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The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in American History
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The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in American H... - 9/22/2009 6:42:13 PM
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Digrieze
Posts: 99
Joined: 8/26/2006
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Question for everyone:
I have recently finished carefully reading and comparing facsimile reprintings of the Geneva Bible of 1560 and King James Version of 1611. I am finding several interesting paralels with the writings of the founding fathers of the United States of America (in fact, the biblical quotes seem closer to the Geneva than the KJV). I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by this since the Geneva was the original protestant bible brought by the settlers, and the KJV was only introduced later.
Does anyone know of any specific acaademic work that has been done on the influence of these versions of the Bible on the early colonies? All I can find are generalities that either argue for a judeo-christian influence or against it in general, not a specific look at the documents used in worship.
Any input would be appreciated.
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 9/25/2009 12:57:10 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Digrieze
Question for everyone:
I have recently finished carefully reading and comparing facsimile reprintings of the Geneva Bible of 1560 and King James Version of 1611. I am finding several interesting paralels with the writings of the founding fathers of the United States of America (in fact, the biblical quotes seem closer to the Geneva than the KJV). I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by this since the Geneva was the original protestant bible brought by the settlers, and the KJV was only introduced later.
Does anyone know of any specific acaademic work that has been done on the influence of these versions of the Bible on the early colonies? All I can find are generalities that either argue for a judeo-christian influence or against it in general, not a specific look at the documents used in worship.
Any input would be appreciated.
There is a little bit of information in the book "The challenge of Bible Translation" by Glen G. Scorgie (and others), but this is only incidental and not the primary focus of this book.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 9/29/2009 9:27:30 PM
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Digrieze
Posts: 99
Joined: 8/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BibleRick
Aloha,
Where,
If I may ask,
did you get the Text of the Geneva and King James 1611 Versions?
Hendrickson publishers has produced affordable facsimile reproductions of original copies of many original bible texts (including Tyndales new testament, if you're interested). Although versions of these texts are available online they generally do not include the marginal notes and alternate translations and references. Also, many of these texts have been "modernized" at points for readability, it is true that we do not speak the same language as the people of those times, and sometimes the differences are subtle enough to be deceptive.
In my personal opinion Hendrickson has done the christian scholar a great service by making these historic texts available to us all instead of to the select elite as they have been in the past.
Here is a link to Hendrickson Publishers:
http://www.hendrickson.com/
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/11/2009 12:07:49 AM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
Joined: 10/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Digrieze
Does anyone know of any specific acaademic work that has been done on the influence of these versions of the Bible on the early colonies? All I can find are generalities that either argue for a judeo-christian influence or against it in general, not a specific look at the documents used in worship.
Any input would be appreciated.
The first English Bible brought to the New World was the Geneva Bible (1591 edition). As the Pilgrims fled persecution in England, they brought the Geneva Bible with them. For that reason, it is often referred to as the "Pilgrims Bible." It was the Bible of the Puritans as well.
Since the Geneva Bible helped to shape the colonies that would eventually become America, it doesn't surprise me that key historical figures in America's early history quote often from it.
-Intrepidus
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/24/2009 5:21:00 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3855
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Is this history of it true?
http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/igb.htm
quote:
For the last three centuries Protestants have fancied themselves the heirs of the Reformation, the Puritans, the Calvinists, and the Pilgrims who landed at Plymouth Rock. This assumption is one of history's greatest ironies. Today's Protestants laboring under that assumption use the King James Bible. Most of the newer Bibles such as the Revised Standard Version are simply updates of the King James.
The irony is that none of the groups named in the preceding paragraph used a King James Bible nor would they have used it if it had been given to them free. The Bible in use by those groups until it went out of print in 1644, was the Geneva Bible. The first Geneva Bible, both Old and New Testaments, was first published in English in 1560 in what is now Geneva, Switzerland,* William Shakespeare, John Bunyan, John Milton, the Pilgrims who landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620, and other luminaries of that era used the Geneva Bible exclusively.
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/24/2009 11:31:30 AM
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Digrieze
Posts: 99
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Is this history of it true?
http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/igb.htm
In a word - no. This history is a joke, but sadly many will blindly believe it because they read it somewhere on the internet. Aside from the inflamatory political rhetoric and slanders against King James (please read up on him in a reliable work, not from someone with a blatant agenda like this), the statement that the charasmatic movement started in 1730 should be a clue about how clueless this author is (they're only off by a century).
The truth is the Geneva bible was a good translation and pioneered several inovations, like verse markings, but by the time of King James it was time for a new translation. If you need to find out why get a copy of the translators notes from the original 1611 KJV. They explain it quite well and honestly set the standard for excellence in tranlation until this day. You'll find the translators of our best versions like the NASB and ESV followed their footsteps. You won't find it in a current KJV (sadly, but once you read it you'll understand why) but you can get a copy in a reprint or the internet (but take care there).
Actually the political edge of it does deserve a rightful and ACCURATE mention in that history (just not the one above). During this period the Bible was often used as a means of attacking ones' political enemies, either by publishing the portions that supported you and leaving out anything that supported your enimies positions, or by inflamitory interpretations. The Geneva Bibles' notes can be only considered as vehimently anticatholic and therefore would never serve as a Bible useful in ALL churches in a nation. (please note, the Scripture may be infallible and inerrant, the notes ARE NOT!) The Geneva worked fine in small groups like geneva and the colonies where the culture used one Bible and worshiped in one manner under one religious group. It never would have worked in England, particularly with the coming wave of religious liberty. The relative neutrality of the KJV was NOT accidental. It was to be a version for all the people.
Here is a good synopsis of the Geneva Bible, minus the slanders and ridiculously made up dates (charasmatic movement in 1730???, you gotta be kidding).
A Historical Report on the Geneva Bible
And here is a good general review of the history of the English Bible.
English Bible History
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/24/2009 1:05:17 PM
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rlj
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I had never heard of the Geneva Bible until this thread and it caught my interest.
The Apocrypha is interesting to learn of to. I never had a problem with it for years and I used to have a New Jerusalem Bible which I liked (I'm not Catholic) and I consider the Apocrypha like notes and simply something that adds to it though not in the same way as the other 66 books.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/24/2009 1:34:08 PM
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Digrieze
Posts: 99
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Although we"re risking going off topic you're not far off the understanding of the reformers. It's amazing how many people are convinced the Apocrypha was never in the bible, even though it was never officialy removed from the KJV until the 1890s. Most of what is taught about angels came from there, and even many well known phrases in the American english vocabulary like "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" come from books like Tobit.
We're only 100 or so years into the "no apocrypha" versions, so it"ll be interesting to see how things work out At a minimum it shows that the translators of the Geneva, original KJV, and other pre 1800s version had a greater respect for the readers of their work and the readers understanding of the doctrine of inspiration than do current publishers.
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/24/2009 2:41:52 PM
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rcjames
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The KJV did not outdo and outlast the Geneva Bible because the KJV is perfect and there were flaws in the Geneva as the KJV is largely plaguarized from the Geneva.
It is because the KJV was printed in smaller and more condensed type (smaller bible) and easier to tote around than the Geneva.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 10/24/2009 2:48:58 PM >
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The Geneva Bible and Original KJV of 1611 in Americ... - 10/24/2009 3:17:36 PM
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Digrieze
Posts: 99
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
The KJV did not outdo and outlast the Geneva Bible because the KJV is perfect and there were flaws in the Geneva as the KJV is largely plaguarized from the Geneva.
It is because the KJV was printed in smaller and more condensed type (smaller bible) and easier to tote around than the Geneva.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
Actually, It can be argued the KJV is a much improved translation. The English language had undergone major changes in the 1500s that quickly outdated the 1560 Geneva (and caused several later revisions of the Geneva). The KJV of 1611 was continually updated through 9 revisions, this kept it much more current with the rapidly changing language.
One of the great things about the English language is its' volitility, when we invent something we can just make up a word for it without getting it approved by comittee. Unfortunatly, one of the worst things about the english language is its' volitility, for example, many years ago I would refer to a happy-go-lucky person as "gay", obviously I would no longer use that word that way (too much confusion with the popular usage).
As to size, one of the earliest "pocket bibles" was commisioned by Thomas Cramner and issued to his soldiers to carry into the field with them. The translation used was the Geneva (minus notes).
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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