|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 6:47:24 AM
|
|
|
turretinfan
Posts: 5308
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life by the Power of the Spirit
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tantum_Ergo
turretinfan,
Would you mind providing the link where you got those quotes? Feel free to PM me the link if you want.
God bless you
If I recall correctly I got them all of the official Vatican website www.vatican.va
-TurretinFan
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 7:58:49 AM
|
|
|
KingJamesBond
Posts: 3689
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: online
|
stellaluna,
quote:
I'm still trying to figure out why she is considered so righteous. After giving birth she went on to do a bunch of stuff we don't even know about because she's never mentioned again. For me, that seriously diminishes her biblical "status." If she was that important all those prayers would be in scripture and available to everyone, not just members of the RCC through its own writings.
Thats a good point.
RCC prayers to Mary are the way they are because of the way they think of her.
They suppose she is queen of the universe, sovereign over mans minds, hearts, wills, reigns over the church....the list goes on and on.
Look at some of these words;
Mary, our Queen, Holy Mother of God, we beg you to hear our prayer.
Make our hearts overflow with Divine grace and resplendent with heavenly wisdom.
Render them strong with your might and rich in virtue.
Pour down upon us the gift of mercy so that we may obtain the pardon of our sins.
Help us to live in such a way as to merit the glory and bliss of heaven.
May this be granted us by your Son Jesus Who has exalted you above the angels, has crowned you as Queen, and has seated you with Him forever on his refulgent throne.
Amen
I guess Jesus gives her some sort of super power?
Here is another one;
Mother of All Men and Women and of All Peoples
O Mother of all men and women, and of all peoples, you who know all their sufferings and their hopes, you who have a mother's awareness of all the struggles between good and evil, between light and darkness, which afflict the modern world, accept the cry which we, moved by the Holy Spirit, address directly to your heart. Embrace with the love of the Mother and Handmaid of the Lord, this human world of ours, which we entrust and consecrate to you, for we are full of concern for the earthly and eternal destiny of individuals and peoples.
Continues here....... http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/prayers/jppray01.html#5
If those are hallmark cards.....I aint buying any.
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 9:28:14 AM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 672
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
The Title of Mary as Queen a Catholic View-
In the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother, an honor which reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne.
The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation,
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)
Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.
[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)
That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom, though it is present on earth in the Church, but a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ.
Taken from www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/mother.htm
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 10:29:45 AM
|
|
|
ushalk
Posts: 312
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
|
alright we can go through one another to get to god. guys, we can completely bypass jesus and what he did. if you do not believe me then just ask a catholic. they have read the catechism, we all know that is really the true word of god. so it does not matter what the holy bible (gods word) states. the catholic catechism is 100% man written and complete truth.
throw your bibles away and pick the catechism so that we can have the real truth.
yes this is all sarcastic. lets be real here. jesus christ the only mediator between man and god. this is gods word. mary and the saints did what the lord had them to do. but it is chriast that does and did all things for us and salvation. no one else can save us forgive and did not die on the cross for us.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 11:08:02 AM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 672
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
throw your bibles away
quote:
jesus christ the only mediator between man and god. this is gods word. mary and the saints did what the lord had them to do. but it is chriast that does and did all things for us and salvation. no one else can save us forgive and did not die on the cross for us.
Well here is my last go of trying to explain the Catholic view of mediation in regards to Mary
Christ is the only mediator between God and man. 1) There is only one mediator who is such by very nature, being both true God and true man. 2) There is only one mediator whose whose work is necessary, without whom, in God's plan, there could be no salvation. 3) There is only one mediator who depends on no one else for power.
Mary differs on all three counts. 1) Mary only a creature, but it was appropriate that God be freely choose her as Mediatrix because he had made her Mother of the God-man, the Redeemer--it was she who on behalf of the whole human race consented to God's plan of salvation by proclaiming herself the handmaid of the Lord. 2) Mary was associated with her Son by the free decision of the Father, a decision which we cannot ignore. 3) Her whole ability to do anything comes entirely from her Son, and hence we are not contradicting Lumen gentium # 62 which says no creature can be ever counted together with Him.
From www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 2:02:38 PM
|
|
|
ushalk
Posts: 312
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
|
but you are putting her just as high and even higher than god in many ways. she can be no refuge to sinners or sin. she is not gods mother which is on this forum as well. she has nothing to do with our salvation. 3 hail marys is not going to cleanse you of your sin.
where does this stuff come from. is there an example of an apostle or christ praying to mary or the saints dead or alive. i think that with in itself is proof enough to know that it is not real or correct to pray to the saints or mary. i am a saint are you going to pray to me?
not to mention, you are angry with my sarcasm concerning throwing the bible away. but everything you are claiming here is out of the catholic catechism. not one thing is in the bible that you are claiming here. so what are you trying to claim and where is it truly coming from. because the word of god does not back it up anywhere.
one last thing for some thought. traditions are not a part of christianity. rather it is a part of religion. a huge difference between the 2. christiaanity is a personal relationship with jesus christ. it is not the practice of the same things week in and week out. it is all about christ and christ alone. jesus states those that accept me those that pray to me. nothing is stated of your claims in the word of god and definitly not by he who is the word of god.
< Message edited by ushalk -- 6/24/2009 2:28:00 PM >
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/24/2009 3:18:25 PM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 672
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
she is not gods mother which is on this forum as well.
CCC 495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).145
quote:
3 hail marys is not going to cleanse you of your sin.
When did I say it would.
quote:
is there an example of an apostle or christ praying to mary
No lucky guys they could just talk to her and ask her to pray for them.
quote:
i am a saint are you going to pray to me?
are you in heaven (hows the Internet connection there??) I do ask my family and friends who have died to pray for me.
quote:
you are angry with my sarcasm concerning throwing the bible away
Just tired of the old line that Catholics don't read the bible I think I am going to change my Sig to say "I am Catholic because I have read the bible." Believe it or not I have in my house 1 Catechism and 5 bibles (5 that we use, there are at least 2 more packed away because they are falling apart from use but I am not going to throw them away so for now they are in a box until they can be repaired.
quote:
not one thing is in the bible that you are claiming here.
We disagree.
quote:
one last thing for some thought. traditions are not a part of Christianity.
Any biblical proof of that?
quote:
Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Being a Christian is having a personal relationship with Christ yes.
quote:
nothing is stated of your claims in the word of god and definitely not by he who is the word of god.
I am starting to wonder just what you think I am claiming.
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/25/2009 2:16:51 PM
|
|
|
ushalk
Posts: 312
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
she is not gods mother which is on this forum as well.
CCC 495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).145
quote:
3 hail marys is not going to cleanse you of your sin.
When did I say it would.
quote:
is there an example of an apostle or christ praying to mary
No lucky guys they could just talk to her and ask her to pray for them.
quote:
i am a saint are you going to pray to me?
are you in heaven (hows the Internet connection there??) I do ask my family and friends who have died to pray for me.
quote:
you are angry with my sarcasm concerning throwing the bible away
Just tired of the old line that Catholics don't read the bible I think I am going to change my Sig to say "I am Catholic because I have read the bible." Believe it or not I have in my house 1 Catechism and 5 bibles (5 that we use, there are at least 2 more packed away because they are falling apart from use but I am not going to throw them away so for now they are in a box until they can be repaired.
quote:
not one thing is in the bible that you are claiming here.
We disagree.
quote:
one last thing for some thought. traditions are not a part of Christianity.
Any biblical proof of that?
quote:
Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Being a Christian is having a personal relationship with Christ yes.
quote:
nothing is stated of your claims in the word of god and definitely not by he who is the word of god.
I am starting to wonder just what you think I am claiming.
Pax,
Mary
your claims of praying to the saints in heaven. your claim that marry is a refuge to sinners. you may have read your bible but did you ask christ in faith to give you revelation or did you go to a man and receieve what ever he told you.
yes there are scriptures to proclaim that christianity is not mans rules or traditions. i will shatre them with you tomarrow.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/25/2009 7:33:48 PM
|
|
|
ForeverRedeemed
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
Well here is my last go of trying to explain the Catholic view of mediation in regards to Mary
Christ is the only mediator between God and man. 1) There is only one mediator who is such by very nature, being both true God and true man. 2) There is only one mediator whose whose work is necessary, without whom, in God's plan, there could be no salvation. 3) There is only one mediator who depends on no one else for power.
Mary differs on all three counts. 1) Mary only a creature, but it was appropriate that God be freely choose her as Mediatrix because he had made her Mother of the God-man, the Redeemer--it was she who on behalf of the whole human race consented to God's plan of salvation by proclaiming herself the handmaid of the Lord. 2) Mary was associated with her Son by the free decision of the Father, a decision which we cannot ignore. 3) Her whole ability to do anything comes entirely from her Son, and hence we are not contradicting Lumen gentium # 62 which says no creature can be ever counted together with Him.
From www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm
Pax,
Mary
Mary,
Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere or even if it appears silly to ask, but what do you mean by the word "mediatrix"? Is that just another word for mediator? I'm confused by it - above you show Christ as the Mediator between God and man (the verse in Timothy says that there is only ONE mediator between God and man, the Man, Christ Jesus) and then mention Mary as the mediatrix. I am wondering what that means and going to check out the link you posted.
What is your understanding of Mary's proclamation of being "the handmaid of the Lord"?
Thanks! 
_____________________________
<----- My Buddy!
"I've been changed from the creature that once I was,
I am no longer in bondage, I've been plunged 'neath the flow -
I'm washed whiter than snow . . .
I am FOREVER REDEEMED!!!!!"
http://goodnewsnow.info
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/25/2009 9:06:58 PM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 672
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Mary,
Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere or even if it appears silly to ask, but what do you mean by the word "mediatrix"? Is that just another word for mediator? I'm confused by it - above you show Christ as the Mediator between God and man (the verse in Timothy says that there is only ONE mediator between God and man, the Man, Christ Jesus) and then mention Mary as the mediatrix. I am wondering what that means and going to check out the link you posted.
What is your understanding of Mary's proclamation of being "the handmaid of the Lord"?
Thanks!
Not silly at all, and to be honest I am having a hard time trying to explain this mediatrix/mediator role of Mary's understandably here on this thread (its all straight in my head  ), I will give it a go again and answer the hadmaid of the lord question too with in the next few days.
Have a wonderful weekend!
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/26/2009 3:46:27 AM
|
|
|
kelman
Posts: 5030
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
so now we are right back where we started. christ is not enough so you need mary to. i dont know i feel as though christ is all i need. i am content with him and him alone. i know that he will help me through anything that i am going through or could go through.
Without Mary Christ would not have been born into this world, And you know this precisely how? God would somehow be "stumped" as to what to do next?
quote:
As far as Christ needing and desiring help. Mary assisted with Christs mediation from the moment she said yes to God, God needed, and I would guess desired that yes as well. The Creator needs the help of His creation? Again, you know this precisely how? God may choose to use His creation to do His will but never think God "needs" anything...for that is truly not the God of the Bible.
quote:
I would never argue that some prayers to Mary and the Saints are very ooohy and ahhy think of them like love songs, poems or a 5.99 Hallmark card. Why and I ask this sincerely, Why do you think that because we as Catholics love and write wonderful words to Mary, that this causes us to miss the glory and honor due to God?
Because every "ooh and ah" is stealing from God - the only worthy One. Rev 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
quote:
I have no problem going to Jesus and do often, I have no problem going straight to the father, or the holy spirit either. I have no problems asking the faithful to pray for me or praying for them.
You still fail to see the difference between the Creator and His creatures. You lump them all together....from your vantage praying to one is equally as good as praying to another.
Why, when you have no scriptural permission to pray in that manner? You cannot change the fact that in Scripture, God shows prayer directed only to Him....unless, we are reading about the pagans.
_____________________________
"We do not have a single sentence that is authoritatively from the Lord, outside of what is in the written word of the New Testament. To appeal to a tradition for authority when Holy God did not give it is futile."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/26/2009 11:51:30 AM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 672
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
What is your understanding of Mary's proclamation of being "the handmaid of the Lord"?
Thanks!
Luke 1:38
Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word." Then the angel departed from her.
I understand this proclamation to be one of acceptance, of not only a pregnancy or the role of mother, but also an understanding that she will serve and assist her Son who is the Lord, and and understand that well her role requires her participation, service and assistance what is to be done will be done according to Him who a few lines later, Mary proclaims as her savior.
Pax,
Mary
It is rather warm here too although we are only in the mid 90's it is muggy. Big thunderstorms tomorrow are supposed to cool things down, and I'll take em - even on Saturday! Still working on the other part of your question.
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/26/2009 2:12:14 PM
|
|
|
ushalk
Posts: 312
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
|
i think it is a humble servant attitude that marry felt unworthy she was yet honored that god chose her. let it be done to me as your word says. not because i am worthy to be prayed to and put above my lord. she was a servant as any of us are.
< Message edited by ushalk -- 6/26/2009 4:01:01 PM >
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/26/2009 4:35:45 PM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 672
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Mary,
Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere or even if it appears silly to ask, but what do you mean by the word "mediatrix"? Is that just another word for mediator? I'm confused by it - above you show Christ as the Mediator between God and man (the verse in Timothy says that there is only ONE mediator between God and man, the Man, Christ Jesus) and then mention Mary as the mediatrix. I am wondering what that means and going to check out the link you posted.
ForeverRedeemed,
Yes a Mediatrix is a woman who is a mediator. I was trying, albeit unsuccessfully to explain the difference in Mary's mediation as Mediatrix and the Mediator. I was talking with my husband about this topic and then had him read the thread and was nicely told that I am not doing a great job of making my point in writing on this one.  So let me try this -
The word "mediator" generally has two meanings. In the primary sense it refers to a principal who intervenes between opposed parties in order to reconcile them. Regarding our redemption, the only person who fits this definition is Jesus Christ. Jesus alone effectively interposes between the estranged parties, God and the entire human race. Only Jesus was capable of achieving a reconciliation with God. As Paul writes, "There is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5). This is the belief of most Christians. It has always been the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
There is, however, a less strict sense in which Christians from the earliest times have understood the idea of mediation. This is the idea of a subordinate mediation by which we participate in the mediation of Jesus Christ. It is a mediation that is effective through, with, and in Christ. The subordinate mediator never stands alone, but is always dependent on Jesus.
More on this found here - www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0005fea1.asp
Where does this put Mary's mediation?
The Church knows and teaches that all the saving influences of the Blessed Virgin on mankind originate . . . from the divine pleasure. They flow forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rest on his mediation, depend entirely on it, and draw all their power from it. In no way do they impede the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. Rather, they foster this union. This saving influence is sustained by the Holy Spirit, who, just as he overshadowed the Virgin Mary when he began in her the divine motherhood, in a similar way constantly sustains her solicitude for the brothers and sisters of her Son. In effect, Mary’s mediation is intimately linked with her motherhood. It possesses a specifically maternal character, which distinguishes it from the mediation of the other creatures who in various and always subordinate ways share in the one mediation of Christ, although her own mediation is also a shared mediation. In fact, while it is true that no creature could ever be classed with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer, at the same time the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise among creatures to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this unique source. And thus the one goodness of God is in reality communicated diversely to his creatures. . . With the redeeming death of her Son, the maternal mediation of the handmaid of the Lord took on a universal dimension, for the work of redemption embraces the whole of humanity. Thus there is manifested in a singular way the efficacy of the one and universal mediation of Christ between God and men. Mary’s cooperation shares, in its subordinate character, in the universality of the mediation of the Redeemer, the one Mediator. - From www.catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0712fea1sb2.asp
Interesting article here on Mary's role as well www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp
From the Catechism -
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
667 Jesus Christ, having entered the sanctuary of heaven once and for all, intercedes constantly for us as the mediator who assures us of the permanent outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
771 "The one mediator, Christ, established and ever sustains here on earth his holy Church, the community of faith, hope, and charity, as a visible organization through which he communicates truth and grace to all men."184
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512
970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514
I hope this all helps give a clearer picture of the whats and whys of the churches teaching on this.
Mary 
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/26/2009 7:17:57 PM
|
|
|
facedown
Posts: 843
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
|
regarding "mediator" as it may, or may not relate to "saints & mary" - it may be usefull for some (who oppose) this notion in relation to how one prays for another, or is prayed for by another.
as catholicandloveit explained this is "mediation", and yet, it is not "mediation".
pax
_____________________________
-| you are the ones who justify yourselves |-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/26/2009 7:28:54 PM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4177
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
|
Definitely a clearer picture...but not a better one.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 6/27/2009 10:45:54 AM
|
|
|
ushalk
Posts: 312
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
|
catholicandloveit- here is one of the scripture that i was telling you about. matthew 15:9.
please share your thoughts on this one?
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 7/6/2009 10:10:41 PM
|
|
|
Doghouse
Posts: 1144
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
|
To understand how Catholics view Mary in the role of being the mother of Jesus, the first question to ask and answer is:
- Did Mary have to agree, assent, or obey to bear Jesus, or was she programmed, forced, coerced or other involuntarily bear our Savior?
Answer that question the way a Catholic does, and all the other pieces fall into place.
The "co-mediator" has as much to do with translating out of Latin as anything. If you order "Chili con carne", the "con" is translated as "with". You get a little meat with your chili.
Translate this root out of lating to English, and you get "co", as in "co-pilot". Mary's role and title in this regard that Jesus is begotten, not made. Jesus could not be "without" Mary, so Jesus was born "with" Mary. God's plan came together "with" mMary.
_____________________________
I, then, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 7/7/2009 10:14:50 AM
|
|
|
Doghouse
Posts: 1144
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
|
quote:
catholicandloveit- here is one of the scripture that i was telling you about. matthew 15:9.
please share your thoughts on this one?
...my thoughts on this verse is why did Matthew shorten the Marcan list of 13 contained in Mark 7:21-22.
What's the point you are trying to make?
_____________________________
I, then, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 7/7/2009 10:23:23 AM
|
|
|
ushalk
Posts: 312
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
quote:
catholicandloveit- here is one of the scripture that i was telling you about. matthew 15:9.
please share your thoughts on this one?
...my thoughts on this verse is why did Matthew shorten the Marcan list of 13 contained in Mark 7:21-22.
What's the point you are trying to make?
my point is that catholics do everything by mans traditions and commandments and these are not found in the word of god. therefore all they are is mans commands of a twisted truth not found in the truth.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 7/8/2009 4:33:01 AM
|
|
|
kelman
Posts: 5030
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
To understand how Catholics view Mary in the role of being the mother of Jesus, the first question to ask and answer is:
- Did Mary have to agree, assent, or obey to bear Jesus, or was she programmed, forced, coerced or other involuntarily bear our Savior?
Answer that question the way a Catholic does, and all the other pieces fall into place.
The "co-mediator" has as much to do with translating out of Latin as anything. If you order "Chili con carne", the "con" is translated as "with". You get a little meat with your chili.
Translate this root out of lating to English, and you get "co", as in "co-pilot". Mary's role and title in this regard that Jesus is begotten, not made. Jesus could not be "without" Mary, so Jesus was born "with" Mary. God's plan came together "with" mMary.
Pure blasphemy to say that Jesus "couldn't be" without Mary!
These Marian doctrines, along with praying to saints, do nothing but rob God of His glory. The Lord Jesus Christ says to pray: "Our Father..." but RC says to pray: "Hail Mary..."
_____________________________
"We do not have a single sentence that is authoritatively from the Lord, outside of what is in the written word of the New Testament. To appeal to a tradition for authority when Holy God did not give it is futile."
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
