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Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/6/2008 2:33:32 PM
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victorwyant
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I have been a Christian for 10 years, and have read the entire Bible twice. In the past, I have always "glossed over" the more difficult OT passages dealing with God's wrath, dismissing them as "something funky in the OT dealing with Israel". But now, I am troubled because God's character seems very inconsistent with that of Jesus Christ.
Specifically, Exodus 32:27 and Numbers 15:32 (plus or minus a few versus to get context) are troubling me most at the moment. Here are the issues which I have been unable to answer:
1) why God decides to kill these individuals? Is death really necessary, and more importantly, is this really consistent with his character (especially in the case of the wood gatherer). Would Jesus have killed them?
2) not only does God decide to kill them, but he doesn't even appear to have the fortitude to do it himself. He makes the Levites do his dirty work in Exodus, and the whole community in Numbers. He then rewards the Levites for this slaughter by making them priests! Yikes! Trying to reconcile this, I think about Jesus, and can't imagine the parallel........imagine if upon seeing the moneychangers in the temple, Jesus says to the disciples "pick up your swords and slay them!" No way! But that's EXACTLY what it appears God is doing here in these OT passages.
In the golden calf story, God could have commanded Moses to have the rebels leave, not to be a part of the community any longer, or, if death was necessary, he could have killed them himself instead of making the Levites do it.
As for the guy gathering wood, give me break! Maybe a stern reminder, but death!?!? And even if death was to be the punishment, once again, God could have done it himself rather than making the people do it.
---in the process of trying to make sense of this, I've come across a few other OT passages which seem even more egregious, but I'll try to take this a small chunk at a time, so I'll focus just on these two for now.
What is going on with this?????
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/6/2008 2:38:07 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/16/2007
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There's a book that deals with some of this in a bit of a tangential way. Check out Wm. Webb "Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals"
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/6/2008 3:31:37 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1419
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Greetings in The Lord! God will do things any way that He pleases with anyone at any time for whatsoever purpose He so desires. We need to remember what Jesus taught about the wasted talent that was given to someone. The entrusted 'servant' said God was hard and not reasonable and was judged according to his actions and faith concerning God. If one believes that God is easy and merciful; shouldn't we make every effort, all the more, to invest whatever He has given us to produce favorable returns? Yet if God is tough, shouln't we seek to serve and please Him all the more and invest whatever He has given us to produce favorable returns?
For it is written: Jesus said: For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions." God also did Works through Moses and fulfilled all in Christ. He came both ways.
We are given a written Testimony that He has. Therefore, shouldn't we all the more understand that He will do things His Way? His Good, Pleasing, and Perfect Will is to be done on earth as in Heaven.
The kings of the earth have ordered people to go to war, be killed, tortured, pestilences, bombs, chemical weapons... When they order it, it is done many times. When The King of another City from On High orders something, shouldn't we who are His people carry it out?
Consider this: the disobedient who were not allowed to escape death through the Righteous Commandment given have already endured their punishment. How will we escape, then, if we ignore so great a salvation?! For God can call these in His Court on The Day of Judgment to testify concerning us if He wants to.
Also, when Israel had turned to worship false gods like 'baal', God still sent the harvest and food and mercy instead of Judgment (decisions), at first, for it is written: 'I take no delight in the death of anyone.'
quote:
ORIGINAL: victorwyant
I have been a Christian for 10 years, and have read the entire Bible twice. In the past, I have always "glossed over" the more difficult OT passages dealing with God's wrath, dismissing them as "something funky in the OT dealing with Israel". But now, I am troubled because God's character seems very inconsistent with that of Jesus Christ.
Specifically, Exodus 32:27 and Numbers 15:32 (plus or minus a few versus to get context) are troubling me most at the moment. Here are the issues which I have been unable to answer:
1) why God decides to kill these individuals? Is death really necessary, and more importantly, is this really consistent with his character (especially in the case of the wood gatherer). Would Jesus have killed them?
2) not only does God decide to kill them, but he doesn't even appear to have the fortitude to do it himself. He makes the Levites do his dirty work in Exodus, and the whole community in Numbers. He then rewards the Levites for this slaughter by making them priests! Yikes! Trying to reconcile this, I think about Jesus, and can't imagine the parallel........imagine if upon seeing the moneychangers in the temple, Jesus says to the disciples "pick up your swords and slay them!" No way! But that's EXACTLY what it appears God is doing here in these OT passages.
In the golden calf story, God could have commanded Moses to have the rebels leave, not to be a part of the community any longer, or, if death was necessary, he could have killed them himself instead of making the Levites do it.
As for the guy gathering wood, give me break! Maybe a stern reminder, but death!?!? And even if death was to be the punishment, once again, God could have done it himself rather than making the people do it.
---in the process of trying to make sense of this, I've come across a few other OT passages which seem even more egregious, but I'll try to take this a small chunk at a time, so I'll focus just on these two for now.
What is going on with this?????
< Message edited by .prophetica. -- 4/7/2008 8:10:28 AM >
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/6/2008 4:47:49 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2827
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The title of your thread is an absolute distortion of the very character of God.
It is deceptive and angers me.
Of all the characteristics of God that I have experienced, more then any other, it is God's mercy.
You are on a very dangerous, dangerous tract. It is a very slippery slope to stay focused on what your OP focus's on.
If you are, indeed a Christian, I beg of you to not allow the enemy of your soul to continue putting His doubts about the character of God in your mind
For that is what is happening here. I know because I have been there.
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/6/2008 11:05:27 PM
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SnapDraggin
Posts: 20
Joined: 2/10/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
The title of your thread is an absolute distortion of the very character of God.
It is deceptive and angers me.
Of all the characteristics of God that I have experienced, more then any other, it is God's mercy.
You are on a very dangerous, dangerous tract. It is a very slippery slope to stay focused on what your OP focus's on.
If you are, indeed a Christian, I beg of you to not allow the enemy of your soul to continue putting His doubts about the character of God in your mind
For that is what is happening here. I know because I have been there.
Good morning, CherishedbyGod,
Victorwyant is asking very reasonable questions that deserves answers, instead of warnings. If some of these things are not answered, it's a though we are turning a blind eye towards it, without understanding traits in God's character. I'll give you a simple example..
References: Jos_11:6; Jos_11:9; 2Sa_8:4; 1Ch_18:4;
Jos 11:6 "...thou shalt hamstring their horses, and burn their chariots with fire..."
To many people this seems like a very vicious thing to do, especially to animals, as it is the humans who train them for war. The "hamstring" is better known as "houghing" and here is what a veterinarian has to say regarding the "houghing of warhorses"..
quote:
"...the "houghing" of horses involved the cutting of the main tendon in their back legs (like our Achilles tendon that carries the most stress and load under hard use) so the horses would live but never again able to be used as chariot horses for war; but they could still be taken as booty and as "spoils of war" and not have to be outright killed and wasted as a resource. Therefore these horses would become no longer valuable for war purposes (since they were already highly trained for chariot pulling and, if recaptured by the enemy, these horses could be reused for war - and these horses were trained to do various things: stop quickly, make a circle to pick up fallen charioteers, and have the charioteer walk on the tongue of the rigging, while, if necessary, the charioteer could even mount and ride one (or both) of the horses if the chariot was damaged, so as to cut loose a damaged chariot), but these war-bootly horses could still be used for breeding stock, for riding by individuals, for light work around the farms,..."
Sometimes, if we do not delve into things, we will never know what God wants us to learn about Him..
Regards
Snappy
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/6/2008 11:58:10 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2827
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SnapDraggin
Victorwyant is asking very reasonable questions that deserves answers, instead of warnings. If some of these things are not answered, it's a though we are turning a blind eye towards it, without understanding traits in God's character. I'll give you a simple example..
Regards
Snappy
I think it best that you answer him and not me. I still believe it was best that I warn him instead of giving answers.....This person is in very dangerous territory, I believe...
I am also very concerned that weak believers or unbelievers see his title and are driven away from God because of it....
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 12:27:33 AM
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VCO
Posts: 98
Joined: 1/13/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: victorwyant
I have been a Christian for 10 years, and have read the entire Bible twice. In the past, I have always "glossed over" the more difficult OT passages dealing with God's wrath, dismissing them as "something funky in the OT dealing with Israel". But now, I am troubled because God's character seems very inconsistent with that of Jesus Christ.
. . .
U&U
GOD cannot cease to be everything that He is. It is True that He is a Loving, Merciful God; but it is equally true that He is a "Just GOD", and He cannot cease being a "Just GOD".
Isaiah 45:21 (NKJV)
21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.
AND He does not just get others to do His killing when that is the justice a Just God must hand out.
Acts 5:1-11 (NIV)
1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property.
2 With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened.
6 Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.
8 Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price."
9 Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."
10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
The question is NOT "why did God deal with Ananias and Sapphira so harshly?" Because God dealt with them justly. The question IS "why has God NOT dealt with us equally as harsh when we sinned?"
_____________________________
Titus 2:13
VCO
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 1:52:37 AM
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SnapDraggin
Posts: 20
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
I think it best that you answer him and not me. I still believe it was best that I warn him instead of giving answers.....This person is in very dangerous territory, I believe...
I am also very concerned that weak believers or unbelievers see his title and are driven away from God because of it....
Hi CherishedbyGod,
I appreciate your concern but feel the opposite to be more valuable. Unbelievers ask these type of questions and shy away because their questions are met with "warnings", rather than explanations - weak believers in their turn look up to more mature believers to supply rational answers. Alot of people struggle with these type of questions because no satisfactory answers are given to them. The Bible isn't shy in showing us these "horrible" events, therefore we shouldn't shy away either.
Regards
Snappy 
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 2:34:27 AM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2827
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SnapDraggin
quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
I think it best that you answer him and not me. I still believe it was best that I warn him instead of giving answers.....This person is in very dangerous territory, I believe...
I am also very concerned that weak believers or unbelievers see his title and are driven away from God because of it....
Hi CherishedbyGod,
I appreciate your concern but feel the opposite to be more valuable. Unbelievers ask these type of questions and shy away because their questions are met with "warnings", rather than explanations - weak believers in their turn look up to more mature believers to supply rational answers. Alot of people struggle with these type of questions because no satisfactory answers are given to them. The Bible isn't shy in showing us these "horrible" events, therefore we shouldn't shy away either.
Regards
Snappy
I have posted what I posted to him. If you have a problem with that, I am sorry.
I try to be led by the Holy Spirit in what I post. Am I always correct? Absolutely not...
But I would really prefer God to be leading me in what I post and not you attempting to correct me according to what you believe...
I believe what I posted was directed by the Holy Spirit.
If I am wrong, He is well able to show me...I would appreciate you to address his OP and not to try to convince me according to your beliefs... because the more you try to put your beliefs on me, the more I will turn a deaf ear to you which, BTW, I have already done...........
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 3:52:29 AM
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SnapDraggin
Posts: 20
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
I have posted what I posted to him. If you have a problem with that, I am sorry.
I try to be led by the Holy Spirit in what I post. Am I always correct? Absolutely not...
But I would really prefer God to be leading me in what I post and not you attempting to correct me according to what you believe...
I believe what I posted was directed by the Holy Spirit.
If I am wrong, He is well able to show me...I would appreciate you to address his OP and not to try to convince me according to your beliefs... because the more you try to put your beliefs on me, the more I will turn a deaf ear to you which, BTW, I have already done...........
Hi CherishedbyGod,
I do apologize if you feel I was trying to correct you or impose my beliefs onto you - that wasn't my intension. I feel strongly in trying to answer difficult questions according to Scripture, because leaving them unanswered, I feel, might confuse weak- or unbelievers. Job says it best..
Job 2:10 "...But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips..."
In one of the above posts, VCO quoted Isaiah 45:21, but there is also a very interesting verse a few verses up..
Isa 45:7 "...I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things..."
By not attending to these verses, might lead an unbeliever to wrong conclusions.
I apologize.
Regards
Snappy
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 5:29:12 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2278
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
quote:
ORIGINAL: SnapDraggin
Victorwyant is asking very reasonable questions that deserves answers, instead of warnings. If some of these things are not answered, it's a though we are turning a blind eye towards it, without understanding traits in God's character. I'll give you a simple example..
Regards
Snappy
I think it best that you answer him and not me. I still believe it was best that I warn him instead of giving answers.....This person is in very dangerous territory, I believe...
I am also very concerned that weak believers or unbelievers see his title and are driven away from God because of it....
I believe that God knows how to reach people and how to keep those He has reached. I don't understand these things in the Old Testament either. If there are explanations, how can we learn without asking questions?
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 7:14:51 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3624
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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We have too limited a picture of God and Who He is.
"Would Jesus do that?" I would say yes. Read Acts 5 where God struck dead a man and his wife for lying. That is AFTER the resurrection. And what did HE tell his disciples?
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (i.e. to hell)
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Paul writes in Romans 11 "Behold the goodness and severity of God..." You will find that double edged sword thruought scritpture.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Exo 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 10:41:05 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10972
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 10:55:31 AM
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jbow
Posts: 760
Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:
1) why God decides to kill these individuals? Is death really necessary, and more importantly, is this really consistent with his character (especially in the case of the wood gatherer). Would Jesus have killed them?
Who do you think the God of the OT is?
Jude 4-5
4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
The Lord Jude is speaking of in both verses is the Lord Jesus.
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 12:49:03 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1300
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: online
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Early on the nation Israel was instructed by Jehovah there would be only two outcomes for the peoples inhabiting the Promised Land given the covenant, conversion as in Nineveh's case or destruction as Jericho. However, Israel 's resolve waned and didn't(or wouldn't) fulfill their part of the covenant and in fact intermarried. It wasn't an example of a 'merciless God' rather it was a curse; God cursed the union of Jew and gentile for both suffered the lack blessing and idolatry further diluting their influence among the world's population.
“Whoever sacrifices to any god, save to the Lord only, shall be utterly destroyed."(Exodus 22:20)
Psalms 106:34-"They did not destroy the peoples, as the Lord commanded them, 35 but they mingled with the nations and learned to do as they did. 36 They served their idols, which became a snare to them."
< Message edited by LCannon -- 4/7/2008 1:05:21 PM >
_____________________________
"[Prayer power] hasn't never been taxed to[His]full capacity. His standing challenge, 'Call on
Me and I will answer with great and mighty things which thou can't imagine." Hudson Tayor
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RE: Merciful God Is Beyond Man's Comprehension! - 4/7/2008 12:58:24 PM
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VCO
Posts: 98
Joined: 1/13/2008
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U&U
I think the MAJOR reason we sometimes struggle with understanding WHY God allowed some to be killed, and WHY in some cases He ordered them to be killed, and WHY in other cases He personally dropped them dead on the spot; is an ERRONEOUS view of how bad our own sin is in the sight of God.
In the sight of God, the most vicious mass murderer in all of History is not a worse sinner than us, WE ARE AS BAD AS HIM! Even one thought of sin is as bad as Adolf Hitler. THAT is how BAD God thinks sin is! AND even the single evil thought is worthy of not only physical death, but also the eternal "Second Death" of being tossed into the Lake of Fire (HELL). When we correct our view of how bad sin is, we then are AWED and Humbled by how Great God's MERCY is. Remember MERCY is "Not receiving what we deserve" and GRACE is "Receiving what we do not deserve."
Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:27-28 (NKJV)
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Romans 7:24 (NKJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
1 Timothy 1:15 (NKJV)
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
To understand the Wrath of God, we must first understand HOW BAD OUR OWN SIN IS, IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. Truely it is NOT a question of WHY did God do that to them; because it is a question of WHY has He NOT done it to us.
_____________________________
Titus 2:13
VCO
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 1:31:15 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2827
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SnapDraggin
quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
I have posted what I posted to him. If you have a problem with that, I am sorry.
I try to be led by the Holy Spirit in what I post. Am I always correct? Absolutely not...
But I would really prefer God to be leading me in what I post and not you attempting to correct me according to what you believe...
I believe what I posted was directed by the Holy Spirit.
If I am wrong, He is well able to show me...I would appreciate you to address his OP and not to try to convince me according to your beliefs... because the more you try to put your beliefs on me, the more I will turn a deaf ear to you which, BTW, I have already done...........
Hi CherishedbyGod,
I do apologize if you feel I was trying to correct you or impose my beliefs onto you - that wasn't my intension. I feel strongly in trying to answer difficult questions according to Scripture, because leaving them unanswered, I feel, might confuse weak- or unbelievers. Job says it best..
Job 2:10 "...But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips..."
In one of the above posts, VCO quoted Isaiah 45:21, but there is also a very interesting verse a few verses up..
Isa 45:7 "...I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things..."
By not attending to these verses, might lead an unbeliever to wrong conclusions.
I apologize.
Regards
Snappy
No problem Snappy I appreciate you giving the OP'er the benefit of the doubt.
The God of the OT is not merciless: Here is what He proclaims about Himself to Moses:
And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin Exodus 34:5-7
So, to the OP, is your title "Merciless God....." correct?
No.
I do hope and pray you are able to get past your doubts. They are extremely difficult issues to wrestle with.
But I pray you don't come to the conclusion that God is merciless. Because He is soooo merciful!!!!
< Message edited by CherishedbyGod -- 4/7/2008 1:44:20 PM >
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/7/2008 2:40:33 PM
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dvfish
Posts: 1
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I have been in the ministry for most of my life and I have asked similar questions -only to myself because I was afraid that it would be heresy to say it aloud! I now know that God is not afraid of any question that I have when I come to him genuinely seeking.
Because the OT is a history of the nation of Israel we sometimes don't consider that God pronounces judgement on every nation of the world. The captivity of the Israelites came as discipline for sin. The destruction of other nations or tribes also came as discipline for sin - for although we have no Biblical record of how God speaks to other nations, we can be sure that He does speak and every person is responsible for what they do with the amount of knowledge and grace that God has revealed. I still don't know all the answers but because I trust the nature of God I know that He sees a much bigger picture than I will ever understand.
As to the nature of God being unlike the nature of Jesus that is very true. Where God is just and will not allow sin to go unpunished, Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved. It is one of the mysteries of the trinity of God - three persons in one - the nature of each of the three is what makes them different. The Spirit, by nature convicts, draws, comforts, reproves, etc. The Father set the standard of holiness and desires a relationship with His creation but cannot accept anything but complete holiness. The Son left His place at the side of the Father to provide the only way a sin-filled human heart can be reconciled to a holy God. Jesus would never have killed even the gravest of sinners even if they deserved death because His mission was to save. God destroys evil because sin always hurts the children that He loves.
Why does He use people to destroy others? I don't know but I think about Aaron being chosen as the high priest even after he had been the one to form the golden calf. From then on every year Aaron was required to make a sin offering for himself before he made an offering on behalf of the people. In Leviticus 9 it says his sacrifice was to be a calf! Every time Aaron performed the sacrifice he was reminded of the mercy of God toward him. Perhaps the men chosen to kill another needed to be reminded that they also deserved death and the God who sees all and knows all could see a bigger purpose than we can begin to comprehend.
Keep searching and keep asking questions!
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RE: Merciful God Is Beyond Man's Comprehension! - 4/7/2008 4:02:41 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2827
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VCO
U&U
I think the MAJOR reason we sometimes struggle with understanding WHY God allowed some to be killed, and WHY in some cases He ordered them to be killed, and WHY in other cases He personally dropped them dead on the spot; is an ERRONEOUS view of how bad our own sin is in the sight of God.
In the sight of God, the most vicious mass murderer in all of History is not a worse sinner than us, WE ARE AS BAD AS HIM! Even one thought of sin is as bad as Adolf Hitler. THAT is how BAD God thinks sin is! AND even the single evil thought is worthy of not only physical death, but also the eternal "Second Death" of being tossed into the Lake of Fire (HELL). When we correct our view of how bad sin is, we then are AWED and Humbled by how Great God's MERCY is. Remember MERCY is "Not receiving what we deserve" and GRACE is "Receiving what we do not deserve."
Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:27-28 (NKJV)
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Romans 7:24 (NKJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
1 Timothy 1:15 (NKJV)
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
To understand the Wrath of God, we must first understand HOW BAD OUR OWN SIN IS, IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. Truely it is NOT a question of WHY did God do that to them; because it is a question of WHY has He NOT done it to us.
Supurb post....Thank you
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~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Merciless God makes people do his dirty work? - 4/8/2008 3:49:35 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 653
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When you read the whole of Exodus Chapter 32 to find Exodus 32:7 in context (and even the whole book of Exodus for a better balanced picture) we realise just what the LORD God took the Children of Israel through! Despite God's loving grace and mercy towards them on countless occasions, they rebelled when difficulties came their way and turned back to their old ways; they even (in this example) 'worshipped' a golden calf! They accredited the great and mighty works of God leading them out of Egypt and slavery to this golden calf saying that the calf was their savior in effect!
I cannot read this passage in Exodus Chapter 32 without thinking about another passage found in the New Testament:
Hebrews Chapter 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7For the | | | |
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