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Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
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Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? - 12/16/2008 3:11:35 PM
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evryknee
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That's the question: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
I've read a lot of well-meaning posts that have gven the advice to learn to love yourself before you can love someone else. This advice was given by several in a post for someone who had been raped and felt somewhat ashamed and lonely. Though this sounds like great advice on the outside, I do not think it comes more from worldly wisdom than Biblical.
Where do you stand and why? Is there Scriptural evidence to support what you believe?
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 3:41:41 PM
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mrf084
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Psalms 139:13-15 is evidence that we should love ourselves if we love God. Also Genesis 1:27 since we are made by God in the image of God. Mark 12:31 says to love your neighbor as yourself. If we have no self-love how are we to reconcile these? We will be seeking to fill that God shaped hole in our hearts throughout our lives without reconciling ourselves first to God's image of us. That image is that He loves us so we should also. God Bless
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 4:12:35 PM
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delete123
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Ephesians commands us to love ourselves in chapter 5:v28 In the same way, a husband ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife **loves* himself.
v29 After all, No one ever hated his own body.
(KJV: says no man hateth his own flesh)
This scripture tells us we must love ourselves to love others properly.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 4:36:29 PM
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evryknee
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OK. Some of these scriptures assume that we already love ourselves, but does not command that we must love ourselves. So, in the Eph. passage, could it be said that Paul is meaning that if we, as husbands, take care our wives as our bodies, then we are really taking care of ourselves (or loving ourselves) because a happy wife makes a happy husband (ideally)? So, perhaps this would be more a comparison as to how we should love our wives, rather than you must love yourself first, then your wife.
What do you think?
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 4:48:23 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evryknee
could it be said that Paul is meaning that if we, as husbands, take care our wives as our bodies, then we are really taking care of ourselves (or loving ourselves) because a happy wife makes a happy husband (ideally)? So, perhaps this would be more a comparison as to how we should love our wives, rather than you must love yourself first, then your wife.
What do you think?
But if you don't love yourself, you will not know how to love and care for your wife properly.
Because you are disdain with self, you will be disdain with others.
If you can not find your own happiness and love things about yourself, how can you express that to someone.
If you do, are you lying to them? You love isn't that deep, but shallow words that fall from your lips? Just to appease and please?
You should love self first, because your body is His temple. If He liveth in you and you hateth yourself, then you in a sense are not loving God.
And with hate there is no Light
Blessings
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 4:49:36 PM
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mrf084
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Would you hate yourself even though God loves you? The first two sources aren't a command I agree. How can you love your neighbor if you hate yourself? Wouldn't it then be hate your neighbor as you hate your self. It might be dislike your neighbor as you dislike yourself. It could be begrudge your neighbor as you begrudge yourself.It could be be ambivalent towards your neighbor as you are towards yourself. The precondition is that you love yourself. That is the second five commandments distilled down.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 8:31:42 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evryknee
OK. Some of these scriptures assume that we already love ourselves, but does not command that we must love ourselves. So, in the Eph. passage, could it be said that Paul is meaning that if we, as husbands, take care our wives as our bodies, then we are really taking care of ourselves (or loving ourselves) because a happy wife makes a happy husband (ideally)? So, perhaps this would be more a comparison as to how we should love our wives, rather than you must love yourself first, then your wife.
What do you think?
I think you're right. This is a bit of a pet peeve with me. Frankly, the Bible talks a LOT more about humility than even the vaguest, reaching allusions you can make to loving ourselves or self esteem. Sure, we're to know who we are in Christ but, if we boast, we're to boast in Him. IMO, to walk around all down on ourselves or with "low self esteem" is all to often nothing more than distorted pride. I'll get blasted for that and for saying that I suffered with depression for years until I realized it was rooted in pride - wanting to have, do, or be more than what Christ had called me to have, do, or be at that time - or the result of failure from trying to be what God calls me to in my own strength. Either way, any of these problems, are nothing more than putting our focus on ourselves and not on Him. I have a friend deep into the "deliverance ministry" (which I think has some merit but only because it's horribly neglected by most of the Church but usually, as most "movements" do, it goes too far) and he has recently started talking nonstop about self-hate...it's a new buzz word in this vein of the Church and I think it clearly has seaped in right from the psychobabble of the world that is pervasively invading Christianity. Like I said, this is something that I've thought and read a lot about and it truly bugs me. Don't expect many here (or anywhere) to agree with your line of thinking on this but I do.
evryknee, you'll find this article interesting.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 9:30:23 PM
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netstroller
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This is a complicated subject, and I don't think I can do it justice in a post so I won't even try to. To overly generalize it--"overly" in the sense that it won't thoroughly address the needs of those suffering from severe self-guilt or inability to love others, but not "overly" in the negative sense that it is less than completely true--it comes down the the greatest commandment to "Love the Lord your God with all your..."
We are healed when we focus on others, just as we are spiritually healed when we turn our focus on God. How often have we experienced this in our daily lives, when we in our pain reach out to others and somehow find healing for ourselves. These same principles apply to loving: if we try to love others by loving ourselves, we have it backwards and it just isn't going to happen very often. Another verse that applies here is "he who choose to save his life will loose it, but he who..." Although that verse's immediate context is salvation, it--not surprisingly--parallels how we are built emotionally and what we need for emotional wholeness.
Again, this is a broad generalization and someone with deep emotional problems should probably get some good Christian counseling, but I'm convinced the principle of outward focus is consistent with Biblical principles and how we are designed, and effective counseling needs to be driven with that premise.
_____________________________
...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, ...
(Heb 12:1-2)
<<-- Someone get me a chair, need a break from this running...
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 10:02:30 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
Frankly, the Bible talks a LOT more about humility than even the vaguest, reaching allusions you can make to loving ourselves or self esteem. Sure, we're to know who we are in Christ but, if we boast, we're to boast in Him. IMO, to walk around all down on ourselves or with "low self esteem" is all to often nothing more than distorted pride. I'll get blasted for that and for saying that I suffered with depression for years until I realized it was rooted in pride - wanting to have, do, or be more than what Christ had called me to have, do, or be at that time - or the result of failure from trying to be what God calls me to in my own strength. Either way, any of these problems, are nothing more than putting our focus on ourselves and not on Him. I have a friend deep into the "deliverance ministry" (which I think has some merit but only because it's horribly neglected by most of the Church but usually, as most "movements" do, it goes too far) and he has recently started talking nonstop about self-hate...it's a new buzz word in this vein of the Church and I think it clearly has seaped in right from the psychobabble of the world that is pervasively invading Christianity. Like I said, this is something that I've thought and read a lot about and it truly bugs me. Don't expect many here (or anywhere) to agree with your line of thinking on this but I do.
evryknee, you'll find this article interesting.
Yup you are right CSL~
I most certainly disagree the Lord showed me that loving oneself is very important and it certainly has nothing to do with self pride.
Loving oneself also has nothing to do with confidence and self-esteem either, because He is our confidence and self esteem and we allow Him to work through us. And that is why we do not boast about the things we do.
Loving oneself is more of knowing that He lives in You and if you neglect oneself, then you are also neglecting Him.
I agree that it is true when you help others healing and other things take place, but again it is not of our own that is doing the work but God in Us.
As we walk that proverbial road whether in health or in hurt or ailment, He heals us, because we are responding to His Spirit and not that of our own.
I read your article and maybe it is true for some, but I know for me it is as far as the wind can blow.
If you notice in the bible most people did not have their own confidence or self esteem, but did things with His power.
Gideon,Moses, and many others. Scripture also tells us, it's not by might, not by power, but by the Spirit of God that these people and people of today can do what they do.
In all humility wait on God
Blessings
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 10:26:10 PM
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mrf084
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I would agree with netstroller that the primary focus of love is outward and first focus is God. Second focus should be others. Third focus ourselves. If there isn't a self love though, through the understanding that God's love for us is the example, then we will present a hollow example of what he desires for us to show to the unsaved and each other.
I would also agree with netstroller that man is designed with that outward focus. This question though was related directly to someone who has been damaged in the physical love aspect. Self-image is critical and needs to be restored. It seems to me that can only be related to them through what God's opinion of them is. Not to hate themselves and God for making them. If on the other hand you are speaking to someone who has no trauma, love in its highest form is selfless. Maybe its just me but I don't know how you get there without at least liking yourself. No need to be a narcissist.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 10:49:24 PM
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lynnmoon
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This is such a great queston and I'm loving the discussion.
Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? For me the short answer is yes, you do. But the long answer lies in a lot of the discussion that's already taken place and might be too deep to uncover so quickly.
Selfishness and our sinful nature certainly lead us to pervert natural and healthy principles and I do think that's been done some in our efforts to take care of #1....but the prevelance of the perversion doesn't negate the truth of the original principal.
As has been mentioned, there are several scriptures that give commands to do other things ASSUMING that you do love yourself. No, they are not commands to love yourself, but the fact that it's not negatively spoken of says to me that this is the natural state of being for the normal healthy mind. God says love your wife as you love yourself. It's like a measuring stick. This assumes that a person getting married doesn't hate and damage themselves...if this were the case, that person is probably better off NOT taking a wife until they have at least enough self care ability to know what is good so that they can at least do that for the other person. If people were really not supposed to love themselves and care for themselves and thier well being we wouldn't care rather or not we lived or died. We wouldn't strive to keep our bodies from harm or hurt. Those are natural insticts that remain until something messes them up.
It is my assertion that natural unabused human nature loves themselves to a point that I'm guessing God expects. He made us good enough to be loved by Him, so how arrogant would it be to assume that I am not good enough to be loved by me. KWIM? God loves me....so why wouldn't He want me to love me? And if I don't love me at all, how messed up is that???????
Why on Earth would I go adding another person to that drama because I'm BOUND to harm them because my barometer is broken. A mom that warms a bottle for a baby or runs a bath for a baby can test it on the inside of her arm or by swishing her own arm around in the water. That's a sensetive area and can be used to judge rather or not subjecting the baby's skin to the water will do the baby harm. If the mom has some disorder (stroke, carpel tunnel, etc.) that prevents her arm from feeling properly; if she keeps using the broken barometer to judge she might harm the baby because her judgement is off. Of course, the analogy only goes so far because the mom can just get a thermometer, lol, but the point I'm trying to convey is that if something is so wrong with our own thoughts of ourselves it's going to mess up how we see other people. We may find ways around it and might still do okay in relationships; but more likely you are going to burn someone because you don't know that your fire is too much. Or you'll get burned bad because you don't feel that this isn't right for you.
_____________________________
Lynn
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/16/2008 11:04:30 PM
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lynnmoon
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Oh, I did have more thoughts...just wanted to break'em up.
I do agree with the model of God first, other's second, self last...but I don't think that applies to "mental worth assignment". LOL, that's a new term I just came up with. I think it applies to service. I should serve God first and through a secure relationship with the Lord, we learn that we don't have to put our wants above others because God has called us to sacrafice and service.
Now, I'll point out, that the whole idea of sacrifice to me indicates that one loves themselves to some extent because well...if you truly thought yourself lower than everything and everyone then it would be no sacrifice to put yourself last, you would never have thought of yourself as worth anything BUT last....it would simply be as it should be in your mind. Not a sacrifice of what could have been.
Anyways, I digress...I believe that the idea of having to love yourself does get taken too far and goes beyond learning to love yourself into sinful pride. We use it as an excuse to leave our spouses because "I deserve to be happy". We use it as an excuse for poor parenting and neglecting responsibilties because "I need my me time" etc.
And the T.V. doctors and therapists take the idea of self love to a whole new level that I don't think God intended. It's more self elevation so we get leary when we hear people talk about that kind of stuff.
But in the end, I do still think it's good logic and sound advice that if you don't love yourself, you really aren't going to love someone else appropriately till you get that problem solved.
_____________________________
Lynn
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/17/2008 2:01:23 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
We already naturally love ourselves...we have to work to put others first.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/17/2008 4:06:39 AM
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agapetos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
We already naturally love ourselves...we have to work to put others first.
Actually, there are many people in the world today who do not like themselves and will constantly put the needs of others before themselves.
I've learnt to understand and accept myself better as I've got older. With that, I've been better able to give love to others. Not sure if I love myself, but I am a work in progress.
_____________________________
Stovie, Stovie, what am I going to do with you!
Maggie
September 09
My blog
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/17/2008 11:21:32 PM
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stratt
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Hey all! I havent been on here in years...because i had to go learn and whatnot... but i thought i would check things out and see whats up...
Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
I have been wondering about this question a lot lately. And i have a friend that i was debating this about so i would like to find the truth for her sake if not for my own.
The conclusion i have come to may sound like a cop out. But if you have come to understand it for yourself you may understand where i am coming from... so actually hear what im trying to say.... I only warn about this because it used to sound like a garbage answer to me as well.
If you love God and look to him and seek him follow him and hope for his rightousness..... and praise him then you will...
Be loving God.
Be loving others.
Be loving yourself.
But it isnt accomplished by focusing on your self or really even on others.... but focusing on God.
If i would quote a verse to support my hope.... i would quote where it is written.... Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his rightousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
That is my take on it.... but the reason i posted this is more to see what other christians think of my conclusion.... and not really to teach or make a statement of fact. So please feel free to BOLDLY agree or disagree with me. Because i think it is perhaps THE most important issue in our christian walk. Thanks for listening.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 1:26:08 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Excellent post, stratt!!!!!
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 6:31:59 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stratt
Because i think it is perhaps THE most important issue in our christian walk.
That's a stretch.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 10:13:02 AM
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lynnmoon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: stratt
Because i think it is perhaps THE most important issue in our christian walk.
That's a stretch.
I don't think it's a stretch. The love part of our relationship with God is THE THING that matters. Obeying all the rules in the world mean nothing if you have not love. Speaking with tounges of angels and tounges of men mean nothing if you have not love. Christ's main commandment was to love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Everything else is in the whole New Testement is supposed to be an outgrowth of that love, isn't it?
_____________________________
Lynn
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 10:51:08 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: stratt
Because i think it is perhaps THE most important issue in our christian walk.
That's a stretch.
I don't think it's a stretch. The love part of our relationship with God is THE THING that matters. Obeying all the rules in the world mean nothing if you have not love. Speaking with tounges of angels and tounges of men mean nothing if you have not love. Christ's main commandment was to love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Everything else is in the whole New Testement is supposed to be an outgrowth of that love, isn't it?
His love, not loving yourself. That's probably how you were reading it.
The whole concept of self-love is so worldly and unscriptural, I can't believe we're having this conversation. You can't take two scriptures twisted to maybe possibly refer to loving yourself (as a good thing) and use those to counter so many more that say to deny self, not think of ourselves more highly than we ought, and seek humility. Its pop psychology in the Church with Christianese and nice sounding labels put to it and we're all led off and sidetracked. This is just one example.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 1:22:46 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
Nope! In order to love others we just have to recognize that God loves us in spite of how flawed we really are.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 1:23:46 PM
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lynnmoon
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csl7037,
You are correct that I assumed stratt's point about the most important thing to be talking about loving God....which I think is indeed the most important issue in our Christian walk.
_____________________________
Lynn
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 3:49:07 PM
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stratt
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Hey again everybody! Just to clarify... this was the part i was mostly aiming at. I realize i may not have been very clear in my initial question so i am restating the main idea. I put it in brackets below.
[Love.... or even a fulfilling christian life.... isnt accomplished by focusing on your self or really even on others.... but focusing on God. And it is through focusing entirely on God that we come to love others and ourselves. ]
I am restating it... because either i wasnt clear about it the first time around or i just dont understand what those who disagree are saying. I do want to understand... so dont give up on me.
Also i just wanted to add... that I realize that there is the from Gods point of view idea. That God loved us. That God called us. That God saved us. That God gave us everything we have. And i even can see in my own life that i would not know that i should love God if God had not taught me that i NEED to love him.... so i guess what im saying is that i dont think our loving God is accomplished apart from God in any way. And even the kind of thoughts contained in this paragraph are exactly what im talking about.... focusing on God. It seems imposible to me to be depressed when you replace your depressed thoughts with thoughts of God! If God is occupying your thoughts.... he displaces thoughts of self. And believe me i used to be very very very self focused... i guess i still am when i forget the way.
Also as a side note. I am sorry if it appears that i kind of took over this thread. I realize you should probably be taking the most time in specifically answering the original posters questions in depth.... I just thought it was in the same vein so i posted in here as well. Thanks for you help in advance everyone!
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 7:59:54 PM
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lynnmoon
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stratt, I thought your points were well stated and clear, but thanks for offering the clarification in case they weren't. God Bless!!
_____________________________
Lynn
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/18/2008 8:58:03 PM
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jaimestarcross
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Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
We already love ourselves, it's loving others that
can be difficult --- our love for others can be inhibited when we
overcome by outside influences like: abuse, rape, broken relationships, fear of the unknown,losing our job/home/business etc.... most of us know how hard it is to love others when we have been wronged or suffered a great loss.
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RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love ot... - 12/19/2008 1:29:28 PM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evryknee
That's the question: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others?
Where do you stand and why? Is there Scriptural evidence to support what you believe?
Yes we definitely need to love ourselves in healthy way in order to love others. We get that simply when we receive God's unconditional love.
I firmly believe that the majority of people's problems stem from the fact that they do Not like, accept themselves.
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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