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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/21/2008 10:26:28 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 547
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
Nice try, but there hasn't been an illiterate person allowed entrance into wherever it is the Vatican stores/displays these artistic 'treasures' for hundreds of years, at least... They are not for the illiterate masses.
Papa,
Ps103 asked for proof of this assertion. I was hoping you could provide some before we get sidetracked. We tend to be like ADD on steroids around here sometimes.
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/21/2008 12:37:08 PM
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texastweet
Posts: 376
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
Nope, but I do prefer...gazillions.
OK, then no facts then...
quote:
Ever the strawman architect. Who said RC should sell everything they own?
Got me there, but how about I come over to your house and tell you how to best manage your life and tell you how you should care for the poor.
quote:
First, we are not to attempt representations of God. Second, some of the "beautiful treasures" do not portray scriptually sound truths. So much artistic license in taken that the works, in some cases, simply portray what is untrue
Oh, I thought it was images of anything?? Or do you modify that position? The rest is simply opinion and you try to use a single brush to malign all art. Or do you just have a fondness for a Velvet Elvis?
quote:
The Schaeffer quotes have nothing to do with Vatican art treasures. He is simply expressing his view that Christians should be involved with the arts and sciences.
It has everything to do with it, but you just don't like how it supports the Church. How is else is one suppose to care for the arts if not by preserving the great gifts of these artists?
Otis
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/21/2008 10:45:56 PM
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gatolover
Posts: 544
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Dear texastweet,
quote:
OK, then no facts then...
HA HA! As usual.
quote:
Got me there, but how about I come over to your house and tell you how to best manage your life and tell you how you should care for the poor.
Ever the voice of reason, texaxtweet. Indeed, if only we all practiced what we preach....especially in "evangelical" America.
quote:
Oh, I thought it was images of anything?? Or do you modify that position? The rest is simply opinion and you try to use a single brush to malign all art. Or do you just have a fondness for a Velvet Elvis?
I would think ALL velvet Elvises would represent a form of idolatry in the evangelical mind, but perhaps I'm mistaken. He was considered the "King of Rock 'n Roll" for a while, no? In fact, I recall a site posted here that glorified an Elvis impersonator and his renditions of many of Elvis' songs. Is that idolatry?
Thank you, Otis, for bringing up an excellent point. Why is it that "evangelical" Christians fault the supposedly "saved" children of God gifted in musical/vocal talent for not singing "worship music" 24/7, while they refuse the opportunity for those "other" children of God who are gifted in the visual arts to express their God-given gifts 24/7? It is a conundrum, IMHO.
kelman wrote:
quote:
The Schaeffer quotes have nothing to do with Vatican art treasures. He is simply expressing his view that Christians should be involved with the arts and sciences.
Then why all the hoopla about Christian art? What about Thomas Kincaid, dubbed "the painter of light?" Christ is called the "light" in Scripture. Why is it OK for Thomas Kincaid to disguise his artistic intent to paint "light" [supposedly to express his Christianity] acceptable, but you object to the greatest masters like Michaelangelo's masterpiece in the Sistene Chapel as somehow lacking in your view? Just because they are "Catholic?" Thomas Kincaid is painting based on his own way of subjecting his creativity to the evangelical mindset he succumbs to. If he is portraying God as sunlight in all of his paintings, isn't that misrepresenting God and a form of idolatry? Despite the little cottages and streams representing the "light,' isn't the artist trying to send a message?
Do you like Thomas Kincaid's artwork, kelman? Curious.
Good to see you Otis. Sorry for sabotaging your post and turning topics. You know how personal the arts are to me. 
Pax et boum, Otis and yours,
gatolover
Would like a reasoned response, kelman.
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/22/2008 4:07:21 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3860
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quote:
quote:
Nope, but I do prefer...gazillions. OK, then no facts then... Gave actual facts a few posts back...guess you missed them...or more probably just ignored them.
quote:
quote:
Ever the strawman architect. Who said RC should sell everything they own? Got me there, but how about I come over to your house and tell you how to best manage your life and tell you how you should care for the poor. Sure, come on over anytime. Plenty of threads which could address your concerns. Right now, though, we happen to be in a thread about popes; therefore, the wealth of the Vatican seems appropriate enough.
quote:
quote:
First, we are not to attempt representations of God. Second, some of the "beautiful treasures" do not portray scriptually sound truths. So much artistic license in taken that the works, in some cases, simply portray what is untrue
Oh, I thought it was images of anything?? Or do you modify that position? Well, making "supposed" representations of God is the biggest offender.
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The rest is simply opinion and you try to use a single brush to malign all art. LOL....talk about wide brush strokes! Let's just chalk it up to your extravagant use of "creative license" when you proclaim that a FACT about certain Vatican treasures "maligns all art".
quote:
Or do you just have a fondness for a Velvet Elvis? Nah, my tastes run more toward poker playing dogs....but, you're right, gotta love that velvet canvas.
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quote:
The Schaeffer quotes have nothing to do with Vatican art treasures. He is simply expressing his view that Christians should be involved with the arts and sciences. It has everything to do with it, but you just don't like how it supports the Church. How is else is one suppose to care for the arts if not by preserving the great gifts of these artists? True to form...reading your presuppositional theories into a few quotes. No where does Schaeffer give the slightest hint or make the slightest inference concerning Vatican treasures. It is abundantly evident he is speaking about Christians becoming involved in the arts and sciences. Why is it abundantly evident?...because he actually says exactly that.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/22/2008 4:20:28 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3860
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quote:
quote:
OK, then no facts then... HA HA! As usual. Actually, what is "usual" is for some RC posters to ignore posts that have given facts...understandable, though, it's just easier for them that way.
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In fact, I recall a site posted here that glorified an Elvis impersonator and his renditions of many of Elvis' songs. Is that idolatry? Nope, I rather doubt it; but, for a certainty bowing down and praying to anyone save God IS idolatry.
quote:
quote:
The Schaeffer quotes have nothing to do with Vatican art treasures. He is simply expressing his view that Christians should be involved with the arts and sciences. Then why all the hoopla about Christian art? Huh? I said he is expressing his opinion that Christians should become involved with the arts and sciences. He makes no inference concerning the Vatican "treasures".
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Do you like Thomas Kincaid's artwork, kelman? Curious. Oh, is he the artist who painted the poker playing dogs?...excellent work!
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Would like a reasoned response, kelman. I rather doubt that you do. And, I also doubt there is "any" response I could give which you would consider "reasoned"...unless, of course, I agreed with you. Nonetheless, I will attempt a "reasoned" response.
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What about Thomas Kincaid, dubbed "the painter of light?" Christ is called the "light" in Scripture. Why is it OK for Thomas Kincaid to disguise his artistic intent to paint "light" [supposedly to express his Christianity] acceptable, but you object to the greatest masters like Michaelangelo's masterpiece in the Sistene Chapel as somehow lacking in your view? Really, if you want a "reasoned" response, you must ask "reasoned" questions. If you see "Christ" in his work, that is your subjective appraisal. I see a lot of electric lamps. They're peaceful and pleasant; and, some like to have them around...sort of like Precious Moments figurines. But, he does not paint representations of God or angels as did Michaelangelo. So, the subject matter is a comparison of apples and oranges.
As for the Sistine Chapel, btw, the pope who commissioned it was a bit of a nut. He had much in common with the modern day Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The former thought he would usher in the "last days". The latter believes the same...both suffered/suffer from delusions of grandeur...and probably a lot more!
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Just because they are "Catholic?" This "victim mentality" is really getting old. Whoever makes representations is in violation of Scripture.
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Thomas Kincaid is painting based on his own way of subjecting his creativity to the evangelical mindset he succumbs to. As far as I can tell he mostly "succumbs" to houses, fields, etc. Hmm, I guess I should say "evangelical" houses and fields.
quote:
If he is portraying God as sunlight in all of his paintings, isn't that misrepresenting God and a form of idolatry? Despite the little cottages and streams representing the "light,' isn't the artist trying to send a message? Talk about a "hail mary pass"... He's not "portraying" God at all. He may be portraying his vision of the beauty of God's creation. Since, he is not attempting to paint God, there's nothing wrong with the "message" he is sending in his work.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/22/2008 6:03:38 AM
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Doghouse
Posts: 891
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From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
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I find it humorous that a discussion of Vatican wealth is somehow on-topic for a discussion about the Pope.
The curator of my local museum is not the one who owns the art. The curator is merely managing the care and display of the art for observation by the public. Its as if some here assume the Pope personally owns these works.
Another observation is that some of these items, which are supposedly worth a gazillion dollars, would be of little value if actually purchased, and then displayed outside of the Vatican. The perception of monetary value is a purely man-made concept, borne out of having to insure some of these practically priceless items against the affects of damage - natural or man-made. The Vatican cares for them and preserves them because they were given to the Church for the purposes of trying to express the glory and greatness of God, using mere oil colors and canvas - and the hand of a painter. The Vatican has accepted the responsibility of caring for these items and raising the funds necessary to accomplish this task from its parishioners - people just like me.
And I gladly support this mission of the Vatican. I would like all people 100 years from now to have the opportunity to visit Rome and tour the Vatican and see these items first hand.
How many people have been brought to Christ by being inspired by their experience visiting Rome? My bet would be a lot more than observing the antics of Benny Hinn on cable TV.
_____________________________
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/22/2008 3:54:04 PM
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neverisenough
Posts: 8
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
How many people have been brought to Christ by being inspired by their experience visiting Rome? My bet would be a lot more than observing the antics of Benny Hinn on cable TV.
Faith comes by visting Rome? Is that from one of the books missing from my bible? 
John
John,
Why can't people be brought to Christ in Rome? Or in the mountains of TN or at the sight of their new born child or when ever is right for them. Sounds a little judgmental to me - every ones experience in meeting Christ is different non better non worse just different.
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/22/2008 8:07:22 PM
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texastweet
Posts: 376
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
No where does Schaeffer give the slightest hint or make the slightest inference concerning Vatican treasures.
Kelman
Of course he doesn't reference treasures. The point of posting his quote is to show that evangelical preachers even realize that todays version of protestantism has forgot or ignored the arts and science and how they can reflect the divine. This of course is the foundation for religious organizations to honor and create art. Strain at a gnat...
Otis
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/22/2008 10:33:22 PM
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gatolover
Posts: 544
Joined: 6/23/2006
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Hi again, kelman,
quote:
Actually, what is "usual" is for some RC posters to ignore posts that have given facts...understandable, though, it's just easier for them that way.
As far as I can tell, we're still waiting for "facts" to back up some rather wild accusations; i.e., "gazillions," and such.
quote:
Nope, I rather doubt it; but, for a certainty bowing down and praying to anyone save God IS idolatry.
So what's the point? If this particular Elvis impersonator "evangelical," doesn't happen to succumb to your particular brand of evangelicalism, expects people to "bow down" to him, [which is clearly wrong and I don't recall him asking anyone to do so], where do you go to settle the dispute? Christ left a clear command in Scripture to "take it to the Church," but evangelicals have nowhere to go to be obedient to that particular command of Christ, which is in the Bible you all supposedly read! Thankfully, our Lord didn't leave us orphans and has preserved His Church...just like He said.
quote:
I said he is expressing his opinion that Christians should become involved with the arts and sciences.
And they are free to do so in America, at the risk of consternation, ridicule, and potential banishment from their respective "ecclesial communities." Very encouraging for an evangelical visual artist to paint anything other than lamps, candles, or sunshine to express the beauty he might feel in his soul by the Grace of God. I have never encountered such stifling people in my life, until I met non-Catholic Christians.
I asked: quote:
Do you like Thomas Kincaid's artwork, kelman? Curious.
You responded: quote:
Oh, is he the artist who painted the poker playing dogs?...excellent work!
Umm, no. At least now I have an idea regarding your familiarity with art in general, and where your peculiar taste in artwork lies. That explains a lot.
quote:
I rather doubt that you do.
And, you are in no position to judge the intent of my heart when I asked the question. Your prejudgment is evident, friend, and you presume WAY too much in the rest of your post.
What you think doesn't really matter much to me, kelman. I was just interested in your opinions until you started accusing me of some sort of agenda.
Fine...I think you're doing a fine job avoiding Catholic issues, and if that's what you want to do, then so be it.
Pax et bonum,
gatolover
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/24/2008 5:36:54 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3860
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: texastweet
quote:
No where does Schaeffer give the slightest hint or make the slightest inference concerning Vatican treasures.
Kelman
Of course he doesn't reference treasures. The point of posting his quote is to show that evangelical preachers even realize that todays version of protestantism has forgot or ignored the arts and science and how they can reflect the divine. This of course is the foundation for religious organizations to honor and create art. Strain at a gnat...
Otis
Nope, no mention of "religious organizations" either. Clearly, he is simply referencing individuals. Mountains out of molehills....
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/24/2008 5:49:58 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3860
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gatolover
As far as I can tell, we're still waiting for "facts" to back up some rather wild accusations; i.e., "gazillions," and such. And, as far as I can tell it's the usual refusal to look at a few past posts so that you'd know what you're talking about. Ah, but then you might have to stop with your wild accusations...guess that won't work.
quote:
So what's the point? If this particular Elvis impersonator "evangelical," doesn't happen to succumb to your particular brand of evangelicalism, expects people to "bow down" to him, [which is clearly wrong and I don't recall him asking anyone to do so], where do you go to settle the dispute? For Pete's sake, what are you talking about anyway? Who is this guy? Is this a real person? Is there some Elvis impersonator running around getting people to "bow down" to him? Even if true, what would this have to do with anything? Are you actually serious here? If you're trying to make some point, let me assure you, you have failed.
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Christ left a clear command in Scripture to "take it to the Church," but evangelicals have nowhere to go to be obedient to that particular command of Christ, which is in the Bible you all supposedly read! I know you guys think we don't have "real" churches; but, guess what?.....we know we do so your opinions are irrelevant. Why do we know our churches are "real"? ...because we actually know what a church is. How do we know? ....because God tells us in the Book He wrote which we do, in fact, read ...and low and behold, actually do, in fact, believe. What a novel concept, huh?
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I have never encountered such stifling people in my life, until I met non-Catholic Christians. Apparently, they, at least, are fully aware that it is a great sin to make representations of God. Therefore, your unpleasant opinion is truly a great compliment to them.
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What you think doesn't really matter much to me, kelman. I know that, precisely why I said "I rather doubt you do". I called that one, right from the start.....lol
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And, you are in no position to judge the intent of my heart when I asked the question. I'm in an excellent position to know since I've encountered you before when you've made the "intent of your heart" quite clear.
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Fine...I think you're doing a fine job avoiding Catholic issues, and if that's what you want to do, then so be it. That's called projection, gat. It is you who find it impossible to ever engage in anything substantive, just read your own posts for confirmation. And, this is precisely why I began with "I rather doubt that you do"...and, of course, you've proved once again - you don't.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/24/2008 11:28:52 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11666
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Get the personal snarking off the board.
Now, please. Unless you would like a vacation from forums.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/25/2008 8:21:57 PM
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PeterD
Posts: 426
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Hello Ps103
I have a question?
Where is a good place to talk about Marquette's Department of Theology?
Being a Catholic school and all.
PeterD
[edited by moderator]
< Message edited by PeterD -- 5/25/2008 9:31:10 PM >
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/25/2008 8:57:03 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11666
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I would suggest the College and Career folder, Peter.
In the future, do not quote a nudge again. You have been here long enough to know better.
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 5/25/2008 9:08:18 PM >
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 5/26/2008 8:29:42 PM
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PeterD
Posts: 426
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I would suggest the College and Career folder, Peter.
In the future, do not quote a nudge again. You have been here long enough to know better.
Hello Ps103
I should know better why I did it, maybe the Luther thing, I don't know... but I took your advice instead, so I'm sorry and won't do that again!
I put the college under your suggestion and I shared where I went to school also.
PeterD
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 6/2/2008 2:12:13 AM
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Papa-san
Posts: 998
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
quote:
Nice try, but there hasn't been an illiterate person allowed entrance into wherever it is the Vatican stores/displays these artistic 'treasures' for hundreds of years, at least
Proof please.
Sorry for the delay in my response. I have just returned from 2 weeks with my family in Florida.
All one needs to do is look at the security surrounding the items that are put on display. Anyone not considered to be sufficiently tied to the Vatican will not be allowed to enter into the places where these things are kept while within the Vatican... I'm willing to bet that none of the people who go into there are illiterate. Even when they are on display, they aren't presented in a venue where those who ARE illiterate would be likely to see them...
I may not have any 'proof', but simple human reasoning is sufficient to put this together...
Nevertheless, the central issue here hasn't changed: Those things can be the source of a significant amount of money. Taking into consideration the great number of needy people in your church, this would be a good way to do what Jesus commanded His Church to do. Not doing this is proof of a failure to steward God's resources in a manner that glorifies Him and follows His clear instructions...
_____________________________
"Discernment demands that we should hold biblical convictions with the most fervent tenacity" John MacArthur
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 6/2/2008 10:11:02 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 547
Joined: 7/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
Sorry for the delay in my response. I have just returned from 2 weeks with my family in Florida.
All one needs to do is look at the security surrounding the items that are put on display. Anyone not considered to be sufficiently tied to the Vatican will not be allowed to enter into the places where these things are kept while within the Vatican... I'm willing to bet that none of the people who go into there are illiterate. Even when they are on display, they aren't presented in a venue where those who ARE illiterate would be likely to see them...
Since you are claiming to be an expert on both the Vatican art collection and the security of the Vatican, perhaps you can give us an inventory of where the art is held and how they screen out the illiterate. For example, some of the art is on the walls and ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, are you saying that they force people to take a literacy test before people visit the Sistine Chapel? Also, much of the art is held in the Vatican Museums. Do people have to take a literacy test before they enter the Vatican museums. If you cannot affirmatively answer yes to these two questions, then you are guilty of making claims without doing sufficient research. This is a form of false witness. I am sure that you will agree with me that such behavior in no way is edifying for the body of Christ.
quote:
I may not have any 'proof', but simple human reasoning is sufficient to put this together...
Nevertheless, the central issue here hasn't changed: Those things can be the source of a significant amount of money. Taking into consideration the great number of needy people in your church, this would be a good way to do what Jesus commanded His Church to do. Not doing this is proof of a failure to steward God's resources in a manner that glorifies Him and follows His clear instructions...
The central issue is simple: You consistently make false claims about the Vatican. There is no excuse for such behavior, because if you have time to post tired old lies on a bulletin board, then you have time to do the research to verify whether what you are claiming is true. The question you need to ask yourself is: If you have no interest in the truth about your claims about the Catholic Church, why should any of us think you have any interest in truth when you interpret scripture?
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 6/2/2008 7:43:39 PM
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preachermyron
Posts: 26
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SovereignIsHe - If you are a Christian and use the SovereignIsHe name online but mock miracles and those who pray for them it means that He is not sovereign to you and you are using His name in a mocking fashion. Remember Galatians 6:7a which says "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked"
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: neverisenough
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
How many people have been brought to Christ by being inspired by their experience visiting Rome? My bet would be a lot more than observing the antics of Benny Hinn on cable TV.
Faith comes by visting Rome? Is that from one of the books missing from my bible?
John
John,
Why can't people be brought to Christ in Rome? Or in the mountains of TN or at the sight of their new born child or when ever is right for them. Sounds a little judgmental to me - every ones experience in meeting Christ is different non better non worse just different.
I guess the little smiley face didn't do its job... Oh well...
John
and those who pray for those miracles. you or loved one desperatlty need a miracle would you mock the person praying for you or you loved one" When you mock those doing God's work yo are mocking Him Galatians 6:7 says "
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 6/2/2008 7:58:17 PM
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preachermyron
Posts: 26
Joined: 5/29/2008
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There is no Bibical record of popes anywhere in canonized Scripture but maybe in uncanonized Scripture. There isn't any indication that Popes were needed. Jesus and His followers never bowed their knees to Peter but Peter and the others bowed their knees to Jesus. Only humble servants not arrogant, prideful titles were used. The greatest in God's kingdom become servants of others. They don't make others religious slaves who serve them. Jesus said "I didn't come to be served but to serve". Matthew 20:28. Myron. preachermyron@yahoo.com
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 6/2/2008 9:57:12 PM
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Papa-san
Posts: 998
Joined: 4/12/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
I may not have any 'proof', but simple human reasoning is sufficient to put this together...
Nevertheless, the central issue here hasn't changed: Those things can be the source of a significant amount of money. Taking into consideration the great number of needy people in your church, this would be a good way to do what Jesus commanded His Church to do. Not doing this is proof of a failure to steward God's resources in a manner that glorifies Him and follows His clear instructions...
The central issue is simple: You consistently make false claims about the Vatican. There is no excuse for such behavior, because if you have time to post tired old lies on a bulletin board, then you have time to do the research to verify whether what you are claiming is true. The question you need to ask yourself is: If you have no interest in the truth about your claims about the Catholic Church, why should any of us think you have any interest in truth when you interpret scripture?
Your perception of the central issue is skewed.
It really doesn't matter a whit what these security concerns and literacy concerns are. Those things don't matter!!! (However, when I next visit the Vatican, I assure you I will return with some photographic evidence to post here... So, let's drop the 'central' side issue here.)
What DOES matter is the fact that the Vatican has at least one single piece of artwork in it's tiny little , fit in a bread-box treasury that has any financial value to any outside collector. THIS is the central issue. I can say that I saw the pope in my hometown last week and he was a slight shade of purple with green polka-dots all over his face and hands. We would all know that this has probably got no backing to the claim, and is therefore not valid information. As I clearly stated that I had no proof, I don't believe this is an issue either.
Again, we are looking at the fact that the one half-penny (plus) that the Vatican has in it's treasury beyond it's actual operating expenses is one half-penny TOO MUCH! As long as you continue to choose to be blind to the real issue here, you will continue to show a failure to understand the Great Commission that Christ gave us.
< Message edited by Papa-san -- 6/2/2008 10:06:44 PM >
_____________________________
"Discernment demands that we should hold biblical convictions with the most fervent tenacity" John MacArthur
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RE: Why do we need a Pope? - 6/3/2008 5:14:34 AM
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Doghouse
Posts: 891
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
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quote:
Only humble servants not arrogant, prideful titles were used. Rest assured then that the Pope and all of the Roman Catholic clergy serve the faithful parishioners such as myself, and provide for me the instruction and pastoral guidance I seek to support my walk in faith.
The Pope is a Bishop (Episkopos) just like all the other Bishops. However, he is also the Bishop of Rome, which means he occupies the seat once occupied by Peter. I suppose that it could be debated just what Peter was and was not amongst the Apostles, but where do we find the Church who's leader occupies the seat of Paul, or James, or any of the other Apostles?
Which Church is that?
The unbroken line of the magisterium back to the deposit of faith lay in the Roman Catholic Church (I believe). And it is lead by Jesus, with the help of the Holy Spirit. The deputy of Jesus, the one who is responsible for the organization and leadership of the Church until Jesus returns - is the Bishop of Rome, or the Pope. He is simply working as first assistant to Jesus to provide an earthly presence and face and voice to express the views and instruction of the institution, which is the whole that is greater than the sum of its parts.
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When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
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