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UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/22/2007 6:22:18 PM
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Timcp
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The amount of Christian fighters is alarming.
Solomon was gifted from God with the most wisdom of any man.
In Proverbs 3:30 he wrote: Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/22/2007 9:30:34 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Timcp
The amount of Christian fighters is alarming.
Solomon was gifted from God with the most wisdom of any man.
In Proverbs 3:30 he wrote: Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm.
It seems the UFC folks have a cause, to make money, to win the contest; sorta like Paul writes about winning a race.
Thanks
RC
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/22/2007 10:05:23 PM
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nicole6598
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what is UFC?
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/22/2007 10:51:12 PM
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clag4christ
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UFC = Ultimate Fighting Champions
Though I'm not into fighting personally I see nothing evil about those people doing so for a living.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/22/2007 11:37:25 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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I see nothing wrong with it either. It is just entertainment. Boxing has been around for what...centuries..? This is just a cooler version, that and the IFC, and so on...
matthew
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 12:48:33 AM
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nicole6598
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Thanks kim
Yeah I see nothing evil about it either, and I do know that their testimony's like any of ours can bring people to Christ.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 6:54:29 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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IFL, UFC, USKA, USBA... it all falls under the same umbrella. Namely, the umbrella of two guys beating the snot out of each other and getting paid to do it. Do I think there is something evil about it? Nope. Do these guys who fight have a reason to fight? You betcha. A lot of them have kids, wives (not necessarily in that order or combination), property, all that jazz. These guys fight so they can afford to live. If you want to talk about how they spend that money, that is different. Can a person be a Christian and be a professional wrestler? Yes. Can a guy be a Christian and be in the government? Yes. Can a guy be a Christian, while keeping in tremendous shape and making a lot of money to win fights? Yes. As long as the Bible doesn't say don't, you should be clear. Boxing isn't outlawed in the Bible, neither is Mixed Martial Arts or professional wrestling. The point is that the actual action of being involved in these activities doesn't affect your spirit in the same way that, say, being a prostitute would. That is why one is prohibited, and the other is left alone.
Adam
(Author's note: IFL= Independent Fight League, UFC=Ultimate Fighting Championship, USKA= United States Kickboxing Association, USBA= US Boxing Association)
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 10:43:03 PM
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Timcp
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While it is good to have an opinion.
It is interesting that no one can provide a verse to back up their position. No where is fighting condoned for the fun of it. Or for a living.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
As long as the Bible doesn't say don't, you should be clear. Boxing isn't outlawed in the Bible, neither is Mixed Martial Arts or professional wrestling.
Proverbs 3:30 speaks right to the brawler. It is as plain as day. Don't fight without a cause if the person does you no harm.
The Bible says men will beat their weapons into plow sheers, they will learn war no more. It doesn't say they will only strive for entertainment.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Do these guys who fight have a reason to fight? You betcha. A lot of them have kids, wives (not necessarily in that order or combination), property, all that jazz. These guys fight so they can afford to live.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
It seems the UFC folks have a cause, to make money, to win the contest; sorta like Paul writes about winning a race.
Thanks
RC
Proverbs 3:30 speaks against this too. It lists a cause right in the verse. If he does thee no "harm".
You are to fight only for self defense, not to make money.
< Message edited by Timcp -- 8/23/2007 11:34:12 PM >
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 10:56:34 PM
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Reasoning
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It's sport, plain and simple. They are trained professionals that entertain people.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:04:34 PM
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Timcp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reasoning
It's sport, plain and simple. They are trained professionals that entertain people.
There aren't fights in the Bible that are condoned for the fun, or because it is a sport.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:10:39 PM
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Reasoning
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Uh, there is a lot of stuff that isn't condoned in the Bible. Does that make reading my books, using the internet or washing my dishes in a dish washer wrong?
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:16:22 PM
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Timcp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reasoning
Uh, there is a lot of stuff that isn't condoned in the Bible. Does that make reading my books, using the internet or washing my dishes in a dish washer wrong?
No.
But Solomon spoke out against fighting. He says to fight only if someone means to do you harm.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:23:33 PM
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Reasoning
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There is a difference between fighting for sport and fighting to harm someone out of anger or self defense.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:31:51 PM
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Timcp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reasoning
There is a difference between fighting for sport and fighting to harm someone out of anger or self defense.
The verse provides a condition in which you should fight. If he does you no harm, don't fight with any man.
Fighters say all the time, I don't mean to hurt him, it is out of honor, it is for respect. That statement isn't Biblical. Because if you don't mean to hurt someone, than according to Proverbs 3:30, you shouldn't fight with him.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:43:07 PM
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Reasoning
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Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah, yes you are right, UFC is evil and will lead to your eventual fall from grace and straight into the sulfur pits of hell.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/23/2007 11:47:35 PM
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Timcp
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I'm not saying you'll go to hell.
But according to Proverbs 3:30, fighting certainly isn't Biblical, and if Solomon wouldn't do it. Christians shouldn't either.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 12:02:45 AM
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ironsharpensiron
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Say...didn't the Isrealites fight and destroy the inhabitants of Canaan..? They struck first right..? Hmmm...I just don't know... 
matthew
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 12:11:33 AM
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Timcp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
Say...didn't the Isrealites fight and destroy the inhabitants of Canaan..? They struck first right..? Hmmm...I just don't know...
matthew
Wars of the Bible show that you can't fight against God and win.
Canaan was judged by God, because they served other Gods.
Joshua Chapter 24
2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
3 And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 8:09:56 AM
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Reasoning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Timcp
I'm not saying you'll go to hell.
But according to Proverbs 3:30, fighting certainly isn't Biblical, and if Solomon wouldn't do it. Christians shouldn't either.
Once again there is a difference between fighting and sport.
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"...Nietzsche's lesson: we can choose not to choose." - Michel Onfray In Defense Of Atheism
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 9:49:34 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reasoning
quote:
ORIGINAL: Timcp
I'm not saying you'll go to hell.
But according to Proverbs 3:30, fighting certainly isn't Biblical, and if Solomon wouldn't do it. Christians shouldn't either.
Once again there is a difference between fighting and sport.
Last I checked, the "F" in UFC stood for "FIGHTING", not "Fun"
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 1:30:51 PM
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ManimalX
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Your application of Scripture is incorrect.
Remember, God is concerned about the heart and motivation. MMA (mixed martial arts) competitions are all about two well-trained athletes testing their skills against each other. MMA fights are almost like chess matches with move-counter-move. They are not competing out of hatred, and a lot of MMA fighters are good friends outside of the ring.
The verse you quote is speaking about people who fight out of anger or hatred. People who lose their temper and get into a parking lot brawl.
The word translated "strive" is the Hebrew word riyb, which can have the meaning of, "to quarrel" or "to complain". It can also have the meaning of a regular debate. As a matter of fact, in Proverbs 25:9, we are encouraged to riyb: "Debate your case with your neighbor, and do not disclose the secret to another".
As you can see, this has nothing to do with physical competitions. I would ask you to consider the fact that more people are seriously injured in pro football than MMA competitions. The heart of the sport is not to harm your opponent out of anger and hate, but to test your skill against a like-minded opponent.
If in your conscience you feel that physical contests are sinful, then don't watch them and I won't watch them or talk about them when you are around, thus causing you to stumble. However, don't use the Bible as your basis for this, because it just doesn't teach such a thing.
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"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 3:24:55 PM
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Hiker02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Your application of Scripture is incorrect.
Remember, God is concerned about the heart and motivation. MMA (mixed martial arts) competitions are all about two well-trained athletes testing their skills against each other. MMA fights are almost like chess matches with move-counter-move. They are not competing out of hatred, and a lot of MMA fighters are good friends outside of the ring.
The verse you quote is speaking about people who fight out of anger or hatred. People who lose their temper and get into a parking lot brawl.
The word translated "strive" is the Hebrew word riyb, which can have the meaning of, "to quarrel" or "to complain". It can also have the meaning of a regular debate. As a matter of fact, in Proverbs 25:9, we are encouraged to riyb: "Debate your case with your neighbor, and do not disclose the secret to another".
As you can see, this has nothing to do with physical competitions. I would ask you to consider the fact that more people are seriously injured in pro football than MMA competitions. The heart of the sport is not to harm your opponent out of anger and hate, but to test your skill against a like-minded opponent.
If in your conscience you feel that physical contests are sinful, then don't watch them and I won't watch them or talk about them when you are around, thus causing you to stumble. However, don't use the Bible as your basis for this, because it just doesn't teach such a thing.
Excellent post! I completely agree. 
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 4:34:53 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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Very nice, ManimalX!!
By the way, isn't this Friday..? Smackdown is on tonight!! 
matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 5:03:52 PM
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Timcp
Posts: 103
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Because this word is used in various ways. To assume it means about anger or hatred is an assumption.
Proverbs 3:30 mentions nothing about anger or hatred.
It only mentions harm. It gives a condition to strive with someone, if they mean to do you harm. If they don't mean to do you harm, then you have no cause to strive.
If a fighter doesn't mean to harm his opponent, then he has no cause to strive in the first place.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Your application of Scripture is incorrect.
Remember, God is concerned about the heart and motivation. MMA (mixed martial arts) competitions are all about two well-trained athletes testing their skills against each other. MMA fights are almost like chess matches with move-counter-move. They are not competing out of hatred, and a lot of MMA fighters are good friends outside of the ring.
The verse you quote is speaking about people who fight out of anger or hatred. People who lose their temper and get into a parking lot brawl.
The word translated "strive" is the Hebrew word riyb, which can have the meaning of, "to quarrel" or "to complain". It can also have the meaning of a regular debate. As a matter of fact, in Proverbs 25:9, we are encouraged to riyb: "Debate your case with your neighbor, and do not disclose the secret to another".
As you can see, this has nothing to do with physical competitions. I would ask you to consider the fact that more people are seriously injured in pro football than MMA competitions. The heart of the sport is not to harm your opponent out of anger and hate, but to test your skill against a like-minded opponent.
If in your conscience you feel that physical contests are sinful, then don't watch them and I won't watch them or talk about them when you are around, thus causing you to stumble. However, don't use the Bible as your basis for this, because it just doesn't teach such a thing.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 8/24/2007 5:12:09 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 356
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:
If in your conscience you feel that physical contests are sinful, then don't watch them and I won't watch them or talk about them when you are around, thus causing you to stumble. However, don't use the Bible as your basis for this, because it just doesn't teach such a thing.
This pretty much sums it all up.
matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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