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Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 3:52:54 PM
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Aisha
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I hear two sides to this everytime I hear the discussion about finances before and after marriage. I know some people would marry their spouse as is even if they didnt have a job or had some debt. Im not sure if its because that person who is willing is crazy or not. I am just curious to see what you all think. Imagine how you felt about your spouse before marriage. Would you wait years to marry them until they came out of debt?
I was wondering if anyone here married their spouse who had debt? Did you go ahead and marry them because you knew they were a responsible person? How much debt is too much walking into a marriage?
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 4:11:44 PM
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catlady11
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I'm getting married in less than 3 weeks and I have lots of debt because I was very foolish with my finances. Hubby to be doesn't seem to mind but he does encourage me to be more responsible with my finances. Once I sell my apartment I will be able to get out of debt but even if that wasn't the case, he would still marry me and then WE would get out of debt (his words). On the other hand, I don't think I could go into a marriage where my husband had a lot of debt even if he was now responsible with money. I think many woman need a sense of security and I would not feel very secure marrying a man with lots of debt. I feel very hypocritcal feeling this way but that's how I feel about it.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 4:34:07 PM
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Zhi
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My husband had a lot of school debt when I married him.
It wasn't a big deal *shrug*
Granted with school debt it's pretty obvious where it came from, when it will end, and that it was a responsible type of debt to take on.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 7:28:46 PM
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ChoirDJ
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I think it all depends on the circumstances and where that debt came from. If it's debt from a student loan, car payment, mortgage and even moderate credit card debt that's one thing. If it's a lot of credit card debt due to greed and financial mismanagement, I would think twice about marrying such a person until they have at least dealt with some of that debt. Having been married, I can attest to the fact that the finances are at the top of the list as far as what causes conflict in marriage because irresponsible spending habits will most definitely undermine a healthy marriage.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 8:52:46 PM
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lexie
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My husband brought in a rather large student loan. I didn't bring in any debt. When we married we were both fresh out of grad school and only he had a part time job.
The debt was never a stumbling block for us. I knew about it and I was willing to take it on as my debt too. We factor his student loan payments into our budget with everything else.
Dh doesn't have spending problems, but even if he did, it's been agreed that I take care of the family finances, so I don't have to worry about him going overboard.
We also decided to each have our own account in which we put extra things like birthday moneys, GST payments, overtime pay from Dh, and we can spend however we like. That curbs mismanagement of our joint account.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 8:53:19 PM
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karlie
Posts: 16620
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quote:
Imagine how you felt about your spouse before marriage. Would you wait years to marry them until they came out of debt?
It would depend on how the debt was incurred and what their current attitude is concerning debt and spending. If they racked up frivolous bills with no thought, and saw nothing wrong with it and planned to continue that lifestyle, I would have wanted to see some changes before I married him.
If the bills were from student loans, medical bills, or even past foolishness which he had put behind him and he was working on getting out of debt, then I'd not hesitate. There is nothing wrong with sharing burdens and growing in those things together.
There are way worse issues and baggage to bring into marriage than debt.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 9:05:07 PM
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Ps103
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I am not sure the issue is so much "does the other person have debt" as it is "are you both on the same page about finances and debt?"
I would not marry someone whose idea of how to spend money differed from mine--it would just meant too much heartache for both of us down the line.
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 7/22/2008 9:23:23 PM >
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/22/2008 10:12:24 PM
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LaVidaBonita
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My future hubby and I are on the same page financially which I think is incredibly important. We have been blessed to not have any student loans and the only real debt that we have between us is my mortgage. But knowing how responsible he is with money, if he did have some debt from student loans, or medical bills, etc. I abosolutely would have still married him.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 12:10:42 AM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I am not sure the issue is so much "does the other person have debt" as it is "are you both on the same page about finances and debt?"
I would not marry someone whose idea of how to spend money differed from mine--it would just meant too much heartache for both of us down the line.
Oh, I so agree with this. My husband and I are very blessed in that we both agree on how to handle the finances. I could not have married a man who was financially irresponsible, because I would have had a very difficult time respecting him. Respect is essential!
In answer to the OP, I had student loans when we married, but hubby knew how responsible I was, that I had put myself through college and had already paid off one loan by the time I graduated. So the loan wasn't a warning sign to him--instead it was a sign of my determination to receive an education.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 12:25:28 AM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I am not sure the issue is so much "does the other person have debt" as it is "are you both on the same page about finances and debt?"
I would not marry someone whose idea of how to spend money differed from mine--it would just meant too much heartache for both of us down the line.
I can't add a single bit of additional wisdom to this. My wife and I both had substantial debt when we got married. Mine was an immense school debt. My wife's was just the result of some very unreliable automobiles, unfortunate coincidences, and a teacher's salary. Both of us though had a similar outlook on spending/saving patterns.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 9:53:21 AM
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Aisha
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Thank you all for the replies.
I am in this situation. My boyfriend and I are living together and have been talking about marriage. We know we want to marry each other. We arent officially engaged but we are in pre-marital counseling. We both know we are going to be faced with separating from one another. We have been together for almost 4yrs and if I have to move I will be relocating to another state. I would like to elope after the counseling but my boyfriend feels that he should clear his debt first. He was helping me pay my rent at my apartment before I moved into his house. So while he was helping me he would be behind on his cable bill and other small bills. So now he is in debt about 30,000. He has bought 3 cars and got his credit card bills together. He has good credit. I would be going to school for the first 3 months of our marriage to be a certified pre-school teacher. The classes are only $300 that I will pay for. I have no debt but I do have two small children. While I am in school I will not be needing a daycare provider. Family would keep the kids for two nights out of the week while I am in school. We have been living together since April while he had the debt that I didnt know about. He says that he would marry me sooner but I guess he thinks its impossible to clear the debt. I am a more frugal person. I dont like debt but I love him enough to help him out once I start working. I wouldnt want to lose the man I love to debt that we can eventually clear. He says he is willing to get married so I wouldnt have to relocate to NC. The cost of living in MD is way too high for me to afford with two kids without a degree. I have been researching things for us to look at financially.
With all that said, would we be frowned upon for getting married at the courthouse sooner?
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 10:25:52 AM
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laura...
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quote:
With all that said, would we be frowned upon for getting married at the courthouse sooner?
That would be better than adding wedding debt to the existing debt. However, it really doesn't take that long to plan a very small wedding with your pastor officiating and expenses can be very minimal if family and good friends help provide food.
The debt itself isn't as big an issue as good credit. A plan can be put in place to pay off the debt as quickly as possible. Good credit is much harder to come by if lost. So, in my opinion, go ahead with getting married, set a plan to pay off the debt, keep his credit good.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 11:07:58 AM
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jaimestarcross
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Have you and him worked out all the concerns about his family?
I recall in another post you mentioned having problems with his family not
accepting you? And your bf is lying to his mom about you working?
(If there are financial issues as well --- that's just too many red flags... I wouldn't let the relationship go any further.)
*Your children need good role models - and to be taught about the Lord and honoring Him - living together defeats the purpose and makes your faith walk weak. I recall you mentioning you had been having sex but that has stopped... you still need to separate because the relationship started off wrong. The Bible tells us to flee from temptation - it harder to flee when you're sharing the same home and he's supporting you and the children and being a father to them... you get caught in the "web" of living together - and your heart gets divided from the Lord.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 11:20:59 AM
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creationtalk
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Both my xh and I had debt when we married. I had student loans, mortgage, and inherited debt. He had consumer debt, mortgage, home-equity, and car loan. He told me that the consumer debt was left over from a time when he was seriously injured in an accident and could not work for 2 years. At the time I did not consider the debt an issue...I presumed we would work together to pay it off. Then I discovered that he had refinanced his house every 3-4 years...paid off all debt w/refinance, ran up debt (2-300/mo average over spending). I was not happy. Of course, the issue here was NOT debt...it was over-spending. If I were ever to consider remarrying, I would want an audit of his finances and would be prepared to have one of mine for him. I would be more likely to marry someone with a million dollars in debt who has a definite plan to get out of debt, is working to pay it off, and is meeting all his bills and living within his means than someone who had no current debt but consistently over-spent his income.
Edit: for someone planning on getting married, I suggest sitting down together and working out a complete budget including a debt reduction plan. You might also consider taking one of the Crown Small Group studies as part of your premarital counseling
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 11:31:53 AM
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buckifn
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I think bringing a lot of debt into the marriage from the word go puts you on the negative side from day one of the marriage.
It would be much better to work out a repayment plan before the marriage and extend the engagement time to allow the person time to make extra payments on the debt.
We paid off student loans etc before our marriage and it has worked out a lot better not having that excess baggage.
I realize that paying things off completely may not be feasible for everyone, but they can at least lock in a monthly payment plan on things such as student loans, etc. If need be, I would recommend they maintain 1 account specifically for covering such payments..have them automatically withdrawn to ensure it's followed through.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/23/2008 3:52:32 PM
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Aisha
Posts: 42
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaimestarcross
Have you and him worked out all the concerns about his family?
I recall in another post you mentioned having problems with his family not
accepting you? And your bf is lying to his mom about you working?
(If there are financial issues as well --- that's just too many red flags... I wouldn't let the relationship go any further.)
*Your children need good role models - and to be taught about the Lord and honoring Him - living together defeats the purpose and makes your faith walk weak. I recall you mentioning you had been having sex but that has stopped... you still need to separate because the relationship started off wrong. The Bible tells us to flee from temptation - it harder to flee when you're sharing the same home and he's supporting you and the children and being a father to them... you get caught in the "web" of living together - and your heart gets divided from the Lord.
Since my last post about the family...we have discussed it in counseling and Ive spoken to his sister-in-law about a lot of my concerns. Since most of my issue was with her. We talk on a consistent basis now. So I dont feel the same way ive felt before. His family know of our situation now and the truth is out there. There was a lack of communication and peace making on my boyfriends behalf and that was discussed in counseling. He knows that he should be honest about everything.
We have not had sex. Most of teh time we dont even sleep in the same bed. He sleeps on the couch. Our Pastor knows that we are currently living together. He told us to stop having sex and he is informing us about us moving apart until we are in fact married.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 7/28/2008 9:53:56 PM
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JJB1222
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
When my wonderful DH proposed to me, I owed $64,000 in student loans and $11,000 on my car. As an engagement present, he paid off my debt so that I could enter into marriage "debt free" (except for my condo -- which we sold when we bought our house.)
Now that's better than an engagement ring!
I had some debt before we got married; a student loan and some credit card debt. The important thing was that I told DH BEFORE we went any further. I did not want to assume that he would take it on. However, he did and respected the fact that I was upfront about it.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 8/18/2008 10:29:27 PM
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BookReader
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Yes, my husband had educational debt. A big whopping sum.
Financial issues is the cause of divorce for most marriages. If a couple works together they can get out of debt and work towards saving money. It's possible if both people have the determination.
Bookreader
(link edited TOS 13 and 15)
< Message edited by Kath -- 8/19/2008 2:30:45 PM >
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RE: Debt before marriage - 8/19/2008 1:31:05 AM
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Paymeister
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Several issues present themselves, and others have done a good job of pointing most of them out. Responsibility is the key issue: you and he need to deal well with what God has given you. And one of the things He has given you is that you're still 'free' and can choose whether or not to marry this guy.
- Overspending is one BIG RED FLAG: if he's a child financially, he needs to grow up on his own, not on your back. Let him show you a couple of years of holding-down-two-jobs-and-paying-off-debt-aggressively;
- Lying is another BIG RED FLAG (OK, 'hiding things' if you can't bring yourself to call it lying) This worries me a lot:
quote:
We have been living together since April while he had the debt that I didnt know about....He knows that he should be honest about everything....
. I'm not sure how long after such behavior you should wait before saying "yes" to him, but this is a critical item: if you can't trust him, you're going to have a rotten marriage. WHY PUT YOURSELF INTO SUCH A SITUATION?
- Behavior needs to be matched to your station in life: as a single mom, if you can't afford your own place, you probably ought to take a roommate or move back in with family. But living together REGARDLESS OF HOW WELL-BEHAVED YOU ARE (and your pastor evidently has doubts) is acting like you're married when you're not. Cleave to him when you marry him, not before. And you're giving your kids an awful example, as well as giving Christ and Christians a big black eye in the perception of all of your neighbors and acquaintances. Same BED?!?! Please... why put yourself and him in such a position? You don't belong there. And he is the one who should be showing leadership here: what do his actions suggest of his behavior after the wedding? If he is fuzzy on what is appropriate behavior for singles, how can you have any assurance that he understands what proper behavior is for a married man? For instance: let's say you get called away from town (death of a relative, perhaps), and a female friend where he works gets the boot from her live-in boyfriend. Will he take her home as he did with you? Sleep in the same bed? Not a good risk, in my opinion.
- If you choose to go through with this (and your words suggest that my cautions may be of primary use with other readers), a wedding should be appropriate for your station in life as well: if you can't afford it and your family can't or won't foot the bill for it, have a quiet ceremony at your church and a potluck to follow. BUT DON'T STICK YOUR HEAD IN A NOOSE BY GOING INTO DEBT! And don't run up VISA on your honeymoon like I did.
But back to your question: how much debt is OK? Considering the strife and discomfort my debt (short version: sinful irresponsibility) has caused the family, I would say that the fellow should be either debt-free or have a couple of YEARS of consistent, heroic repayment history before a woman should even consider him. You can bet I'll be making this a big deal with anyone coming to ask about my daughter! Now if the fellow is in good shape financially (=debt-free and a good job), and he wants to take on the woman's debt, it would seem a variation on slaying a dragon to get the princess. No problem there, unless she exhibits red-flag behaviors like overspending.
Long version: I've been a fool financially, and would have been in a lot better shape if I had listened to my wife (the frugal one in the family). Because of my sin, we lived without electricity for a half-year or so, and without indoor plumbing for about that long (showers were in the field at the faucet, while it was still dark). We used a kerosene heater in a cast-off trailer that was originally planned to become a hay barn. We now live in a better trailer, and have one car that has a rod knock. BUT... by God's grace we're debt-free (no credit card debt, no mortgage, no car payments). Sure, we're uncomfortable with a junker car and no gravel on the driveway (etc.) but we're THRILLED to be out of debt.
To the guys reading this: you do NOT want to put your family through this. Get out of debt first - quality women will still be there when you are debt-free, and will be a lot happier if they marry you instead of marrying you-and-your-debt.
=====================
Hope this helps, Aisha - you're looking for help in the right place (seek wisdom from the Lord, and He'll give it). I worry about some of the choices you've already made, but to be realistic they aren't much different than the bad choices I've made or that anyone else has made. Assuming you're a baptised believer, you were bought with Christ's blood, and you have immeasurable worth and value. You have rough edges that need to be knocked off - just like everyone else. And you have consequences to earlier bad moves (or the bad moves of others, perhaps) to deal with: may the Lord give you tremendous grace for dealing with them. Bottom line: I would submit that this fellow has some serious red flags showing, and you may wish to pass on him or pass on getting married soon. He needs to show better responsibility before you should put yourself under his authority. I'll be praying for you. And for him!
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RE: Debt before marriage - 8/19/2008 2:53:20 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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I am working on getting out of debt right now, and I hope to stay that way, and if a guy comes along, I hope I will be out of debt for him.
When I started college, I only wanted to get a preschool certificate at a jr. college, and I got pressured into going to the 4 year college, and then I got sick. If I had stuck with plan A like I wanted, I wouldn't have been in debt. Yes, my debt is my fault, but on the other hand if people had kept their noses out of my business, it wouldn't have happened.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 8/19/2008 11:17:59 AM
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deermousie
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Sometimes the best advice is a true story from a person who didn't follow good advice:
I married a man who was in debt. We got counseling from a big shot financial guy who said "Get out of debt and stay out of debt." We both said we would, but neither of us understood that DH had a spending problem (besetting sin).
Upshot: DH honestly didn't know where our money went, because he was spending $10 here and $50 there and not paying attention and not budgeting. When we needed more money than he earned, he got (another) loan from the bank (big red flag). Our couple thousand dollar debt at the wedding turned into over $50,000 of debt in a few years.
I pulled in my horns and cut costs whereever I could: no makeup, no haircuts, occasional clothes only from thrift store, no soccer lessons or music lessons for the kid, only one car (and DH had it, and he rode with coworkers when we couldn't afford to fix that car). No vacations, and for a long time, no insurance. No toys. In a word, near-poverty. All our cash went to repay the bank. It took over 19 years to get out of debt; we had twice before but DH immediately took out more loans "because we needed it."
If you can't live on what you make, you can't afford to make payments with interest to the bank. It's a TRAP.
Now that we're out of debt, our kid started college and all our spare cash goes to her. We're still living like we were in debt, but it's positive and not negative. We aren't sending money to the bank for once, but it's educating our kid instead.
Ha! Once we pay for college (and we have no loans for this - we are avoiding them like the Plague and paying cash) then we'll probably have a wedding to pay for.  It will likely be simple. But we'll be debt-free, by God's grace.
And I actually paid for a haircut last week and we splurged and got professional protraits of our family. Our first ever. We paid cash. They turned out beautiful.
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RE: Debt before marriage - 8/25/2008 5:07:00 PM
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Aisha
Posts: 42
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From: Maryland
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Just wanted to give everyone an update on whats going on...
I am now a college student and I have all online classes which is more flexible for me. We are still in premarital counseling because some Fridays when we are supposed to meet the Pastor have other obligations. So we must wait...its been 3wks since we have been but we will return this Friday. I have asked about an engagement ring from him and he said thathe dont want a time limit on when he puts a ring on my finger and that he feels counseling should be done before any proposal. So I asked him when after counseling would he want to get married and he said he didnt know.
So I am bummed right now and dont know what to do. I cannot go buy what he is telling me and I would think he would want to marry sooner to stop playing house and to stop the sinful nature of living together although we dont practice premarial sex. I dont know if its a good idea to walk away from this situation but my mind isnt thinking family anymore. I am thinking without him in the picture especially now since he dont know when he would like to be married even if we are told its okay to go ahead and marry. I am very disturbed about this. Talking about marriage only makes us argue.
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