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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 9:25:03 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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I'll throw this out, too. If you really want to know what I know about the paranormal, I'll be happy to indulge you. Its a subject I've been interested in since I was in grade school. I've read up considerably about the subject (predominantly U.F.O's, ghosts, etc.), done some case study research, been through known haunted buildings, kept case studies I'd researched in my spare time regarding paranormal events, assisted with the construction of websites on some of the subjects, etc. I'm not extremely proud of all of this, either.
To be honest, I have formulated a number of opinions. Out of respect for many on this forum, though, I've kept them to myself. Personally, I feel it would be best if I continue to do so. But if you want....
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 9:47:12 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5278
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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Torchheart,
I whole heartily enjoy your posts. Keep on trucking brother.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 9:58:09 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 2060
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Torchheart,
I whole heartily enjoy your posts. Keep on trucking brother.
Likewise, amigo.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 10:25:08 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
I believe God creating us in his image and likeness is not referring to our physical attributes, but to our spiritual attributes. Do you have scripture to back that up? If not I suggest you drop it as anything more than your personal opinion.
quote:
No where in the bible will you find God appearing as a physical man. So Jesus was not a man?quote:
When it says God walked with Enoch, it doesn't mean he physically walked with Enoch in the form of a man. It means God's spiritual presence was physically present before Enoch. On what basis do you make this statement? Give me some good reason to not accept the basic understanding that God physically walked with Enoch, with Adam, etc. The scriptures say He "walked," that He spoke with Moses "face to face," that He would not let Elijah look on anything but His backside, etc. Sounds very body-like to me.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 11:13:49 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
Ditto. As long as we stay away from politics
Oh BELIEVE ME, we'll save the politics for Current Events (and days when I'm feeling masochistic and like I need a good verbal beat-down by numerous people). 
quote:
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject at hand, or at least an explanation of what you meant by "out of respect for many on this forum"... you can't just write something like that and then leave!
I think my thoughts can best be summed up with this: There is no way we can have all the answers to the question about ghosts, their existance, and what they are. Even with the use of the Bible, which I will agree is the source of God's truth, we are left with things that just don't fit. For every account of ghosts that features only one or two witnesses that we have to take at their word, there are others that involve multiple witnesses over extended periods of time. You also have the odd instances where not everyone in a group is witness to the event, because some see it and some don't. Some people are more prone to these "occurances" than others.
If ghosts are truly just deceptions from Satan, why are some helpful or completely benign in nature? Why are some manifestations widespread, but others only keying in on certain people or types of people, seemingly? If they're from God, why are some seemingly destructive? If they're from neither, but some natural phenomenon, what are they? What about poltergeists? E.V.P.? Heat Sensory Imagry? photographic evidence, Etc.
None of us truly knows what life after death involves, exactly. We know where we're supposed to go, but not much beyond that. Hence, my belief is that this is something that needs more research (both from a spiritual and physical aspect) for us to be able to truly understand it. And unfortunately, for every bit of decent research that goes on about this subject, there is an onslaught of crackpot research as well. I'm not a believer, but I'm definitely not a disbeliever in these kinds of experiences. In a nutshell (though maybe rambling a bit), and trying not to be offensive (because some of the things I've researched I DO feel are from the enemy), that's where I stand on this subject.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 2:04:11 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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For the record, Gen. 3:1 does not state that Satan possessed a snake.
For the record, Genesis does not state that the angel guarding the entrance to the garden was there to snatch souls.
My biggest question in any of what I have read in this thread is how can you (generic, not personal, please no one take offense) tell someone that what they have experienced is not true simply because you (generic) have not had the pleasure of same? Again, the Bible is replete with interaction between the physical and spiritual world. The mistake being made here, is the assumption that interaction must be physical on both sides. Please remember that we also have spirits.......and souls....
quote:
The better question is why do you presuppose that pure spirits have the ability to physically interact with matter?
God is Spirit. He created matter. Where do you get the idea that no interaction is possible? God would come down in the evening to interact with Adam and Eve. Can you physically contain your spirit other than in your body? What happens to your body when you die....your spirit lives on...but it is now in your body. We are not only physical beings.
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If I told you that I saw Jesus hiring a hooker and going to a seedy motel, would you believe me?
The above is something I would never even try to address. Ever. 
quote:
You need to be translating your experiences through the Word, not translating the Word through your experiences. When that experience contradicts the Bible, you need to reject that experience, not try to retranslate the Bible.
Hmmm....good idea, but first let us not read into the text what we think or think we understand.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 2:24:54 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
In the Bible, demons aren't shown being able to effect the physical realm except through possession. The slight exception to this can be found in the case of Satan and Job. However, notice that Satan himself never physically harmed Job or his family. Satan was allowed to command nature, but he never physically touched Job.
Job 2:4-7....."Skin for skin!" Satan replied. A man will give all he has for his own life. But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.
The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of this feet to the top of his head."
If there is one exception, how many exceptions are needed before the words "no exceptions" no longer apply? But then, I do not hold to the no exception rule, as I do not see that to be the case. Satan most definately physically harmed Job as can be seen from the above text. It was his life that God disallowed him power over. The quality of that life was brought from one of exceptional wealth and status to one of forlorn misery and loss. And, Job was a godly man....so much so, in fact, that God Himself told Satan that upon the earth there was none other like him.(v. 8 of chapt1)
For some reason, some Christians think that Satan has no right to them because they are Christians. The Bible does not teach that...in fact, it teaches the opposite. Our battle is not even against flesh and blood, but against spirit beings. Interaction, whether understood by all on this thread or not, it most certainly is.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 2/6/2009 2:57:25 PM >
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 4:51:28 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 739
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho (relocated from California 6 yrs ago)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
I believe God creating us in his image and likeness is not referring to our physical attributes, but to our spiritual attributes.
Do you have scripture to back that up? If not I suggest you drop it as anything more than your personal opinion.
Where did I imply it was anything more than my personal opinion? I said, "I believe." There are scriptures that reinforce my beliefs such as:
"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
(Jn 4:24)
If God was actually human in form how could he possibly be omnipresent? How could be one with the Holy Spirit and the Son?
“But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!
(1 Ki 8:27)
If God's form was human, why would King David say the highest heavens cannot contain God, much less a man-made temple?
quote:
quote:
No where in the bible will you find God appearing as a physical man.
So Jesus was not a man?
I am sorry, I did not make myself clear. I was referring only to God, excluding Jesus the Son. From the verses below we can conclude no one but Jesus has truly seen God. Also how can man or Jesus be in God's physical image if God is invisible?
"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known." (Jn 1:18)
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." (Col 1:15)
quote:
quote:
When it says God walked with Enoch, it doesn't mean he physically walked with Enoch in the form of a man. It means God's spiritual presence was physically present before Enoch.
On what basis do you make this statement? Give me some good reason to not accept the basic understanding that God physically walked with Enoch, with Adam, etc. The scriptures say He "walked," that He spoke with Moses "face to face," that He would not let Elijah look on anything but His backside, etc. Sounds very body-like to me.
In light of Jesus being the only one to see God and that the heavens can't even contain God, I seriously doubt he walked among Adam, Enoch etc. in a human form. Unless, you can show me somewhere in scripture he actually did, of course.
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 4:53:25 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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I'll throw this out:
How do you explain Electronic Voice Phenomenon?
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 7:57:10 PM
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softrain
Posts: 73
Joined: 8/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
I'll throw this out, too. If you really want to know what I know about the paranormal, I'll be happy to indulge you. Its a subject I've been interested in since I was in grade school. I've read up considerably about the subject (predominantly U.F.O's, ghosts, etc.), done some case study research, been through known haunted buildings, kept case studies I'd researched in my spare time regarding paranormal events, assisted with the construction of websites on some of the subjects, etc. I'm not extremely proud of all of this, either.
To be honest, I have formulated a number of opinions. Out of respect for many on this forum, though, I've kept them to myself. Personally, I feel it would be best if I continue to do so. But if you want....
It's not that hard to conjure up strange phenomenon and paranormal, poltergeist activity. Frankly, Satan is just itching for opportunities like that. Am i getting close?
_____________________________
Psalm 18:28 For you will light my lamp, Yahweh. My God will light up my darkness.
world english bible
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 8:32:05 PM
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softrain
Posts: 73
Joined: 8/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
I think my thoughts can best be summed up with this: There is no way we can have all the answers to the question about ghosts, their existance, and what they are. Even with the use of the Bible, which I will agree is the source of God's truth, we are left with things that just don't fit. For every account of ghosts that features only one or two witnesses that we have to take at their word, there are others that involve multiple witnesses over extended periods of time. You also have the odd instances where not everyone in a group is witness to the event, because some see it and some don't. Some people are more prone to these "occurances" than others.
If ghosts are truly just deceptions from Satan, why are some helpful or completely benign in nature? Why are some manifestations widespread, but others only keying in on certain people or types of people, seemingly? If they're from God, why are some seemingly destructive? If they're from neither, but some natural phenomenon, what are they? What about poltergeists? E.V.P.? Heat Sensory Imagry? photographic evidence, Etc.
None of us truly knows what life after death involves, exactly. We know where we're supposed to go, but not much beyond that. Hence, my belief is that this is something that needs more research (both from a spiritual and physical aspect) for us to be able to truly understand it. And unfortunately, for every bit of decent research that goes on about this subject, there is an onslaught of crackpot research as well. I'm not a believer, but I'm definitely not a disbeliever in these kinds of experiences. In a nutshell (though maybe rambling a bit), and trying not to be offensive (because some of the things I've researched I DO feel are from the enemy), that's where I stand on this subject.
Ever heard of a computer? Satan's got possession of the controls (on earth), but did you know that removing a tiny, cheap $5 fan inside a computer will cause a complete meltdown? Whaaa hhaaaa haaaaa. There's ways of getting around his ploys, but it involves FAITH (aka moves mountains out of the way).
_____________________________
Psalm 18:28 For you will light my lamp, Yahweh. My God will light up my darkness.
world english bible
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/6/2009 9:25:35 PM
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softrain
Posts: 73
Joined: 8/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
Furthermore, for true Christians, demons cannot read our thoughts nor can they get into our dreams. They can oppress us as they observe our weakeness and present traps for us to fall.
You are wrong. Satanic people are extremely devious....and i emphasize the extreme. I have firsthand experience of them knowing what i was thinking....and verbally voicing it as if to taunt me. Satan is in the unseen world....hence Jesus said to worship God with all our heart, MIND, soul and spirit (these are unseen as well).
_____________________________
Psalm 18:28 For you will light my lamp, Yahweh. My God will light up my darkness.
world english bible
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/9/2009 7:03:45 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Everquote:
quote:
No where in the bible will you find God appearing as a physical man. So Jesus was not a man?
I am sorry, I did not make myself clear. I was referring only to God, excluding Jesus the Son. From the verses below we can conclude no one but Jesus has truly seen God. Also how can man or Jesus be in God's physical image if God is invisible?
"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known." (Jn 1:18)
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." (Col 1:15) I hope the bolded phrase does not mean what I think it could mean.
Christianity is a monotheistic faith community - ONE GOD. (Deut 6) We belive in one God in 3 persons. You cannot refer to "...only God excluding Jesus..." as it says that Jesus is not fully God. Is that really what you are saying? I think not.
Please be careful in how you state your views.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/9/2009 1:30:15 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 739
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho (relocated from California 6 yrs ago)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Everquote:
quote:
No where in the bible will you find God appearing as a physical man. So Jesus was not a man?
I am sorry, I did not make myself clear. I was referring only to God, excluding Jesus the Son. From the verses below we can conclude no one but Jesus has truly seen God. Also how can man or Jesus be in God's physical image if God is invisible?
"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known." (Jn 1:18)
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." (Col 1:15) I hope the bolded phrase does not mean what I think it could mean.
Christianity is a monotheistic faith community - ONE GOD. (Deut 6) We belive in one God in 3 persons. You cannot refer to "...only God excluding Jesus..." as it says that Jesus is not fully God. Is that really what you are saying? I think not.
Please be careful in how you state your views.
Well, you obviously you understood what I meant. I think anyone who reads my post in context with the question I was responding too will understand my meaning. I guess I could've said "apart" from Jesus the Son. I am curious why you didn't respond to my post as a whole though.
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/9/2009 2:56:33 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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In Gen 18 three men show up at Abraham's tent. 2 of them turn out to be angels that call down destruction on Sodom and Gommorah. The 3rd one stays behind and Abraham negotiates with him over Lot's fate. It is clear in verse 1 that it is the LORD.
So Was that God (the father) or not?
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/9/2009 3:34:08 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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quote:
In Gen 18 three men show up at Abraham's tent. 2 of them turn out to be angels that call down destruction on Sodom and Gommorah. The 3rd one stays behind and Abraham negotiates with him over Lot's fate. It is clear in verse 1 that it is the LORD.
So Was that God (the father) or not?
Actually, it kind of sounds like the adjustors my insurance company sent over to handle my car accident, last October. But that's neither here nor there.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 2/9/2009 8:56:13 PM
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19ramman85
Posts: 360
Joined: 4/10/2008
From: Sandusky, MI
Status: offline
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THe only thing that stops me from believeing completely in ghosts/paranormal (EVP's, etc) - is just that little one liner - "To be absent from the body, is to be present w/ the Lord".
Other than that - yeah, there really is way too much out there that God really doesn't give us to go on.
-charles
_____________________________
[IMG]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e152/mirangermanll/usisfl.jpg[/IMG]
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 10/22/2009 8:42:17 AM
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Gazingstock
Posts: 88
Joined: 5/30/2007
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quote:
Genesis 1 makes it clear that all of God's living creations are designed to reproduce "according to their own kinds."
Jude 1:6 makes it apparent that "the sons of God" which again, only ever refers to angels in the old testament, violated the laws of God in regards to "breeding after their own kind."
We are not taught how to categorize it, simply to believe:
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. -Gen 6:4
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. -Job 1:6
He answered and said, "Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." -Dan 3:25
No, there are too many details to the subject throughout the Bible (and outside the Bible) to dismiss the entire doctrine as a sort of typo for "the sons of Seth." -If anyone would like to discuss this further, lets move to a doctrinal thread, or, feel free to PM me.
_____________________________
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual [ones]. -1Cr 2:13
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 10/24/2009 7:38:56 AM
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singpeace
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
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Humbleinspirit,
13 years ago, I had one; just one, experience with something demonic/supernatural.
I was asleep beside my husband, when my eyes just popped open, and I was fully awake. I was lying on my back. I turned my head to the left, and there, standing by my husband's side of the bed, was a man. He was looking right at me. I was so scared that I could not move. I've never ever been that afraid in my life... but I was frozen in fear. I saw his expression, and he was afraid also. That look of fear on his face is what convinced me that we were about to die. I wanted to say the name of Jesus, but couldn't speak. So I closed my eyes and thought these words, "In the name of Jesus." that's all I could think of . I opened my eyes and he was gone. I was astonished and confused and still scared. But I thought of my kids, and that got me up.
Nothing in the house was disturbed. The windows and doors were still locked. No one had gotten into my house and back out. It was a mystery.
I will never forget it. That was a man, plain as anything. He was solid, had on a baseball cap and sweatshirt... and looked scared! It still gives me a shiver when I think of that night. I wonder what that was. Anyone have a suggestion?
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 10/24/2009 7:41:23 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 879
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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If I remember correctly, there is at least one attempt to contact the dead in the Bible... maybe that's where the whole fascination originated.
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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