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Cyborgs - 10/22/2009 10:53:51 AM
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RJR_fan
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A staple theme in science fiction is the cybernetic organism, the "cyborg." This is an originally human person whose natural abilities have been enhanced, replaced, or both, by engineered components.
The discipleship process can be misused to create "ministry cyborgs," people who are programmed and trained to respond in predictable ways to specified situations. Step into the role defined for you, and you have a sense of purpose, connection, and even (dare I say?) of anointing. In that role, you serve others for the glory of God, see lives transformed, and have the excitement of performing far in excess of your personal limits.
A New Wine article published in 1974 discussed the problem of residential Christian communities. They tended to attract the weaker, more dependent kinds of personalities (people looking for a charismatic father figure?) and generate a kind of hot-house spiritual growth. Certain sides of life -- like mastery of Bible knowledge, ability to provide certain kinds of spiritual direction -- become hypertrophied. Normal human maturity gets stunted.
In the OT order, a slave might choose to renounce freedom, and become part of the household of a truly worthy master. This isn't forbidden, but is viewed as less desirable than the liberty God redeemed Israel to enjoy.
The Catholics have a convenient way of dealing with folks who wanted to be part of a grand, noble, endeavor, while also reluctant to face the exigencies of daily life -- the convent / monastery. Yes, you can become a "kept Christian," a "super-Christian," BUT -- the price is spelled out up front: the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.
So much for the introduction. I'd like to invite you guys (and gals) to share your "cyborg" stories. If they are like mine, they are deeply painful.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/23/2009 5:01:00 AM
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RJR_fan
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For example: (and let's pick on a historical figure, since that's less stressful than confessing one's own faults!) Billy Sunday "got cyborged" near the beginning of his ministry. A coalition of the "robber baron" capitalists purchased his services. Bankrolled his ministry. Provided organizational skills, set up the schedule, etc.
And things started going profoundly wrong. He barked on cue, supporting America's entry into Wilson's messianic adventure, an inexcusable waste of American lives and treasure that greatly enriched a handful of well-connected folks on the bodies and minds and limbs of enslaved fellow citizens. Sunday bragged of his ignorance, embedding in popular culture the picture of the brainless know-nothing as the stereotypical fundamentalist. The one personal hobby-horse he did pursue, a crusade to force his fellow Americans to be holier than Jesus, discredited Christian participation in the political order for nearly a century, spawned wide-spread contempt for the law, and nurtured the growth of large-scale criminal gangs.
To keep up his end of the deal, to travel freely and widely, Sunday sold out his family. Placed his kids with hired keepers -- and lost all four.
Friends, scraping along by the grace of God from one donation to the next isn't the worst thing that can happen to you!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/23/2009 7:21:24 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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I'm trying to understand you point to this. Really, I just don't get it. You give example of people who may or may not have made mistakes in their walk.
As if their zealousness for Christ is the crux of the problem. Ministers can lose their children. Just as a husband can lose their wife and vis a ves. People make their own choices. a parent is only responsible for raising the child in the way that he should go, not for the final outcome.
Parents can teach the whole bible to their kids..but unless that child realizes that they indeed are a sinner and are guilty before God, repents and chooses Christ, it doesn't matter. We will all answer for our choices in this life and blaming Mom and Dad fro not following Christ, just won't fly before Christ.
The disciples were zealous for Jesus. Yes, the gave up everything to follow Him and Jesus told them their reward would be eternal.
The problem with Christians, is that we don't want to give up anything. Our comfort is more important than the souls that are lost.
If somebody has zeal and enthusiasm, they are shot down, criticized, made fun of, and insulted.
Just as the name cyborg does. Do I think people raise up imitations of each other and call it right? You bet I do, however, when the Word tells me that all things hidden will be revealed....i trust that completely. Because the Word also tells me that those who are sown on the rocky or thorny soil, they will fall away in times of distress. Therefore, I rest assured that the wheat will be separated from the chaff.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/23/2009 12:21:44 PM
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bolt.
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I'm confused too, RJ.
You say 'Billy Sunday "got cyborged" near the beginning of his ministry.' Please be more clear about the image you are using... Who "cyborged" him? (The capitalists?) and how? What were the presumed motives of the cyborg-ers, and for what reason did Billy accept such things? In what way would a pure ministry have looked, felt and turned out different from a "cyborg" ministry? How can we distinguish a "cyborg" from anybody else? How does "cyborging" differ from ministry training in general?
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/23/2009 1:18:36 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
You say 'Billy Sunday "got cyborged" near the beginning of his ministry.' Please be more clear about the image you are using... Who "cyborged" him? (The capitalists?) and how? What were the presumed motives of the cyborg-ers, and for what reason did Billy accept such things? In what way would a pure ministry have looked, felt and turned out different from a "cyborg" ministry? How can we distinguish a "cyborg" from anybody else? How does "cyborging" differ from ministry training in general?
Ah. Discussion underway!
The venture capitalists who underwrote Billy Sunday's ministry were, I heard, concerned about the "wobblies," the seductive attraction of marxist socialism, labor unrest. They needed a folksy "man of the people" to speak up for "traditional values," and innoculate the American labor force.
Billy Sunday apparently saw an opportunity to take his show on the road a lot sooner than would normally have been the case. He'd already been preaching and evangelizing on a small scale for some time -- and here was his "miraculous" opportunity to grab the brass ring and go for the big time, jump onto a national stage.
A pure ministry? Good question. He might have kept his family. We might have been spared "Prohibition." Thomas W. Wilson would have had less "covering" for his messianic adventures in Europe.
How can we distinguish? I can cite one example from my own experience -- before my conversion, several Christian students had spent months with me, letting me explain the new-age madness I found so fascinating, and pointing me to Jesus. Then, they heard that Carl MacIntire was bringing his dog and pony show to town, one of the most influential evangelists in the country. To humor them, I went along -- and watched tears streaming down their faces as MacIntire preached his "gospel" of anti-communism. The crowd went wild -- an emotional hurricane -- that even this unbelieving punk knew was toxic. The power of a skilled demagogue is amazing. Turns out, I discovered later from a smaller-scale evangelist who'd received the same offer, that MacIntire had been coopted by a right-wing conservative organization. His message gradually changed, and I failed to hear Christ in it, way back when.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/23/2009 1:26:29 PM
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bolt.
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So, "cyborging" is when a person gets caught up in glitz and ends up shifting the message to accommodate the interests of those who are doing the underwriting?
Not a good thing, but not really all that common.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/23/2009 1:46:53 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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I still don't get what you are saying RJR. You brought up this term in the radical christians thread and I just don't see how you are trying to make them fit together. Can you explain, please?
Even, Bolt's explanation doesn't make it understandable to me. Like she said, it's unfortunate, but not that uncommon.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/24/2009 1:40:56 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Can you explain, please?
I'll do what I can!
The culture of my early born-again days assumed that all the really dedicated Christians, the ones who most closely walked with Jesus, were in "full-time ministry." This notion was energized by unrealistic apocalyptic expectations. I found my opportunity to do "full-time Christian service" in the context of a street mission that began well, but ended badly. My "ministry" was a subset of the founder's, an implementation of his vision. All procedures clearly laid out. Initiative not wanted, here. Besides, who has the time, when the needs are so great, and the time is so short? Well, anyhow, by the time I got around to courting an attractive young lady, there wasn't enough of me left over to sustain a real relationship! Ouch! Here I was "serving God full-time," as a "really" consecrated Christian -- and my own life experienced failure in the most painful way I could imagine!
Turned out to be God's mercy, as I traded in an exoskeleton for a backbone, and found the great and amazing love of my life in an unexpected place. But it was sheer H E double-toothpicks for several years! Cognitive dissonance -- the script of my life diverged from the path laid out in all those testimony books I'd been reading!
Strait is the gate and narrow is the way ... every believer's life and ministry are unique. One size does not fit all -- although a garbage bag can serve as an emergancy raincoat!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/24/2009 6:28:15 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
Strait is the gate and narrow is the way ... every believer's life and ministry are unique. One size does not fit all -- although a garbage bag can serve as an emergancy raincoat!
I agree wholeheartedly! With the number of "Christian" books in the market today, bible studies are churning out complacent Christians and antagonizing those that do not fit into a "mold". A bible study is.....to study the Word, not accept some person's opinion and interpretation as if it were the gospel.
Christians will not all look the same, act the same or even think the same.
Is this what you are wanting to discuss?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/24/2009 10:06:27 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 1168
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Christians will not all look the same, act the same or even think the same. Is this what you are wanting to discuss?
Well, I am trying to confess my own faults to a kindly audience, and invite others to share their experiences with this kind of quandry.
In Matt. 10 and Luke 9 and 10, we see our Lord's version of The Four Spiritual Laws. The pattern is specified in every detail -- where to go, who to talk to, what to take, what to say, what to do. Bill Bright sought to find "replicable concepts" that could work on their own for a wide variety of people. Discipleship is also The Master Plan of Evangelism -- the application of hard-core, oversimplified, intense direction to immature believers needing a kick-start.
SO -- how do we reap the benefits of the discipleship process, while avoiding the hazards? Since we're dealing with human lives, in all their messy variety, this topic could go on for hundreds of posts!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Cyborgs - 10/24/2009 10:28:01 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
SO -- how do we reap the benefits of the discipleship process, while avoiding the hazards? Since we're dealing with human lives, in all their messy variety, this topic could go on for hundreds of posts!
We follow the bible's direction. Us humans, being hard-headed will learn through trial and error. We can apply the biblical principals, but those will be based on our understanding. God teaches very valuable lessons to us, often through our own painful mistakes.
The benefits will come from the process by having a humble, teachable spirit! The ones discipling have surely , made their fair share of mistakes along the way! Listening, rather than letting pride get in our way, would really be helpful!
Ultimately, following the Leader, studying Him, should point our behavior, decisions, ect, towards the model He has already given us. Taking the focus off Him and putting it on someone's opinion of how to do, whatever it is, will more than likely result in folly.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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