|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2008 1:24:32 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 1529
Status: offline
|
Manna-
You understand this theology is "I think, therefore I believe"?
All Scripture is read through this presupposition, so sanctification,
fruit, and perseverance are under man's control and are not
givens for the "believer".
It explains why Free interprets the sower parable the way he does.
I think in the end its humanistic and man-centered intellectual Christianity.
Without the work of God to confirm my believing was effectual, the sad truth is:
"I think I believe"
I can be assured of nothing....I can stand on the promises of the Bible....
I can know alot of things about Jesus.....and not know Him. Its just a bunch
chit-chat unless I my regeneration results in a new life.
Heb 11:1 tells us faith is not "fleshly thinking".
I'll be glad to tell you about my new life. What I think I believe is irrelevant.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2008 3:28:40 PM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
Manna-
You understand this theology is "I think, therefore I believe"?
All Scripture is read through this presupposition, so sanctification,
fruit, and perseverance are under man's control and are not
givens for the "believer".
It explains why Free interprets the sower parable the way he does.
I think in the end its humanistic and man-centered intellectual Christianity.
Without the work of God to confirm my believing was effectual, the sad truth is:
"I think I believe"
I can be assured of nothing....I can stand on the promises of the Bible....
I can know alot of things about Jesus.....and not know Him. Its just a bunch
chit-chat unless I my regeneration results in a new life.
Heb 11:1 tells us faith is not "fleshly thinking".
I'll be glad to tell you about my new life. What I think I believe is irrelevant.
Saw it a while back...
Hard to NOT notice ! 
Yeah, the "thinking = believing" is wacky !!!
What was the other ?
Repentance = ________
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2008 4:22:07 PM
|
|
|
SureHope
Posts: 1410
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
If you think that that Cornelius has proved me wrong you don't understand what I am saying.
Apparently so. Your claim that man chooses not to honor God is disproven by Cornelius. As an unbeliever, He honored and worshiped God.
My point has been that man does not honor God by loving Him with all his being. Because this is so, we can both agree that Cornelius did not honor God in this way.
How do you figure that Cornelius "did not honor God"? God answered his prayers. My point is that God responds to man's recognition of Him and honoring Him as God.
Like I stated, Cornelius did not honor God by loving him with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
quote:
quote:
quote:
No, you have misunderstood. To what did I say man is unable to do? It was be sinless, not unable to honor or recognize God. So, I do not agree with your position.
No, I have not misunderstood you. My position is and has always been the same - that man is unable to be sinless and he is unwilling to be sinless.
How can you speak for anyone else? How do you know who else is "unwilling to be sinless"? I"m looking forward to that day myself. To say that I am unwilling to be sinless is ridiculous. If you are unwilling to be sinless, that is a problem you must face.
We have not been talking about our looking forward to the day when we will no longer have to deal with sin. What we have been talking about is man’s unwillingness to obey God’s command to love Him with all of his being.
I am sure you do not obey all the time. And you have said concerning those who do not obey,
"The reason man doesn't obey is because he doesn't want to." (quoted from Post #29004)
I assume you put yourself in the same category of your use of the term “man” above.
All of us sin, and the reason we sin is because we wanted to sin – no one else to blame. In other words, the fact that you sin shows that you are unwilling at times to obey God by loving Him with all of your being. You sin because you are unwilling not to.
quote:
quote:
All of us have not honored God by loving Him with all of our being. We have been unable to do so and are unwilling to do so.
You are half right. We are unable to, but you are wrong to assume that, other than yourself, all are unwilling to.
You have already admitted that you are unwilling. If you are going back on your word then you have to deal with the question, if you are so unwilling not to sin, why do you continue to do so? If your answer is that you are unable, than you take no responsibility for your sins and therefore have no need to confess them to God.
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 7:51:38 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Is that God's plan ? Watching and waiting on man to act or do something ?
Man must respond to the draw of God.
Is he a Stepford husband? Or.....
rw, you are actually quite close. To the reformists, they seem quite comfortable with the idea of being puppets in which God pulls the strings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 7:57:23 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Man (in what condition) is able (by what power) to believe (precisely what). Let's stick to believing.
Man is able to believe the gospel because God created man to be able to do so. It's part of man's intellect.
Sounds like you are saying the Good News is potentially good.
No, I say that the gospel IS good news, even though many reject that goodness.
So, the Good News is limited in scope ?
Gee, MM, are you really paying attention? Since I have successfully defended the fact that Christ died for everyone, how in the world could you even suggest that the gospel is limited in scope? It is your theology that limits the scope of the gospel to a limited few; you know, the frozen chosen, the select elect. But, to clarify so you can keep up, the good news is unlimited in scope.
btw, I suggest you check out post #25708, in which I provide an example of how unlimited atonement works.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 8:04:45 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Something could or might happen, but we have to wait for man to act. Is that God's plan ?
What you misunderstand is that for anyone (whosoever) who believes is absolutely saved. The potential is for everyone. The salvation is for all who believe. I find it amusing that you continue to think only of "might happen".
It's in no way funny, rather quite tragic.
Actually, on second thought, you are quite right. It isn't amusing at all, but rather quite tragic.
quote:
Let's consider the promise made to Abraham. Was God's promise to Abraham that ALL men would be saved ?
Since universalism is false, why do you even ask if God's promise was that all men would be saved?
quote:
Is there a Covenant with ALL men ? What is the full number of the Gentiles ? It's about God's oath, not man's choosing. What is amusing, is that anyone could contrive that God idly observes without intervention, hoping man makes the right move.
Well, whether amusing or tragic, your continued insistence that "God idly observes without intervention" is so far in left field that I'm not sure whether further discussion with you would be profitable. Since we clearly know that one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, you would have to be ignorant of that fact to keep claiming such nonsense that God "sits idly by" waiting for man to respond. Nothing could be further from the truth.
What is also tragic is the reformed view that man is merely a puppet, upon whose strings God pulls. God created mankind with a will, and man chooses to be willing or unwilling with that will. That is what you miss.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 8:10:15 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
This also forces the conclusion that man is able, but is not competent enough to utilize his faculties.
Ridiculous statement. Since many have believed in Christ, your mischaracterization of man being not competent enough is dismissed.
You inadvertently proved my point !!!.......What about those who have not utilized their believing equipment correctly ? Did some receive an operator's manual ? Why did they perform the task, when other's failed ?
I don't see how I proved your point. Whether a person believes the gospel or rejects the gospel, they ARE using their "believing equipment" correctly. Seems to me that you just misunderstand that equipment. The "equipment" that you speak of goes either way, but apparently you are unaware of that.
quote:
Perhaps they lacked the skill, ability, and desire;
Of course not, since God gave this "equipment" to everyone. Neither skill, ability or desire is an issue. All can believe, and all can reject. But your theology "rejects" that.
quote:
and were unable and unwilling to foster, cultivate, or manufacture these traits ?
The only key here is "unwilling". No one "manufactures" any traits, as you should know.
quote:
Just a crazy thought...
I have to agree with your here! 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 8:12:47 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Maybe believing something isn't thinking to you. But it is to most of humanity.
Sounds rather WOF-ish to me !!! Thinking stuff into existence by faith ?
I really don't follow you here. What do you mean by "stuff into existence"? Are you suggesting that I think that my salvation was "thought into existence" by my faith? If you do, you only prove that you have no clue as to what anyone who believes in free will says.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 8:15:52 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
Manna-
You understand this theology is "I think, therefore I believe"?
All Scripture is read through this presupposition, so sanctification,
fruit, and perseverance are under man's control and are not
givens for the "believer".
It explains why Free interprets the sower parable the way he does.
No, rw, there is no "interpretation". Jesus plainly told us the second soil believed after He equated believing with being saved. Rather than being "interpretive", it's more like math; you know, one plus one equals two.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 8:22:28 AM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
How do you figure that Cornelius "did not honor God"? God answered his prayers. My point is that God responds to man's recognition of Him and honoring Him as God.
Like I stated, Cornelius did not honor God by loving him with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
I think your argument about this command is irrelevant. No one is saved by obvserving that command, and no one can fulfill it perfectly, so what is your point?
quote:
I am sure you do not obey all the time. And you have said concerning those who do not obey,
"The reason man doesn't obey is because he doesn't want to." (quoted from Post #29004)
I assume you put yourself in the same category of your use of the term “man” above.
And why not? Of course no one can obey perfectly, nor consistently all the time. Again, what is your point?
quote:
All of us sin, and the reason we sin is because we wanted to sin – no one else to blame. In other words, the fact that you sin shows that you are unwilling at times to obey God by loving Him with all of your being. You sin because you are unwilling not to.
Everyone sins because they choose to sin. What we choose is individual but we nonetheless choose our sins. But, what is your point?
quote:
quote:
quote:
All of us have not honored God by loving Him with all of our being. We have been unable to do so and are unwilling to do so.
You are half right. We are unable to, but you are wrong to assume that, other than yourself, all are unwilling to.
You have already admitted that you are unwilling. If you are going back on your word then you have to deal with the question, if you are so unwilling not to sin, why do you continue to do so? If your answer is that you are unable, than you take no responsibility for your sins and therefore have no need to confess them to God.
This discussion is going nowhere. I fail to see you point. I am willing to be sinless, but unable to be sinless. How about you?
When I sin, it is because I have chosen to sin. Sometimes it is a conscious decision, sometimes more "reflex" than a conscious decision. How about you?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 9:28:55 AM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
K-man,
I listened to 2 part Stanley’s sermon while running Sat. morning.Not to reap words out of context, but briefly: while answering q-n Why don’t we get answer to our prayer sometimes? among reasons, he states: we might be mistaken about our position of being sons of God; maybe there is a sin in our life we haven’t turned away from; maybe it’s a way God uses to make us read the Bible more. Like parents teach children by making them obey by using some punishments, God will punish those who obey. Also he mentioned his gradfather teaching that "its vital to be obedient children to get help from the Father (God)"
(from TH- Friday, av.on his site for download)
I regularly listen to him and haven’t caught him teaching that works are optional, not needed, you can be in sin and assured of being saved,etc. I have not seen that.
quote:
Adherents of FGM i.e., Swindoll and Stanley teach lifestyle is no indicator of salvation. In essence, such teaching gives the individual a feeling of "peace and safety" if he remains in his sin - when it should not.
No, they don’t teach peace and safety if one remains in sin.Most of their teaching is about dangers of sin, and help in spiritual growth. But yes, they do teach that salvation is by faith alone.
quote:
O: telling a kid you will love him no matter what is not encouraging the child to mistreat his parents.
K But telling a person they are a child of God when, in fact, every indication is to the contrary - is spiritually deadly - to that "kid".
Unlike in case of parenthood we don’t know who is or who isn’t a child of God. FG doesn’t teach that anyone is a child of God for nobody there claims that we can see salvation status of another.
Salvation and chastisement I addressed already in the first part of this post: If we fail to understand each other regarding the difference between these two things we are totally wasting time with each other debating this, despite all my love for you, brother.
quote:
Since we see no biblical support for saved individuals living in gross sin, let alone dying in gross sin, yes, I'd have to say had Solomon died before he repented he would have been lost. The fact we are told he did repent should be evidence enough.
But you see, according to this your theology only allows you to claim that Solomon got saved after his repentance sometime before death,and he lived unsaved all his life.
There is no Scriptural support for that. Scripture clearly saying he was child of God way before he started worshipping other gods.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 9:42:04 AM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
BTW, you might have forgotten I asked what your understanding of "repentance" is. FGM teaches it is simply a turning to God which does not include a turning from sin. Is that your understanding also?
but I will elaborate.... even answered it to you already,
Repentance is changing attitude towards sin, and turning from it is a proof that we repented.
The issue here, again, is not to do the sin inspection - we can't say that we turned away from all sins we repented from. Therefore repentance sometimes doesn’t mean stopping a sin.(:D what i am still doing in the RC threads you think? :) how many times i repented? What devil keeps draggin me there i woould like to know? and there is "jewmanji",too... manna knows)
Ah, repentance. Shmepentance.
As we say in israel " only the grave will cure a hunchback" or as you in States say in such cases : " only death is a perpetual cure for an idiot"
IF someone claims that Christian repentance from certain sin always mean quitting that sin - Mirror is very helpful in such cases....
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 10:45:28 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Why do you say by a "mystical process"? Did you note what I said? I said God hard wired man to be able to think. Man is therefore able to understand the good news and believe it. There is nothing mysical about it.
But, come to think of it, one who holds to a theology that accepts the idea of puppetry, thinking and acting on one's own might seem a bit "mystical".
As opposed to the self-quickening puppet... 
Since everyone on this thread agrees that God is the only One who quickens, your comment only demonstrates your failure to grasp the issues being discussed.
Hardly...self-induced belief = self -quickening. You might say God regenerates or even makes us willing, but implicit, nay, mandatory to your system is that man is able to realize belief on his own. Everyone was not given the identical spiritual equipment. Otherwise everyone would have reached the same conclusion. Or, as you subscribe, we all have the same equipment, but some are fumbling for the "ON" switch.
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 10:50:46 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Is that God's plan ? Watching and waiting on man to act or do something ?
Man must respond to the draw of God.
Is he a Stepford husband? Or.....
rw, you are actually quite close. To the reformists, they seem quite comfortable with the idea of being puppets in which God pulls the strings.
Whereas others pull God's strings and make The Great I AM subservient to their wishes and desires. If God doesn't direct me, then I am directing myself. In this scenario I am a puppetmaster to myself. Wouldn't it be likened to, and more appropriate to say I am a god unto myself ? I am my own master. I call the shots. I am in charge. I make the rules. I decide. Who is in absolute, total control ?
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 10:59:13 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
So, the Good News is limited in scope ?
Gee, MM, are you really paying attention? Since I have successfully defended the fact that Christ died for everyone, how in the world could you even suggest that the gospel is limited in scope? It is your theology that limits the scope of the gospel to a limited few; you know, the frozen chosen, the select elect. But, to clarify so you can keep up, the good news is unlimited in scope.
The FULL THROTTLE can says only 3 a day...Where did you "successfully"
defend Christ died for everyone ? Everyone is elect and Heavenbound? Does God have favorites, intimates ? Who is the peculiar people ? You would have us believe in a "sloppy" work on the earth by Jesus. He failed.
Or perhaps, man's will is so powerful, or so valuable to God, that God would not violate it, even if it meant eternal life. Again, this is a twisted view of salvation. You would have us believe Jesus came to save ALL, but didn't ? WHY NOT ? The Marines won't leave a man behind, but Jesus will ?
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 11:10:46 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
But, to clarify so you can keep up, the good news is unlimited in scope.
How does everyone hear it then ? Pamphlets falling out of the sky in every tongue ? Nature is evidential, but only to a point. Again, you revert to the "what might or could happen" mindset. That's what you offer Free. If you agree that not everyone is saved, then you have "BAD" news. Some will not make the cut. Why ? You must say Jesus died for you to the unsaved. Where's the "good news" in that ?
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 11:19:30 AM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
You inadvertently proved my point !!!.......What about those who have not utilized their believing equipment correctly ? Did some receive an operator's manual ? Why did they perform the task, when other's failed ?
I don't see how I proved your point. Whether a person believes the gospel or rejects the gospel, they ARE using their "believing equipment" correctly. Seems to me that you just misunderstand that equipment. The "equipment" that you speak of goes either way, but apparently you are unaware of that.
Huh, God gives some 360s with red rings ? IOW, God the author of all things distributes some equipmnet that will not perform as intended ? So, God gives everyone the same equipment and only some have been given the ability to use it properly ? Do these others know that they possess faulty equipment ?...Or maybe they don't know it's broken ?...Perhaps, God (out of respect for FREE WILL) won't fix it !
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 12:38:15 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Why do you say by a "mystical process"? Did you note what I said? I said God hard wired man to be able to think. Man is therefore able to understand the good news and believe it. There is nothing mysical about it.
But, come to think of it, one who holds to a theology that accepts the idea of puppetry, thinking and acting on one's own might seem a bit "mystical".
As opposed to the self-quickening puppet...
Since everyone on this thread agrees that God is the only One who quickens, your comment only demonstrates your failure to grasp the issues being discussed.
Hardly...self-induced belief = self -quickening.
How many ways are there to say you are in error? We believe, God regenerates.
quote:
You might say God regenerates or even makes us willing, but implicit, nay, mandatory to your system is that man is able to realize belief on his own.
Man believing on his own is totally unrelated to being regenerated by God.
quote:
Everyone was not given the identical spiritual equipment.
Let's use better terminology. God created mankind in His own image, OK? As such, man has an intellect with which to think. One only believes what one understands, so thought processes are involved, which all have. So, your comment here is incorrect. We all have the "same equipment". The issue is that some use theirs differently than others.
quote:
Otherwise everyone would have reached the same conclusion.
There is no logic to this statement. See above.
quote:
Or, as you subscribe, we all have the same equipment, but some are fumbling for the "ON" switch.
Incorrect. Some push the "on" switch, and some push the "off" switch. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? We are "equipped" with both switches. That is what free will is all about.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 12:41:52 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Is that God's plan ? Watching and waiting on man to act or do something ?
Man must respond to the draw of God.
Is he a Stepford husband? Or.....
rw, you are actually quite close. To the reformists, they seem quite comfortable with the idea of being puppets in which God pulls the strings.
Whereas others pull God's strings and make The Great I AM subservient to their wishes and desires.
And just who would those "others" be? Please identify. You know that no one on this thread says that or even hints that. Again, you are simply demonstrating your misunderstanding of other positions.
quote:
If God doesn't direct me, then I am directing myself. In this scenario I am a puppetmaster to myself. Wouldn't it be likened to, and more appropriate to say I am a god unto myself ? I am my own master. I call the shots. I am in charge. I make the rules. I decide. Who is in absolute, total control ?
Your (no offense here) rantings again demonstrate your misunderstanding of my position. It is not likened to saying I am in charge or a god unto myself. Since it was God's plan to offer the free gift (Rom 6:23) of salvation to everyone, the receiption of that free gift through faith doesn't in any way put me in charge. It is God's plan. He remains in total control at all times.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 12:47:20 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
So, the Good News is limited in scope ?
Gee, MM, are you really paying attention? Since I have successfully defended the fact that Christ died for everyone, how in the world could you even suggest that the gospel is limited in scope? It is your theology that limits the scope of the gospel to a limited few; you know, the frozen chosen, the select elect. But, to clarify so you can keep up, the good news is unlimited in scope.
The FULL THROTTLE can says only 3 a day
Can you explain what any of this means? Thanks.
quote:
Where did you "successfully"defend Christ died for everyone ?
When you were "off thread". I suggest you review a "few" pages back.
quote:
Everyone is elect and Heavenbound?
Why do you think I believe in universalism when I don't?
quote:
Does God have favorites, intimates ? Who is the peculiar people ?
He has chosen believers, if that is what you are getting at.
quote:
You would have us believe in a "sloppy" work on the earth by Jesus. He failed.
Why would I "have" you believe such junk. He died for everyone, and offers that free gift of salvation to everyone. Those who don't receive it chose not to have it.
quote:
Or perhaps, man's will is so powerful, or so valuable to God, that God would not violate it, even if it meant eternal life. Again, this is a twisted view of salvation.
I agree, and it's not mine either. Why don't we stay on subject?
quote:
You would have us believe Jesus came to save ALL, but didn't ? WHY NOT ? The Marines won't leave a man behind, but Jesus will ?
The Marines have nothing to do with this issue. Why don't you read Rom 3:23-25. Paul tells us how one is justified freely, which is through faith in His blood. Guess what? He included the whole human race in who can be justified. Good reading!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 5/5/2008 12:49:25 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5950
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
But, to clarify so you can keep up, the good news is unlimited in scope.
How does everyone hear it then ? Pamphlets falling out of the sky in every tongue ? Nature is evidential, but only to a point. Again, you revert to the "what might or could happen" mindset. That's what you offer Free. If you agree that not everyone is saved, then you have "BAD" news.
Of course it isn't good that some refuse the gospel. But the good news is the gospel, which is offered to all. That doesn't mean that God faces everyone directly in the face as says "here, take this if you want it". But the Bible does promise that all who seek Him will be found by Him. What does that mean to you?
quote:
Some will not make the c | | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
