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Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 10:14:06 AM
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45degreeN
Posts: 673
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Dr Dobson and other figures from the religious right have come out against McCain pointing out his many divorces and positions on several issue like gays and abortion. McCain himself has so many different positions which he has changed over the years on fiscal issues the economic conservatives are very unhappy with him also.
Is it possible that McCain will go down as the second Arizona senator to get blown away in this election cycle? The first being Goldwater.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 11:07:50 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4626
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From: Oklahoma
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I think that the conservatives will end up voting and voting big for McCain, not because they think he is great, but that he is the lessor of two evils.
There is just no way I could vote for Clinton or Obama, nor is their anyway I could not vote.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 11:54:25 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3315
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Well with respect, this is our faith, what we believe, what we are at the core. That is why we cannot seperate the two. How are we expected to flip from the Spirit to the flesh and to the world values. That would in my opinion be a hypocrite. Kind of like Judus who betrayed the Lord Jesus, because he wanted the over throw of the Roman Empire. Jesus and following him is first to us, or maybe I will say the exzample as ( me). I just cannot do,or, vote for anything or person that does support abortion, or gay marriage. Like my sig, says. Do not vote for anyone, who has views, you do not want your children to emulate. It is a stamp of approval in childrens eyes to do such things when parents vote for canidates that believe this way. My life first is to follow Jesus, and the unchurched, well, maybe they have to see things different.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
Dr Dobson and other figures from the religious right have come out against McCain pointing out his many divorces and positions on several issue like gays and abortion. McCain himself has so many different positions which he has changed over the years on fiscal issues the economic conservatives are very unhappy with him also.
IMO the greatest tragedy of the religious right is that they have reduced Christianity to a political party whose main concern are overturning Roe v. Wade and keeping gays from getting civil rights. To the un-churched, the religious right has as much credibility as Ralph Nader or Ron Paul and their followers.
As for McCain or any other politician having different viewpoints over the years, I'm amazed that people are surprized by this. Do you have the same views that you had 10 or 20 or even 5 years ago? I know very few people who do not adapt their views as they grow, mature or simply become more informed about the things they used to believe were true (or not true). I would be very suspect of any politician who still holds the same views they had 20 or 30 years ago.
It's ridiculous to think that the deception and corruption of the republican party is any different than the deception and corruption of the democratic parties. The only difference is their choice of issues to exploit for political gain. The republican "grape juice" is no different than the democratic "grape juice".
The reason why the early church was able to shape and influence their world in such a life changing way was NOT through their involvement in politics but rather throught their avoidance of it. Can you imagine where you and I would be if Peter and Paul tried to change lives through the politics of the Roman Empire instead of preaching and teaching the word from town to town?
Perhaps if we followed the example of the early church, we wouldn't need to place our faith in a political party to do what only God can. 
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 12:52:36 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 521
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: online
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Do you really want to send a message to both parties this year? Do want them to understand that Christians aren't just mindless sheep to be courted for our votes and then turned away the moment they get into office?
Then here's a hint. Vote independant.
Before anyone says that it would be a waste of a vote you need to realize that if we ALL voted independant then it would send a very clear message that we are not to be taken lightly. If enough people were elected that didn't belong to either party then there'd be a huge paradigm shift in how politics works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_candidates,_2008
Think outside the box and send a message that will never be forgotten.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 1:01:50 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 242
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quote:
Kind of like Judus who betrayed the Lord Jesus, because he wanted the over throw of the Roman Empire.
This is exactly my point. Judas wanted to bring about the kingdom of God by overthrowing the Roman Empire. His very betrayal of Jesus in order to bring about "his" ideal political system is what I see the religious right trying to do today. God never intended for us to live in a man-made "theocracy".
If we want to stop abortions, then we should talk with our daughters and sisters and their friends about the importance of not engaging in sexual behavior before they marry and of the importance of human life. We should be the first to support crisis pregnancy centers and to provide financial and parental support to those in our communities who made sinful choices and now are faced with an unwanted pregnancy.
If we want to protect the "sanctity" of marriage, Christians should lead the way by keeping THEIR marriages together and not joining the rest of the population where over 60% of marriages end up in divorce and where there are more "couples" living together in sin than there are couples who are married. When evangelical marriages have a success rate of about 50% it's rather difficult to believe the claim that they believe marriage to be "sacred". I've known many divorced people in my lifetime and not a single one has divorced because a gay couple was playing house in their neighborhood.
I believe Christians CAN have an enormous influence on their communities if the "church" would go back to being salt and light through their EXAMPLE (how they live out their faith) rather than through their speech. With the holy spirit's help, we CAN turn our society toward God, but it will NEVER happen through our political system.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 1:54:41 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3523
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I think that the conservatives will end up voting and voting big for McCain, not because they think he is great, but that he is the lessor of two evils.
Dr. Irrelevant notwithstanding, I agree with you RC.
_____________________________
Wer weiß, was Übel im Herzen der Männer lauert? Nur der Schatten weiß. Giants 17 Patriots 14.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 2:33:48 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4626
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Do you really want to send a message to both parties this year? Do want them to understand that Christians aren't just mindless sheep to be courted for our votes and then turned away the moment they get into office?
Then here's a hint. Vote independant.
Ah yes another liberal in hiding trying to sway Republican and conservative votes.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 2:51:38 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 521
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Do you really want to send a message to both parties this year? Do want them to understand that Christians aren't just mindless sheep to be courted for our votes and then turned away the moment they get into office?
Then here's a hint. Vote independant.
Ah yes another liberal in hiding trying to sway Republican and conservative votes.
Thanks
RC
Ah yes another conservative lying about someone when they can't take the truth.
See I can play that game too. ;)
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 7:40:44 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 147
Joined: 2/12/2008
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Evangel70, I couldn't agree with you more! You don't change things from the outside in, you change them from the inside out.
When Peter and John started preaching the gospel they went to the temple but not to tell the priests, the Pharisees, the Sadducees that they were wrong but rather to proclaim the truth for all to hear so that they could make the right choice. They did it by preaching the truth.
Same thing goes for today. Even if Roe v Wade was overturned (highly unlikely by the way) do you really think that would stop abortions? If you recall abortions were going on long before they became legal. No the way you change society is by change the minds of the people around you, in your community. You do this by lovingly presenting the truth and allow them to make the right choice.
Now when it comes to politics and the presidency I believe the best thing to do is to vote for the person who will do the best for the country, who ever that may be. Sometimes this means voting for the person who will do the least amount of damage.
As far as I can tell the Democrats want to increase taxes but any economics expert will tell you that when a society is headed for or in a recession tax increases only serve to make the recession worse.
Also lets take a look at how democrats run things. They have been in control of the congress for the last year and what has happened in this last year? Unemployment has risen, the stock market has fallen, the housing market has collapsed and then there was the sub prime mortgage fiasco. People want to try and blame Bush for all this but when it comes down to it Congress is responsible for a lot more than people like to admit.
And voting independent doesn't send a message to anyone. Both parties already know that Conservatives are not happy this election year but they don't give a rat's behind. If all Conservatives vote independent it would guarantee a Democratic victory.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/5/2008 11:00:38 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 270
Joined: 4/15/2005
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Evangel70 wrote:
quote:
IMO the greatest tragedy of the religious right is that they have reduced Christianity to a political party whose main concern are overturning Roe v. Wade and keeping gays from getting civil rights. To the un-churched, the religious right has as much credibility as Ralph Nader or Ron Paul and their followers.
Lots of truth in those words.
Former Education Secretary and current conservative talk show host William J. Bennett wrote in his book, "The De-Valuing of America", :
"There is much validity to the concerns of many on the "religious right."............Sadly, on some occasions, some of their spokesmen present their views that are unnecessarily narrow and seemingly hostile to those outside the group. I emphasize the word "unnecessarily." Just as we speak differently to our families and to the public, conservative Christians need to appeal to the general moral conscience of most Americans. This does not mean compromising their principles, which the majority of Americans doubtless share. It means only to recognize that in public discourse one of the priorities is to persuade those who don't share your views, and not simply to speak to those with whom you have an affinity."
IMO, "persuading" is not questioning the Christianity of anyone who votes democratic, accusing democrats of being "baby murderers", and throwing hostile tantrums at anyone who disagrees with you. And that's how fellow Christians are treated. The "un-churched" are simply dismissed and ignored. Personally, I don't think a lot of Christians are interested in persuading others at all. I think all they want to do is stand on their pedestals and beat their chests and talk about how much righter with God they are because they vote republican. They're not looking to change people's minds, they're looking for "amens" from others of "like mind". And at the same time, they unmercilessly, dispassionately pounce on anyone who doesn't support their candidate.
- Julius
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 12:39:42 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3315
Joined: 4/11/2005
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We are the body of Christ, I mean why does everyone, think all fellow brothers and sisters are phoneys? This I am sure offends the Lord Jesus.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 12:51:07 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 741
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 45degreeN
Dr Dobson and other figures from the religious right have come out against McCain pointing out his many divorces and positions on several issue like gays and abortion. McCain himself has so many different positions which he has changed over the years on fiscal issues the economic conservatives are very unhappy with him also.
Is it possible that McCain will go down as the second Arizona senator to get blown away in this election cycle? The first being Goldwater.
45degreeN and 180 degrees wrong
McCain has a very fine pro-life voting record on abortion. It is as pro-life as the Democrat's candidates are pro-death.
The primary disagreement he has with pro-lifers is with embryonic stem cell research. McCain, like BHO and HRC, wants to fund human experimentation by destroying living human beings. This is not abortion, but it is a related life issue.
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 1:43:02 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 521
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: 45degreeN
Dr Dobson and other figures from the religious right have come out against McCain pointing out his many divorces and positions on several issue like gays and abortion. McCain himself has so many different positions which he has changed over the years on fiscal issues the economic conservatives are very unhappy with him also.
Is it possible that McCain will go down as the second Arizona senator to get blown away in this election cycle? The first being Goldwater.
45degreeN and 180 degrees wrong
McCain has a very fine pro-life voting record on abortion. It is as pro-life as the Democrat's candidates are pro-death.
The primary disagreement he has with pro-lifers is with embryonic stem cell research. McCain, like BHO and HRC, wants to fund human experimentation by destroying living human beings. This is not abortion, but it is a related life issue.
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
Dr. Dobson does have the right to say he doesn't want to vote for McCain for any number of reasons. Embryonic Stem Cell research seems like a pretty good one to me.
Again I point out that there's more than the just the republicans and democrats. Investigate the third and indenpendent candidates. Maybe one of them will be more along the lines of who you're looking to vote for. That's certainly what I'll be doing.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 7:47:55 PM
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relady
Posts: 908
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Also lets take a look at how democrats run things. They have been in control of the congress for the last year and what has happened in this last year? Unemployment has risen, the stock market has fallen, the housing market has collapsed and then there was the sub prime mortgage fiasco. People want to try and blame Bush for all this but when it comes down to it Congress is responsible for a lot more than people like to admit.
Firstly, the democrats do not have enough of a majority to PUSH through anything on their own. It is going to take a decade to undo a lot of the damage that's been done over the last 12 years. Can you explain exactly how all these things you mention are the responsibility of Congress? Please, please elaborate.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 8:29:43 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 660
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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quote:
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
Ljmac,
A Christian should not be worried what color child Mcain adopted. the key word being CHILD........ are you mad that he did it?
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 10:07:07 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3315
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Now Mrs. Tracy, the poster did not say that. aHHHHh you and me, have that attitude thing (LOL). I know it is hard when you and I are always right, and others  have a different view, but. I keep thinking about myself, and my onery ways and think in the word what the Bible says "The "Lord loves a quite and kind spirit in a woman. big sigh, help me too. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
Ljmac,
A Christian should not be worried what color child Mcain adopted. the key word being CHILD........ are you mad that he did it?
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 4/6/2008 10:15:00 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 10:15:58 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 660
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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quote:
Now Mrs. Tracy, the poster did not say that. aHHHHh you and me, have that attitude thing (LOL). I know it is hard when you and I are always right, and others have a different view, but. I keep thinking about myself, and my onery ways and think in the word what the Bible says t"The "Lord loves a quite and kind spirit in a woman. big sigh, help me too.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
Ljmac,
A Christian should not be worried what color child Mcain adopted. the key word being CHILD........ are you mad that he did it?
Light,
Your right!!  Whew. That jumped at me. Blacker than BHO.
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 10:21:03 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3315
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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check me too, I am a meanie sometimes, well alot. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Now Mrs. Tracy, the poster did not say that. aHHHHh you and me, have that attitude thing (LOL). I know it is hard when you and I are always right, and others have a different view, but. I keep thinking about myself, and my onery ways and think in the word what the Bible says t"The "Lord loves a quite and kind spirit in a woman. big sigh, help me too.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
Ljmac,
A Christian should not be worried what color child Mcain adopted. the key word being CHILD........ are you mad that he did it?
Light,
Your right!! Whew. That jumped at me. Blacker than BHO.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/6/2008 11:28:29 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 741
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Personally, he has NOT had "many divorces." He's had one. He also has at least three adopted children. One of them is blacker than BHO.
Ljmac,
A Christian should not be worried what color child Mcain adopted. the key word being CHILD........ are you mad that he did it?
I gave no indication that I was worried about it. Try to keep such uncharitable thoughts to yourself.
Of course I'm not mad that he adopted a CHILD. In fact, he adopted at least three CHILDREN. An even casual reader of my post would see clearly that I was using his adoptive children as an illustration of his strength of character, as opposed to the previous post that was attempting to smear him.
I purposely referred to his youngest child's appearance to add further to his reputation. When someone adopts a child that doesn't even share their skin color, they will be stared at, asked idiotic questions, and have their family structure questioned even by strangers. That will happen to parents and child. McCain didn't let those things deter him and that says a lot of good about him.
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RE: Republicans shattered this year - 4/7/2008 8:56:42 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1813
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I think that the conservatives will end up voting and voting big for McCain, not because they think he is great, but that he is the lessor of two evils.
There is just no way I could vote for Clinton or Obama, nor is their anyway I could not vote.
Thanks
RC
Yep, I agree.
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