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Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 1:08:03 PM
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Songbird21
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Joined: 10/4/2009
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I make customized My Little Ponies as a business. Today I got a comission request for a pony with a pentagram on the hoof and and upside down cross on the rump for her symbol. I've never had a pony request that conflicted with my christianity before so I don't know what to do. Should I deny the customer and not make the pony? If I made the pony would I be sinning? Would God forgive me?
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 1:51:19 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4941
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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I wouldn't make the pony if I were in your shoes, but honestly, I don't make decisions based on whether or not God will forgive me. I try not to disobey Him in the first place. If you are convicted against this and you go against God's will, presuming on His grace, you are in direct rebellion to what you know He wants you to do. Willfully sinning is called rebellion.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 1:55:13 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10990
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Ditto what C2G said.
I wouldn't do it as it would be going against my conscience and, I believe, dishonoring to God. Accepting the contract would in a sense be putting my earnings and financial security above God.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 4:49:48 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 9768
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I wouldn't make the pony if I were in your shoes, but honestly, I don't make decisions based on whether or not God will forgive me. I try not to disobey Him in the first place. If you are convicted against this and you go against God's will, presuming on His grace, you are in direct rebellion to what you know He wants you to do. Willfully sinning is called rebellion.
I agree. Tell the people that you won't do this order.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 5:58:54 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4173
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I'm actually not sure you should be customizing a copyrighted toy for profit.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 6:23:45 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1820
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Songbird21
I make customized My Little Ponies as a business. Today I got a comission request for a pony with a pentagram on the hoof and and upside down cross on the rump for her symbol. I've never had a pony request that conflicted with my christianity before so I don't know what to do. Should I deny the customer and not make the pony? If I made the pony would I be sinning? Would God forgive me?
Very interesting question. And if we deny a customer because we do not agree with their world view, do we not work for them? Would we work for anyone?
I guess I see it as an opportunity for witnessing. In fact, you probably couldn't find a better one. I would make the pony as they have requested. I do not see anything sinful in trying to please a person in this respect. Do you know the meaning of a pentagram? And why on the hoof? And what's the significance of an upside down cross on the pony's rump? When you present them with their pony, ask them these questions. . . and sincerely listen to their answers. And then use the opportunity to tell them about Jesus, the One Who some day every knee will bow to and every tongue confess that He is Lord. Tell your client who is under Jesus' feet. Pray for this opportunity. Listen and then speak truth into their darkness. Blessings.
_____________________________
Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 6:56:12 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 John 9-11.
"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11 NIV
"And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him" Colossians 3:17.
"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31
“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light.” Ephesians 5:8
"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12
"Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; " Philippians 2:14-16
I don't believe that we need to hide our lights in order to bring people to God.
"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." 2 Corinthians 6:17
It is good to listen to the still small Voice that tells you to question this type of thing. Always do what you believe the Lord is telling you to do.
"For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death." Psalm 48:14
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 7:38:57 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2745
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm actually not sure you should be customizing a copyrighted toy for profit.
I am wondering about that, too.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 9:13:31 PM
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Songbird21
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm actually not sure you should be customizing a copyrighted toy for profit.
I am wondering about that, too.
Once the copyrighted items have been removed (IE: Hair, symbol, etc etc) it's not really an MLP anymore. That aside, Hasbro actually encourages customs. Lol. They have a "blank" pony on their website you can order to customize.
I think I'm going to refuse to make the pony. I just can't push aside the fact that the very idea of painting those symbols on the pony churns my stomach. Thanks for the input guys. God bless.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/4/2009 9:46:28 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1820
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Songbird21
quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm actually not sure you should be customizing a copyrighted toy for profit.
I am wondering about that, too.
Once the copyrighted items have been removed (IE: Hair, symbol, etc etc) it's not really an MLP anymore. That aside, Hasbro actually encourages customs. Lol. They have a "blank" pony on their website you can order to customize.
I think I'm going to refuse to make the pony. I just can't push aside the fact that the very idea of painting those symbols on the pony churns my stomach. Thanks for the input guys. God bless.
I'm glad you've made a decision you're comfortable with, Songbird21. I didn't say that earlier but you need to go with what you are comfortable with---not what someone else says. You can still use it for an opportunity to share Christ with this individual. They obviously need Him.
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Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/5/2009 1:57:44 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2745
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Songbird21
Once the copyrighted items have been removed (IE: Hair, symbol, etc etc) it's not really an MLP anymore.
It's legal to just remove the copyright images?
quote:
That aside, Hasbro actually encourages customs. Lol. They have a "blank" pony on their website you can order to customize.
For your own use, I am guessing, and not for re-selling?
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rawr.ben
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/10/2009 11:34:12 AM
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car2ner
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I don't think it is the pony that she is selling so much as the service of customization that she is selling. Non the less, it would be a good idea to check on the legality of this activity.
Aside from that, I don't think there is anything wrong with saying I would rather not put on pentagrams, pot leaves, etc.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/12/2009 1:08:23 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Songbird21
I make customized My Little Ponies as a business. Today I got a comission request for a pony with a pentagram on the hoof and and upside down cross on the rump for her symbol. I've never had a pony request that conflicted with my christianity before so I don't know what to do. Should I deny the customer and not make the pony? If I made the pony would I be sinning? Would God forgive me?
Let's see, if you think you are sinning and you go ahead, I think you would have a problem believing God forgave you. That is number one.
Second, you obviously know what pentagrams and upside down crosses are conneceted with. FYI, those who use them take their craft very seriously and would not have to ask if they could use Christian symbols. They just would not as they would find it too offensive.
So, it's good that you have decided not to do the pony.
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/16/2009 1:03:23 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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I am with Consecrated on this one. Don't accept the order.
As to Hasbro making the blank ponies available, if you are ordering more than a couple, then they have to assume that you are customizing them for resale. Apparently they are of the opinion that they are making their $$ on the initial sale.
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Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/16/2009 1:11:18 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
ORIGINAL: Songbird21
I make customized My Little Ponies as a business. Today I got a comission request for a pony with a pentagram on the hoof and and upside down cross on the rump for her symbol. I've never had a pony request that conflicted with my christianity before so I don't know what to do. Should I deny the customer and not make the pony? If I made the pony would I be sinning? Would God forgive me?
Very interesting question. And if we deny a customer because we do not agree with their world view, do we not work for them? Would we work for anyone?
I guess I see it as an opportunity for witnessing. In fact, you probably couldn't find a better one. I would make the pony as they have requested. I do not see anything sinful in trying to please a person in this respect. Do you know the meaning of a pentagram? And why on the hoof? And what's the significance of an upside down cross on the pony's rump? When you present them with their pony, ask them these questions. . . and sincerely listen to their answers. And then use the opportunity to tell them about Jesus, the One Who some day every knee will bow to and every tongue confess that He is Lord. Tell your client who is under Jesus' feet. Pray for this opportunity. Listen and then speak truth into their darkness. Blessings.
I think it is a far better witness to reject the order because of our conviction of faith. We can work for someone whose world view doesn't align with our own world view, but we should not DO WORK that causes us to compromise our own values. This is a principle that is supported in our own countries Laws i.e. we may work for a hospital that performs abortions, but the hospital cannot expect or force us to participate in an abortion if it goes against our deeply held religious beliefs. In this case, it would be fine to fulfill a different order for this same customer if they chose to have that done even though this customer obviously shares a very different world view; however, I would absolutely refuse to fulfill the one that was requested because it requires one to compromise their own values.
< Message edited by benelchi -- 10/16/2009 1:17:20 PM >
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/16/2009 1:17:44 PM
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benelchi
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Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elastic
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm actually not sure you should be customizing a copyrighted toy for profit.
that's what i was going to say. isn't there a sin in this? my little pony is not your idea, and imho, selling them with little changes here and there is just as bad as putting some symbol on it that is anti christian.
quote:
Hasbro actually encourages customs. Lol. They have a "blank" pony on their website you can order to customize.
customize for personal use? or for profit? if it's for personal use, then fine i guess, but i am not familiar with their website and the customizing of their stuff for profit.
Unless she is making the "My Little Ponies" as well as modifying them, there is no violation of Law (or sin) involved because the original copyright holder has already received their share of the profit when the "My Little Pony" was purchased before being modified. This is no different than the huge market in our country for Custom modified cars, vans, etc... I can sell a modified FORD Mustang legally, but I cannot sell as a car not made by Ford and represent it as being a Ford Mustang.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Potential sin as art. Please help - 10/18/2009 2:39:04 AM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Songbird21
I make customized My Little Ponies as a business. Today I got a comission request for a pony with a pentagram on the hoof and and upside down cross on the rump for her symbol. I've never had a pony request that conflicted with my christianity before so I don't know what to do. Should I deny the customer and not make the pony? If I made the pony would I be sinning? Would God forgive me?
C2G gave a great reply. I would say no. And not to cause you any more grief but if you make it plain anywhere in your advertising that you are a Christian business person I would view this as a personal attack. It might just be the foolishness of some lost youth but it certainly is a confrontation by the enemy. Is money that important that you would use your gifts to glorify satan? It seems pretty clear to me.
Now I do want to engage all in the thread though in this next paragraph. Some of the earliest persecutions of Christians had their origins in marketplace disputes. The early Christians did better in the marketplac eoften because they were honest and people knew they would get a fair deal. Those who were losing out in business because of it, in more than a few places understood what the Christians weakness was, they would not worship the emperor. So once they found out their oh so honest competition in the fruit business was Christian they would accuse them before the consul of being unwilling to worship the emperor. They would get called in and expected to offer incense to the emperor and would refuse. Although what you are saying here may not be of the same nature, understand that it might be very personal. You all may recall this photographer in Arizona who refused to takes pictures of a gay marriage. Well that is it's own thing, but did that gay couple target that photographer? That brings a whole other slant to where we are at as a nation.
So to the Op I say, in my opinion, I would refuse the work, which is your right under law in most states to pick the jobs you choose to do, you should not have to state a reason.
God bless
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