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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 3:20:05 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 675
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KJB,
Your Prayer Questions
quote:
Speak to us continually! And obtain for us the grace
obtain for us, obtain meaning Mary doesn't have them to give freely as she wishes, but rather as God wills.
quote:
With your prayer, obtain justice for us. Safeguard peace in the whole world!
"With your prayer" - well if you think prayer to the saints and Mary is okay as Catholics do, just seams nice that we would ask Mary to pray for peace.
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 3:32:59 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
"With your prayer" - well if you think prayer to the saints and Mary is okay as Catholics do, just seams nice that we would ask Mary to pray for peace.
Excuse me, but where do you get the idea it is OK to pray to dead folks, who have departed this earth?
And how do you know that the Saints you pray to are in Heaven; and not somewhere else?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 3:43:07 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
And Mary would not have the role of Mediatrix at all, except that Christ exercised His role as Mediator perfectly in her case.
Help me out with this one, if you will, Mary.
What exactly does this mean, and who made this determination? Also, I am wondering why there is supposition that Christ would need or desire help. As always, thanks!
 Good Question Wes, and how are you?
I copied and pasted part of an article in that post to make my point about Mary's role as Mediatrix not Mediator, I posted the link. Honestly I am not sure were the author (a lay Catholic as far as I can tell) is going with that.
As far as Christ needing and desiring help. Mary assisted with Christs mediation from the moment she said yes to God, God needed, and I would guess desired that yes as well.
Mary
Sorry a little short, baby is awake and not really a happy camper, pray for teeth!
I edited the other post 
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 3:49:10 PM
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Tantum_Ergo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Excuse me, but where do you get the idea it is OK to pray to dead folks, who have departed this earth?
Hello RC,
God is the God of the living, not the dead. Lk 10:38
God bless you RC
_____________________________
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 4:23:15 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
As far as Christ needing and desiring help. Mary assisted with Christs mediation from the moment she said yes to God, God needed, and I would guess desired that yes as well.
I think that's a wishful jump. God doesn't need anyone's help.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 6:32:45 PM
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turretinfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit quote:
ORIGINAL: turretinfan
I know that the dogma of co-mediation hasn't been formally defined yet, but don't you accept Mary as a mediator? As far as Mary's mediation - "The Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men originates not in any inner necessity but in the disposition of God. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it" (Lumen gentium, n. 60). Yes, but: quote:
The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. - Leo XIII, Iucunda Semper, Section 2, 1894.
And again: quote:
But, for the enlightening of men's minds, we must above all ask for special help from heaven. Therefore, to our united action, Venerable Brethren, we must join prayer; and let it be a prayer that is general, constant, and fervent: a prayer that will offer gentle violence to the heart of God, and render Him merciful to Italy our country, so that He may avert from it every calamity, especially that which would be the most terrible - the loss of faith. - Let us take as our mediatrix with God the most glorious VIRGIN MARY, the invincible Queen of the Rosary, Who has such great power over the forces of hell, and has so many times made Italy feel the effects of Her maternal love. - Let us also with confidence have recourse to the holy Apostles PETER and PAUL, who subjected this blessed land to the faith, sanctified it by their labours, and bathed it in their blood. - Leo XIII, "Dall Alto," Section 19, 1890
And further: quote:
In penetrating that mystery, the Blessed Virgin Mary, united with the Redeemer, comes to our assistance because "when we celebrate the Holy Mass, the Mother of the Son of God is in our midst and introduces us to the mystery of His redemptive sacrifice. Thus, she is the mediatrix of all the grace flowing from this sacrifice to the Church and to all the faithful". Indeed, "Mary was associated with the priestly sacrifice of Christ in a singular way by sharing His will to save the world through the Cross. - Instruction ordered by John Paul II, 2002
or, as JP2 himself quoted with approval in 1997: quote:
"By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix" (Lumen gentium, n. 62). - John Paul II, General Audience 24 September 1997, Section 4
So, I'm not quite sure what to make of your comment. Do you accept Mary as a mediatrix or do you disagree with the popes identified above (I don't think most Roman Catholics would consider those documents identified above as necessarily infallible).
-TurretinFan
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 7:20:46 PM
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Tantum_Ergo
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turretinfan,
Would you mind providing the link where you got those quotes? Feel free to PM me the link if you want.
God bless you
_____________________________
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 7:26:02 PM
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Tantum_Ergo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think that's a wishful jump. God doesn't need anyone's help.
stellaluna,
Jesus did give His Apostles the command to make disciples of all nations (Matt. 28:16-20). Do you believe God needed their help? Do you think God still needs our help to carry out the great commission? Or did I misread your statement?
God bless you
_____________________________
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 7:45:26 PM
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stellaluna
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I see a difference in God commanding us to do something and Him needing us to further His kingdom.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/22/2009 8:16:34 PM
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KingJamesBond
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Catholicandloveit,
quote:
Do you speak to people in the same manner in which you pray? I don't but maybe thats just me.
I dont pray to people in the first place, and thats just me, and I certainly dont consider human beings to be queens or kings of the universe.
quote:
Mary merely assists Christ. Mary participates in Christ’s mediation, but she herself does not mediate.
Assists where.....and how? Assists Him to rule and manage the universe? And this is in Scripture, where?
Mary assists Jesus Christ as we speak......and with what?
Seems like another RCC fantasy.
quote:
Mary does not mediate, not even in a subordinate or auxiliary way.
More contradictions.
"Mary, Our Mother, Mediator of Life
Immaculate Heart of Mary"
http://wau.org/resources/article/re16/
The RCC shows by their actions that she does mediate between men and Jesus Christ.....and that is one of the reasons why people pray to her.
I can also dig up quotes from popes that say so.
Some people also assume she has the power alone to grant things and that is why people go to her asking her to grant things.
Just pray to Mary, and she supposedly goes to Jesus Christ on mans behalf as if she has more pull with Him......sort of like she has control over Him and directs what He does.
I know the drill. 
quote:
Mary does not mediate, she merely assists the One who does mediate. In no way and in no sense of the word is Mary a mediator.
If she does not mediate, why go to her? If she has no power, why not go straight to the One with the power? Is there more favor by going to Mary first to come to Jesus Christ?
What is she.....like a nagging mother that nags her Son to do things He would not normally be willing to do?
The real issue is that the RCC assumes that Mary has power and control over Jesus Christ and that is why they pray to her.....they think to control Him through her.
It is about "man control" and not being content with "God control"........totally unbiblical.
Why cant people just submit and pray to Him and claim they are happy with the way He runs things?
quote:
People are killed everyday, would that also show how powerless God is. Careful there friend.
Yeah.....but I dont pray for people not to be killed.....popes and catholics do that sort of stuff.......I pray for Gods will.
So much for your Marian super power protection.........
Like I said, she is futile and helpless.......oh......and it is proven.
quote:
"With your prayer" - well if you think prayer to the saints and Mary is okay as Catholics do, just seams nice that we would ask Mary to pray for peace.
That was not the prayer.
The prayer was for her to: obtain justice for us. Safeguard peace in the whole world!
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 6:54:43 AM
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KingJamesBond
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Look at this prayer from pope Pope Pius XII
Prayer to Mary, Queen
From the depths of this vale of tears where sorrowing humanity makes weary progress -- through the surges of the this sea of ours endlessly buffeted by the winds of passion -- we raise our eyes to you, O most beloved Mother Mary, to be comforted by the contemplation of your glory and to hail you as Queen of heaven and earth, Queen of mankind.
With legitimate filial pride, we wish to exalt your queenship and to recognize it as due to the sovereign excellence of your whole being, O dearest one, truly mother of him who is King by right, by inheritance and by conquest.
Reign, O Mother and Queen, by showing us the path of holiness and by guiding and assisting us that we may never stray from it.
In the heights of heaven you exercise your primacy over the choirs of angels who acclaim you as their sovereign, and over the legions of saints who delight in beholding your dazzling beauty. So, too, reign over the entire human race, above all by opening the path of faith to those who do not yet know your Divine Son.
Reign over the Church, which acknowledges and extols your gentle dominion and has recourse to you as a safe refuge amid the calamities of our day. Reign especially over that part of the Church which is persecuted and oppressed; give it strength to bear adversity, constancy never to yield under unjust compulsion, light to avoid falling into the snares of the enemy, firmness to resist overt attack, and at every moment unwavering faithfulness to your kingdom.
Reign over men's minds, that they may seek only what is true; over their wills, that they may follow solely what is good; over their hearts, that they may love nothing but what you yourself love.
Reign over individuals and over families, as well as over societies and nations; over the assemblies of the powerful, the counsels of the wise, as over the simple aspirations of the humble.
Reign in the streets and in the squares, in the cities and the villages, in the valleys and in the mountains, in the air, on land and on the sea; and hear the pious prayers of all those who recognize that yours is a reign of mercy, in which every petition is heard, every sorrow comforted, every misfortune relieved, every infirmity healed, and in which, at a gesture from your gentle hands, from death itself there arises smiling life.
Obtain for us that all who now in every corner of the world acclaim and hail you Queen and Lady may one day in heaven enjoy the fullness of your kingdom in the vision of your Divine Son, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit, live and reign forever and ever. Amen.
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 10:52:11 AM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 675
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quote:
ORIGINAL: turretinfan
So, I'm not quite sure what to make of your comment. Do you accept Mary as a mediatrix or do you disagree with the popes identified above (I don't think most Roman Catholics would consider those documents identified above as necessarily infallible).
-TurretinFan
TurretinFan,
I am not quite sure what to make of your question as I quoted the Lumen gentium, and so did you, I accept Mary's role as mediatrix and I agree with the your quotes, I don't see the disagreement between the two. I am functioning on little sleep so if there is some elephant in the post that I am missing sorry.
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 11:16:29 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
quote:
Mary merely assists Christ. Mary participates in Christ’s mediation, but she herself does not mediate.
Assists where.....and how? And this is in Scripture, where?
Are we not all called to say yes to Christ and to live our lives in such away as to bring glory and honor to Christ. How much more was asked of Mary, which she said yes to and assisted in. She gave birth to our lord, having given birth I can tell you she assisted!
quote:
quote:
Mary does not mediate, not even in a subordinate or auxiliary way.
More contradictions.
"Mary, Our Mother, Mediator of Life
Immaculate Heart of Mary"
How is it wrong to say mediator of life, what is a mediator - one that mediates, what does it mean to mediate?- occupying a middle position, Did Mary or did she not occupy a middle position between God and His Son as His mother?
quote:
Some people also assume she has the power alone to grant things and that is why people go to her asking her to grant things.
Just pray to Mary, and she supposedly goes to Jesus Christ on mans behalf as if she has more pull with Him......sort of like she has control over Him and directs what He does.
Well if she's going to Jesus she is hardly acting alone.
quote:
If she does not mediate, why go to her? If she has no power, why not go straight to the One with the power? Is there more favor by going to Mary first to come to Jesus Christ?
Why do we ask those on earth to pray for us then?
quote:
The real issue is that the RCC assumes that Mary has power and control over Jesus Christ and that is why they pray to her.....they think to control Him through her.
No you are mistaken here
quote:
Why cant people just submit and pray to Him and claim they are happy with the way He runs things?
No Catholic HAS to pray to Mary or any saint ever, just as we don't have to ask others here on earth to pray for us either.
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 11:18:40 AM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 675
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
Look at this prayer from pope Pope Pius XII
Prayer to Mary, Queen
What a nice prayer thanks for posting.
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 2:30:02 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
Look at this prayer from pope Pope Pius XII
Prayer to Mary, Queen
What a nice prayer thanks for posting.
Pax,
Mary
It reads a little like someone oooing and ahhing over the limosine that brought the President of the United States to town while missing the honored one that arrived.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 2:38:51 PM
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ushalk
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the time has come for us all to seek christ in spirit and in truth. you cant do that seeking out mary and other saints. it will destroy your soul. [perhaps the best thing to do is quit studying in the catholic stuff and start studying the bible.]
god does not wish for any of us to perish. but he cant just let us into heaven when our faith is in mary and the other saints rather than jesus christ.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 3:00:41 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
It reads a little like someone oohing and ahhing over the limosine that brought the President of the United States to town while missing the honored one that arrived.
I would never argue that some prayers to Mary and the Saints are very ooohy and ahhy think of them like love songs, poems or a 5.99 Hallmark card. Why and I ask this sincerely, Why do you think that because we as Catholics love and write wonderful words to Mary, that this causes us to miss the glory and honor due to God?
Pax,
Mary
As I intimated, she was a vessel used to convey God the Son into the world. He, not her, was God with us. And our focus should be on Him, not her.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 3:08:59 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
As I intimated, she was a vessel used to convey God the Son into the world. He, not her, was God with us. And our focus should be on Him, not her.
In your opinion then by appreciating the vessel which brought God to us ='s having no focus or appreciation left for God?
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 3:12:55 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
As I intimated, she was a vessel used to convey God the Son into the world. He, not her, was God with us. And our focus should be on Him, not her.
In your opinion then by appreciating the vessel which brought God to us ='s having no focus or appreciation left for God?
That's not what I said. I meant that the attention given to her should all be given to Him. As she said, "Whatever He says to you, do it."
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 3:19:29 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
That's not what I said. I meant that the attention given to her should all be given to Him. As she said, "Whatever He says to you, do it."
Indeed she did say that, I believe it was when she interceded to her Son on someone's behalf for the 1st time.
So if I understand you correctly showing attention and love to Mary is in your opinion taking away attention from God.
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 8:40:52 PM
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KingJamesBond
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Catholicandloveit,
quote:
Are we not all called to say yes to Christ and to live our lives in such away as to bring glory and honor to Christ. How much more was asked of Mary, which she said yes to and assisted in. She gave birth to our lord, having given birth I can tell you she assisted!
Well you seem to have answered your own question......what would you have said......no?
"Assisted" can go all the way down the blood line to everyone responsible for giving birth to Mary.......but I dont pray to them all as if the are rulers of the universe.
How much more was asked of Mary? Catholics seem to think she gave birth to only one child and my wife gave birth to four. God picked Mary and it was not because she was some sort of paragon of virtue.
quote:
How is it wrong to say mediator of life, what is a mediator - one that mediates, what does it mean to mediate?- occupying a middle position, Did Mary or did she not occupy a middle position between God and His Son as His mother?
Why dont you go back to your other post and figure out why you tried to show me that she was not a mediator? Mary is not supposed to be a mediator between man and Christ and many RCC prayers are to her as if she is. "Oh Mary, draw me closer to Jesus......."
The Father draws.......not Mary.
She is not a mediator in anything.
quote:
Well if she's going to Jesus she is hardly acting alone.
Do you have a problem with going to Jesus or do you think she has more pull than anyone else?
Of course you do.....because the RCC thinks she was born without sin and yada yada yada.....
quote:
Why do we ask those on earth to pray for us then?
I have never asked anybody to pray to a departed human being for me.
quote:
No you are mistaken here
If she has no power.....if she has no pull.....if she cannot influence the will of God......why do so many prayers insinuate she does?
When people in the RCC pray to Mary to bring world peace or peace in the middle east.......they have no idea of what they are doing.
Jesus specifically declared He did not come to bring that kind of peace to this world.
Besides.....is it not better to pray to God and simply declare that we do not understand all the invisible purposes for any specific war........but whether the war needs to continue or cease is all in the hands of God and we are content with the results?
The prayers of a righteous man is much.......but a righteous man lives by faith in God......not faith in Mary....but faith in God. And when a man has faith in God.....a man will not pray for anything other than what God wills. That means when a man prays for the will of God even though the man might not understand how God will work......the man is content with the will of God because the man has faith that God knows exactly what He is doing.
quote:
No Catholic HAS to pray to Mary or any saint ever, just as we don't have to ask others here on earth to pray for us either.
Well, that is good news.
quote:
What a nice prayer thanks for posting.
That prayer is nothing but foolishness and perverse and it proves that people dont just go to her as if she is a mediator helping the King rule His creation.
That prayer is more than attesting that she said yes to having baby or was a good mother.
It actually uses words showing that she has dominion not only over the church....but minds, hearts, wills.....etc. And this prayer comes from the RCC which declares men have free-wills!
She does not reign over individuals and over families....she is not sovereign over the angels.
That has to be one of the most disgusting prayers I can imagine.
I think I am just about done discussing this topic. 
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 8:52:53 PM
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KingJamesBond
Posts: 3711
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Eutychus,
quote:
It reads a little like someone oooing and ahhing over the limosine that brought the President of the United States to town while missing the honored one that arrived.
It sure does.
quote:
As I intimated, she was a vessel used to convey God the Son into the world. He, not her, was God with us. And our focus should be on Him, not her.
Great point.
That prayer conveys some disturbing concepts.
Mary Queen.....hail you as Queen of heaven and earth, Queen of mankind.....we wish to exalt your queenship and to recognize it as due to the sovereign excellence of your whole being.....Reign, O Mother and Queen, by showing us the path of holiness and by guiding and assisting us (and I thought she just assisted in having a baby).....In the heights of heaven you exercise your primacy over the choirs of angels who acclaim you as their sovereign, and over the legions of saints......So, too, reign over the entire human race, above all by opening the path of faith to those who do not yet know your Divine Son......Reign over the Church, which acknowledges and extols your gentle dominion
This stuff is......corrupt.
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 10:55:07 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 675
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
God picked Mary and it was not because she was some sort of paragon of virtue.
Your free to your interpretation of scripture. I wonder why you think then, if it wasn't for her virtue why was Mary picked by God, was she just some random girl who happened to be at the right place when God closed his eyes and pointed?
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Why don't you go back to your other post and figure out why you tried to show me that she was not a mediator? Mary is not supposed to be a mediator between man and Christ and many RCC prayers are to her as if she is. "Oh Mary, draw me closer to Jesus......."
There are many ways one can be a mediator, I said Mary was a mediator between God and His Son in her role as mother.
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Do you have a problem with going to Jesus or do you think she has more pull than anyone else?
I have no problem going to Jesus and do often, I have no problem going straight to the father, or the holy spirit either. I have no problems asking the faithful to pray for me or praying for them.
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Of course you do.....
Glad you think you know me so well. I think that if the answer is no no matter who is praying the answer will be no.
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because the RCC thinks she was born without sin and yada yada yada.....
and you think she was just some random person yada, yada, yada .....
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The prayers of a righteous man is much.......but a righteous man lives by faith in God......not faith in Mary....but faith in God. And when a man has faith in God.....a man will not pray for anything other than what God wills. That means when a man prays for the will of God even though the man might not understand how God will work......the man is content with the will of God because the man has faith that God knows exactly what He is doing.
So when we ask Mary to pray for us are you insinuating that Mary is not righteous?
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I think I am just about done discussing this topic.
Well we agree on this.
Mary
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Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/23/2009 11:06:07 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4170
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
God picked Mary and it was not because she was some sort of paragon of virtue.
Your free to your interpretation of scripture. I wonder why you think then, if it wasn't for her virtue why was Mary picked by God, was she just some random girl who happened to be at the right place when God closed his eyes and pointed?
Pretty much. While she may have been virtuous, if it wasn't her, it would have been another girl. Of course, then we'd be sitting here in a "Praying to Jennifer" thread.
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quote:
The prayers of a righteous man is much.......but a righteous man lives by faith in God......not faith in Mary....but faith in God. And when a man has faith in God.....a man will not pray for anything other than what God wills. That means when a man prays for the will of God even though the man might not understand how God will work......the man is content with the will of God because the man has faith that God knows exactly what He is doing.
So when we ask Mary to pray for us are you insinuating that Mary is not righteous?
I'm still trying to figure out why she is considered so righteous. After giving birth she went on to do a bunch of stuff we don't even know about because she's never mentioned again. For me, that seriously diminishes her biblical "status." If she was that important all those prayers would be in scripture and available to everyone, not just members of the RCC through its own writings.
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