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The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/9/2009 11:05:17 PM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
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Here is an excerpt from a prophecy: May the brethren judge it.
Sons of Jeremiah
What comes from effort? A word from the Lord?
{Disclaimer: I leave it to the reader to prayerfully judge weather this is from the Lord or not. Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong, just as it allows for pastors to be adulterers and yet to find forgiveness if they repent (though perhaps not another pastorate.) If this word comes to pass may it be an encouragement to all who find it, and if not may the wickedness of my heart in seeing such harm be forgiven me.}
Thus sayeth the Lord, the Maker.
When America was young she carried with her into her new land My word and a hope for a world more like the one I intended in the beginning. Then over time she gave up my words. So I revived her, not once but three times and even four. Each time her children turned and became greater sinners than their fathers had been. Now what should I do with a nation that lays claim to My Name but will not turn from it's wickedness, who teaches the whole world that there is more power in death than in the living God? I will strike the United States with an outstretched hand, with blows so severe and extraordinary that the whole world will tremble as her foundations are shattered.
They go about in the streets seeking bread but there is none.
They hide themselves in the dark from the marauders but there is no safety.
They are like walking corpses with festering wounds that cannot heal.
They are mourned over by the nations whose hope has now perished.
No nation shall ever again exalt itself as this one has and choose indifference and luxury over the fear of the Lord. No nation shall ever again lay claim to My Name and so defile it by it's secret sins and it's open arrogance. What can be gained by the efforts of the wicked? Am I not the Lord of all? How long shall a nation forget God and go unpunished?
The time draws near to fulfill all My promises and the vines of the earth shall be reaped for their fruit is quickly ripening. A people called by My Name shall walk humbly with their God and they shall give the sacrifice of praise and ease the yoke of the oppressor. So it will not be turned back; from the east and from the west I will bring it, a fire and a drought, a plague and a raging wind, and an army of foreigners like a flood that you do not notice until the foundations are eroded.
Another fire shall burn in many places, a fire that cannot be extinguished as I pour out my Spirit upon those whom I have called and chosen. Be strong in the midst of the trial My people, My remnant in America, and I will give you the Crown of Life. Stand together in Me and you will be able to stand. Arise shine!
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/10/2009 12:10:29 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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I suppose there might be some truth in this which makes it sound as if it has real meaning but I sincerely doubt that it is a revelation from God.
Anyone who reads prophecy could proclaim a similar fate for America but also for the rest of the world and likely not be far from the truth. We know how the events of the end times will change the world as we know it.
In Messiah...
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/10/2009 3:47:42 PM
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yohannan
Posts: 265
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline
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Aside from the so called disclaimer; which is written that you will not listen to those who bear false witness concerning their neighbors or if one has a word from Me and it does not come to pass these are those that were 'tolerated' by the kings of Israel for they were ineffective and there power was not from God is written; Prophecy in The Gospel advancement was to be weighed by others in The Kingdom as in the Agents of The Kingdom to be implemented as The Will of God determines. We were to hold on to what is good for Only God is Good.
I believe that this is Testimony in accordance with what was written in Jeremiah as current Living and Active declaration affirmation of what was to come.
quote:
ORIGINAL: agapeflight
Here is an excerpt from a prophecy: May the brethren judge it.
Sons of Jeremiah
What comes from effort? A word from the Lord?
{Disclaimer: I leave it to the reader to prayerfully judge weather this is from the Lord or not. Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong, just as it allows for pastors to be adulterers and yet to find forgiveness if they repent (though perhaps not another pastorate.) If this word comes to pass may it be an encouragement to all who find it, and if not may the wickedness of my heart in seeing such harm be forgiven me.}
Thus sayeth the Lord, the Maker.
When America was young she carried with her into her new land My word and a hope for a world more like the one I intended in the beginning. Then over time she gave up my words. So I revived her, not once but three times and even four. Each time her children turned and became greater sinners than their fathers had been. Now what should I do with a nation that lays claim to My Name but will not turn from it's wickedness, who teaches the whole world that there is more power in death than in the living God? I will strike the United States with an outstretched hand, with blows so severe and extraordinary that the whole world will tremble as her foundations are shattered.
They go about in the streets seeking bread but there is none.
They hide themselves in the dark from the marauders but there is no safety.
They are like walking corpses with festering wounds that cannot heal.
They are mourned over by the nations whose hope has now perished.
No nation shall ever again exalt itself as this one has and choose indifference and luxury over the fear of the Lord. No nation shall ever again lay claim to My Name and so defile it by it's secret sins and it's open arrogance. What can be gained by the efforts of the wicked? Am I not the Lord of all? How long shall a nation forget God and go unpunished?
The time draws near to fulfill all My promises and the vines of the earth shall be reaped for their fruit is quickly ripening. A people called by My Name shall walk humbly with their God and they shall give the sacrifice of praise and ease the yoke of the oppressor. So it will not be turned back; from the east and from the west I will bring it, a fire and a drought, a plague and a raging wind, and an army of foreigners like a flood that you do not notice until the foundations are eroded.
Another fire shall burn in many places, a fire that cannot be extinguished as I pour out my Spirit upon those whom I have called and chosen. Be strong in the midst of the trial My people, My remnant in America, and I will give you the Crown of Life. Stand together in Me and you will be able to stand. Arise shine!
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/10/2009 4:08:31 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong...
The disclaimer is wrong and shows, at best, ignorance of scripture. To use the phrase, "Thus sayeth the Lord, the Maker" requires the words of the person to be 100% without error.
The author is a flake and not to be trusted.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/13/2009 8:07:21 AM
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justpassinby
Posts: 785
Joined: 3/16/2009
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These prophecies are general--- anyone can predict something like this that sounds similar to biblical predictions.
I get this feeling that the "prophet" does not know the origin or the genealogies of the original colonists to America. He seems to link America with God's people spiritually only, but I am merely judging this based on context. I'd have to see more to be sure.
_____________________________
Link to Genealogy of Christ
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/13/2009 7:06:34 PM
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yohannan
Posts: 265
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong...
The disclaimer is wrong and shows, at best, ignorance of scripture. To use the phrase, "Thus sayeth the Lord, the Maker" requires the words of the person to be 100% without error.
The author is a flake and not to be trusted.
Also, The Apostle Admonishes us that if anyone speaks they should do it as though speaking God's Words and that peoples will have to give account for every stray word spoken is The Gospel. The Lord commends those who test Prophets and Overseers Ministries by Scripture for these are as the Bereans whom Paul commended publicly for their persistence in testing His Message by faith through Scriptural discernment in order to show one's self approved in approving what is sound practice by faith and to not look down on anyone but by prayer and petition for neighbors in the struggles because these also have angelic ministering spirits sent to guide them by The Kingdom of God. The Spirit takes from what is of Jesus and makes it known to us that we may know The Father The True God and Messiah whom He Sanctified and Sent into the world to fulfill and establish The New Covenant of The Kingdom.
Thus, Kingdom Testimony was that one should do away with all sorts of uncleanness of speech and that we were made to become rich in all sorts of wisdoms and in words and deeds through the grace and power that God has given each. For peoples are fading in their season as the flowers planted beautifully and wonderfully in The Garden and Solomon in all of his wealth and splendor and wisdom had not the wealth of these for wisdom is proved right by all of God's children and The Lord has hidden the secrets of The Kingdom from the wise for it is given to his little children as His Good Pleasure in taking heart.
< Message edited by yohannan -- 9/14/2009 2:21:46 AM >
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/13/2009 8:14:24 PM
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ctpruitt
Posts: 394
Joined: 4/25/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapeflight
Here is an excerpt from a prophecy: May the brethren judge it.
Sons of Jeremiah
What comes from effort? A word from the Lord?
{Disclaimer: I leave it to the reader to prayerfully judge weather this is from the Lord or not. Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong, just as it allows for pastors to be adulterers and yet to find forgiveness if they repent (though perhaps not another pastorate.) If this word comes to pass may it be an encouragement to all who find it, and if not may the wickedness of my heart in seeing such harm be forgiven me.}
Thus sayeth the Lord, the Maker.
When America was young she carried with her into her new land My word and a hope for a world more like the one I intended in the beginning. Then over time she gave up my words. So I revived her, not once but three times and even four. Each time her children turned and became greater sinners than their fathers had been. Now what should I do with a nation that lays claim to My Name but will not turn from it's wickedness, who teaches the whole world that there is more power in death than in the living God? I will strike the United States with an outstretched hand, with blows so severe and extraordinary that the whole world will tremble as her foundations are shattered.
They go about in the streets seeking bread but there is none.
They hide themselves in the dark from the marauders but there is no safety.
They are like walking corpses with festering wounds that cannot heal.
They are mourned over by the nations whose hope has now perished.
No nation shall ever again exalt itself as this one has and choose indifference and luxury over the fear of the Lord. No nation shall ever again lay claim to My Name and so defile it by it's secret sins and it's open arrogance. What can be gained by the efforts of the wicked? Am I not the Lord of all? How long shall a nation forget God and go unpunished?
The time draws near to fulfill all My promises and the vines of the earth shall be reaped for their fruit is quickly ripening. A people called by My Name shall walk humbly with their God and they shall give the sacrifice of praise and ease the yoke of the oppressor. So it will not be turned back; from the east and from the west I will bring it, a fire and a drought, a plague and a raging wind, and an army of foreigners like a flood that you do not notice until the foundations are eroded.
Another fire shall burn in many places, a fire that cannot be extinguished as I pour out my Spirit upon those whom I have called and chosen. Be strong in the midst of the trial My people, My remnant in America, and I will give you the Crown of Life. Stand together in Me and you will be able to stand. Arise shine!
Where do people get this stuff?
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 9/14/2009 7:02:27 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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Not!!!
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 10/9/2009 4:52:14 PM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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I am hoping that you gentlemen actually attend churches where prophecy is considered to be 'for our time.' Otherwise you should probably state that upfront so we all know that it is a false prophecy because you or your pastor guarantee us that prophecy ceased in the first century.
As far as I can tell it is a real prophecy and not the only one that one can find about America. Also, it says specifically in 1 Corinthians 14:29 'And let two or three prophets speak, and let others pass judgment.'
Meaning the words the prophets bring forth are intended to be discerned by the others who have that gift so that the Body is not deceived by false prophecy. Prophets who recognize this do not walk around fearing for their lives rather they try to offer sincere and accountible words for the edifying and building up of the body.
Note also 1 Corinthians 14:32 'and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets' which again hints at this accountibility, needed because of the flesh and the enemy, and to our own ability as Christian prophets to choose when to speak a word so that the service might proceed in orderly fashion. I have personally at times not given a word and seen others in the congrgegation step out and give basically the same message using their own words. The words of prophets are not put forth in specific vernacular but rather the Holy Spirit ensures the meaning reaches those who seek Him even if I may use the term 'use guys' and my brother may use the term 'you guys.' There is a boundary line concerning the words that are appropriate but clearly speaking through human vessels the Lord does not expect precise english grammar across all churches and nations
The only way that 1 Corinthians 14 does not support prophetic ministry which may at times miss the mark is if one argues that none of the gifts operate today, and that of course is nothing but filling in details that do not exist. Arguing as it were by saying, 'tongues dropped off big time after the first 30 years of the church and have been unherd of for 19 centuries so this Pentecostal thing must be witchcraft, aint that right Jeb!'
I commend you to the Lord for your sincerity but I strongly disagree with your position on the matter as I believe an honest reading of Scripture does also. So, since taking it beyond this would probably violate the terms of service I have to leave it up to the Spirit to guide us all into that direction which He sees fit.
God bless.
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 10/9/2009 9:42:37 PM
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lw9
Posts: 879
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
agapeflight: Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong
Total nonsense. Biblical prophecy is really, really simple: God speaks, the prophet repeats exactly what God has said. That's it. It's not a learning process, it's not based on personal feelings and experiences, and it can't be practiced and built up like a career. If someone is truly hearing from God, their words will be true, period. God isn't a liar, and He doesn't spread misinformation and falsehoods. Anyone who claims to have a 'word' from God yet fails the accuracy test never heard from God in the first place. They are liars and they are false.
God has never, ever lowered or changed His standards for a prophet. There is absolutely no justification or loopholes in the New Testament for mistakes and errors in God's prophetic word. Justification for error is based on wishful thinking, false theology, and the need to prop up and defend false teachers and 'prophets'.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 10/9/2009 9:55:59 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 10/10/2009 12:59:35 AM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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Which sin exactly do you think Jesus did not die for?
Was it Peter's rejection of Christ when the Jewish brothers came to see Paul's Gentile church. Peter certainly was acting false there? Or perhaps Jesus failed to die for Paul when he stood by testifying by God that Stephen deserved to die. Paul was bearing false witness on God's behalf (acting as a false prophet) and for that he should have died.
Grace is bigger than that and that is the point. Saying that a faithful man of God can submit a word to other believers to be judged by them, which is exactly what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14, is not a justification of false prophecy.
Consider the letters to the churches in Revelation and understand that other than Philadelphia all of them were in grave error and the Lord was still rebuking, still admonishing and encouraging and still being the same God He has always been. Only one of those churches is threatened by Him with loss of it's lampstand. If you want to live by the law and claim that prophets never fail, I am sorry but Paul also said in 1 Cor 13:8,9
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part, and we prophecy in part;
Who prophecies in part? The Apostle was including Himself in that. In my opinion, and I have some grounds for that opinion having the Spirit of God myself and knowing the Scriptures well, it is insulting to Christ's work on the cross for anyone to insist that false prophecy is an unforgiveable sin. It seems more like a misunderstanding of the New Covenant and/or convenient rhetoric and dogma. If the emminent Apostle himself says that he prophesied in part, that corroborates what he says in chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians that words and other gifts of the Spirit were intended to be prayed over. That is the difference between OT and NT prophecy, OT prophets had to be right or they died, NT prophets on the other hand are called by the Bible (again 1 Corinthians 14) to submit their words for judgment to others. Those words must not contradict the Bible and so yes they often are words that any student of the bible might say, but they come with the Spirit's blessing which other believers are edified by (1 Cor 14:3).
It is the same thing with tongues which Paul says beg an interpretation and what is that interpretation to be? I mean who would ever even try to interpret tongues in the service if someone said that is'nt God, stone 'em. Let me reiterate that just as I have shown you Scripture confirming it, God does use prophecy today and sometimes prophets miss it. We should not take this lightly but there is grace when we do sin as long as we repent. The fact is that today no single person stands as the mouthpiece of God, nobody is a mediator between the individual and God save Jesus Himself.
James says in James 3:2 'we all stumble in many ways' is it not clear that all of the apostles sinned and that all Christians do stumble in many ways. Not intentionally we hope but we are in no way able to compare ourselves favorably after any amount of time to Jesus' own character and example. Peter stumbled, Paul stumbled, Mark, Barnabas, James admits as much as well, and yet none of them were excommunicated or drummed out by the Lord as false prophets. Grace is not a justification for sin (false prophecy included) but grace does abound to us when we stumble, even prophets. And, I would dare not call a prophet false having missed it on one prophecy alone any more than I would call Peter false for constantly rolling back and forth throughout his Christian life like a bowl of water in an earthquake.
You have to decide whether holiness is about perfection or the love of God and grace through faith. No true Christian ever should intend to sin, and if we are found to have sinned the Spirit seeks to convict us. In fact He tries very hard before hand to keep us on track but sometimes we just don't listen. There are those who think they can know the word of God well enough that if they pay very close attention they will never sin. The problem is that this is only a new form of law in which you substitute knowledge of Christianity for the Jewish Law. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies. The whole point is that by grace are we saved through faith, it is a free gift, and Christians can miss it in giving a prophecy. Prophets are less likely to stumble if they act as Paul suggests in mutual accountibility to the conscience of the entire Body in the sight of God. Then if a word is judged to be wrong the church can take what steps are necessary, which usually means asking them to take a seat for a while, get some prayer, find out why things were off. Rarely does someone' s intent toward the church rise to the level of an Ananias and Saphira moment but it can and we should not forget that.
The true false prophet is so much more ungly than a sincere brother trying to step out in the gifts of the Spirit. Consider 2 Peter chapter 2. In my lifetime I have never, that I am aware of, been in the presence of anyone who would fall under the criteria laid out in that chapter. Have I seen many who come and seem to be true and them stumble again or fall away, yes. Have some of those spoken to me about God things that were not true, yes. But to say they were false prophets, I mean no way. Reverend Moon is a false prophet. The guy who got radically saved 4 weeks ago and now wants to know if the Lord spoke to Him about an affair that is going on in the church, or about who his future wife will be, that person is not a false prophet even if they think Ms. Jody Francis is going to be theirs and it turns out she marries their best friend.
Again let me reiterate that the OT concept of a prophet does not exist in the New Covenant. And yet Paul does speak of prophets in Ephesians 4 and elsewhere suggesting he recognized this function in the ministry, not simply in the local church under a pastor. The only two New Testament figures who will rise close to the OT prophet standard will be the Two Witnesses and even they are said to die in the same city where their Lord was crucified. Ie. they are christian and bound by a law of love under grace and not a law of commandments leading to death for anyone who would try to be justified by them.
God bless.
< Message edited by agapeflight -- 10/10/2009 1:16:35 AM >
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RE: The Sons of Jeremiah - 10/10/2009 1:07:19 AM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
agapeflight: Prophetic ministry under the New Covenant allows for prophets to be wrong
Total nonsense. Biblical prophecy is really, really simple: God speaks, the prophet repeats exactly what God has said. That's it. It's not a learning process, it's not based on personal feelings and experiences, and it can't be practiced and built up like a career. If someone is truly hearing from God, their words will be true, period. God isn't a liar, and He doesn't spread misinformation and falsehoods. Anyone who claims to have a 'word' from God yet fails the accuracy test never heard from God in the first place. They are liars and they are false.
God has never, ever lowered or changed His standards for a prophet. There is absolutely no justification or loopholes in the New Testament for mistakes and errors in God's prophetic word. Justification for error is based on wishful thinking, false theology, and the need to prop up and defend false teachers and 'prophets'.
There is evidence in every book of Scripture of the unique forms of speech used by the various authors. Though they were inspired by God not all passages of Scripture are verbatim dictations from God Himself. It is because of the unique style of especially the New Testament writesr that we are able to feel more confident that for instance first and second peter were written by the same and that John wrote the gospel and the three letters and Revelation.
There are times when God says specifically do not deviate from a pattern, but when it comes to prophecy, just as Paul says the spirit of a prophet is subject to the prophet and a person's vocabulary does not preclude them form being used by God as a prophet.
There is a way of thinking about the bible that falsely insists that every word found in the KJV is exactly the word God told each man to write, but that is really very naive. The original languages allow for many nuances, the only way one knows the difference ultimately is by knowing God Himself. Knowing the Bible as a document is not sufficient, one must know God to discern spiritual truth even though it is hidden in plain sight in the Bible (1 Cor 2:14-16.)
Jesus said, " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6
Knowing the Bible is not enough, we must actually know Jesus personally.
God bless
< Message edited by agapeflight -- 10/10/2009 1:15:19 AM >
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