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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/16/2009 10:46:39 AM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Crushmasterquote:
ORIGINAL: Diolecticquote:
"There are none righteous, no not one" Please read this.
It is a very easy read, & interesting. Sir,
Their explanation was utterly absurd. Those men were righteous because of His, God's righteousness! NO MAN is righteous on His own! God calls our good works "filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6). No one is righteous through their own doings. No one. Being innocent would be the same as rightous.
A newborn is innocent, has done nothing to be guilty, therefore, is rightous
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Look at this verse:
(Romans 7:18 ) - "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." Yes, the flesh is our problem, not out nature.
This is why God condemned sin in the flesh, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Rom 8:3-4).
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I could provide many other verses like this. Go ahead, I will interpret them to make sence and show you how they do not defend your posision.
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The flesh, sir, has no good in it. Humans are utterly evil. We are born that way, we act that way. He have a bad heritage. We've got original sin. They flesh is "good", God said so after creation. The flesh is "good" in that is serves a purpose.
The flesh is a tool, if you will. What matters is how we choose to use our flesh & what we choose to put or affections (desires) on.
The flesh will give pleasure because of the senses. The flesh is amoral; it takes pleasure in what ever & however, good or bad, morally or immorally for it has no mind to discern. This is unchangeable, it will remain the same even after we are saved; the flesh needs to be done away with. That will happen in the resurrection.
However, when Paul claims that in my flesh dwells no good thing, he mean that in his flesh is nothing of virtue.
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(Psalms 51:5) - "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."
Yep, David was conceived in sin.
So was my nephew, his mam, my sister was not maried at the time of his conception.
therefore, my nephew can say that along with David; he was conceiven in sin.
But those who were not conceived in any sin can not say what Davis said about his birth.
Read this for better understandin of this verse. That view is not valid or logical. If David was born out of wedlock (emphasis on "if", as you're taking some liberties in saying such), that would have no bearing upon whether or not he was, quote, "wicked".
In Christ, Where did the "wicked" come from?
The verse sais nothing about wickedness.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/16/2009 11:37:52 AM
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Diolectic
Posts: 764
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Genesis 1:26Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
"31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
In reading the above verses from Genesis 1, I believe we learn that God created man sinless and perfect or else He would not have called all that He made very good The term "Good" is what most people get hooked up on.
They think it means "perfect", which it does not.
When God called everything "good" or even "very good", He meant that it serves its purpose well.
The flesh is still good, it never stopped being good because it still serves its purpose well.
However, Paul said that "in my flesh dwells no good thing"
Paul means that he can not do good when he follows his fleshly desires because the flesh takes pleasure in what ever & however, good or bad, morally or immorally. Paul knows that he must follow his mind and conscience (Roman 7:22,25).
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Genesis 3:6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
Adam and Eve have both now eaten of the forbidden fruit. They have both disobeyed God and have committed the first sin. Most people today would say that their first sin was the fact that they wanted to eat the fruit.
However, they only sinned when they actually ate it.
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This is, or at least can be classified as the “Original Sin”. The term original sin does not appear in my Bible, but I have no problem with it’s existence based on the above verses. I do have a problem with it, because the logical conclusions are messed up and the ramifications are not good.
If there was a time when Adam's nature changed from good "human nature" to bad "sin nature" the Scriptures would definitely make that known, for such an important peace of information would have been told us. However, there is nothing said, but only speculation, which needs to be proven.
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Does that original sin follow us and are we held accountable for it? I do not believe we are. I believe we are held accountable only for our own actions. I'm glad to here this (or read it)
A lot of people say that we are "guilty in Adam".
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However, there is still that “sin nature” thing we have to deal with. To determine if we have a sin nature, first one has to define what a sin nature is. Our nature comes from what we are, which is human, and that is to mature and to bear fruit.
Our fruit, weather sin or righteousness comes from what we love or what we choose to put our affections on.
The reason that one sins is because he continues to love the desires which the law has shown to be unlawful more that the ONE who can deliver him from them.
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In reading further in Genesis I find that God put a curse on the serpent and mankind. Although it is not spelled out I believe one or part of that curse is what some people refer to as a sin nature. God cursed the ground with thorns and thistles, fertility may have been greatly impaired (by the sweat of your brow Gen 3:19).
However, God did not curse Adam with mortality, God only told Adam what his end will be, “...until you return unto the ground, for dust you are, and unto dust shall you return (Gen 3:17-19).“ Adam’s end is such because he is banned from the garden where the Tree of Life is.
There is no changing of nature.
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To me this simply means we as human have a propensity to sin. In other words we are prone to yield to the temptations and desires of the flesh. Given that meaning I have to agree we have a “sin nature.” You naturally sin because you love yourself, the world or sin, however, if you love the one who keeps you from sin and shows you the truth, you would naturally not sin.
However, just as one is thirsty, he does not have to drink, therefore, just because one loves himself, the world or even loves sin, he still does not have to sin, because sin must always be a choice. If sin is a necessity, it no longer remains to be sin.
To be born with a "sin nature" one is assuming that an infant already loves sin; assuming that an infant knows the difference between good and evil to choose the right thing (Isa 7:16).
To be born with a "sin nature" one is assuming that an infant already understands the concept of sin and/or is accountable for its own moral actions. However, as an infant, one does not understand sin and therefore can not love it, even though an infant may have affection towards an unlawful thing, no one should judge the infant to be guilty of sinning, because it is not morally accountable and in turn can not have a nature for it.
The affections of our will effects (not causes) individual choices that we make. The choice that you make will naturally follow your affections but your affections do not necessitate the decision (your decision may naturally follow your affection, but it does not have to). Consequently, if you love yourself or the world more than the one commanding you, you may not consistently do things that please the commander. Your decisions strongly tend toward your affections so that you will to do what you have favor towards.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/16/2009 11:43:41 AM
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Qtman
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I do not disagree with what you said. I did not go that far because I did not want to take the thread off topic.
Also please note that I defined "sin nature" as a propensity to sin or follow the desires of the flesh. In other words we are prone to fleshly desires. Actually I think you and I are saying the same thing.
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Aufmerksamkeit: Es ist verboten, damit Qtman mit stummen Köpfen spricht.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/16/2009 6:52:45 PM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
As humans do we inherit Adam's sin-flawed nature?
Just for clarity:
Are you implying that you inherited an unflawed nature fully capable of choosing to obey God in everything, even from the crib?
I wasn't implying anything. I was just asking a question. The question was based on a passing thought I had, which was, if we inherit Adam's sin-flawed nature, then when does our own sin-flawed nature take over from the one we inherited from Adam?
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greatdivide46
For who can eat and who can enjoy life apart from Him?. -- Ecclesiastes 2:25 (HCSB)
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/16/2009 11:38:15 PM
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holyrokker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
I'm sure someone posted this verse already, but ... Rom. 5:12 is pretty clear to me when sin entered the world.
Yes, it's been addressed. And it is also very clear that sin entered the world through Adam.
Romans 5:12 shows us:
1) Sin entered the world through Adam
2) Everyone dies
3) Everyone sins
It doesn't say that everyone sinned "in Adam", nor does it say that we inherit sin.
_____________________________
this world is not my home...
i'm just passing through...
-- Larry Norman 4/8/47 - 2/24/08
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 1:34:13 PM
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Diolectic
Posts: 764
Joined: 3/14/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I do not disagree with what you said. I did not go that far because I did not want to take the thread off topic.
Also please note that I defined "sin nature" as a propensity to sin or follow the desires of the flesh. In other words we are prone to fleshly desires. Actually I think you and I are saying the same thing. I think the only diference is that you might think that Adam brought all this uopn us because he sinned.
I say that Adam was created, formed from the dirt with this same kind of flesh as we have now.
Sin is not the reason for our flesh being the way it is, but God subjected creation to vanity & the bondage of corruption, not willingly, but for the reason of hope for the adoption, that is, the redemption of our body (Rom 8:20 -23).
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 1:39:35 PM
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Diolectic
Posts: 764
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quote:
ORIGINAL: holyrokkerquote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
I'm sure someone posted this verse already, but ... Rom. 5:12 is pretty clear to me when sin entered the world.
Yes, it's been addressed. And it is also very clear that sin entered the world through Adam.
Romans 5:12 shows us:
1) Sin entered the world through Adam
2) Everyone dies
3) Everyone sins
It doesn't say that everyone sinned "in Adam", nor does it say that we inherit sin. Yes, and no one has to sin either.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 1:53:31 PM
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holyrokker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
Yes, and no one has to sin either.
If by that you mean that sin is the result of our own choices, then I agree.
But I think we commit our will to sin before we are even aware of it. I don't think we are born sinful, but being born "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit" we commit ourselves to self-gratification from the very beginning. Because of that, sin is inevitable. We "go astray from birth". (not before birth)
< Message edited by holyrokker -- 10/17/2009 1:59:38 PM >
_____________________________
this world is not my home...
i'm just passing through...
-- Larry Norman 4/8/47 - 2/24/08
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 3:21:50 PM
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drmark
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quote:
But I think we commit our will to sin before we are even aware of it. Total nonsense! How can anyone possibly will to do anything and not even be aware of it? Do you even understand the simple definition of "will", hr?
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I don't think we are born sinful, but being born "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit" we commit ourselves to self-gratification from the very beginning. Because of that, sin is inevitable. We "go astray from birth". (not before birth) More nonsense! There is absolutely nothing sinful about wanting to eat when hungry, wanting to be warm when chilled, and wanting to be comforted when hurt. These are normal God-given physiologic responses and it is ridiculous to claim they cause "inevitable sin"!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 5:43:32 PM
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holyrokker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
But I think we commit our will to sin before we are even aware of it. Total nonsense! How can anyone possibly will to do anything and not even be aware of it? Do you even understand the simple definition of "will", hr?
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I don't think we are born sinful, but being born "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit" we commit ourselves to self-gratification from the very beginning. Because of that, sin is inevitable. We "go astray from birth". (not before birth) More nonsense! There is absolutely nothing sinful about wanting to eat when hungry, wanting to be warm when chilled, and wanting to be comforted when hurt. These are normal God-given physiologic responses and it is ridiculous to claim they cause "inevitable sin"!
I didn't say that there was anything sinful about wanting to eat when hungry, etc.
Instead of calling my post total nonsense, how about engaging in dialogue?
I realize I'm probably not nearly as intelligent and educated as you are, but at least I'm trying to learn.
_____________________________
this world is not my home...
i'm just passing through...
-- Larry Norman 4/8/47 - 2/24/08
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 5:56:10 PM
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drmark
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quote:
I didn't say that there was anything sinful about wanting to eat when hungry, etc. Why is that not "self-gratification"?
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Instead of calling my post total nonsense, how about engaging in dialogue? I didn't call your post total nonsense. I called your definition of "Committing our will" total nonsense. I notice you didn't address that criticism.
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I realize I'm probably not nearly as intelligent and educated as you are, but at least I'm trying to learn. Corrrect usage of simple vocabulary does not require high levels of intelligence and education. A little common sense goes a long way!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/17/2009 5:57:37 PM
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holyrokker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Corrrect usage of simple vocabulary does not require high levels of intelligence and education. A little common sense goes a long way!
As does common civility.
_____________________________
this world is not my home...
i'm just passing through...
-- Larry Norman 4/8/47 - 2/24/08
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/18/2009 8:27:35 AM
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drmark
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Sorry, I fail to see how my alleged lack of civility affects your correct usage of vocabulary... 
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/18/2009 10:52:57 AM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: holyrokkerquote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
Yes, and no one has to sin either. But I think we commit our will to sin before we are even aware of it. I think that if it is of your will, then you must be aware of it.
How can you will something that your not aware of?
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...we commit ourselves to self-gratification from the very beginning. These appetites are not bad or wrong in & of themselves, in fact, appetite is good unless it's used wrongly &/or not kept in check. A person’s will begin to form the habit of obeying desire, which is the appetite, which deepens & strengthens as time passes. The danger comes when the appetites becomes toward unlawful things to be satisfied.
The sin is only realized when it is known to be wrong and willfully chosen to be continued in the knowledge of being wrong, thus becoming accountable.
Paul even said that he had not known sin, but by the law (Romans 7:7)
The feelings &/or emotions develop long before the rational becomes fully developed, the feelings &/or emotions are deeply entrenched in the child's personality before conviction and understanding of the things of God.
Since the feelings develop before the rational and conscience, one may begin to form the bad habit of obeying desire rather than what is right, this bad habit may deepen & strengthen even time passes. The obvious consequence is that self indulgence may become the master principle in the soul of the child long before it can understand that this self-indulgence will interfere with the obedience to God &/or conscience. This is why the parents must keep the child in discipline. Since the child is only accountable to its parents and not yet to God, this is the only time when the child can learn by it's failings; which is a great part of learning.
However, feelings are not sinful in & of themselves; no one can help what they feel. If they are not kept in check by the parents, the infant will not learn how to control them.
Sin comes when feelings rule &/or be the judge, also when the feelings are doing the controlling & not being controlled.
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Because of that, sin is inevitable. It is unjust to be condemned for anything inevitable.
If so, then we'd have an excuse before God.
Knowing this, it would be gravely unjust to make a law against a necessity.
Example:
God to sinner - Why did you sin?
Sinner - Hey, it was inevitable, I couldn't help it,, I had to, sin is unavoidable, it is impossible not to eventually sin...
God - Since sin is inevitable, I can not condemn anyone for it.
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We "go astray from birth". (not before birth) We can only go astray when we are aware of the fact of God to go astray from.
To be born with a "sin nature" one is assuming that an infant already loves sin (the only way to sin is to have a law or a conscience about it); assuming that an infant knows the difference between good and evil to choose the right thing (Isaiah 7:16).
To be born with a "sin nature" one is assuming that an infant already understands the concept of sin and/or is accountable for its own moral actions.
However, as an infant, one does not understand sin and therefore can not love it, no one should judge an infant to be guilty of sinning, because it is not morally accountable and in turn can not have a nature for it.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/23/2009 1:32:10 AM
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SoulCrushed
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quote:
Yes, and no one has to sin either.
Outside of Christ, you cannot not sin.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/23/2009 1:44:31 AM
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SoulCrushed
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quote:
It is unjust to be condemned for anything inevitable.
But that isn't the human the problem is it? For all have sinned, all do sin and all will sin.
quote:
If so, then we'd have an excuse before God.
This presumes that the clay can make demands of the Potter (Romans 9), but ultimately all are condemned because all sin, there are no exceptions to that reality - though the Merciful Judge over all may allow for whatever exceptions he wishes when it comes to areas where Scripture is silent or for those areas that we don't understand.
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Knowing this, it would be gravely unjust to make a law against a necessity.
Interesting. This leads to quite a few questions when facing the problem of Jesus' death and all of the necessary sin that had to surround it.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/23/2009 1:48:50 AM
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SoulCrushed
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quote:
However, feelings are not sinful in & of themselves; no one can help what they feel.
Exactly, no one can help the fact that our sin nature gives rise to evil feelings. That's the whole point of the Gospel, you cannot save yourself from yourself.
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To be born with a "sin nature" one is assuming that an infant already loves sin...
It assumes that snakes will always give birth to snakes and sinners to sinners. That infants lack the capacity to express sin as adults do in no way proves that they possess the ability to resist it.
The default position of the human heart is wickedness.
< Message edited by SoulCrushed -- 10/23/2009 1:57:07 AM >
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/23/2009 12:26:45 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Outside of Christ, you cannot not sin. Amen! And "inside of Christ", you can always choose not to sin!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/23/2009 1:41:09 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SoulCrushed
quote:
Yes, and no one has to sin either.
Outside of Christ, you cannot not sin.
Whether you are in or outside of Christ you are a sinner!
When you are in Christ your sins are forgiven
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/23/2009 5:36:21 PM
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drmark
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quote:
And inside of Christ, choose not to sin? Well, dd, all you have to do is read jj's admission directly above to see that some folks obviously do not understand that victory over sin is available in Christ. I'm thankful that you and I know better!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 10/24/2009 9:26:33 AM
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SoulCrushed
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quote:
Whether you are in or outside of Christ you are a sinner!
When you are in Christ your sins are forgiven
So true, but only those inside Christ are forgiven and have freedom from sin - that is, the freedom to resist it.
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 11/5/2009 2:43:06 PM
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ChuckFinney
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SoulCrushed
quote:
Whether you are in or outside of Christ you are a sinner!
When you are in Christ your sins are forgiven
So true, but only those inside Christ are forgiven and have freedom from sin - that is, the freedom to resist it.
That is incorrect. I resisted sin before I was born-again... I was free not to sin before and after I was saved. Look at the sinner Cornelius in the book of Acts. Acts 10:1-2
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, [2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. Not only was he free not to sin, but he did spiritually good things in the sight of God. Look at all of the unregenerate sinners in the old testament doing spiritually good things. There is no such thing as a sinful nature... We are free to do good or evil.
"Error does not become Truth because it is widely accepted;
Truth does not become error, even when it stands alone!"
_____________________________
"Error does not become Truth because it is widely accepted;
Truth does not become error, even when it stands alone!"
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 11/6/2009 4:33:56 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SoulCrushedquote:
It is unjust to be condemned for anything inevitable. But that isn't the human the problem is it? For all have sinned, all do sin and all will sin.
You can't say for sure that all will sin.
Sin is a choice, choice involves option, option involves contingency, there is no
quote:
quote:
If so, then we'd have an excuse before God. This presumes that the clay can make demands of the Potter (Romans 9) It's not about the Potter and clay, but ones theology.
If sin is truly inevitable, then we are innocent, for it is not us who is actually choosing to sin but sin is a necessity.
The can be law guilty from necessities.
L. D. McCabe said, “Accountability necessitates the origination of choice between obedience and disobedience.” And again, “A free, original, independent, conscious choice between good and evil, is the sine qua non [condition] of every act that involves morality."
Miner Raymond said, “It is axiomatic that that for which any agent is morally responsible must be within his control. If man be responsible for obedience or disobedience to the divine commands, then obedience and disobedience are both equally within his power. Which of them shall result is not determined by any thing external to him. His own power of choice selects the one, it being at the same time a power equally adequate to select the other. That for which an agent is morally responsible must be an election; that is, a selection with an alternative.”
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but ultimately all are condemned because all sin, there are no exceptions to that reality Yes, because we are condemned because we are all guilty from our volition to choose sin.
We are not victims of our nature as you say we are.
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Knowing this, it would be gravely unjust to make a law against a necessity. Interesting. This leads to quite a few questions when facing the problem of Jesus' death and all of the necessary sin that had to surround it. Sin is never necessary!!!
necessity requires need, your claiming God needs sin.
You think God needed sin in order for Jesus to be crucified?
Fact is that that sin was not needed and all mankind is choosing to sin is why Jesus was crucified.
"When will a man guilty of any crime or sin accept with a tranquil mind that his wickedness is a product of his own will, not of necessity, and allow what he now strives to attribute to nature to be ascribed to his own free choice?
It affords endless comfort to transgressors of the divine law if they are able to believe that their failure to do something is due to inability rather then being unwilling, since they understand from their natural wisdom that no one can be judged for failing to do the impossible and that what is justifiable on grounds of impossibility is either a small sin or none at all."
An unknown author
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However, feelings are not sinful in & of themselves; no one can help what they feel. Exactly, no one can help the fact that our sin nature gives rise to evil feelings. That's the whole point of the Gospel, you cannot save yourself from yourself. It isn't our so called "sin nature" that gives rise to evil feelings.
Otherwise you can blame God for giving us that nature which caused you to sin.
What causes those evil feelings is that you have no love; and that you have no wisdom or understanding which is your own fault for not getting (Pro 4:7).
Stop blaming you're nature for thing which you are responsible for.
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To be born with a "sin nature" one is assuming that an infant already loves sin... It assumes that snakes will always give birth to snakes and sinners to sinners. Christians are no longer sinners, therefore, according to your logic, Christians should beget Christians.
No one is "born a sinner" and don't use Psalm 51:5 as your proof text; for it does not claim being "born a sinner"
“To equate humanity with sinfulness is to make God the Author of His own worst enemy; to make God responsible for the thing that has brought Him unhappiness.” Winkie Pratney (Youth Aflame, Bethany House, pg. 78).
Justin the Martyr said...if a man were created evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.”
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That infants lack the capacity to express sin as adults do in no way proves that they possess the ability to resist it. If we have no ability to resist sin, why does God hold us guilty for sinning?
You make God out to be stupid as to not understand the way He made us; not knowing that He made us unable to do that which He commands and condemning us for not complying.
E. M. Bounds asked, “Does God give commandments which men cannot obey? Is He so arbitrary, so severe, so unloving, as to issue commandments which cannot be obeyed? The answer is that in all of annals of Holy Scripture, not a single instance is recorded of God having commanded any man to do a thing, which was beyond his power. Is God so unjust and so inconsiderate as to require of man that which he is unable to render? To infer is to slander the character of God.”
Miner Raymond said, “It is axiomatic that that for which any agent is morally responsible must be within his control. If man be responsible for obedience or disobedience to the divine commands, then obedience and disobedience are both equally within his power. Which of them shall result is not determined by any thing external to him. His own power of choice selects the one, it being at the same time a power equally adequate to select the other. That for which an agent is morally responsible must be an election; that is, a selection with an alternative.”
Winkie Pratney said, “Many sincere men are saying, 'God gave us good laws to keep,' and in the next breath saying, 'we are actually unable to keep them!' If this is true, then God's laws are not good! No law is good that asks the impossible of its subjects. If God demands obedience to impossible laws then God is not just . . . If God demands such obedience under penalty of death, then God is not only unfair, but monstrous. What kind of being would pass laws upon his subjects they are unable to keep, and then condemn them to death for their failure to obey? This is a blasphemy on God's character.”
< Message edited by Diolectic -- 11/6/2009 4:44:42 PM >
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RE: Original sin is in the Bible!!! - 11/6/2009 8:08:01 PM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 292
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Diolectic
Christians are no longer sinners, therefore, according to your logic, Christians should beget Christians.
Actually this is exactly what happens. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but Spirit gives birth to spirit. Christians do beget Christians, but not in the natural way. (1 Corinthians 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.)
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John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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