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B_Pascal -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (6/18/2005 4:20:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rrtt11 Like Bush or not the alternative was far worse. I shudder to think about a Kerry presidency. On a side note, I have no clue how christians can be liberals as their policies seem to be so anti-christian I disagree, my belief is that they would both have been equally bad but in different ways. Honestly, it was a hard election (thank God for the third parties lol)

oopsmartin -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (6/19/2005 2:36:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: B_Pascal quote: ORIGINAL: rrtt11 Like Bush or not the alternative was far worse. I shudder to think about a Kerry presidency. On a side note, I have no clue how christians can be liberals as their policies seem to be so anti-christian I disagree, my belief is that they would both have been equally bad but in different ways. Honestly, it was a hard election (thank God for the third parties lol) quote: I disagree, my belief is that they would both have been equally bad but in different ways. Honestly, it was a hard election (thank God for the third parties lol) boy do I agree with that.

oopsmartin -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (6/19/2005 2:41:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jhud quote: Hey, if you listen to all the republicans whine, you'd think that they dont control the judiciary either. Perhaps because they don't? [:D]

girlforjesus -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (6/19/2005 6:10:04 PM)
Disobedience to God's commandments of Governmental Biblical responsibilities-- I believe G. Bush is part of the corruption in govt and neither better or worse than Kerry or any other politiician who has been there. The Bible is being deleted, and eliminated from the Constitution. The corruption in govt. is willingly disobedient to God's commandments and it is pretty obvious who they are and what they stand for speaks for that.....The corruption even has Christians divided by thinking they need to be in poliitical parties. No one group can have the strength to stand because a house divided cannot stand. United is considered conspiracy. (and those who have attempted unity are either killed and/or imprisoned and dehumanized as criminals) Jesus who overcame by totally teaching, love, forgiveness, charity, generosity and all Heavenly things by following God's will presented the example and commanded we follow that example. . It is going to worse before it gets better because the Bible says so and Jesus is not a liar. Jesus is the leader and breaks no commandments. Yet,,,justice and mercy is going to rule so how is it they still disobey??? The answer is greed, the love of money and power mongers(setting themselves above our Almighty God) in the upper levels, abusing authority... And we all know where they are headed. That darkness they now wander in unknowingly blinded by their own selfish desires... Oh, then that eternal deep darkness they will even be able to touch and the eternal pain and torment they will feel will be magnified unmeasurably to the pain they have inflicted on the innocent children of God and those whom they have caused to stumble because they have been taken down by the Word. Because Jesus also told us about that too. And, if anyone is feeling a bit down because of the way our nation is headed and the corruption within there is another thread that gives a very detailed version of Hell and I will say this, no one will escape whose sins include all the above. So, hang in there Christians, who struggle daily with these burdens unmercifully poured upon God's children, Jesus our Lord and Saviour is watching and knows all those deeds and already has planned what he was going to do from the very beginning and his plan is already in action......Their fate is sealed. And for those Chrisitians who know they are caused to stumble who work among those in that corruption there is still time to run away, because the Lord Jesus and his children open their arms to you for protection and eternal love. We musn't lose hope just cling to our Lord Saviour, and be not deceived.

girlforjesus -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/10/2005 11:30:44 PM)
To all governmental authorities...................... George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." God Bless All[;)]

Stratplayer -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/11/2005 8:34:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: B_Pascal Honestly I am not in love with Bush's foreign policy it consists of forcing an American style of government on nations that have never in their history pursued that type of government. Iraq doesn't want to be a Democracy, the majority of Iraq (shiite muslims) want an islamic theocracy, they are in power and are already suppressing the tsuni minority. In effect, we are probably setting up an even worse enemy that Saddam was, and not only that, but we are training them too, not too bright IMO. As far as domestic policy, the usual "money fixes everything" tactics are being applied. Having a problem? Throw money at it, that seems to be the standard these days. I agree with you 100%. I have always had the feeling that he wanted to create a democracy in the Middle-East that we could ultimately control, but the people in those countries aren't going for that. From the time the war in Iraq started I just felt that we had no business going over there. First it was WMD, then it was about all the "good" we're doing in Iraq and how the world is a safer place without Sadam. Speaking of Sadam, he became old news rather quickly. And even after capturing him, our soldiers are getting killed and wounded and I have to wonder what for. I believe that these policies will feed the terrorists desire for hatred and make the world a more dangerous place BEFORE Sadam was ever captured. Granted that what he was doing to his own people was wrong, we should not have gone in there and created the mess that we did.

1Chronicles714 -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/12/2005 12:13:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChesterDash quote: ORIGINAL: Jules Archer I can't imagine anyone having a single bad thing to say about George W. Bush. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? I agree with ChesterDash, are you serious?

1Chronicles714 -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/12/2005 12:15:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: B_Pascal quote: ORIGINAL: rrtt11 Like Bush or not the alternative was far worse. I shudder to think about a Kerry presidency. On a side note, I have no clue how christians can be liberals as their policies seem to be so anti-christian I disagree, my belief is that they would both have been equally bad but in different ways. Honestly, it was a hard election (thank God for the third parties lol) Bless you B_Pascal, I'm with with the Libertarian Party....

1Chronicles714 -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/12/2005 12:17:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlforjesus To all governmental authorities...................... George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." God Bless All[;)] I want to know where you found that quote.

Jules Archer -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/18/2005 3:26:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1Chronicles714 quote: ORIGINAL: ChesterDash quote: ORIGINAL: Jules Archer I can't imagine anyone having a single bad thing to say about George W. Bush. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? I agree with ChesterDash, are you serious? You don't mean to say that you think GW has any faults at all, do you? I expect him to be canonized any day now.

Happy_Happy_Lamont -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/18/2005 6:43:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jules Archer I can't imagine anyone having a single bad thing to say about George W. Bush. My sarcasm radar is off the scales here. If they are wrong, then I'm really not sure where to start. quote: ORIGINAL: rrtt11 Like Bush or not the alternative was far worse. I shudder to think about a Kerry presidency. On a side note, I have no clue how christians can be liberals as their policies seem to be so anti-christian Wow this is just humorous... how would Kerry have been far worse? What would he have done that would have been so bad? He actually had plans for his presidency. Bush led us into Iraq a LONG time ago, and we still have no plan for exit, after chaning our objective three times (1. WMD/imminent threat, 2. Liberating the people, 3. Fighting 'terror'). And look at the deficit. He took the largest surplus in US history and turned it into the largest deficit, and it's still growing. We will pay for this one for a long time. As for the Christians can't be liberals argument, why not? Jesus told us to take care of those less fortunate than us. Liberal legislation does this, while conservatives fight tooth and nail against it. Also, liberals have passed legislation so we could all be treated equally, where again, conservatives fought hard to make it not happen. As for pro-life, Bush talks a big game, but what has he done to actually address it? Also, Kerry is pro-life. What Christian values does Bush espouse by lying repeatedly? He has been caught over and over, and people are dying as a result. I could go on all day, but that should be enough for now.

jgarden -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/19/2005 1:52:56 AM)
""When the British came to Baghdad in 1917, they declared that 'We are here as liberators, not occupiers.' That is the same statement the Americans have made," says Ghassan Atiyyah, an expert on the 1920 revolt and head of the Iraq Foundation for Development and Democracy. "Iraqis thought the British were sincere about it, and they proved to have other designs. [Today] Iraqis are asking: 'How could America get rid of Saddam in three weeks, and have no elections in 11 months?' " The Bush Administration appears doomed to make the same mistakes the British made in Iraqi 85 years earlier.

jgarden -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/19/2005 4:45:15 PM)
Go to www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet.asp and check out the connection between cabinet members and former business interests.

Happy_Happy_Lamont -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/19/2005 10:26:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jgarden Go to www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet.asp and check out the connection between cabinet members and former business interests. Agree 100%. It is so sad how this country has been misled. And that's just some of the cabinet members. Look at Bush and Cheney. Oh yeah, Halliburton was irrelevant in the decision to go to Iraq... [:D]

B_Pascal -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/20/2005 2:01:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlforjesus The Bible is being deleted, and eliminated from the Constitution. The corruption in govt. is willingly disobedient to God's commandments and it is pretty obvious who they are and what they stand for speaks for that.....The corruption even has Christians divided by thinking they need to be in poliitical parties. No one group can have the strength to stand because a house divided cannot stand. United is considered conspiracy. (and those who have attempted unity are either killed and/or imprisoned and dehumanized as criminals) Jesus who overcame by totally teaching, love, forgiveness, charity, generosity and all Heavenly things by following God's will presented the example and commanded we follow that example. . It is going to worse before it gets better because the Bible says so and Jesus is not a liar. Jesus is the leader and breaks no commandments. Yet,,,justice and mercy is going to rule so how is it they still disobey??? The answer is greed, the love of money and power mongers(setting themselves above our Almighty God) in the upper levels, abusing authority... And we all know where they are headed. That darkness they now wander in unknowingly blinded by their own selfish desires... Oh, then that eternal deep darkness they will even be able to touch and the eternal pain and torment they will feel will be magnified unmeasurably to the pain they have inflicted on the innocent children of God and those whom they have caused to stumble because they have been taken down by the Word. Because Jesus also told us about that too. And, if anyone is feeling a bit down because of the way our nation is headed and the corruption within there is another thread that gives a very detailed version of Hell and I will say this, no one will escape whose sins include all the above. So, hang in there Christians, who struggle daily with these burdens unmercifully poured upon God's children, Jesus our Lord and Saviour is watching and knows all those deeds and already has planned what he was going to do from the very beginning and his plan is already in action......Their fate is sealed. And for those Chrisitians who know they are caused to stumble who work among those in that corruption there is still time to run away, because the Lord Jesus and his children open their arms to you for protection and eternal love. We musn't lose hope just cling to our Lord Saviour, and be not deceived. anybody else not seeing a point here? I'm just wondering if I'm alone on that one Also, where is/was God in the constitution?

shinerbock -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/20/2005 7:10:26 PM)
some of us christians choose not to waste our vote on either bush or kerry, some of us voted for michael peroutka of the constitution party. why do christians waste their votes on the lesser of 2 evils when the lesser of 2 evils is still evil. soli deo gloria, paul www.constitutionparty.com www.cptexas.org

shinerbock -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/20/2005 7:56:54 PM)
quote: We musn't lose hope just cling to our Lord Saviour kind of sounds like sit back and do nothing. God uses means to accomplish what he has willed. we need to do something about this. we could vote the right person in bit as was the case in several texas counties, people who voted third party their votes didn't count, at least according to county records they did not count. several people i know who voted constitution party, votes did not even show up in their county. the county records said no one voted that way. but several people said i voted that way. so who got their vote bush or kerry. the world may never know. paul

shinerbock -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/20/2005 8:01:09 PM)
Bush is not reason, he is not eloquence-he is force! Like fire, he is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should he be left to irresponsible action. a twist on a quote from george...washington not bush paul

Jules Archer -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 10:04:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shinerbock some of us christians choose not to waste our vote on either bush or kerry, some of us voted for michael peroutka of the constitution party. LOL! What's your definition of wasting a vote?

jad -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 11:25:53 AM)
quote: Jhud: I never said we "played no part" - I said we didn't set up the now Russian government. We of course had a part in the withdrawal of the Soviets from eastern Europe and the subsequent fall of the Soviet government (or more properly, Reagan and Thatcher did); but sixty 'years' (apparently not counting South Korea) is irrelevent, though I do appreciate your unwillingess to try to predict the future based on this understanding of the past. *Moreproperly, the Russian people did. quote:* rrtt11: On a side note, I have no clue how christians can be liberals as their policies seem to be so anti-christian Putting faith in a government of either party, and acknowleding their authority (to imprison, to make war) over the authority of Christ (to liberate, to interact charitably and non-violently) is idolatrous. I have no clue how any Christian American can worship America (or wait, I guess I do, it has to do with wealth, comfort, and security, none of which, oddly, are promised as earthly benefits of following Christ).

Jhud -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 11:34:13 AM)
quote: More properly, the Russian people did. Sure, they played a part as well.

jad -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 11:34:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stratplayer quote: ORIGINAL: B_Pascal Honestly I am not in love with Bush's foreign policy it consists of forcing an American style of government on nations that have never in their history pursued that type of government. Iraq doesn't want to be a Democracy, the majority of Iraq (shiite muslims) want an islamic theocracy, they are in power and are already suppressing the tsuni minority. In effect, we are probably setting up an even worse enemy that Saddam was, and not only that, but we are training them too, not too bright IMO. As far as domestic policy, the usual "money fixes everything" tactics are being applied. Having a problem? Throw money at it, that seems to be the standard these days. I agree with you 100%. I have always had the feeling that he wanted to create a democracy in the Middle-East that we could ultimately control, but the people in those countries aren't going for that. From the time the war in Iraq started I just felt that we had no business going over there. First it was WMD, then it was about all the "good" we're doing in Iraq and how the world is a safer place without Sadam. Speaking of Sadam, he became old news rather quickly. And even after capturing him, our soldiers are getting killed and wounded and I have to wonder what for. I believe that these policies will feed the terrorists desire for hatred and make the world a more dangerous place BEFORE Sadam was ever captured. Granted that what he was doing to his own people was wrong, we should not have gone in there and created the mess that we did. It's not just a feeling. Seymour Hersh (who's views I am not necessarily endorsing) wrote this interesting piece on how the administration planned a CIA intervention in the Iraqi elections. When the plan met with resistance in the congress, it was withdrawn. In its place, the administration sent ex-CIA with non-congressionally approved funds to interfere with the "free and fair" election process. If you don't believe me, read the article.

jad -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 11:37:03 AM)
Whoops! Sorry, techno-illiteracy kicked in. Here's the article I mentioned in the previous post. And I would like to rephrase my last sentence (it was posted before I thought it through) as this: I'm not asking you to believe me, or Seymour Hersh for that matter, but read the article and judge for yourself. Sorry again for the double post.

jad -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 11:59:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlforjesus Disobedience to God's commandments of Governmental Biblical responsibilities-- I believe G. Bush is part of the corruption in govt and neither better or worse than Kerry or any other politiician who has been there. I agree. quote: The Bible is being deleted, and eliminated from the Constitution. The corruption in govt. is willingly disobedient to God's commandments and it is pretty obvious who they are and what they stand for speaks for that.....The corruption even has Christians divided by thinking they need to be in poliitical parties. I agree again. I assume you mean that the will of God as a basis for governance is being eliminated from visible policy. I would comment that the enshrining of the will of God in an earthly institution is bound to be corrupted. This is not to say that we shouldn't seek to follow God's will in setting up eartly institutions. But trusting them, even when they act in opposition to God is idolatry. Placing the authority or platform of a political party, even if we agree with some of their tenets, above the authority of Jesus is also, I believe, idolotrous. quote: Jesus who overcame by totally teaching, love, forgiveness, charity, generosity and all Heavenly things by following God's will presented the example and commanded we follow that example. Not only overcame, but also redeemed the world. Not only in the here-after, but also by providing a blueprint for our interactions in the physical world. Preach on girlforjesus! quote: how is it they still disobey??? The answer is greed, the love of money and power mongers(setting themselves above our Almighty God) in the upper levels, abusing authority... And we all know where they are headed. That darkness they now wander in unknowingly blinded by their own selfish desires... Oh, then that eternal deep darkness they will even be able to touch and the eternal pain and torment they will feel will be magnified unmeasurably to the pain they have inflicted on the innocent children of God and those whom they have caused to stumble because they have been taken down by the Word. Because Jesus also told us about that too. Indeed. But it is important to recognize Christ impels us to embrace them as well. No one is beyond redemption, and the torment of the oppressor--especially when the oppressed are carrying out violent acts of terror--is also great. Violence robs the weak of earthly liberty, but it also robs the violent of their freedom because they become slaves to their own fears. quote: And, if anyone is feeling a bit down because of the way our nation is headed and the corruption within there is another thread that gives a very detailed version of Hell and I will say this, no one will escape whose sins include all the above. So, hang in there Christians, who struggle daily with these burdens unmercifully poured upon God's children, Jesus our Lord and Saviour is watching and knows all those deeds and already has planned what he was going to do from the very beginning and his plan is already in action......Their fate is sealed. I disagree. I do not revel in the fate of those who have rejected Christ. I do not take joy in the prospect of their punishment. Instead, I pray that they will rejoin the flock. Instead of a fractured existence in which the oppressed and their oppressors change roles back and forth in an endless cycle of violence, I long for coming Kingdom in which Christ's love and equity will be the only governing forces. quote: We musn't lose hope just cling to our Lord Saviour, and be not deceived. And this is not, as one poster replied, a message of "sit back and do nothing." It is a message of re-examining the actions of our rulers--who we have chosen, and for whose actions we are morally responsible--in the light of Christ's teachings. As a nation, we have taken Christ's message of personal salvation as his only teachings. The majority of what he preached, however, was in regard to whom we give authority and by what rules and laws we should treat our fellow man. In this he impels us (I believe, I do not claim to know the mind of God) to hold to account those who marshall the strength of our nation for dominance and to remind them of the will of the people (which, in a 77% Christian country, should be the will of Christ).

rabstark -> RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread (7/21/2005 6:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shinerbock Bush is not reason, he is not eloquence-he is force! Like fire, he is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should he be left to irresponsible action. a twist on a quote from george...washington not bush paul TwistED maybe...

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