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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/4/2008 1:53:33 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
If my baptist friend kneels in front of his bed when he prays, does that mean he is worshiping his bed?
Thats a great example. I will have to remember this one. Happy Friday!
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/4/2008 2:04:34 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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I know that Baptists (or any other Christian religion) don’t worship their beds just like I know Catholics don’t worship statues.
This example makes that point.
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/4/2008 2:24:15 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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Point being the simple act of kneeling in front of something doesn’t mean that you worship that item or even pray to it. This example points out how utterly ridiculous that idea is.
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/4/2008 4:26:24 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
You, too, Mary! Thank you! And I hope I haven't made you feel like I am judging or antagonizing you.
Welcome! It is good to have you here on the forums! 
Nope. Thanks for the welcome!
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/4/2008 7:18:00 PM
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Papa-san
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
Perhaps you ought to think before calling something STUPID.
I did think... That's why I said it was stupid... You think that people who have a hard time understanding doctrine, or the ones who rarely go to Mass are going to realize the difference? They might if the Catholic church had any interest in teaching, but from my personal experience, If I'm tossing money in the plate, the 'teachers' are quite content to let me think and believe whatever I already do... whether true or not.
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 1:01:54 AM
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PeterD
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Are statues and idols the sames thing?
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 10:29:36 AM
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Papa-san
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Are statues and idols the sames thing?
Not neccissarily... But they can be.
I walked past the various statues in Washington D.C. and in other cities, yet at no time did I think that the person represented by those pieces of inanimate material had any ability to affect the land of the living. (Except for the crucifixes I have seen that depict our Saviour suffering for me...)
I have contemplated the example they set for us, and agree that there were some amazing things done by people which have changed MANY lives. (Lincoln is one who stands out most visibly to me.) Yet at no time would I ever kneel before any of them and/or pray to the person represented. This is when a statue becomes an idol, and is when God gets angered because someone is putting something else in the place that is His and His alone.
These people may have done amazing things when they were alive, and their example should be contemplated. But God tells me very clearly that I need to be sure to keep myself FREE of the idolatry that can easily creep in if I don't keep my perception of these people in proper perspective: They were just people. Nowhere in Gods Word are we told that we should revere them beyond this at any time.
The worshipping of the people these statues represent is nothing more than human invention. Certainly inspired by Satan, because it is designed to reduce the primacy of Jesus Christ, but machinated by people... Tragically, those who have fallen into this trap will defend its practice to the death! That is how cleverly Satan has designed his attack...
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 10:56:16 AM
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Mannamuncher
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
Kneeling before a statue of someone else is yet another violation of scripture! Is there a number as to how many of these violations of Gods word will be enough to convince you?
If my baptist friend kneels in front of his bed when he prays, does that mean he is worshiping his bed?
Is he talking to the bed ?
Does he think the bed is greater than him ?
Does he think the bed can help him somehow ?
Your answer is impertinent and plain silly !
Tell us why you kneel before a statue ?
Tell us what is going through your mind ?
_____________________________
Lay siege to your sins, and starve them out, by keeping away the food and fuel which is their maintenance and life. (Baxter)
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 11:32:13 AM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 298
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
I did think... That's why I said it was stupid... You think that people who have a hard time understanding doctrine, or the ones who rarely go to Mass are going to realize the difference? They might if the Catholic church had any interest in teaching, but from my personal experience, If I'm tossing money in the plate, the 'teachers' are quite content to let me think and believe whatever I already do... whether true or not.
I am sorry you have had this experience with the Catholic Church.
There is a need for teaching and learning in most churches I have found. I once asked a friend why she had started attending a non-denom church and she said, “Because they serve free Star Bucks!!” I wonder how many people really truly know what their church teaches, and I think the blame is 50/50 for adults the church should teach (although not the purpose of a Catholic Mass) and we should seek to learn.
Pax,
Mary
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 11:37:34 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Are statues and idols the sames thing?
Anything can become an Idol.
Peace,
Mary
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 11:38:35 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2252
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Are statues and idols the sames thing?
Anything can become an Idol.
Peace,
Mary
Sure, but why kneel before one ?
_____________________________
Lay siege to your sins, and starve them out, by keeping away the food and fuel which is their maintenance and life. (Baxter)
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 11:53:19 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Is he talking to the bed ?
I am not talking to the Statue either.
Does he think the bed is greater than him ?
The statue is not greater then me either, but yes - I think the person represented in the statue I kneel before is greater then ME but NOT greater then God unless it’s a statue of God.
Does he think the bed can help him somehow ?
It might help him get a good night sleep 
Tell us why you kneel before a statue ?
Too pray.
Tell us what is going through your mind ?
See next post
Pax,
Mary
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 12:20:46 PM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2252
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Is he talking to the bed ?
I am not talking to the Statue either.
Does he think the bed is greater than him ?
The statue is not greater then me either, but yes - I think the person represented in the statue I kneel before is greater then ME but NOT greater then God unless it’s a statue of God.
Does he think the bed can help him somehow ?
It might help him get a good night sleep
Tell us why you kneel before a statue ?
Too pray.
Tell us what is going through your mind ?
See next post
Pax,
Mary
TOO funny !
Some of us fear doing what you do...
_____________________________
Lay siege to your sins, and starve them out, by keeping away the food and fuel which is their maintenance and life. (Baxter)
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 12:33:12 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 298
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamunche
Tell us what is going through your mind ?
Kneeling in front of Mary for example –
I am praying/conversing with Mary and asking for her prayers to her son for me, I tell Mary my needs/wants/worries and ask for her intercession on my behalf. I do this through prayers that honor her.
The Hail Mary for example
See www.chnetwork.org/journals/mary/mary_6.htm for a great explanation of the words to the Hail Mary.
I can and do kneel in front of Mary and pray directly to God, the only thing going through my head well kneeling in front of a statue is my desire to love and worship the Lord.
Peace,
Mary
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 12:47:16 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 298
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Are statues and idols the sames thing?
Anything can become an Idol.
Peace,
Mary
Sure, but why kneel before one ?
You Shouldn't! I know I don't. You can’t accidentally idolize something.
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 12:58:24 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 298
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Is he talking to the bed ?
I am not talking to the Statue either.
Does he think the bed is greater than him ?
The statue is not greater then me either, but yes - I think the person represented in the statue I kneel before is greater then ME but NOT greater then God unless it’s a statue of God.
Does he think the bed can help him somehow ?
It might help him get a good night sleep
Tell us why you kneel before a statue ?
Too pray.
Tell us what is going through your mind ?
See next post
Pax,
Mary
TOO funny !
Some of us fear doing what you do...
Care to elaborate?
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 1:00:56 PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 915
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Are statues and idols the sames thing?
Anything can become an Idol.
Peace,
Mary
Welcome Mary!
PeterD,
Food is the idol of the glutton, carnal pleasure is the idol of the lustful, material is the idol of the greedy, recreation is the idol of the slothful, discension is the idol of the wrathful, misfortune is the idol of the envious - get it?
Kneeling before something being the definition of "idol" is a bit legalistic, don't you think?
Reflecting on the grace displayed by a particular Saint and asking for a bit of that type of grace from God, gives glory to God. I don't see how anyone can justify a label on that practice of "idolotry".
_____________________________
...If Christian Doctrine were on trial, the Bible would be called as a witness. The Church serves as the judge...(Acts 15:28)
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 4:25:43 PM
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Papa-san
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4/12/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamunche
Tell us what is going through your mind ?
Kneeling in front of Mary for example –
I am praying/conversing with Mary and asking for her prayers to her son for me, I tell Mary my needs/wants/worries and ask for her intercession on my behalf. I do this through prayers that honor her.
The Hail Mary for example
See www.chnetwork.org/journals/mary/mary_6.htm for a great explanation of the words to the Hail Mary.
I can and do kneel in front of Mary and pray directly to God, the only thing going through my head well kneeling in front of a statue is my desire to love and worship the Lord.
Peace,
Mary
Can you honestly process it when you have 200 people asking you things all at the same moment? No, you cannot. Mary is just another human being. She cannot either, especially if she is doing the things in heaven that God tells us through His word that we humans will be doing when we get there. You attribute to her qualities she cannot have, and reverence her as you do God, if not more.
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RE: Worship Statues? - 1/5/2008 9:46:45 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 298
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
Can you honestly process it when you have 200 people asking you things all at the same moment? No, you cannot. Mary is just another human being. She cannot either, especially if she is doing the things in heaven that God tells us through His word that we humans will be doing when we get there. quote:
J-M-J
Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. Example - Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."
If the saints are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers and they intercede for us.
Some might argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. This argument however only strengthens the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers because it would mean then that the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!
quote:
You attribute to her qualities she cannot have, and reverence her as you do God, if not more.
I have not attributed to her any qualities not expressed in the scripture.
You cannot hear my prayers so you have no idea what my level of reverence is for the Blessed Mother. I will say this tonight I attended Mass and consumed the body and blood, soul and divinity of the lord in the Eucharist How could I EVER EVER show anything more reverence then this!!
Pax,
Mary
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