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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/23/2009 3:16:16 PM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
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Ok my Reformed friends. I have a question about the doctrine of election.
Who is the teaching for ? Is it a teaching that is for the unsaved ? The proud ? Those who are weak in faith ? Those who doubt if the have true faith ? I think you see where I am going.
Also can the doctrine understood or taught wrong lead the elect to pride or arragance? Or even to be complacent in there walk of faith ?
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/23/2009 4:16:51 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 1139
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FREELUTH
Ok my Reformed friends. I have a question about the doctrine of election.
Who is the teaching for ? Is it a teaching that is for the unsaved ? The proud ? Those who are weak in faith ? Those who doubt if the have true faith ? I think you see where I am going.
Also can the doctrine understood or taught wrong lead the elect to pride or arrogance? Or even to be complacent in there walk of faith ?
Who is the teaching for?
Who is World History for?
Who is English Lit for?
Who is Algebra for?
Who is the teaching of truth for?
Simple answer -- Everybody.
Can any teaching lead to arrogance? Yes.
Can the teaching of election lead to complacency? I've not met anyone yet who believes in election but is complacent.
Do see where you are going? Not really, but it seems you are coming from a tad of arrogance yourself. This is no place for debates, but for people of the reformed persuasion to chat.
Do you have legitimate questions? Please open a separate thread asking your questions.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/23/2009 4:59:50 PM
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Doveflight
Posts: 1207
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From: middle of nowhere 4 hrs from anywhere
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Doug,
You are our friendly bouncer.
Thank you for your prayers, I accept any from all.
I'm learning to like tofu. I made a great vegie hot dish that was delish and a terrific vegie lasagne last week. I also like a quick and easy tuna tofu salad for sandwiches. Lately I've been making such great food for the kids I've been eating their diet rather than the vegetarian one I'm trying to stick to. Cranberry meatloaf and spicy meatballs, homemade pizza and other yummy winter stews. The only thing I hid the tofu in for the kids was the vegie lasagne. My oldest is allergic to tofu, so I need to make double meals anyway. Any recipes would be greatly appreciated.
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/23/2009 5:13:47 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5603
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From: The higher lowcountry
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I use tofu with Pad Thai - A rice noodle dish
I love it...just slice it and fry it in the sesame oil...yummy!
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/23/2009 6:30:58 PM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
Joined: 1/31/2007
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Doug: As is usuall I did not make myself clear. I am not questioning the teaching. I 100% believe it. I do not want a debate about if it is true. I know it is and I believe it is a very humbling doctrine. I am trying to get a better understanding of it . I am sorry if my post offended any please forgive me.
Let me ask it from another angle. Is the teaching on election Law or Gospel ? That is what I am struggling with we Lutherans try to never mix the 2. So I am trying to make sure I don't mess them up.
If this is not the right place for this question tell me so and I will drop the subject.
Thanks.
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/24/2009 8:38:15 PM
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DougHorton
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From: Georgia
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FREELUTH,
Ahh... OK. I misunderstood you. I'm sorry about that.
quote:
Is the teaching on election Law or Gospel ?
I consider it Gospel. Here's my simple method of distinction:
- If we are told to DO something, it is the Law.
- If we are told GOD DID something, it is Gospel.
Of course that can be fleshed out more, and some things might debatably fall on either side of the fence. (I don't know an example, though.) But I'm sure you see the basic division.
So, as far as election goes, is it something we do, or something God did? Obviously, it is something God did on our behalf. Thus, I say it is Gospel.
Any other opinions?
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/26/2009 9:18:27 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
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From: Dothan, AL
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Just a reminder of the official description of the Theo House folder:
"Just think of this as the Theology folder coffee shop. You'll find community interaction not of a theological nature."
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/26/2009 9:44:42 AM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
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Ok, sorry I posted the question here. I just wanted to get an answer from only Reformed folks. In the other places there would be so many Anti-Calvinist, the thread would turn into a mess.
Thanks
Doug I will send you a PM with a further question I have.
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/26/2009 9:53:38 AM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Just a reminder of the official description of the Theo House folder:
"Just think of this as the Theology folder coffee shop. You'll find community interaction not of a theological nature."
OK sorry about that...
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/26/2009 10:00:58 AM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
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As a beef producing family all this talk of tofu makes my stomach turn. 
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/26/2009 11:44:48 AM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
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One more little note the free in Freeluth. does not mean free will. It means a am a member of a congregation the belongs to the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations. www.aflc.org
We are a small group of convervative Lutherans who believe that each congregation should be free to be the kind of congregation the Bible teaches us to be.
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/26/2009 12:08:27 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 1139
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From: Georgia
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Welcome to our little corner of the web!
I'm currently a member of the PCA.
I'm exploring your link and found some nice resources here:
http://www.aflc.org/AFLC_Women/Bible_study_page.htm
Got to get back to work...
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/29/2009 6:29:16 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 1988
Status: offline
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Indeed I still live!
Euty... I can't believe you have been looking for Marmite for almost 4 years... and I can't believe you even found that post again. I don't even remember writing it.
However, I'm glad you found it. Though I'm sorry you had to pay 10 bucks S/H for it. I guess that's cheaper than driving to the Northeast.
===================
Dove! Always good to see you in here!
=====================
I personally think asking questions (non combative) in this thread is fine... and I think we've done it before several times. Otherwise, isn't the title "Reformed THEOLOGY Chat thread" a little oxymoronic?
===================
Freeluth,
I affirm that the doctrine of election is Gospel.
However, it is not for the unsaved (it is Gospel, but not "Gospel invitation"). We as believers need to preach the Gospel to ourselves daily (if not more frequently). That said, there is no reason to hide it from unbelievers... just saying, there is no reason to make sure they understand it first thing.
And THAT said, I agree with John MacArthur that the doctrine of election should be taught to NEW believers at the first opportunity. Why? Because it hammers home the Grace that is the Gospel. Because it is very humbling. Because it shows you that you are freed from the law indeed.
Properly taught, that is.
Improperly taught (which, by the way, is not the doctrine of election-- you are either teaching it right, or you are not teaching it at all)... but ****ized "versions" of the doctrine indeed can lead to pride and licentiousness . Such as forgetting the part about "UNCONDITIONAL"... and forgetting the background of total depravity, and forgetting the part about perseverance of the saints, and forgetting the part about "by grace alone through faith alone, but not by faith that is alone", and forgetting the part about "soli Deo gloria"... etc etc.
================
LOL... another edit... I see that the Forums TaliBot has replaced my use of the word "*******" with ******s. I will have you know, that it is a legitimate English word found in regular (not slang) dictionaries, and it starts with a B and only sometimes is used to refer to children born out of wedlock-- which is a legitimate use of the word, by the way. However, the other legitimate use of the word, and the use I was using it in, is to refer to something (i.e., a corrupted shadow of the doctrine of election) that seems to be legitimate, but has been REMOVED from its origins so far as to have no foundation in truth whatsoever.
Can I say "hell" in a theological forum? It exists.
< Message edited by TheoJunkie -- 1/29/2009 6:48:52 PM >
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/29/2009 6:51:47 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 1988
Status: offline
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... just in case my post above is deleted because I used too many asterisks in it...
Hi all.
Election is to be taught ASAP to new believers. It is not to be hidden from unbelievers, but why confuse them with it when it may not apply to them? It is Gospel, but it is not "gospel invitation."
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/30/2009 10:35:06 AM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
Joined: 1/31/2007
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Thanks Theo. what you have posted is what I was thinking about. I love the doctrine of election. I just see it used wrong alot and wanted to see if I was thinking correct about it.
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 2/3/2009 9:42:22 PM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
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Greetings in Christ Jesus brethren !
Please remember me in your prayers-
I am under attack (again) by unbelievers at work.
Malice, slander, back-stabbers...you know the kind.
For some reason management listens to the ungodly.
I am grateful for the help-
manna
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 2/5/2009 8:58:34 AM
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DougHorton
Posts: 1139
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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Mannamuncher,
Jer 12:1
Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
I like that... "God, there's something wrong here. Let's talk about this."
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 2/6/2009 5:25:51 PM
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FREELUTH
Posts: 81
Joined: 1/31/2007
Status: offline
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Would you pray for me and my family. My 93 year old Grandma broke her arm and they found cancer. My 96 yr old Grandpa was visiting her today and fell and broke his hip. My son in College is fighting with depression. My brother is going through a divorce. I feel overwhelmed. Not sure if these are just part of living in a fallen world or if we a under attack by Satan. Thanks
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 2/6/2009 8:23:17 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 1139
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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Praying!
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 2/7/2009 10:18:20 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Mannamuncher,
Jer 12:1
Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
I like that... "God, there's something wrong here. Let's talk about this."
Thanks for prayers, smoke is clearing...
As we know, we will always have trials in this world.
The accuser of the brethren, the father of lies hates us all !!!
I pray all of our faith is increased to protect us from the fiery darts.
Thanks for prayers...please keep praying
Please remember me at services tomorrow.
God Bless,
manna
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 2/18/2009 12:46:12 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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Along with a couple of other believer employees, I just had a very unusual conversation with my boss (he's an engineer and co-owner of our company). He began the conversation by asking us questions about God's sovereignty and the elect to see how we would respond. He has been open about his faith since I first met him almost 3 years ago but we've never discussed theology to any degree.
Long story short: his Baptist church called a new pastor several months ago and he started a pastor's class in the evenings. Turns out the pastor is a Reformed Baptist and he's teaching a 1 year introduction to reformed theology. He plans to follow that with a more in-depth 3 year study.
We talked for about an hour - we seldom talk more than 2-3 minutes and that's usually business related.
I had to correct a couple of misconceptions but, otherwise, we were on the same page. He said he now believes the 5 tenets of reformed theology (TULIP) but he said he wasn't a Calvinist. Like more than a few Southern Baptists, he confused hyper-Calvinists with Calvinists. After explaining the difference, he's okay with calling himself a Calvinist.
This is a man that almost joined a Methodist church about a year ago without any idea of the doctrinal differences between them and Baptists beyond mode of baptism.
What an unusual way to start the day.
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Hi everyone, good to see some faces again.
