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Could God end a marraiage? - 9/28/2009 10:03:51 AM
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Hope4Restoration
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Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 9/28/2009 12:22:17 PM
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LCannon
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No. God never 'ends a marriage' but circumstances can be it personal or relational or bad choices on either part.
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'I will never leave you nor forsake you.' (Joshua 1:5)
''Let the very worst thing come to pass[and]even there,
especially there; His hand will hold.' -Elisabeth Elliot-
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 9/28/2009 3:05:11 PM
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drmark
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quote:
God never 'ends a marriage' That's not how I read 1 Sam 25:38!
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 9/28/2009 4:17:28 PM
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justpassinby
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hope4Restoration
Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
I suppose so, but if He ends it, a death will definitely be involved. That was the case in the cited 1 Samuel 25:38.
God divorced Israel. In the Law, the husband could not take the adulterous wife back again--- only a death could free up the other as Christ stated. That was not written for the sake of solely morality or making people feel bad, but to point to a time when God would have to die for his wife. A divorced wife loses her name, she changes her name. She is disassociated with her former self. That's what happened to Israel, as these (lost) tribes never returned to the land of Israel and became as Gentiles, until the husband, Christ, died so that the broken covenant could be made in the new husband, and known by a new name as Isaiah prophesied (we now call these physical seed of Abraham "Christians" which also includes Gentiles as well). The Jews of the house of Judah on the other hand were not divorced and these physical children of Abraham live in the Law yet.
In even the "simplest" things and Law in the bible, God has an elaborate master plan intricately interwoven with other events to frame out a marvelous picture of his purpose and prophecy.
If you look at divorce from that light, I guess it makes things seem a little lest severe from a personal standpoint, but whatever you're personal situation, I'll keep you in prayers and hope things iron out for you.
_____________________________
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 9/28/2009 4:37:20 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: justpassinby
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hope4Restoration
Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
I suppose so, but if He ends it, a death will definitely be involved. That was the case in the cited 1 Samuel 25:38.
God divorced Israel. In the Law, the husband could not take the adulterous wife back again--- only a death could free up the other as Christ stated. That was not written for the sake of solely morality or making people feel bad, but to point to a time when God would have to die for his wife. A divorced wife loses her name, she changes her name. She is disassociated with her former self. That's what happened to Israel, as these (lost) tribes never returned to the land of Israel and became as Gentiles, until the husband, Christ, died so that the broken covenant could be made in the new husband, and known by a new name as Isaiah prophesied (we now call these physical seed of Abraham "Christians" which also includes Gentiles as well). The Jews of the house of Judah on the other hand were not divorced and these physical children of Abraham live in the Law yet.
In even the "simplest" things and Law in the bible, God has an elaborate master plan intricately interwoven with other events to frame out a marvelous picture of his purpose and prophecy.
If you look at divorce from that light, I guess it makes things seem a little lest severe from a personal standpoint, but whatever you're personal situation, I'll keep you in prayers and hope things iron out for you.
HaTorah does not require divorce in the case of adultry. It permits it after a proper examination of the facts. This is the dilemma Yoseph faced before he was visited by a Messenger of Adonai. What Yoseph had planned on doing with Mary is permitted. Hosea is also a good example of this.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 9/28/2009 6:06:17 PM
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WilliamtheConqueror
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hope4Restoration
Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
It is in Ezra and/or Nehemiah (but I believe Ezra) that he made the Jews put away their foreign wives and this was to purify the lineage.
It was a wicked thing to marry a foreign idolator. This is looked at as good in that book. Also under the New Covenant there is the case of divorcing, remarrying, and then living in continual adultery. The Protestant Reformed Church makes those couples divorce before they can join a congregation as the church will not allow adulterers in the fellowship.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/3/2009 11:47:01 AM
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benelchi
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WilliamtheConqueror
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hope4Restoration
Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
It is in Ezra and/or Nehemiah (but I believe Ezra) that he made the Jews put away their foreign wives and this was to purify the lineage.
It was a wicked thing to marry a foreign idolator. This is looked at as good in that book. Also under the New Covenant there is the case of divorcing, remarrying, and then living in continual adultery. The Protestant Reformed Church makes those couples divorce before they can join a congregation as the church will not allow adulterers in the fellowship.
It is in Ezra, but the idea that God commanded men to "put away their foreign wives" in this passage is in correct. First, it was the Jewish men who decided to do this in devotion to God, and not something God commanded. More importantly though, there is no good reason to believe these were the "wives" of these Jewish men, and this misconception comes from a poor translation of the Hebrew text. First, in Hebrew (and Greek) there is no specific word for wife; in Hebrew a wife is usually denoted by the word "ishah/woman" with the possessive pronoun i.e. "his wife" and in this passage there is no possessive pronoun. Second, the verbs normally used to denote marriage i.e. 'ba'al', 'nasah', etc.. are not used in this passage, but instead the verb 'yashav' i.e. 'to sit' or 'to dwell'. Every indication in this passage is that these were not wives to whom these men had committed themselves to in marriage, but women whom they simply chose to live with outside of a marriage covenant, much akin to men and women "living together" today.
quote:
The Protestant Reformed Church makes those couples divorce before they can join a congregation as the church will not allow adulterers in the fellowship.
This passage from Ezra is one of the passages that the Protestant Reformed Church twists to try and justify a doctrine of requiring those in second marriages to divorce and return to their "first spouse" when passages like Duet. 24:1-4 clearly prohibit it.
< Message edited by benelchi -- 10/3/2009 12:02:53 PM >
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/7/2009 7:01:22 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
It is in Ezra, but the idea that God commanded men to "put away their foreign wives" in this passage is in correct. First, it was the Jewish men who decided to do this in devotion to God, and not something God commanded. More importantly though, there is no good reason to believe these were the "wives" of these Jewish men, and this misconception comes from a poor translation of the Hebrew text. First, in Hebrew (and Greek) there is no specific word for wife; in Hebrew a wife is usually denoted by the word "ishah/woman" with the possessive pronoun i.e. "his wife" and in this passage there is no possessive pronoun. Second, the verbs normally used to denote marriage i.e. 'ba'al', 'nasah', etc.. are not used in this passage, but instead the verb 'yashav' i.e. 'to sit' or 'to dwell'. Every indication in this passage is that these were not wives to whom these men had committed themselves to in marriage, but women whom they simply chose to live with outside of a marriage covenant, much akin to men and women "living together" today.
Could this be a rough equivalent to "common law" today? While I respect civil marriages by Christians outside the church or other marriage "rites" (i.e. non-covenantal religious ceremonies if there is any such thing), I see the ideal for marriage as being between two people making a covenant before God and doing it intentionally as conscientiously witnessed by God. If there is no covenant, it would mean that there really is no marriage.
Case in point. I work with a young man who occasionally refers to his relationship with his girlfriend as "common law" but never directly refers to her as his wife. He may do so indirectly, I cannot remember. In fact, he has said repeatedly that he will never "marry" (as in a legally binding relationship) again. He is not a Christian and doesn't care what God thinks, obviously.
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Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/7/2009 3:56:51 PM
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WilliamtheConqueror
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manhattan42
quote:
The Protestant Reformed Church makes those couples divorce before they can join a congregation as the church will not allow adulterers in the fellowship.
Seriously?
Even when there are young children that are the product of that 'adulterous' relationship?
Sounds like the Protestant Reformed Church is trying to put out a fire by dousing it with gasoline. 
I'm sure they say it teaches the children about the permanence of marriage. However the child's self esteem might be initially diminished be being labeled a b*stard! I would have the child steeped in Biblical lore about Rahab, Jepthah and others who were from the other side of the tracks, and that God uses these people for His glory. After all I am descended from William the B*stard and look at what he accomplished! I believe those children would have a better shot at a successful first marriage than if they grew up with their parents living together.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/9/2009 1:27:41 AM
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walterquez
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God does not end marriages, people do.
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For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/9/2009 9:46:21 AM
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walterquez
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On the contrary, I think God in His great mercy will allow someone to live longer than expected to give them a chance to repent. If think if someone dies because of their sins, they died because they did it to themselves, not because God had them die sooner than expected.
Yes, it is wrong to pray to God to take the life of a spouse, or anyone else for that matter; we should pray to preserve it, not take it.
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/9/2009 10:50:50 AM
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drmark
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quote:
quote:
quote:
God does not end marriages, people do.
I suppose He could have someone die sooner than expected due to their sin.
If think if someone dies because of their sins, they died because they did it to themselves, not because God had them die sooner than expected. As I posted above, that's certainly not how I read 1 Sam 25:38!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/9/2009 12:39:36 PM
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stampinlady
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From: Northern IL
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quote:
Yes, it is wrong to pray to God to take the life of a spouse, or anyone else for that matter; we should pray to preserve it, not take it.
But David prayed for his enemies to be destroyed?
Paul warns us that some people have died because they didn't take communion seriously. I think God would strike someone dead if He felt it was necessary.
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/10/2009 4:18:22 PM
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northstar
Posts: 189
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manhattan42
quote:
ORIGINAL: WilliamtheConqueror
quote:
ORIGINAL: manhattan42
quote:
The Protestant Reformed Church makes those couples divorce before they can join a congregation as the church will not allow adulterers in the fellowship.
Seriously?
Even when there are young children that are the product of that 'adulterous' relationship?
Sounds like the Protestant Reformed Church is trying to put out a fire by dousing it with gasoline.
I'm sure they say it teaches the children about the permanence of marriage. However the child's self esteem might be initially diminished be being labeled a b*stard! I would have the child steeped in Biblical lore about Rahab, Jepthah and others who were from the other side of the tracks, and that God uses these people for His glory. After all I am descended from William the B*stard and look at what he accomplished! I believe those children would have a better shot at a successful first marriage than if they grew up with their parents living together.
This is just too bizarre to even contemplate!
Children of divorce are far more likley to:
-divorce
-drop out of school
-grow up in poverty
-have lower levels of education
-have lower income levels
-abuse drugs
-have more health problems
-run away from home
-commit suicide
-etc...
This absurd position of the Protestant Reformed Church regarding divorce is only surpassed by your far worse assessment that punishing the child by taking away one or both of his parents is somehow how good for the child!
No wonder the Reformed Protestant Church only has 6000 members worldwide.
Its a CULT!
http://www.prca.org/prc.html
I could be wrong here, but I think WilliamtheConqueror's point was that the children of the remarriage will get to see the permanence of the first marriage, that it would show them that God takes the first marriage seriously and as a lifelong covenant, which can't end until one of the original spouses dies.
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/16/2009 12:12:03 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: walterquez
On the contrary, I think God in His great mercy will allow someone to live longer than expected to give them a chance to repent. If think if someone dies because of their sins, they died because they did it to themselves, not because God had them die sooner than expected. Tell that to Annanias and Saphira in Acts 5.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/16/2009 2:09:56 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hope4Restoration
Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
If a marriage ends it is within the scope of God's Will. That being said it does not necessarily mean that God directly caused it. It could mean that he allowed it to happen.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/16/2009 4:15:41 PM
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dnp200450
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God could easily kill one or both parties. So the answer is yes.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/16/2009 5:09:28 PM
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doinkdom
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God will do whatever to bring glory to Himself.
How do we know that God wouldn't destroy a marrage in order to bring someone to salvation - isn't that the most important? God hates divorce...yes, but how do we know that a destroyed marriage may bring forth repentence that leads to salvation.
I'm not saying that's the norm or that God has actually done it. But our hearts can be so hard and crusty sometimes, it takes total brokeness to bring us to repentence.
Of course, I'm talking about "unbelievers" here...husband and/or wife.
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/16/2009 8:05:46 PM
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Judson50
Posts: 68
Joined: 8/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hope4Restoration
Could God end a marrage because one person is inadequate or does not help andother fulfill their calling? How and when does God end a marrage? I thought the covenant of marriage is a life long commitment. I have not commited adultry or fornication. I have had problems but who hasn't?
No. God is never separated from His word.
I liken it to this, if God sent Jesus to earth and the people of earth argued with Jesus - and Jesus decided to quit "people"; rather than endure it. He never would have gone to the cross, atoned for sin and appeased God's wrath. Then you wouldn't be on this website forum asking this question.
Jesus and "His Church" (i.e. Christians) don't always get along. We fight, we argue and we get out line. However, that is what makes Jesus so awesome. He NEVER leaves us.
If you decide to leave your spouse - that is your fault. God will NEVER make you break a covenant relationship that represents Jesus' relationship with His Church. Your marriage is more than just you and your spouse, it is a testimony as to how Jesus loves us.
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RE: Could God end a marraiage? - 10/16/2009 8:34:13 PM
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dnp200450
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In extreme cases I suppose God could kill a person whom was working against him, even if they were married. Think of a Hitler type anti-Christ person.
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