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What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 2:24:01 PM
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rlj
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I keep hearing that the government now makes us buy certain brands of automobiles.
So if you bought a new car since Jan. 20, please tell us what particular GM vehicle or Chrysler vehicle you were forced to buy.
If some other brand let us know what brand but no need to go into make and model specifics. I'm trying to figure out how far from the Constitution this administration has gone in forcing people to buy cars they don't want.
< Message edited by rlj -- 11/4/2009 2:30:12 PM >
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 2:43:55 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
I keep hearing that the government now makes us buy certain brands of automobiles.
So if you bought a new car since Jan. 20, please tell us what particular GM vehicle or Chrysler vehicle you were forced to buy.
If some other brand let us know what brand but no need to go into make and model specifics. I'm trying to figure out how far from the Constitution this administration has gone in forcing people to buy cars they don't want.
Name someone "forced" to buy a vehicle.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 2:48:41 PM
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rlj
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quote:
Name someone "forced" to buy a vehicle.
I was told in another thread this:
Try again. The Constitution does NOT provide for the federal government to force citizens to buy any sort of product or service
Since it was in a Fox News thread it was called off topic so I took it to here.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 3:18:53 PM
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rcjames
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I have been a life long Chevy customer, with the exception of the Chrysler racing vehicles I used to run at drag races.
Never owned a Ford, the the next vehicle I buy will be a Ford and the next etc.
I will never deal with GMC or Chrysler again.
So yea, I would say I was "Forced" to change brands by the Obama Socialism takeover.
Thanks
RC
edtied for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 11/4/2009 3:25:29 PM >
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 3:35:21 PM
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rlj
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quote:
So yea, I would say I was "Forced" to change brands by the Obama Socialism takeover.
Ok, that brought a chuckle to me. ; ) I've always been a Chevy man as in "I'd rather push a Chevy than drive a Ford" but I honestly have to say that I will look long and hard at Ford next year. I remember laughing at the Ford people about 4 years ago when they were restructuring and their stock was rated near junk bonds. I'm not laughing anymore now that they made it through this economic slump with NO government money.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 4:28:15 PM
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tafkam
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Well, that was my quote that's being twisted, but moving right along....
I've always been a GM buyer, and would dearly love to buy a new Camaro SS (sweet!  )
However, I will not give any of my business to GM until government relinquishes it's control over the company....
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 4:49:51 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Well, that was my quote that's being twisted, but moving right along....
I've always been a GM buyer, and would dearly love to buy a new Camaro SS (sweet! )
However, I will not give any of my business to GM until government relinquishes it's control over the company....
Ditto...........
I've always been a GMC truck fella.
I have a Buick car now.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 6:01:59 PM
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wing2000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Well, that was my quote that's being twisted, but moving right along....
I've always been a GM buyer, and would dearly love to buy a new Camaro SS (sweet! )
However, I will not give any of my business to GM until government relinquishes it's control over the company....
...hmm you mean when GM pays back the billions of dollars it begged from us tax payers..
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 6:36:55 PM
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rlj
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I was a little hasty to. The best dealership I have ever dealt with is a GMC one. I'll go look at them first, and might end up with a used Ford. ; )
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 7:12:48 PM
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rcjames
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There is a video out there of Obama saying that he would personally guarentee the warranty of GM cars.
That's comforting, for we all know that he would not tell a lie.
Thanks
RC
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/4/2009 7:16:09 PM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
There is a video out there of Obama saying that he would personally guarentee the warranty of GM cars.
That's comforting, for we all know that he would not tell a lie.
Thanks
RC
I'm not sure if they went ahead with the warranty or not.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 2:09:03 AM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
However, I will not give any of my business to GM until government relinquishes it's control over the company....
Well, the longer people do that, the longer you will have to wait, so I am not sure that's the best decision to make.
In any case, they're already laying the groundwork to refloat the car companies on the stockmarket. GM I think is a year or two off, after Chrysler, but should happen by 2012. Of course, that won't stop you from claiming that Obama is trying to take over the free market. 
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 7:44:20 AM
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tafkam
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Anybody that can't see that Obama has complete and utter disdain for the free market is delusional. Sorry about that.
Isn't it odd that Ford was the one domestic automaker to show decent profits (heck, ANY profit) last quarter, and they're the one that didn't take ANY governent bailout?
GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to fail and restructure, the way any other company would....the free market always corrects itself if left alone....
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 7:54:33 AM
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rlj
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quote:
Isn't it odd that Ford was the one domestic automaker to show decent profits (heck, ANY profit) last quarter, and they're the one that didn't take ANY governent bailout?
Ford had already slimmed down a few years back. When the CEO's were meeting with the Feds over the bailout the Ford CEO took a good look and listen to what was going on and realized that with the strings attached to the money by the feds, they were in good enough shape to make it without their help.
In other words, he thought exactly what is on your sig line. ; )
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 8:05:05 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to fail and restructure, the way any other company would....the free market always corrects itself if left alone....
But at what cost?
-Dan.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 8:12:45 AM
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tafkam
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quote:
But at what cost?
-Dan.
Bankruptcy would have allowed GM to continue doing business....it's the way a lot of big companies survive in difficult times. Not desirable, by any stretch, but it beats going out of business, and certainly beats having your business dictated by government....
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 8:18:31 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
But at what cost?
-Dan.
Bankruptcy would have allowed GM to continue doing business....it's the way a lot of big companies survive in difficult times. Not desirable, by any stretch, but it beats going out of business, and certainly beats having your business dictated by government....
If it beats having your business dictated by the gov't, why did they take the bailout?
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 9:29:22 AM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
But at what cost?
-Dan.
Bankruptcy would have allowed GM to continue doing business....it's the way a lot of big companies survive in difficult times. Not desirable, by any stretch, but it beats going out of business, and certainly beats having your business dictated by government....
If it beats having your business dictated by the gov't, why did they take the bailout?
-Dan.
Chicago Politics!..................you still don't see?
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/5/2009 10:25:25 PM
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Kerrlaw
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We haven't bought a car since 1989.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/6/2009 11:11:36 AM
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GroupW
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Dude - you're my hero.
For a while, the average age of our fleet was 14 years.
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RE: What Kind of Car Did B0 Make You Buy? - 11/6/2009 11:23:37 AM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to fail and restructure, the way any other company would....the free market always corrects itself if left alone....
In normal times, I would agree with that. There were, however, some unique factors at play that are worthy of consideration.
What would normally happen in bankruptcy:
- Companies in BK are usually in need of significant cash to continue operating, otherwise they wouldn't be in BK.
- Normally, a firm declares bankrupty, and then banks and other financial firms step in to provide "debtor-in-posession" financing that provides cash to keep operating.
- Essentially, those are loans that step to the front of the line and have first dibs on any cash available to repay debt.
- That kind of financing isn't all that terribly risky and pays a good little rate of return. A number of significacnt financial firms love it.
What was different this time:
- There wasn't a bank in the world capable (given the ongoing mortgage crisis) of taking down a loan that big.
- The syndicated loan market was shut down, so banks were having trouble breaking up big deals into smaller multi-lender packages.
- Banks had stopped lending to other banks, so no individual bank could raise that much cash.
- The securitization market was dead, dead, dead. Banks couldn't involve non-bank investors in pieces of the deal.
Basically, there was no cash available that would allow to firms to keep operating.
The only other option other than operating in bankruptcy was a complete liquidation. That would have been bad.
It made no sense to have two major firms liquidate only because the banks weren't in a position to step in. Essentially, the government stepped in as the lender of last resort. That's not an inappropriate role for the government to play when private mechanisms break down.
I had actually predicted this exact outcome on other forums. Given the size of the jobs at stake, the lack of bank funding for DIP financing, and the potential magnitude of the recession, government involvement here was reasonably foreseeable.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 11/6/2009 11:30:35 AM >
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