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Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 7:36:24 PM
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Jhud
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Obama's actual stance on homosexual rights has been fairly vague (like many of his stances) until this last week. On June 26th, his wife Michelle outlined his views on homosexual 'rights'. What she detailed:
Has a career-long devotion to adancing the rights of Lesbian, Gay, and Transgender people.
Supported Lawrence v. Texas (Striking down sodomy laws)
Wants gay rights to be recognized in terms of housing, adoption, workplace, the military, and marraige
Opposes state and federal amendments recognizing marraige as being between a man and a woman.
Opposes DOMA (Federal Defense of Marraige Act)
Opposes Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the military.
I would say this puts him on the very far left in terms of this issue - is there any reason why someone considers marraige to be a God given institution should support Obama?
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 8:34:13 PM
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rcjames
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Agreed.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 8:37:03 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 724
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Obama's actual stance on homosexual rights has been fairly vague (like many of his stances) until this last week. On June 26th, his wife Michelle outlined his views on homosexual 'rights'. What she detailed:
Has a career-long devotion to adancing the rights of Lesbian, Gay, and Transgender people.
Supported Lawrence v. Texas (Striking down sodomy laws)
Wants gay rights to be recognized in terms of housing, adoption, workplace, the military, and marraige
Opposes state and federal amendments recognizing marraige as being between a man and a woman.
Opposes DOMA (Federal Defense of Marraige Act)
Opposes Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the military.
I would say this puts him on the very far left in terms of this issue - is there any reason why someone considers marraige to be a God given institution should support Obama?
Because we shouldn't judge him, he is younger than McCain, and because he is a good speaker is what I have gathered so far. 
Who needs morals and truth in a leader? 
_____________________________
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Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
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I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 9:24:35 PM
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thomas2008
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My question is, why are we looking to government political leaders for morality? On the day California made same sex legal, where were the Christians? Isn't there any God loving, Bible believing Christians in California? Or why weren't Christians across America uniting together to make their voices heard?
Hey, I don't agree with Obama on allot of the issues and I certainly don't agree with McCain, but I believe the reason this nation has gotten the way it has isn't because of the politicians. Someone said that only 2% of the Christian population in America actually share their faith. What are the other 98% doing besides playing church?
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 9:44:59 PM
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PhunkD
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quote:
I would say this puts him on the very far left in terms of this issue - is there any reason why someone considers marraige to be a God given institution should support Obama?
Because we consider the war and the economy to be more important issues?
Thanks for asking.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 10:44:42 PM
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tafkam
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So you consider your personal comforts and discomforts above what God says is right....thanks for clearing that up....
So much for Obama being about "change"...every one of his positions is the same tired liberal line, and he toes that line like a seasoned pro...
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Tafkam
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 10:57:04 PM
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henny
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I say good for Obama.
All the more reason to vote for him.
Dems in the past have been entirely wishy-washy on the issue, and loathe to speak about it, so it's nice to know where he stands.
But I highly doubt this is going to be a big an issue this election year as it was in the past. Cultural stuff like this will be overshadowing by the war and economy. Plus it seems like both of the candidates haven't been all that eager to make it into an issue, and I've yet to see either address it at their generic stump speeches unless specifically asked.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 11:03:52 PM
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PhunkD
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... and if McCain does as much for the anti-gay crowd as Bush did, gay rights will continue to expand at a rapid pace.
And if you don't think God cares about war and justice for poor people, you are sorely mistaken.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 6/30/2008 11:24:55 PM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
... and if McCain does as much for the anti-gay crowd as Bush did, gay rights will continue to expand at a rapid pace.
And if you don't think God cares about war and justice for poor people, you are sorely mistaken.
"Justice for poor people"? What on earth..... 
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 3:34:02 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
My question is, why are we looking to government political leaders for morality? On the day California made same sex legal, where were the Christians? Isn't there any God loving, Bible believing Christians in California? Or why weren't Christians across America uniting together to make their voices heard?
You do realize that it was four justices on a court that made this decision, and not the majority of the electorate in California that had passed a law against gay marriage?
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 3:36:55 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7373
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quote:
... and if McCain does as much for the anti-gay crowd as Bush did, gay rights will continue to expand at a rapid pace.
If Obama gets to do what he intends, homosexual marriages will be ensconced in federal law.
quote:
And if you don't think God cares about war and justice for poor people, you are sorely mistaken.
And if you don't think God cares about this issue, then you are ignoring vast swaths of Scripture.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 3:48:07 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
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I think it makes him "liberal" but not "left" as liberal and left aren't the same thing.
I believe gay marriage isn't any threat to hetero marriage. Bad marriages period are a threat to marriage.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Obama's actual stance on homosexual rights has been fairly vague (like many of his stances) until this last week. On June 26th, his wife Michelle outlined his views on homosexual 'rights'. What she detailed:
Has a career-long devotion to adancing the rights of Lesbian, Gay, and Transgender people.
Supported Lawrence v. Texas (Striking down sodomy laws)
Wants gay rights to be recognized in terms of housing, adoption, workplace, the military, and marraige
Opposes state and federal amendments recognizing marraige as being between a man and a woman.
Opposes DOMA (Federal Defense of Marraige Act)
Opposes Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the military.
I would say this puts him on the very far left in terms of this issue - is there any reason why someone considers marraige to be a God given institution should support Obama?
< Message edited by ElmerFishpaw -- 7/1/2008 3:56:21 AM >
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 3:54:28 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
I think it makes him "liberal" but not "left" as there is a difference between being liberal and left wing.
I believe gay marriage isn't any threat to hetero marriage. Bad marriages period are a threat to marriage.
No, it makes him far left - and I say that as someone who used to be on the far left. A liberal thinks government programs can solve our problems - the left thinks our society must be remade via egalitarian principles.
And a gay marriage is by definition a bad marriage, so giving them a government sanction will only deteriorate marriage further.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 4:07:24 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7373
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I say good for Obama.
All the more reason to vote for him.
I think the only reason one would think this is 'all the more reason' to vote for him is if one thought gay marraige was a good and proper thing - otherwise, it wouldn't be 'good' at all.
quote:
Dems in the past have been entirely wishy-washy on the issue, and loathe to speak about it, so it's nice to know where he stands.
But I highly doubt this is going to be a big an issue this election year as it was in the past. Cultural stuff like this will be overshadowing by the war and economy. Plus it seems like both of the candidates haven't been all that eager to make it into an issue, and I've yet to see either address it at their generic stump speeches unless specifically asked.
McCain may not make an issue about it, but I think other groups definitely would and should do so - especially in light of what happened in California. It appears Obama would like to see that a Federal act.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 8:54:12 AM
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Evangel70
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quote:
And a gay marriage is by definition a bad marriage, so giving them a government sanction will only deteriorate marriage further.
How EXACTLY does a gay marriage deteriorate heterosexual marriage. If you have children, are you telling them NOT to get married because some day it may be legal for homosexuals? Would you and your wife divorce if a gay couple moved in next door? Would you have the same reaction if it were a straight couple "living together" without the benefit of marriage? Sexual immorality (homosexual or heterosexual) is biblically condemned but such behavior is still legal. How do you change this behavior? Do you make it illegal to have sex? How would you enforce that?
Where did you hear that Obama would make gay marriage a federal mandate? Obama has stated that while he supports civil unions for gay couples he does not support gay marriage.
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May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 10:03:43 AM
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Sophie11
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Gay marriage deteriorates all marriage by taking away from the importance of it, the meaning of it. Marriage itself is already becoming meaningless to many (mostly younger) folks in this country as it is, and gay marriage does no more than cause even greater harm.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 10:52:16 AM
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Evangel70
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quote:
Gay marriage deteriorates all marriage by taking away from the importance of it, the meaning of it. Marriage itself is already becoming meaningless to many (mostly younger) folks in this country as it is, and gay marriage does no more than cause even greater harm.
How is this different than the deterioration of marriage caused by a 51% divorce rate (slightly higher among evangelicals); adultery; 60% of couples living together without the benefit of marriage; the harm done by pornography and the celebration of sexual immorality in the media?
My argument is that Christians should focus on strengthening the institution of marriage so that divorce is rare among Christian marriages, adultery is practically unheard of and those outside of the church can point to Christians as examples of how to make a marriage work. Only THEN, will those outside the church believe that we take the institution of marriage seriously.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 10:54:36 AM
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tafkam
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quote:
My argument is that Christians should focus on strengthening the institution of marriage so that divorce is rare among Christian marriages, adultery is practically unheard of and those outside of the church can point to Christians as examples of how to make a marriage work. Only THEN, will those outside the church believe that we take the institution of marriage seriously.
In a rare moment, we agree.
However, I'm still not in favor of redefining marriage to include homosexual couples. Where does the redefining end?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 11:56:31 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
How EXACTLY does a gay marriage deteriorate heterosexual marriage. If you have children, are you telling them NOT to get married because some day it may be legal for homosexuals? Would you and your wife divorce if a gay couple moved in next door? Would you have the same reaction if it were a straight couple "living together" without the benefit of marriage? Sexual immorality (homosexual or heterosexual) is biblically condemned but such behavior is still legal. How do you change this behavior? Do you make it illegal to have sex? How would you enforce that?
By it’s very existence it deteriorates the basis and definition of marriage – living together, sexual immorality also deteriorate marriage, but neither of them are recognized as marriage – homosexuals want their perversion to be recognized as such. Marriage is an official state sanction of a relationship.
quote:
Where did you hear that Obama would make gay marriage a federal mandate? Obama has stated that while he supports civil unions for gay couples he does not support gay marriage.
He opposes DOMA – that is the federal restriction on gay marriage.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 12:07:42 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
How is this different than the deterioration of marriage caused by a 51% divorce rate (slightly higher among evangelicals); adultery; 60% of couples living together without the benefit of marriage; the harm done by pornography and the celebration of sexual immorality in the media?
My argument is that Christians should focus on strengthening the institution of marriage so that divorce is rare among Christian marriages, adultery is practically unheard of and those outside of the church can point to Christians as examples of how to make a marriage work. Only THEN, will those outside the church believe that we take the institution of marriage seriously.
I agree with you. But as much as each of these has been harmful to marriage, so is gay marriage. If this country is ever going to take marriage seriously, we do need to strenghten it. The more we add to the problems the harder that is to do.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 12:30:11 PM
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henny
Posts: 1207
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From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I say good for Obama.
All the more reason to vote for him.
I think the only reason one would think this is 'all the more reason' to vote for him is if one thought gay marraige was a good and proper thing - otherwise, it wouldn't be 'good' at all.
Actually, Obama is technically against gay marriage, but basically for civil unions if that's what states want to do -he's said as much in the past. Although I don't think he as any problems with it if a state wants to implement it, or if the courts rule that not having it in a particular state is unconstitutional.
I actually see that as a fault on his part, though. I highly doubt he has anything against gay marriage, he's merely bowing to political sentiment.
Same thing with McCain, and Bush even, I doubt either of them would be against gay marriage on principle alone if they didn't see it as politically beneficial for them to be against it.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 12:46:59 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7373
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quote:
Actually, Obama is technically against gay marriage, but basically for civil unions if that's what states want to do -he's said as much in the past. Although I don't think he as any problems with it if a state wants to implement it, or if the courts rule that not having it in a particular state is unconstitutional.
I actually see that as a fault on his part, though. I highly doubt he has anything against gay marriage, he's merely bowing to political sentiment.
If his wife's description is accurate, Obama all but wants to perform the ceremonies.
quote:
Same thing with McCain, and Bush even, I doubt either of them would be against gay marriage on principle alone if they didn't see it as politically beneficial for them to be against it.
As much as I appreciate the cynicism, there is really no basis for this belief.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 4:15:19 PM
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SuspenseWriter
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quote:
However, I'm still not in favor of redefining marriage to include homosexual couples. Where does the redefining end?
Situations like these always trend downward. Always. Next up? Legalized beastiality. Why not? I can see it now: "If a man and a sheep really love each other, who are we to keep them apart? Isn't it their own business?" You think I'm kidding. I'm not. Once something like this takes root, there is simply no bottom as to how far it will fall. None.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 4:22:52 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3917
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
Gay marriage deteriorates all marriage by taking away from the importance of it, the meaning of it. Marriage itself is already becoming meaningless to many (mostly younger) folks in this country as it is, and gay marriage does no more than cause even greater harm.
Those millions of heterosexual young people are cohabitating because they apparently haven't been convinced by what their parents and other adults have done with marriage. Marriage got "demeaned" decades ago and it has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuals. Christians have found it so much more convenient to focus on homosexuals than to admit to the rampant adultery among the faithful.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/1/2008 4:26:51 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
He opposes DOMA – that is the federal restriction on gay marriage.
The DOMA is a cruel joke played on conservatives by the GOP. James Dobson has a greater chance of flying to the moon on a paper airplane than the DOMA has of being enacted.
Unfornuately, McLobby has limited credibility on the marriage issue. That's why he will be less strident (but more honest) than the last GOP Presidential candidate.
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