reaches that point. If they know that you are watching them, they will probably be on better behaviour. Although, 2 is really young, I am still not sure that some of this just not knowing better.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/2/2008 9:36:51 AM
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HenriettasCat
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You mentioned in the OP that this child has older brothers who will rough house. So, this child sees pushing, hitting etc as being part of play. She is not necessarily being mean - it is what she knows. I'm not sure there is much you can do without talking to the mother.
My nearly three year old went through a similar phase about 18 months ago. He also enjoyed roughhousing with dh and his older brother. Sometimes they would kid each other and say "I'm going to bite you" or "I'm going to eat you up", they would play at pushing each other over (youngest ds thought this was great). Dh and I soon realised that ds didn't know the difference between reality and pretend - so those kind of expressions were banned in our house for that time. Maybe it is the same with your friend's family. She may have to ask the older boys to be mindful of the younger one whilst he is in this stage of learning and watch how they play.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/2/2008 3:21:21 PM
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pbaribeault
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quote:
I wouldn't speak to the children that way
quote:
Why not? Is it because it is someone else's child?
Yes, exactly. Maybe it's my temperament or maybe it's my Canadian culture, but I don't make any effort to manage the behaviour of other people's children. I consider it insulting, and intrusive.
If I could not speak to the mother, and I could not trust the other child, I would not allow my child to play with that child. I would consider it way out of bounds to step in and try and modify the behaviour of someone else's child. (Unless of course I was actually supervising them in some capacity.) If I was going to be watching, I'd tell my child I was watching out for them, then remove my child if necessary. That would "fix it" (the situation) without stepping into the zone of someone else's authority.
I'd loose a lot of friends fast if I gave direction (as was suggested) to children that did not belong to me in an ordinary play situation.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/2/2008 7:42:17 PM
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zoebob
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What if the child was hitting other kids whose parents weren't around. You'd just let the child go on doing that to others? Or by removing hte good kids you are basically telling them that the kid who's being bad is allowed to do what they want when they want and the good kids have to find somewhere else to go.
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/2/2008 8:01:02 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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I should say that in our church one adult can reprimand another adult's child. I don't know if it's just the mentality of this area, but it's just how it's done. Now it's not as severe as with their own child, but if they are caught in the act, they are told about it by whoever is there. If the parent of the offending child is there, the adult always gives way to the parent. I actually prefer this as I can't always be following my child around forever. She needs to learn that there are other forms of authority to respect, not just mama and papa. Otherwise she may think she only needs to listen to us, and no one else. (Don't see that dangerous thing happening anytime soon.)
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Kathryn
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RE: Biting, hitting in a 2 year old - 7/3/2008 4:40:54 AM
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HenriettasCat
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kathryn
I remember bringing my son from school a few months ago and he was behind me, splashing in some puddles (really kicking them up). I was otherwise occupied and not really paying too much attention. Well another child got splashed and the mother (whom I did not know at all) IMO totally overreacted. She yelled at my son - at which point I turned around. He stopped splashing and wasn't too upset - more bewildered. Whilst I was annoyed with the other mum I let it go - It didn't harm him and I thought maybe hearing it from someone else would encourage him to look next time.
I'm sure that you would handle any situation with far more grace than that particular mum, and if it is within the culture of your church for parents to correct one another's children perhaps the child needs a 'time out' whenever she exhibits those behaviours.
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