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Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/9/2008 8:02:53 PM
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MissInnocent
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I am honestly confused by all this. I'm not gonna get into which party do you hope wins, what candidate do you prefer and all that I just want someone to explain something to me....
How is it that the PEOPLE can vote one way and the delegates then come up with the OPPOSITE result and we get stuck with THEIR choose for party nominee/president? Why vote at all if these few special people are all that matter?
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/9/2008 8:43:43 PM
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Random
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From: Zipperhead
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Right now Obama has gotten more votes, and is leading in popular delegates. Hillary might have more superdelegates, but her lead is in the single digits, and some even have her behind in superdelegates now.
So, the delegates are voting the same way the people did. I know some were concerned about this before, but it is turning into a non-event.
_____________________________
Desmond Hume has come unstuck in time.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/9/2008 11:57:58 PM
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MissInnocent
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But why are they given the power to be able to vote opposite of the people? That's my point. Why is it even POSSIBLE they could go opposite of the popular vote and why is their vote what matters instead of the popular vote?
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/10/2008 1:00:44 PM
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lightshineon
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No, the will of the people does not matter, never really has.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/10/2008 2:39:00 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MissInnocent
I am honestly confused by all this. I'm not gonna get into which party do you hope wins, what candidate do you prefer and all that I just want someone to explain something to me....
How is it that the PEOPLE can vote one way and the delegates then come up with the OPPOSITE result and we get stuck with THEIR choose for party nominee/president? Why vote at all if these few special people are all that matter?
That is the way of the Demokrats, to keep control from the people and in the hands of the party elite.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/10/2008 5:43:54 PM
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MissInnocent
Posts: 119
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, the will of the people does not matter, never really has.
So what's the point of even voting if what we think doesn't matter?
RC, I don't want this turning into an attack a certain party thread please.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/10/2008 10:14:04 PM
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lightshineon
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I will be honest, I used to ask my mother the same question when I was young, and she said, the electoral College was supposed to vote the will of the people. I did not understand it then or now.It seems controlled by Delegates, and SuperDeleagtes, and it is something I need to study more. In fairness to Pastor RC, he was stating as what he sees as fact, and not attack, I am loyal to fellow conservatives (LOL)
quote:
ORIGINAL: MissInnocent
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, the will of the people does not matter, never really has.
So what's the point of even voting if what we think doesn't matter?
RC, I don't want this turning into an attack a certain party thread please.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 5/10/2008 10:20:21 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/11/2008 4:44:50 PM
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MissInnocent
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I didn't mean to seem harsh toward him I was. I just didn't want this thread going the "this party is better" route. It just gives me a headache to get into it with folks so I avoid it lol. I just don't understand how you can win a popular vote and then NOT win an election. Maybe we never will. And this is the first time I've ever heard of Superdelegates but in all honesty this is only the 2nd election I've really paid attention to. For the record though I did vote for the first time in 2004 (though I could have before) and plan on voting this year.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/11/2008 6:11:19 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1710
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
I just don't understand how you can win a popular vote and then NOT win an election.
As far as an election proper it is more important to win enough electoral votes than popular vote. This happened in 2000 when Al Gore won more popular votes but not enough electoral votes. The presidential election works more like the popular vote decides where your states electoral votes go.
I don't think RC is too far off on how the democrat system is with what he says. There is no reason for their to be super-delegates that vote independantly of the people in the party other than what he said. At least I can think of none.
Here is a chart for the 2000 election so you can see how the electoral votes and the popular vote went:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/11/2008 8:12:11 PM
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MissInnocent
Posts: 119
Joined: 5/3/2005
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It just doesn't seem fair that one person wins the popular vote and another person wins electoral vote. I repeat why have the people vote at all if in the long run it doesn't matter what they think? And I'll admit when I first started this thread the Bush/Gore ordeal was on my mind as well as the Hillary/Obama stuff going on now.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/12/2008 12:26:20 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MissInnocent
It just doesn't seem fair that one person wins the popular vote and another person wins electoral vote. I repeat why have the people vote at all if in the long run it doesn't matter what they think? And I'll admit when I first started this thread the Bush/Gore ordeal was on my mind as well as the Hillary/Obama stuff going on now.
The Electoral vote was one of many ways to unite separate States under one Union so the small states would not be marginalized. Your vote counts. Your vote determines how the Electoral College votes. The electoral college helps all states have a somewhat equal voice. I think it is a good idea, it forces candidates to address issues that affect all Americans not just pander to regions with higher population concentrations. The electoral vote ensures that Rhode Islands votes count as equally as New York's.The popular vote dictates the electoral vote but the electoral vote ensures a more balanced representation for less densely populated regions.
John
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/12/2008 7:55:00 AM
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SteveSund
Posts: 745
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: MissInnocent
I am honestly confused by all this. I'm not gonna get into which party do you hope wins, what candidate do you prefer and all that I just want someone to explain something to me....
How is it that the PEOPLE can vote one way and the delegates then come up with the OPPOSITE result and we get stuck with THEIR choose for party nominee/president? Why vote at all if these few special people are all that matter?
That is the way of the Demokrats, to keep control from the people and in the hands of the party elite.
Thanks
RC
The Republican Party has the same system in place. Do you honestly believe that they don't manipulate what happens in the primaries to get their favorite elected? I can guarantee that happened in my state (MI) with the state Republican Party.
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RE: Will of the people: Does it matter? - 5/12/2008 9:14:18 AM
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EStan
Posts: 209
Joined: 7/27/2005
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Here's a couple of interesting articles about the selection of delegates:
Super Delegates - Wikipedia
Republican Primary - Wiki
Here's an excerpt from the first article:
Democratic Party rules distinguish pledged and unpledged delegates. Pledged delegates are selected based on their announced preferences in the contest for the presidential nomination. In the party primary elections and caucuses in each U.S. state, voters express their preference among the contenders for the party’s nomination for President of the United States. Pledged delegates supporting each candidate are chosen in approximate ratio to their candidate’s share of the vote. The party rules state (Rule 12.J): "Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." and (Rule 12.I): "No delegate ... shall be mandated by law or Party rule to vote contrary to that person’s presidential choice as expressed at the time the delegate is elected." [1]
By contrast, the unpledged PLEO delegates are seated without regard to their presidential preferences, just by virtue of being current or former elected officeholders and party officials. Many of them have chosen to announce endorsements, but they are not bound in any way. They may support any candidate they wish, including one who has dropped out of the presidential race.[3] The unpledged add-on delegates, who need not be PLEOs, are selected by the state parties after some of the pledged delegates are chosen,[1] but they resemble the unpledged PLEO delegates in being free to vote as they wish.
The process of selecting Democratic Party delegates is described here and here. These delegates fall into these categories:
District-level pledged delegates
At-large pledged delegates
Unpledged PLEO delegates
Unpledged add-on delegates
Pledged PLEO delegates
In both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, there are a number of state-level unpledged delegates. They are chosen by each state's party through a method of its choosing: convention, caucus, or state party leader vote.[4] State-level unpledged delegates tend to vote for the candidate who received the most votes from their state. But they are not required to do so, and some state parties give them more leeway than others). Many state Republican party delegations are made up entirely of unpledged delegates which gives them the distinction "winner take all".[5] Even with these traditions, unpledged delegates are allowed to change their vote at any time before the national convention. This is why both the Republican and Democratic parties have the potential for a brokered convention.
After doing a lot of research during the 2004 election, I believe our electoral system is about as close as you can get to representing ALL the people.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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