|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/12/2008 2:45:59 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Because I am not the only one who has gone through this, who is going through it, or who will go through it, I have decided to "go public" with my emergence from a cult, what kept me there, and why it is still a problem years after leaving. I welcome suggestions and comments, especially helpful Scriptures.
Presently, while I still have a way to go, I feel like I am on the brink of freedom. Therefore, this may be the best time to write about it. Regardless, I recognize that the proof of freedom by the grace of G-d is whether or not I continue living and growing in His freedom.
In my search for freedom, I have turned to the Scriptures and to Almighty G-d; to a place of worship which encourages liberty, adherence to Scriptures, and integrity; to certain books and websites; and to some persons who have walked in the same shoes as those I have been wearing. It has been a long and tedious road up to now, and feeling like I am on the "brink" has not made the road any easier; in fact, it has become harder because I have been forced to look in a far less-darkened mirror.
Unfortunately, I just received a call to go help someone who is out of gas, so I will get back to this later.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
Definition of a cult - 12/12/2008 5:45:51 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
First, what is a cult. Two sites gave numbered elements (or basic principles) of what makes a church a cult.
The first -- a set of 16 elements (adapted from one site just to stay within guidelines of copyright laws):
Of those that recognize the Bible as a source of reality:
- Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity (often deny such ideas as the deity of Messiah, His physical resurrection, His personal and physical return to earth, and/or salvation by faith alone).
- Any group with a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top.
- A group is called a cult because of their behaviour - not their doctrines. (Some cults teach the basics of the Christian faith but have behavioural patterns that are abusive, controlling and cultic.) The church is centered around the interpretations of the leadership and submissive, unquestioning acceptance of these is essential to be a member of good standing.
- Leader(s) may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.
- They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader(s) and work.
- They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks in the form of threats of dire calamity from G-d if they leave, certain death at Armageddon, being shunned by their family and friends, etc. This is used as a vital part of the mind control process.
- Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing, signing over all their property upon entering the group, coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed, and/or selling items for the group as part of their ministry.
- Bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or selling literature and tapes, sometimes bragging that they don't do this, in an attempt to give the idea that they are not interested in money.
- Great emphasis is placed upon loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members are often strongly absorbed into the group's activities, sometimes to the extent of physical and emotional exhaustion.
- There is often control over many aspects of the private lives of members. This control may be directed through constant and repetitious teaching on "how to be a true Christian" or "being obedient to leadership" or even through communal living. Members will look to their leaders for guidance in much of even the common decisions of life.
- Some Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal, while others have no problem lifting up the leaders as though they have special qualities and deserve special honor over others.
- Dissent or questioning of the group's teachings, decisions, and expenditures is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission.
- Members may be required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of "dobbing" on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for "spiritual welfare".
- They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception/theocratic strategy).
- Members may be required to refuse some forms of medical treatment.
- Attempts to leave (or reveal embarrassing facts about the group) may be met with threats in the way of retribution taken by G-d Himself or by actual physical violence by members of the group. Some churches even require members to take oaths of loyalty by signing a "covenant."
The other site gave these 8 elements of a cult:
- Some view G-d as a cold, harsh, distant taskmaster rather than an approachable, loving Father, basing relationship with Him on our ability to perform spiritual duties, denying the power of grace.
- Some place emphasis on doing outward things to show others that God accepts them. We deceive ourselves into believing that we can win God’s approval through a religious dress code, certain spiritual disciplines, particular music styles or even doctrinal positions. Certain common or ordinary clothing, overuse of talents, constantly busy, activities and relationships outside of church taboo
- Traditions and formulas are used to accomplish spiritual goals. Trust in liturgies, denominational policies, or man-made programs to obtain results that only God alone can give.
- Joyless, cynical, and hypercritical, turning the homes and churches sour. Then, whenever genuine joy and love are expressed, this becomes a threat to those who have lost the simplicity of true faith. Criticism and non-acceptance of "outside" persons, knowledge, literature, or adherence to only one particular Bibles translation, often with open criticism of the others from the pulpit
- Prideful and isolated, thinking that the adherents are more righteous or special. Low tollerence for other believers with different understandings.
- Harsh, judgmental attitude toward sinners, yet those who ingest this poison typically struggle with sinful habits that they cannot admit to anyone else. Such religious persons often will not interact with nonbelievers or even other believers because they don’t want their own superior morals to be tainted by them. Often accompanied by separation from family, with the idea pushed that the church is now their family -- their "real" family.
- Rejects progressive revelation and refuses to embrace change. This is why many churches become irrelevant to society. They become so focused on what G-d did 50 years ago that they become stuck in a time warp—and cannot move forward from there.
- Readily persecutes or criticizes those who disagree with their views. Critical of the message of grace when it seems to threaten or undermine their religion. Refusal to acknowledge their own sin, refusal to apologize.
Of the first set of 16 elements, my church, hereon referred to as the C, held to 13, with 2 additional ideas having been used during my lifetime.
Of the second set of 8, the C firmly held to and taught all 8.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 12/14/2008 11:34:20 AM >
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Definition of a cult - 12/13/2008 12:31:41 AM
|
|
|
OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2586
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: out of the everywhere into here
Status: offline
|
Hi Abiyah!!!!!! Welcome to PFY...Maggie's (3 Cappucino's mom) parents got involved in a cult for a while...they are still recovering in some ways as well..I didn't thoroughly read your stuff, because I am too tired now, but I'll try to read more thoroughly later.
_____________________________
There is no greater magic than the magic of love...Zeddicus Zuel Zyrander
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/13/2008 8:16:56 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
No church-cult is completely evil. If they were, we would all run from them immediately, rather than staying long enough to experience damage. And the C wasn't completely evil either. In fact, it had many good points.
The C was not merely a single church but a small organization with directly related churches in the U.S., Canada, Norway, and some parts of Africa as well as some other countries. It was a close-knit organization that kept its individual churches on a very short leash by only allowing its own literature to be used in all its churches, yearly camp meetings in which its specific teachings were strongly taught, strongly discouraging attending other churches or reading their books, not allowing speakers from other churches in its pulpits, and not allowing Bible studies in homes.
We were taught to think all of the above were wonderful ideals, and I thought so while a member there, except for the final one -- no Bible studies. I thought that was ridiculous but was told that experience had taught them that Bible studies led to trouble. Well, of course! Some of the people probably began to see what the Bible really said, and I am sure that this led to problems they would rather not have to deal with.
The organization tended to have wonderful music, in that it encouraged any who wished to be involved in music to take classes and be professionally taught. Each church tried to have an orchestra and choir if at all possible, depending upon church size and talent, of course. A couple of the churches had smaller-but-nice-sized symphonic orchestras with at least nearly all the sections represented, and the talent was obvious, not at all like those often seen in churches on TV.
The orchestra had a special place on the platform, usually facing the audience, as did the usual lineup of one pastor and at least a couple ministers in every church.
There were also opportunities for people of many other talents to serve, except for dance, because dancing was a sin. However, it welcomed most of the other arts and used them as fully as the persons were able to give.
The churches showcased their music along with a time of personal testimonies and a sermon at almost every service. Every C church of which I was aware had at least two services on Sundays and at least one weeknight service. Music and orchestra practices were mandatory in most, as were Sunday school teachers' meetings.
Most of the churches, while usually modest, were attractive visually, and many were mortgage-free. Whenever there was a building project, talented and skillful members gave their time freely, often traveling far to make sure that the churches were well-built and maintained without adding to the churches' financial burdens.
Every C church had altars: not tables where communion was served but approximately knee-high benches where people could come forward for prayer after every service. Everyone prayed aloud and all at once both before the services in prayer rooms and (for those who sat on the platform) on the platform and afterward at the altars. Prayer was very strongly showcased, and all active members were expected to pray after every service. In the smaller churches, the pastors would make sure that they did.
They were very proud of the fact that they never took an offering during church. Instead, there were small boxes in the backs of the churches, and sometimes in other areas as well, where people placed their "tithes" and offerings.
Hm-m-m. A lot of this sounds very attractive, doesn't it?
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 12/14/2008 11:36:13 AM >
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/13/2008 9:06:40 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
So how did I get involved? My parents attended C churches from a few years before I was born.
Unfortunately, the church organization taught that all other churches were biblically, morally, and in other ways inferior. Further, they strongly taught that when people left the C, their lives fell apart: they ended up divorced, destitute, sick, and finally, they went to hell taking their children with them. That was what I was taught from birth and what was pounded into our heads often. We lived in fear of other churches, and we feared for anyone who left the C. Any who intimated they were considering leaving were soundly warned! We had all heard it often, knew how to say it word-for-word, and we repeated it by rote without any further thought. When I was kicked out and decided not to attempt to return, I had several people speak this over me, one of them several times. Sad.
The little church I started out in, upon my birth and until I was almost 8-1/2, had quite a few people whom I loved, who were members, attenders, or regular visitors, although I especially cannot count the initial pastor there (1949 - 1952) among "people whom I loved." He was a wicked, wicked man in my opinion. The later two pastors (the organization often changed pastors every four years at that time) were decent, kindly men.
In the spring of 1958, my parents moved out of state, and later to another state, where my father was to act as a missionary-pastor, because neither of these states had C churches. However, his house-churches didn't work out, nor did the one in the final state, so we ended up either not attending anywhere of bouncing about from church to church. The Bible was rarely opened in our home, and my sister and I certainly were not given anything even similar to a biblical education. We were, however, introduced to a number of churches and their pastors, some of which made the C look pretty good and even my first pastor look almost human! It was an interesting time. So from 1958 until 1963, we were not churched, but the fear of leaving the C continued to be pounded into us, especially using the worst of the churches as examples.
In '63, we moved to where the C was again, and we were forced to attend from then until I married in 1968. I married a good man in that organization, and we continued going to the C. When we had children, they also went, and I indoctrinated them as I had been indoctrinated.
My daughter, just as I had been, was forced to wear skirts and dresses all year around -- no pants, even though we lived in Minnesota (!).
No makeup.
Long hair.
And my girl and boy, just as I had been taught, wore no jewelry.
We didn't go to movies either.
But bad, bad us: we had a TV from the time they were born . . . but then the church later decided that watching TV was no longer a sin.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 12/14/2008 11:39:13 AM >
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/13/2008 10:22:07 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Advancing
MFrom
MMAbysmal
MMMFaith
Toward the end of my tenure in the C, I did an experiment. I already knew that this was so, but I just wanted to test it once before leaving.
It is noticeable that when people would testify in the church, praising G-d, the people and ministers would "amen" their praise, but it was also noticeable that when they would praise the C church itself, the "amens" would be far stronger, louder, more adamant.
So at camp meeting, I testified. I thanked G-d for what He had done for me, as was customary. Then I praised the C. And sure enough, the amens were for more profound! Noticeably! I knew it would happen, yet is stunned me so much that I went momentarily silent, in awe! I then said a sentence or two more in closing, then sat down. Although I attended the church a number of months longer, that was the last time I testified. I knew beyong knowing what a farce the whole thing was.
Another humorous thing about the C church. During camp meetings through most of my 50.5 years there, and in church services, they always lined up as many ministers on the platform, on the front row, facing the congregation. And all of them looked like they had eaten sour apples in the prayer room before service.
Well, all but one. There was one guy who became a minister in about 1984 or so, who really stood out back then, because he was the only one who smiled. Lately, on their site, I must admit, I have tried unsuccessfully to find a modern photo of him smiling.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 12/14/2008 11:45:21 AM >
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/14/2008 1:22:52 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Perhaps I should mention more of the recent things that caused me to start this thread.
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_4015046/mpage_1/tm.htm , "Long after the exit, still hurting," which I started on 29 November 2008, tells about a weekend when I was so angry, I was in a three-day rage. People on CW came to that thread and wrote advice, offered websites, and told me about books that could help. One person even sent me a book that I just finished, having gone through it slowly, thoroughly, with notes. I am still going through two others.
Here's the thing I want to broach here today: Sure, I was reared in that church, brought up to believe that it was the only church because that was what they taught and because they prevented us from attending other churches under threats of hell fire and disaster. It was all I knew.
However, I played right into their hands.
When I was a child, I totally equated G-d with Mother. Since I hated my mother as even a toddler, I hated G-d and adamantly told Him to leave me alone as a three-year-old. I meant it. So I made my own decision.
When the married pastor I had as a teen in St. Louis, who was old enough to be my grandfather, stopped me in a darkened hallway and kissed me on the lips as he should not have, I told no one. I was not capable of grasping how wrong it was. I was horrified by it but carried it alone. If I had told my parents, Mother would have beaten me -- I knew that by experience.
That I stayed in the C church until I was married and afterward was, then, my own fault, because I had long ago told G-d to leave me alone, not giving Him a chance to guide me out of that church.
Yes, I did ask Him to "save" me when I was fourteen, but the damage had been done, and as long as I remained in my parents' home, the damage continued. If I had been smart, I would have left the church when my first husband did, after his many disappointments with the C church, the people in the "branch church" (as they were called in that organization), and with me. But I was so damaged that I couldn't go, couldn't see a way out, and had convinced myself that I was doing the right thing.
I stayed in the C church and took all the abuse in Minneapolis because I didn't see any other way out. Bottom line: it was my choice. When the people there were mean to me, I thought I deserved it. (Actually, I didn't even know that there was a different way of life or another choice!) When the pastor in MPLS touched me on my chest, my mind could not even grasp that this was so wrong that I should have run from that church immediately. I thought I still had to stay.
When another pastor in MPLS asked me questions of a sexual nature about how I managed as a widow, I was starting to "get it." I gave him a dirty look and refused to come back to work there, but I continued going to church, while holding him in complete contempt while I lived there.
This is what adhering to a cult does to a person: it saps their strength, they will allow obnoxious and wrong actions to continue, and they will do nothing. But the fact remains: it is their choice to stay there and take it.
And a few other things:
(1) To parents who rear their children in controlling churches --
Your children will think this is what the church is like. They won't know to leave. Make sure that the church you are rearing your children in is the church you want your precious, innocent, not-yet-born grandchildren reared in!
(2) To parents who command a controlling home --
You are sapping your children's ability to think, to analyze, and to respond properly to the people and entities that will attempt to use them. Is that what you want?
(3) To parents who command an abusive home --
Let me tell you something: you may think that your child won't remember, but they do. Children are not as stupid as many parents think. Much of my memory goes back to things that happened when I was two and three years old -- especially remembering the worst things. Don't think that what you do does not matter. What you do, what you teach, who you are, and the way you treat your child will likely be remembered. Don't be a fool.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 12/15/2008 1:39:22 PM >
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/14/2008 1:30:38 PM
|
|
|
Focusing
Posts: 5185
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
|
Hi Abiyah, I'm really glad you started this thread.
I was involved with a cult several years ago, and even though it was for a fairly short amount of time (less than a year), what I took from it was a huge distrust of "churches" as a whole. I see some of the traits you listed in just about every church I have ever attended, before and since, and it makes my wanting to get involved now something I struggle with. In fact, I have a lot of distrust for "religious" people as a whole too.
I know the last comment sounds pretty harsh, but even coming to online communities and reading what some of the stronger personalities say can be hard. People these days seem so eager to find someone to follow. I don't know if they are too lazy to step up and learn for themselves or think for themselves or make their own decisions or take their own stand or are just too wishy-washy. Revelation 3:16 says So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. Jesus continues by saying I wish that you were cold or hot.
All I know is I don't want to be spit out of His mouth! I don't want to just go with the flow and be lukewarm. I don't want to just follow after someone, or agree with something someone says, simply because it sounds good. I truly believe that is not what God wants from us.
Being in that cult definitely did a lot of lasting damage, and I wonder if I will ever recover from it. The only thing I have found so far is to maintain a smaller group of friends who are strong believers. I tend to be skeptical of those whose words sound so smooth and have a tendency to paint too rosy a picture of their view of things. I run from anyone whom I believe is being manipulative.
Maybe it was a good thing, as it taught me to guard my heart and mind from people and organizations that want to draw people in for their own prideful reasons. "Trust me and I will tell you what God wants from you .........." versus having my own relationship with God and trusting Him exclusively.
< Message edited by Focusing -- 12/14/2008 1:40:30 PM >
_____________________________
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure ... Phil 2:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/14/2008 3:15:40 PM
|
|
|
saraimay75
Posts: 8768
Joined: 5/11/2005
From: Wherever God plants me.
Status: offline
|
Well, I haven't been involved with a cult. But I have had to free myself from my past in order to do what God is calling me to do with my life.
I have Learning Differences/Disabilities and while I was in school teachers did not know how to deal with me. So I was either ignored of mistreated. This made me feel stupid by the time I was in second grade. I did the bare minimum in school. My peers teased me horridly.
I barely graduated from High School. I was in and out of college Put on Academic Probation then Suspention (sp?) a total of three time. This got me dissmissed from out State University.
During my first year of college in 1994 I met Trishy a.k.a Mrs Above All who later introduced me to Christ (the real one not the cult). Then there is all the forgiving I had to do the verse that helped me Luke 23:34 "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"
I had to forgive all my peers for mistreating me. I had to forgive my teachers for ignoring and or mistreating me. I had to forgive myself for giving up on myself. All this forgiving took YEARS.
When I had forgiven I knew what God was calling me to do. I am now back in school studying to become a Preschool Teacher. Teaching is some I thought I was never good enough to do. Never bright enough to do.
_____________________________
You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
~Dr. Seuss
http://forums.crosswalk.com/Saraimay75_Cruising_Around
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/16/2008 1:53:16 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Focusing and Saraimay, thank you so much for your input. I welcome any further insight you may have.
I understand not being able to trust religious people, particularly those who we have either allowed to have authority over us or who try to usurp authority over us -- the worst being the latter. Regarding such persons, I think that we all need to recognize that as long as we stay where they are operating, we are giving them power.
The Bible certainly does say that we are to "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account," but it does not say that we are supposed to just stay where there is any kind of abuse. Much of the power of those who claim wrongly to be leaders is that they threaten those who leave, using threats of calamity and threats of loss of love. Such threats only come from fearful, weak persons -- like those who tried to hold Saraimay back.
Thank G-d for everyone who pulls the strength out of themselves to listen to G-d who promises freedom to those who are His.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/17/2008 12:54:46 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Forgiveness came up on http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_4015046/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#4052318 , so I asked that we move it here. This is an area I am very shaky about, so I would like to hear from others.
What I know about it:
- The Bible is clear: it says to do it.
- I don't remember the Bible being explicit about what it is
- The Bible tells what actions to take
- The Bible isn't totally clear about how to do it in the heart
- But while many say that the Bible says to forget, it doesn't
Or do I just not know where to look???
Here is what modern thought says about it:
- Forgiveness is not for the forgiven; it is for the forgiver
- Forgiveness frees the forgiver from the hatefulness of the forgiven
- Forgiveness frees the forgiver from servitude to the forgiven
- Forgiveness does not forget but it makes the offense of no effect
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a Cult - 12/23/2008 2:23:18 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
I can't be on the computer long, so I read through everything. I will be back later.
We are in the midst of a major snow storm (for this area, anyway) right now, so since I can only be on the computer at work right now, I may not make it in tomorrow. I'll get back as soon as I can.
Thank you!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Definition of a cult - 3/25/2009 9:03:57 PM
|
|
|
vew
Posts: 27
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
|
Hi Covaan-Mesuga....I just wante to add the information I found as to what constitutes a cult. A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherent's live in groups apart from the rest of society.....The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be Gods Word. Interestingly, some of the Jews asked whether the activity of Jesus Christ represented "a new teaching" (Mark 1:27) Later, some Greeks thought the apostle Paul was introducing a "new teaching" (Acts 17:19,20) It was new to the ears of those who were hearing it, but the important thing was that it was the truth, in full harmony with God's' Word....... ............... VEW
_____________________________
You Will Know The Truth and The Truth Will Set You Free.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Re: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a... - 3/25/2009 9:35:42 PM
|
|
|
vew
Posts: 27
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
|
Hi Cabaan-Meshuga.....Many of the things you describe are indeed admirable. The fact is, one can find some good in all religions...Most teach that a person should not lie or steal, and so forth. But is that sufficient? Would you be happy to drink a glass of poisoned water because someone assured you that most of what you were getting was water? 2 Cor. 11:14,15 says: "Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness." (Here we are cautioned that not everything that originates with Satan may appear hideous. One of his chief methods of deceiving mankind has been false religion of all kinds, to some of which he gives a righteous appearance.)
Note what the apostle Paul says here at 2 Timothy 3:2,5 "Men will be.....haveing a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." (So, regardless of outward appearances or professions of love for God, if those with whom you worship do not sincerely apply his Word in their own lives, the Bible urges us to break off such association.).....VEW
_____________________________
You Will Know The Truth and The Truth Will Set You Free.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Re: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a... - 4/2/2009 6:16:28 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Thank you so much for all the answers to my query. I have been away a few months, because I felt like I needed to concentrate on healing from all the stuff that had occurred.
The good things are these:
I have been able to forgive my parents and move on.
I have been able to let the church go and forgive myself for staying in it so long.
And mainly -- the nightmares about the church have not recurred -- or, at least, I have been unaware of them upon waking -- over the last month plus.
There have been attacks, but as soon as I recognize the source, I've found solace.
G-d is good, and His mercy is everlasting! That's the bottom line!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Re: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a... - 4/3/2009 12:45:36 AM
|
|
|
Bountiful
Posts: 744
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline
|
Good thread!. I have never been a member of a cult, I am one of many people who suffer from past "church abuse" or "church hurt". I suppose "hurt" is a better term. Churches are made up of fallible human beings so I guess it is no surprise that these things happen. I grew up in a small, very conservative baptist church. I ended up thinking of God as a frowning, arms crossed being, just waiting to get me for something I did wrong - and of course, everything I did was wrong. Somehow the love, joy, mercy, grace and forgiveness of the Lord seemed to get lost or certainly, somehow I missed it. I don't know that anyone was truly at fault. This was during the 50's and 60's. My parents and many other members came from a farming or small town background. Many didn't have a lot of education. All were hardworking people and were doing the best they could. But as their children grew up, I think they got scared. Our education was so much better/different than what they had known. Christianity can be presented as very strict, controlling. No questions were allowed. You were just supposed to accept whatever got dished out and keep your mouth shut. I felt I had to leave my brains at the door of the church. I felt like Christianity (and my parents) wanted to put me into smaller and smaller boxes and I was afraid I would suffocate or soon there would be nothing left of me. Somewhere inside of me I felt that God couldn't possibly want this kind of life for his children, but I didn't know who I could talk to or where to go to find answers. So I just gave up on it. So I left it behind for 40 years. I had given my life to Christ when I was twelve and was baptized. But as I entered my teens, it just seemed my love for God was being condensed into a life full of "no," "no," "no," "no." Actually it ended up feeling there was NO life in it at all. I'm not going to get into my life story at this time. Suffice it to say that I did some fairly common stupid things, ended up a single mom, worked hard to raise them, have a number of breakdowns...... After my last breakdown, I was suicidal. My doctor (who is a Christian and a wonderful man) suggested that I give God another chance; what did I have to lose. One day while I was out shopping I came across a study bible and decided to buy it. It had lots of good helps in it. It showed you where to go when you were depressed, hopeless, faithless, full of pain, sorrowing, etc. It was an interesting time. I had read the Bible at least once during my childhood/youth. But now I was approaching it as a desperate adult. My doctor was also counselling me and it was an interesting process. There were things I would find in the Bible that would make me mad. I would get cry out to God about things I thought were so unfair (at least in my eyes). At other times I would find things that soothed my broken heart. After about 6 months of this I re-dedicated my life to Christ, but I won't tell you it's been easy. I know that God is my only hope. He has given me a reason to keep living. But we still go toe to toe many times. My relationship with God has to be as open and honest as I can make it. Otherwise I can't deal with it. I've learned how incredibly hard it is to get rid of incorrect ways of thinking about God, about the Bible, about the Christian life. It's very hard for me to accept the love that God has for me. I spent my life thinking I was just a big mistake; everything I did was wrong. But God is so good, he is with me all along this journey I am taking with him. He knows I have many broken places that need healing. I was afraid he would have to take a jackhammer to the concrete walls I had built around my heart, but he has blessed me by eroding those walls like gentle waves, with such love and tenderness, that I end up amazed at what he is doing. I don't think I will ever find this journey easy. There are many times I get tired and just want to quit. But He just says, "rest, that's OK; we'll keep going when you're ready." I'm sorry if what I have written doesn't really have anything to do with cults, but I think I understand the damage and hurt caused by "religion" and would love to talk with others about this. So many Christians don't seem to want a deeper relationship with our Lord and i find that frustrating and saddening. May God bless all of you and I look forward to getting to know you.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Re: Emerging From the Abyss: Finding Freedom From a... - 4/23/2009 4:18:21 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3175
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
|
Oh, thank you ProlifePJ and Still4gvn! The journey just keeps getting better and better!
:-)
Bountiful, thank you for writing about your experience. No one ever walks this road alone -- there is always someone who had similar experiences, and invariably, there are "someones" who had it far worse. I am glad that G-d lets us know these things so that we neither feel alone in our survival, but also that we know that there are those who had it worse and they survived it all. He is so good -- isn't He?!
Nice to have you on CW!!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
I feel for all people who get involved. Cults do a lot of damage to the most tender parts of us.
The Gathering Place
Christine 
