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Nirvana - 10/15/2009 10:11:12 PM
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JStucki76
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Could somebody, somewhere, please explain to me what people think is so great about this band, or about Kurt Cobain? Sure, they wrote a tremendous hook with "Smells Like Teen Spirit." The song is fun to play and I enjoy listening to it. But please--that doesn't make them a great band.
Honestly, my opinion is that they were no better than thousands of other garage bands out there-- they just got a big break. I don't begrudge them any of their success. People like their music and that's fine. What I don't understand is why they are consistently referred to as one of the best bands of the 90's. They were certainly one of the most successful, if not the most. But best? They learned four chords. Dave Grohl learned two or three rather elementary drum patterns. Their musical skills (at least, those they used in the studio) were rather unimpressive. There were so many better bands, I doubt I could list them all in one post.
Of course, I realize this is subjective to a point. But musical skills are also, to a point, objective. And I haven't heard a single Nirvana song that makes me think they had any to speak of. Perhaps my notion of what makes a band great is too narrow.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/16/2009 1:52:10 AM
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Nakedprey
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What's to explain? You either get it or you don't.
One of the best bands of the 90s?....If you're talking about mainstream bands, then sure, I could stand by that. Nevermind is a good pop album dressed up in punky aggression, and In Utero is a monster - thanks in part to Steve Albini's production.
Also, what garage bands?
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RE: Nirvana - 10/16/2009 7:32:11 AM
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mapachito13
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They started the grunge movement but I don't think they were the best even if one only takes that genre.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/16/2009 9:31:05 AM
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iluvatar
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Sometimes being a good band isn't about writing the most technically challenging material. The songs are interesting, different, and full of energy; the individual parts may be simple, but they work together well. You may not like Kurt's style of singing, but he was good at it.
quote:
Nevermind is a good pop album dressed up in punky aggression
Is it a good pop album dressed up as punk or is it a punk album made pretty by Butch Vig's production (something he's gone really overboard with as of late)? There are a bunch of videos on YouTube of Butch Vig going through different songs from the album, showing how they assembled the different parts - it's fascinating to watch how something so apparently simple could still be so intricate.
I used to like Nevermind better, but I'm listening to In Utero now and as interesting as Vig's interpretation was, I agree that Albini's was better - it sounds less dated now, too.
-Dan.
< Message edited by iluvatar -- 10/16/2009 9:40:09 AM >
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RE: Nirvana - 10/16/2009 9:37:37 AM
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hogiewan
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In the 80s, you had glam-rock and pop. Nirvana changed the musical taste of the whole country with Teen Spirit. They wrote some good songs, but they are remembered for changing the face of music more than their songs
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RE: Nirvana - 10/16/2009 12:02:30 PM
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TheTheory
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I've never understood or liked grunge. Nirvana is no different. Sadly, it was the direct result of my favorite band (Sonic Youth) that got Nirvana signed. Oi vey.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/16/2009 1:56:23 PM
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rawr.ben
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I don't like Nirvana much either.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/17/2009 2:33:52 PM
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JStucki76
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
What's to explain? You either get it or you don't.
One of the best bands of the 90s?....If you're talking about mainstream bands, then sure, I could stand by that. Nevermind is a good pop album dressed up in punky aggression, and In Utero is a monster - thanks in part to Steve Albini's production.
Also, what garage bands?
I wasn't thinking of any specific garage band(s). My point was that Nirvana's musical skills were never impressive by any standard. Smashing Pumpkins, Blind Melon, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, STP, were all WAY better. Not even close. I'm not referring to album production, level of influence, or anything else like that. I'm referring solely to their ability to play guitar, drums, and bass. If I was compiling a list of great bands, Nirvana would not even be in the top thousand.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/17/2009 3:20:16 PM
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Nakedprey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
What's to explain? You either get it or you don't.
One of the best bands of the 90s?....If you're talking about mainstream bands, then sure, I could stand by that. Nevermind is a good pop album dressed up in punky aggression, and In Utero is a monster - thanks in part to Steve Albini's production.
Also, what garage bands?
I wasn't thinking of any specific garage band(s). My point was that Nirvana's musical skills were never impressive by any standard. Smashing Pumpkins, Blind Melon, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, STP, were all WAY better. Not even close. I'm not referring to album production, level of influence, or anything else like that. I'm referring solely to their ability to play guitar, drums, and bass. If I was compiling a list of great bands, Nirvana would not even be in the top thousand.
I never granted a band much leeway just because they play their instruments proficiently. There are plenty of studio buffs who play their instruments in that way but still manage to write some of the most sterile music ever. Nirvana had a level of energy that I don't hear often. I mean yeah, they didn't write 3 part rock operas with soaring guitar solos, but Kurt knew how to write a hook. There may be a million ****py garage bands that can barely play, but there are also a million ****py bands that do know how to play.
Smashing Pumpkins - Most of their stuff is good, it's just Billy's voice that gets to me after a while.
Blind Melon - Haven't given them much of a chance to really comment. I have some best of comp and have barely touched it.
Soundgarden - Cornell can sing - no doubt about that, but his style gets on my nerves after a while. However, Grohl is a far more impressive drummer to me than Cameron. The only Soundgarden album I listen to anymore is Superunknown. I haven't heard anything that came out before Badmotorfinger.
Pearl Jam - I do put them above Nirvana. Eddie's vocal style unfortunately seemed to launch an army of imitators who added some sort of hillbilly swirl to his way of singing. But PJ are airtight as a unit, and pretty consistent with quality output. As far Eddie's singing is concerned, I prefer the way he started to sing beginning with VS.
STP - That first record is atrocious, but I like most of what they did after that. I tend to put them neck and neck with Nirvana. STP's records don't have nearly as much energy as Nirvana's, but they put out more good records than Nirvana.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/17/2009 8:51:37 PM
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JStucki76
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
Soundgarden - Cornell can sing - no doubt about that, but his style gets on my nerves after a while. However, Grohl is a far more impressive drummer to me than Cameron. The only Soundgarden album I listen to anymore is Superunknown. I haven't heard anything that came out before Badmotorfinger.
Pearl Jam - I do put them above Nirvana. Eddie's vocal style unfortunately seemed to launch an army of imitators who added some sort of hillbilly swirl to his way of singing. But PJ are airtight as a unit, and pretty consistent with quality output. As far Eddie's singing is concerned, I prefer the way he started to sing beginning with VS.
STP - That first record is atrocious, but I like most of what they did after that. I tend to put them neck and neck with Nirvana. STP's records don't have nearly as much energy as Nirvana's, but they put out more good records than Nirvana.
Heh. I guess it comes down to taste. Personally, I think Grohl is one of the worst successful drummers I have ever heard. He sounds like he has no technique or refinement to his playing whatsoever--he's just a basher. Cameron has always impressed me, as did all of his bandmates.
Funnily enough, Vedder's voice is the only thing I don't like about Pearl Jam. But I agree, they are very tight.
Again, just as a matter of taste, I don't give a hoot how much energy a band has. If they stink, it's just high-energy stink. I prefer energy AND skills, but if I have to take one over the other, I take skills.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/19/2009 12:17:14 PM
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JoeyWest
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i dont care for the style but Cobain is a musical genius. he single handedly with an album well Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden changed rock forever. too bad now hip hop mess is what all have to have.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/19/2009 4:22:59 PM
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RHardin15
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeyWest
i dont care for the style but Cobain is a musical genius. he single handedly with an album well Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden changed rock forever. too bad now hip hop mess is what all have to have.
This post doesn't make any sense...I think you started a thought, then changed it mid-sentence. Cobain could write pretty good hooks, but that is all I'll ever give him credit for. He is arguably the most overrated musician in the history of the world.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/19/2009 7:17:29 PM
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Nakedprey
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Kurt stripped down pop songs to their barest elements and fused them with punk rock, and on In Utero - a little bit of noise rock. The fact that he is not a "great" guitar player is no revelation, and most of his fans are aware of this.
Also, let's not forget that the whole "grunge" phenomenon was coined by the media. Nirvana has very little in common stylistically with most other bands associated with the grunge category. Grunge was more a "look" than anything else. Nirvana was more an evolution of punk rock. Anyone who has a sliver of knowledge about punk rock (outside of the whole pop punk realm revived by Green Day in the mid-90s) can discern this. Most "grunge" bands drew more from Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin, although some post grunge bands like Bush drew from Nirvana's sound.
So, if you think Nirvana doesn't have the musicality of a band like Soundgarden, etc. Fine. Fair enough. But sometimes, there are those of us who prefer our rock a little more brash and noisey, whether it comes from a commercially successful band like Nirvana, or lesser known bands like Jesus Lizard, Sonic Youth, or Mclusky. So, I guess in regard to the question about "what people think is so great about this band (Nirvana), or about Kurt Cobain", that's really the best explanation I can come up with.
I can't say I am really all that surprised to see Nirvana's name dragged through the mud on a Christian music message board. I can't think of a single CCM-related band since Scaterd Few, or maybe LSU, that has had a punk-based sound as volatile, unpolished, and energetic as Nirvana, and those bands weren't exactly embraced with soaring sales in CCM.
< Message edited by Nakedprey -- 10/19/2009 7:29:44 PM >
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RE: Nirvana - 10/19/2009 10:09:34 PM
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WillingSpirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
So, if you think Nirvana doesn't have the musicality of a band like Soundgarden, etc. Fine. Fair enough. But sometimes, there are those of us who prefer our rock a little more brash and noisey, whether it comes from a commercially successful band like Nirvana, or lesser known bands like Jesus Lizard, Sonic Youth, or Mclusky. So, I guess in regard to the question about "what people think is so great about this band (Nirvana), or about Kurt Cobain", that's really the best explanation I can come up with.
I can't say I am really all that surprised to see Nirvana's name dragged through the mud on a Christian music message board. I can't think of a single CCM-related band since Scaterd Few, or maybe LSU, that has had a punk-based sound as volatile, unpolished, and energetic as Nirvana, and those bands weren't exactly embraced with soaring sales in CCM.
Their definitely needs to be more music like that in the CCM world.I think Ballydowse and The Clergy (for their first album) are two other Christian examples that could be given.I absolutely love the first album of the Clergy for it's raw and wild grungy punk sound.It's certainly not polished.
I always liked grunge and Nirvana (though radio kind of spoiled it a little bit for me, certain songs that get over played).Can't say I ever got that excited about Pearl Jam.
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RE: Nirvana - 10/19/2009 11:42:51 PM
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Nakedprey
Posts: 110
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Hmmm...I remember The Clergy but never actually heard them. There was also Breakfast With Amy, whom I am also not as familiar with. I think I recall their records being underproduced, which is no surprise given they were on Blonde Vinyl. Also, I remember a band called Crashdog, whom I never got around to checking out.
*edit*
well hey waddya know, it looks like iTunes has The Clergy. They do sound a bit like L7...
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=259368559&s=143441
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RE: Nirvana - 10/20/2009 9:18:25 PM
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WillingSpirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
Hmmm...I remember The Clergy but never actually heard them. There was also Breakfast With Amy, whom I am also not as familiar with. I think I recall their records being underproduced, which is no surprise given they were on Blonde Vinyl. Also, I remember a band called Crashdog, whom I never got around to checking out.
*edit*
well hey waddya know, it looks like iTunes has The Clergy. They do sound a bit like L7...
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=259368559&s=143441
That's The Clergy album I was talking about, except my Cd copy has it under the Broken Records label instead of Maranatha.An album I keep coming back to.Unfortunately they only put out one more album (can't remember the name) and it just doesn't have that same raw energy to it.
I only have Breakfast with Amy on cassette, their "Everything Was Beautiful & Nothing Hurt" (on Narrowpath Records and Refuge) and their "Love Gift" (on Blonde Vinyl).Love Gift is the better of the two, though I haven't listened to either in quite some time.Crashdog is one of those groups that got on my radio mix tapes (stuff I taped off the radio) but never liked them enough to buy an album.
< Message edited by WillingSpirit -- 10/20/2009 9:24:37 PM >
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RE: Nirvana - 10/21/2009 9:29:30 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Nirvana spoke for a new generation for the 90's in very much the same way that the band U2 spoke to people during the 80's.
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