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Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 2:36:30 PM
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JHerr
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I ask this question because I have been using the NIV version (Student Bible), and while I love it for the inserts and explanations of different things, I have noticed a very large conflict with other version.
I was reading over a thread before at the scripture 1 COR 7:1 was stated. It appeared as follows
1. Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
(NKJV)
In my NIV is appears as so:
1. Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. (NIV)
As you can see, they have a very distinct difference. I love the Study Bible portions of my bible, as they help to break things down for me, but I am suffering a conflict of interest for what it is sharing.
Any one have any advice on a study type bible that would be beneficial to me?
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 3:05:46 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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in this case we are dealing with the problem of euphemisms (issues regarding sex and toilet for example) ... translators can handle the situation differently
1) be literal in their translation and possibly leave us confused
2) formal equivalence: keep the form of the original language in words and grammar but make it understandable in english
3) functional equivalence: try to keep meaning but use English idioms
so we can see that NKJV (and KJV) tried to be literal ... however NIV (and others) decided to use marry which was way off base ... as in that time period, "to touch a woman" meant to have sexual intercouse with them and not marry ... NAB decides to take approach #3 by saying it's better "having no relations with a woman" ... this could be misunderstood as friendly relations so then you have TNIV eliminating the euphenmism completely: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman."
i don't think there's trickery going on with a translation trying to hide the truth, it's just a matter of finding it ... besides for this issue, it seems your NIV study bible has suited you well, perhaps you could pick up another translation to supplement it? personally i would stay away from nkjv that you also quoted as it (and kjv) has issue of being translated from flawed texts (the only greek text available in 1611 was based on late manuscripts that had many mistakes from a thousand years of copying) and removes the cool way kjv had of saying some things ... as to my current preference, i'm not sure ... i'm trying out tniv although unsure about some of how it might handle gender ...
my current plan:
main bible: tniv or gnb
secondary: nrsv (attempted revisions of kjv)
lastly: njb (a bit freer of a translation)
< Message edited by iwillfearnoevil -- 4/16/2009 3:26:58 PM >
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 3:27:03 PM
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JHerr
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OK then, my supplement bible is a KJV, what version would you advise using as a supplement, if you do not prefer the KJV?
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http://vaporzone.blogspot.com/
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 3:29:58 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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jherr - this is just personal preference ... i edited post to put what i'm planning on using ... i am still acquiring these Bibles ... i just took a course on studying the Bible that talked about translations and they basically recommended the following if one is using niv/tniv as main bible then add one or more of these groupings if more reference is desired: nrsv/nasu, gnb/nab, reb/njb
i selected nrsv over nasu as nasu uses a lot of the 'wooden'/awkward kjv language
njb over reb as reb hails from british scholars and thus uses british idioms ...
i've been using kjv as a study bible for a loooong time so it'll be quite a change for me ...
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 3:37:30 PM
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Lapidoth
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It's pretty much personal preference.
My preference is the one I'm studying at the time.
The last time I did the OT, I used "The Jewish Study Bible"
with the KJV along side.
Last time I did the NT, I used the NLT with the KJV along side.
This time going through the NT, I'm using "The Power New Testament"
with the KJV along side.
My real preference is to study in a group that uses different versions
at the same time and speaking up to when one reads different than
the other.
Many of the differences is due to the manuscripts used in translation.
And the difference in whether they use the "literal" word for word,
or the "thought" principle.
The literal method is always harder than the others to understand.
So, IMHO, the one to use is the one that works for you.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 4:01:19 PM
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navyblueret
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The Greek word is 'Aptesthe,' which Strong's says means 'touch.' The word 'marry' is not offered as an option. Paul also, I believe, says that what he says about marrying/touching, is his words, not of Jesus.
In Messiah, His Shalom. Arley
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 4:17:12 PM
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Saved34
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I personally prefer the KJV. My main study Bible is actually Bible exlporer 4. Such an incredible study tool. My trusty old Scofield KJV Bible gets used on bible study nights at church and on sundays. Other than that it pretty much goes untouched. LOL, Computer bibles have ruined me.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/16/2009 6:16:09 PM
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JHerr
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From: Michigan
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Thanks for the input everyone. I guess I will just have to keep collecting bibles and see which ones work best for me.
_____________________________
My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak of my own. John 7:16-17
http://vaporzone.blogspot.com/
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/17/2009 1:47:33 PM
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Jeffriesw
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I use a NKJV mostly with my old KJV, a NASB and a NIV along side when I study.
I also use a Vines dictionary and Strong's concordance for reference.
I also have a really good computer program downloaded also that has multiple versions (6) and you can compare each verse side by side and it also allows you to check each word with an embedded Strong's Concordance & Vines Dictionary and commentary notes from Scofield, MHC and others.
I still mainly prefer the "Real Books" to the computer, but it is handy.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/18/2009 3:19:46 AM
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superpest_99
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Hi there:
I have tried several versions of the Bible but prefer the KJV since I read a lengthy article about how they and the KJV deal with certain themes such as the blood of Christ, His nature, His divinity, His virgin birth etc... which were either treated differently or totally omitted, while other books or chapters were added that apparently were non-canonical. At first, this was a bit confusing to me but I started to follow the method that God, Himself gave us (possibly to counteract the confusion of such versions which He knew would come about) and that is:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Here is the Complete Jewish Bible version of the same verses:
Isa 28:9 Can no one be taught anything? Can no one understand the message? Must one teach barely weaned toddlers, babies just taken from the breast,
Isa 28:10 so that [one has to use nursery rhymes]? — Tzav la-tzav, tzav la-tzav, kav la-kav, kav la-kav z`eir sham, z`eir sham [Precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there].
Isa 28:11 So with stammering lips, in a foreign accent, [Adonai] will speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 He once told this people, "It's time to rest, the exhausted can rest, now you can relax" — but they wouldn't listen.
Isa 28:13 So now the word of Adonai for them comes "precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there," so that when they walk, they stumble backward, and are broken, trapped and captured!
When we use this method of researching principles, rather than just words, we get the bigger picture of what God is telling us in His word. An example of this would be the state of the dead. If you look up all the verses you can find out what happens to us when we die, you get a very clear picture that blows away any misconception that many of us have today, esp. when reading about the thief on the cross beside Jesus. Or with other subjects such as 'new wine' not being alcoholic, or which day is really the Lord's Day (and has always been) Saturday, etc... The reason I prefer the KJV is because it has been gone over with a fine tooth comb, so we know where the alleged discrepancies are. Plus, I like the Strong's Concordance with the Hebrew/Greek dictionaries that cover the KJV meanings. Then I use the Complete Jewish Bible for comparisons, but I also use Bible commentaries, esp. (but not exclusively) those by EG White of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. I read once, that the ancient Hebrew/Jewish leaders would rewrite the scrolls whenever they became too brittle or for other necessary reasons, but were so meticulous, that each line was numbered, and was carefully transcribed onto new scrolls, ergo the expression 'line upon line', most likely. That was probably how the 'scribes' came onto the scene. It seems that if we want to be serious about our Bible studies, we need several tools these days, so, I don't feel like it's too much to have more than one version of the 'Good Book', nor do I frown on computer helps such as eSword, esp. since they are free. God has inspired many people to help us muddle through the obstacles set up by those NOT inspired by Him. Sorry this was so long.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JHerr
Thanks for the input everyone. I guess I will just have to keep collecting bibles and see which ones work best for me.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/18/2009 10:35:31 AM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Preemptive Nudge:
Superpest has brought up a lot of issues that people will want to comment on. However, they would be off topic to this thread.
CLICK HERE for the KJV Only thread.
CLICK HERE for a current thread on the state of the dead after death.
CLICK HERE for the Saturday/Sunday Sabbath discussion.
Thanks!
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Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/18/2009 11:14:30 AM
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dwtramm
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My primary Bible I use for Study is the International Standard Version (ISV). The bible is not complete yet, they have the entire New Testament plus an Old Testament sampler you can buy at amazon and other places like that.
My supplement I'm using right now is the English Standard Version (ESV) Literary Study Bible. The books of the Old Testament that the ISV doesn't have available yet, I read the ESV. I enjoy the Literary Study Bible - it explains what Genre of literature is used, as opposed to theological notes. This has helped me more with keeping things in context, I personally feel.
My other bible I use for a supplement is the New English Translation (NET). Very good translation notes.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/19/2009 4:24:00 PM
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RJR_fan
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Depends on my project of the moment. If I were engaged on the task of reading through the whole Bible in a year, I'd use the KJV. This allows me to share a literary language with people of the last four centuries, to speak the same vernacular, and draw from the same stockpile of idioms and metaphors. It's also the Bible I've done most of my memory work in, and if you think the Bible is worth memorizing, then doing most of your reading in the same translation engraves the words more deeply into your memory grooves.
John Wesley preferred the original languages for his personal devotions, and could quote the Greek NT more accurately than the KJV.
R.J. Rushdoony's father had both the Armenian Bible and the KJV Bible committed to memory, but tended to preach better sermons when preaching in Armenian. (RJR himself read a book a day for 60 years or so, and could find passages of interest in any of them at a moment's notice).
At the moment, I'm studying Turkish, and blogging the adventure as I go. This morning, I read Luke 24 -- and completed my third trip through the Turkish NT. (My Muslim friends have a ceremony they practice upon finishing a read-through the Koran. It embarrasses them a little that I've read the NT in their language, and they've not yet read the Koran that way! Muslims read their book in Arabic, phonetically, and depend on an imam to interpret it.)
This time around, I got through in 11 months. Still finding words to look up every day, and a long ways to go before I can add Turkish to my resume.
BTW -- an excellent free resource, e-Sword, allows you to have original texts and multiple translations at your fingertips. You can download it HERE.
< Message edited by RJR_fan -- 4/19/2009 4:32:01 PM >
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/20/2009 2:21:47 PM
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ForeverRedeemed
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JHerr
I ask this question because I have been using the NIV version (Student Bible), and while I love it for the inserts and explanations of different things, I have noticed a very large conflict with other version.
I was reading over a thread before at the scripture 1 COR 7:1 was stated. It appeared as follows
1. Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
(NKJV)
In my NIV is appears as so:
1. Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. (NIV)
As you can see, they have a very distinct difference. I love the Study Bible portions of my bible, as they help to break things down for me, but I am suffering a conflict of interest for what it is sharing.
Any one have any advice on a study type bible that would be beneficial to me?
Hi JHerr - It is important to note that the NIV omits 17 verses in their entirety. If you look at which verses are omitted, they are indeed valuable gospel verses. (If you'd like a list of omitted verses, PM me and I'll send them along) With that said, I was saved out of a Catholic Bible and from the point of conversion, I had read an NIV Bible. At that time, to attempt to read a King James Version was like trying to read a foreign language. Over many years, I have come to the point where I love the King James Bible b/c it is the closest to the original manuscripts. If one has trouble reading the King James, a parallel Bible is very helpful. I very much enjoy comparing versions when studying the Word. I would not consider myself a KJV ONLY person, but I do use it as the standard b/c it is closest to the original manuscripts. There are some Bibles that translate word for word and some that translate thought for thought. Now that may sound confusing to some, but when studying the Word of God, do you want to read other ppls thoughts or formulate your own from the original meanings? I love going back and studying the original Hebrew and Greek ~ it opens an entire world of understanding for context and understanding WHO is being addressed in a particular portion of scripture and WHAT is being addressed as well. The Word of God is inexhaustible! There are so many treasures within those pages ..... I'd suggest a parallel Bible with the King James and another version of your choice (You might enjoy a King James and NIV - or a King James and the Living Bible, which is a word for word and a thought for thought side by side) and find yourself a good commentary. Talk thru the Bible by Bruce Wilkinson and Kenneth Boa is a great resource to have on hand also.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/20/2009 3:12:55 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JHerr
I ask this question because I have been using the NIV version (Student Bible),
The New International Version version?
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/20/2009 3:52:43 PM
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JHerr
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: JHerr
I ask this question because I have been using the NIV version (Student Bible),
The New International Version version?
Yes, I put in an extra "version". :P
_____________________________
My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak of my own. John 7:16-17
http://vaporzone.blogspot.com/
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/21/2009 1:11:56 AM
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phyl2
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quote:
It is important to note that the NIV omits 17 verses in their entirety. If you look at which verses are omitted, they are indeed valuable gospel verses.
None of the verses are omitted entirely. They are down in the footnotes. Most of them are repeated sentences that were repeated an extra time, or a sentence that is found in a similar passage, and the copyist accidentally copied it into another passage because the two passages were so similar and familiar to the copyist. So, the gospel is still there and is not deleted.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/21/2009 1:18:03 AM
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phyl2
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Oops, sorry, I shouldn't have responded to that here. I forgot I wasn't reading the KJVO thread.
I hope to someday be able to read the Bible in the original languages so I will not be totally dependent on translations. I have taken one year of both Greek and Hebrew. In doing so, I found that although the KJV is a more literal word for word translation, and the NIV is more thought for thought, there are plenty of times where the NIV is actually more literal than the KJV!
I think both are good translations, and so are the other main translations such as the NASB, NLT, ESV, HCSB, etc.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/25/2009 6:54:55 PM
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Saved_2_Serve
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phyl2
quote:
It is important to note that the NIV omits 17 verses in their entirety. If you look at which verses are omitted, they are indeed valuable gospel verses.
None of the verses are omitted entirely. They are down in the footnotes. Most of them are repeated sentences that were repeated an extra time, or a sentence that is found in a similar passage, and the copyist accidentally copied it into another passage because the two passages were so similar and familiar to the copyist. So, the gospel is still there and is not deleted.
I wouldn't want anyone reading this thread to be mislead, therefore I want to point out that this information is not correct and I do so to be informative, not argumentative.
For example: LQQK at the omitted verse 1 John 5:7, which is the main foundational verse for the trinity -
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." There are other verses elsewhere that allude and suggest the fact, but THIS is the ONLY VERSE that spells it out. The words of 1 Jn 5:7 ARE NOT REPEATED ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE BIBLE (thus dispelling the misinformation regarding the missing verses being "repeated", "similar" or "familiar"), and are very key.
As noted, this thread is not about whether you should read KJV or NIV - but rather about information regarding the choice of a study Bible. Comparing ANY version, ( KJV and NIV included), we need to ask ourselves, which version do I want to use as my authority and which for a study help? It might be helpful in choosing to know the KJV was translated by over 200 ppl and they used the most reliable manuscripts, (we won't get detailed and name which manuscripts and where they came from, as that is not the point of this thread). When you consider 200 translators ALL AGREED compared to 40 NIV translators (which 18 out of the 40 have questionable intentions) - the margin of error is going to be much higher with the 40 than the 200 (basic math).
It is interesting to ponder why 200 translators decided to keep the omitted verses in the passage, where they should be found, rather than in "footnotes" at the bottom of the page.
A good study of the manuscripts and translators will reveal the answer.
I use several versions when I do my Bible study (NIV included), and definitely look at the Greek and Hebrew meanings as well as WHO the writer is speaking to and what the issues are that are being addressed. My main Bible is a parallel Bible and I use concordances, a Nave's Topical Bible and a commentary, all of which are great tools for Bible study.
If you want to "study" your Bible I would recommend a King James Bible.
If you are looking to "read through" your Bible, I would recommend any thought for thought Bible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: phyl2
I have taken one year of both Greek and Hebrew. In doing so, I found that although the KJV is a more literal word for word translation,
I agree with phyl2, and add that unless you are going to read Greek, the KJV is the most literal WORD for WORD translation.
Why would you want a word for word translation? It will make your Bible study much EASIER.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/25/2009 10:14:17 PM
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jbow
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From: Dixie
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NASB
I have many translations. I like some of the psalms in KJV because of the poetic way it sounds. I like the ESV but don't use it regularly. My favorite NT translation is the J.B. Phillips translation. Phillips was a Greek scholar and didn't do any OT translation but his NT is very good, IMO. I also like to look at the 1599 Geneva Bible with the notes from the reformers.
I think that the translation is not nearly as important as the Teacher... that is.. the Holy Spirit. He is our Teacher and if we are led by Him we WILL get the truth no matter what translation we use.
Julien
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/26/2009 1:25:57 AM
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phyl2
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quote:
I wouldn't want anyone reading this thread to be mislead, therefore I want to point out that this information is not correct and I do so to be informative, not argumentative.
Continueing with the aim of being informative, not argumentative:
quote:
For example: LQQK at the omitted verse 1 John 5:7, which is the main foundational verse for the trinity -
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." There are other verses elsewhere that allude and suggest the fact, but THIS is the ONLY VERSE that spells it out. The words of 1 Jn 5:7 ARE NOT REPEATED ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE BIBLE (thus dispelling the misinformation regarding the missing verses being "repeated", "similar" or "familiar"), and are very key.
Note that I said MOST of the omitted verses are repetitions or taken from similar passages. I did not say ALL. 1 John 5:7 is one, and there are a few others.
quote:
It might be helpful in choosing to know the KJV was translated by over 200 ppl and they used the most reliable manuscripts, (we won't get detailed and name which manuscripts and where they came from, as that is not the point of this thread).
I believe this piece of information is incorrect. The KJV, according to every resource I have read, was translated by 40 some translators, not over 200.
quote:
It is interesting to ponder why 200 translators decided to keep the omitted verses in the passage, where they should be found, rather than in "footnotes" at the bottom of the page.
A good study of the manuscripts and translators will reveal the answer.
Again, there were only a little over 40 translators who made that choice to include that verse. Almost all translations since the KJV do not have that verse in the text. The NIV was translated by over 100 translators, and so was the NLT. Plus, in this case, a good study of the manuscripts will show you that the majority don't have the verse either. Only 4 do. So, for the person concerned over whether this is an issue that should decide their Bible translation decision, the manuscript evidence does not support the inclusion of this verse in the text.
quote:
I agree with phyl2, and add that unless you are going to read Greek, the KJV is the most literal WORD for WORD translation.
Most scholars say that the NASB is more literal than the KJV. The verses I translated in my cases showed that this was true, at least for those verses.
jbow said:
quote:
I think that the translation is not nearly as important as the Teacher... that is.. the Holy Spirit. He is our Teacher and if we are led by Him we WILL get the truth no matter what translation we use.
I agree.
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/26/2009 8:08:51 AM
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JHerr
Posts: 331
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phyl2
Again, there were only a little over 40 translators who made that choice to include that verse. Almost all translations since the KJV do not have that verse in the text. The NIV was translated by over 100 translators, and so was the NLT. Plus, in this case, a good study of the manuscripts will show you that the majority don't have the verse either. Only 4 do. So, for the person concerned over whether this is an issue that should decide their Bible translation decision, the manuscript evidence does not support the inclusion of this verse in the text.
After reading the information from the poster who brought in the verse 1Jn 5:7, I decided to use some of my study tools programs. Most of them say that the reason most bibles do not include this verse in entirety, is because "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Does not appear in any transcript or translation before the 16th century.
Either way, thank you all for continuing to share your opinions, and information to back it up.
_____________________________
My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak of my own. John 7:16-17
http://vaporzone.blogspot.com/
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RE: Which Bible do you prefer? - 4/26/2009 2:05:06 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11008
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please take the discussion about the KJV to the KJV one-stop. CLICK HERE to go to it.
Further such posts will be deleted as off-topic.
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Tricia
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