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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/26/2007 6:21:47 PM
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iBlieve
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quote:
That's between you and God.
That smells of moral relativism to me - everyone decides for himself what is right.
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Personally, I believe the principle Paul talked about in Corinthians applies to this. Some people thought it was a sin to eat certain meats because it had become tainted by being used in idol worship, while others believed it was perfectly acceptable to eat it. If it violated one's conscience, then to that person it was a sin. In the same way, if you believe God has called you to abstain from masturbation, then by all means do so. However, if someone else believes it's ok, then they shouldn't be looked down upon for that.
Actually, these are two different matters. Paul was writing regarding social issues that are done in public. His letter addresses mature Christians regarding their lack of concern for spiritually weaker believers. The mature believers understood that the idols the meat was sacrificed to were nothing. So going to the pagan temple "restaurants" to eat the meat was not a sinful practice. The weaker believer, who more than likely came from that pagan religion, would not necessarily have developed the understanding that the idols he used to worship are nothing. So to him, going back to the temple to eat meat was tantamount to going back to the temple to worship the pagan god. Was it wrong for the stronger believer to eat the meat? Absolutely not. But because his actions may cause his weaker brother to stumble, the stronger believer should refrain from eating meat in front of the weaker.
In today's society, Paul's letter could be addressed towards drinking alcoholic beverages. There are some Christians who see nothing wrong with having a glass of wine with dinner (yes, they do exist). There are some Christians, though, who may be recovering alcoholics. It would be highly insensitive for the stronger believer who imbibes to do so in front of the weaker who is a recovering alcoholic. The stronger believer's actions could cause the weaker believer to fall back into alcoholizm.
Unlike eating meat or drinking wine, masturbation is not a social issue. It isn't, I hope, practiced openly in public. Masturbation falls into the area of sexuality and procreation. Masturbation, whether or not it is done while lusting, is a sex act the same as oral sex or intercourse. The only difference is that masturbation is a solo act. The Bible is pretty clear that sex is only meant to take place between a husband and a wife. Any other practices constitutes adultery, including self-eroticism.
Paul
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/26/2007 7:13:11 PM
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rebelman
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Thank you Jawsmetroid and Ibieve for standing up for the principles of scripture. The moral relevism I seeing in this thread was starting to depress me.
This is clearly self sex. Sex in the Bible and according to God is meant for marriage. When the going gets tough I suppose people decide to do the "Whats right for you is right for you and whats wrong for you is wrong for you" argument which is clearly a post modern thought that has plagued into the Church scene and it really depresses me.
_____________________________
"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness"-----2 Corinthians 12:9
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 2:40:00 AM
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LivingForChrist07
Posts: 106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rebelman
The moral relevism I seeing in this thread was starting to depress me. Moral relativism more or less argues that ALL morality is relative to an individual or situation. I don’t think any pro-M camp will argue that murder, adultery, etc. are right since God clearly laid them out as sins.
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This is clearly self sex. Sex is between a couple, it is intercourse. M would not fall into this category.
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Sex in the Bible and according to God is meant for marriage. [/QUOTE] Correct. Sex is between two people; by your logic if you M that means you are no longer a virgin which is false. M can not be sex since sex involves intercourse which is between a COUPLE.
< Message edited by LivingForChrist07 -- 2/28/2007 2:44:40 AM >
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 2:45:45 AM
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LivingForChrist07
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iBlieve
That smells of moral relativism to me - everyone decides for himself what is right. Judging by the content of what the pro-M have said, they are no more relativists than you are. God has laid the foundations of morality and He has revealed to us what is sin; since M is not mentioned therefore they infer it is not a sin. This is NOT relativism as relativism implies everything is relative.
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Masturbation falls into the area of sexuality and procreation. How does M fall into procreation as you can't procreate anything via Ming.
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Masturbation, whether or not it is done while lusting, is a sex act the same as oral sex or intercourse. Sex involves two people, NOT ONE! You are equivocating the word to mean what it does not which is fallacious.
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The only difference is that masturbation is a solo act. Which rules out the sex part and procreation.
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The Bible is pretty clear that sex is only meant to take place between a husband and a wife. Right.
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Any other practices constitutes adultery, including self-eroticism. You drew the conclusion based on a fallacious definition of sex as it pertains to two people. Also, how would a single person who M-lustless- commit adultry?
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 2:48:09 AM
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LivingForChrist07
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Just curious what the anti-M camp think. Is M with your spouse a sin? If not, why is M while single a sin-assuming it is done without lust-?
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"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 4:51:56 PM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 210
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Do you have any solid biblical evidence to support your thesis, livingforchrist07? Or do you merely have arguments against ours? Make your point and where you stand before you jump in the middle of a discussion that has more than one aspect to it. The moral relativism we were referring to is on page 25, posted mostly by Elad, and we were discussing lust more than we were masturbating when those comments were made.
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 5:04:18 PM
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LivingForChrist07
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jawsmetroid
Do you have any solid biblical evidence to support your thesis, livingforchrist07? What's my thesis? The fact that sex is intercourse which can only be done by two people? Yes. Since you nor anyone else has shown I am curious if you have any Biblical evidence that supports the idea that masturbation is sex? If not I am curious as to why you are adding in words that are non-existent?
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Or do you merely have arguments against ours? I wasn't arguing but merely correcting faulty logic that has been presented.
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 5:22:55 PM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 210
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I'm not asking for your thesis, I'm asking you to support it with biblical evidence. Apparently, a person can have sex with an animal because the people were told not to do it. So, your definition of sex/intercourse being between two people is disproven. Leviticus 18:23.
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 6:02:47 PM
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Elad02
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There are many websites and books that have been written regarding this subject. Much of what I've read is by sexual addicts, or former sex addicts. From that point of view they see masturbation as a door that led them to more, worse, things. They don't see how someone can masturbate, and leave it at that, and not progress to other things. They assume that because they went through that, that all guys are like that and will do the same thing. That's not true. They look at masturbation as something reprehensible, and the people who do it are essentially made out to be sex crazed perverts. We're taught that if we have any sexual feelings or thoughts we're some sex maniac. Some even thought that women were only for sexual pleasure, so again, they assume that, because they're a man, every other man must think the same way. That's not true either.
I believe this does fit in the example in Romans (or Corinthians). Those Christians who are sex addicts, or those who were, couldn't do this without thinking of things done in the past. Similarly, those who believe it will lead to more can't do it in faith either. To these people it would be a sin. If someone can masturbate without a guilty conscience, they're doing it in faith, believing it's not a sin. That's not moral relativism.
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quote:
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ORIGINAL: jawsmetroid
Do you have any solid biblical evidence to support your thesis, livingforchrist07?
What's my thesis? The fact that sex is intercourse which can only be done by two people? Yes. Since you nor anyone else has shown I am curious if you have any Biblical evidence that supports the idea that masturbation is sex? If not I am curious as to why you are adding in words that are non-existent?
I guess it's a matter of how one defines sex. With intercourse, you have a relationship with someone, and have an emotional and spiritual connection with them, aside from the physical. Masturbation is only physical.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 6:37:20 PM
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spectre16
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you state the without lust and i am wondering what is on your mind while performing M is it going shopping or doing some house cleaning I doubt it and I would bet it is lust dreaming about someone you wish you where having sex with
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ORIGINAL: LivingForChrist07
Just curious what the anti-M camp think. Is M with your spouse a sin? If not, why is M while single a sin-assuming it is done without lust-?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 7:58:20 PM
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LivingForChrist07
Posts: 106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jawsmetroid
I'm not asking for your thesis, I'm asking you to support it with biblical evidence. I'M ASKING YOU TO DO THE SAME! I have already mentioned that sex in the Bible is mentioned between two people becoming one flesh. Intercourse is sex between TWO people. You have refused to answer a very basic question.
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So, your definition of sex/intercourse being between two people is disproven. Leviticus 18:23.
It mentions sexual relations with an animal. It does not mention them becoming one flesh. However, you can not provide a verse for me where M is mentioned let alone seen as sex via the Bible so you bring about bestiality. Is it safe to conclude that you can not find a verse mentioning M being sinful let alone sex? You still haven’t answered my questions...
Is M with your spouse a sin? If not, why is M while single a sin-assuming it is done without lust-? Also, how would a single person who M-lust less- commit adultery? And finally do you lose your virginity because of M since you claim it is sex?
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 8:01:17 PM
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LivingForChrist07
Posts: 106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spectre16
you state the without lust and i am wondering what is on your mind while performing M is it going shopping or doing some house cleaning No. When I did perform the act I had no, NO, thoughts at all. I am still maturing and my hormones are raging and so this was a way out of the urges.
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I doubt it and I would bet it is lust dreaming about someone you wish you where having sex with
Well you are plain and simply wrong.
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 2/28/2007 11:50:22 PM
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iBlieve
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/25/2007
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quote:
Sex involves two people, NOT ONE! You are equivocating the word to mean what it does not which is fallacious.
Livingforchrist07,
I give you the definistions for sex and masturbate as found in the Second Collegiate Edition New World Dictionary. ©1978 by William Collins & World Publishing, Inc. Library of Congress Catalog #77-93514. ISBN 60B 0-529-05324-1 & ISBN 60BI 0-529-05326-8.
Definition #3 for Sex found on page 1305 - "Anything connected with sexual gratification or reproduction or the urge for these; exp. the attraction of those of one sex for those of the other."
Definition for Masturbate found on page 874 - "to manipulate one's own genitals, or the genitals of (another), for sexual gratification."
Sex is not sex only when it takes place between two people. Intercourse, copulation, and coitus are all words that refer to sexual gratification between two people of the opposite gender. Homosexuality refers to sexual gratification between two people of the same gender. Beastiality refers to sexual gratification between a person and an animal. Masturbation refers to sexual gratification which is administered by either oneself or another person. If more than one person is involved, a physical union is not involved, only stimulation of the genitals.
By your own admission to spectr16, you said you have masturbated because "this was a way out of the urges" referring to your raging hormones. If that isn't masturbating to achieve sexual gratification, then I don't know what is. And based on the definition for sex above, sexual gratification OF ANY KIND is sex.
Now, prove to me that masturbating is not sex.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 12:06:00 AM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 210
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Shorts all year, MN
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quote:
To these people it would be a sin. If someone can masturbate without a guilty conscience, they're doing it in faith, believing it's not a sin. That's not moral relativism.
Yes, it is. It's saying 'I can do what I want because I don't have a guilty conscience about it'. If it makes a brother stumble you shouldn't even be doing it. Your view makes me look like a spiritual wimp and you look like a macho man. It initiates jealousy. That is not an okay view to have given the reactions you can get out of people from a biblical standpoint, as we are to live at peace with everyone as far as it depends on you.
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From that point of view they see masturbation as a door that led them to more, worse, things. They don't see how someone can masturbate, and leave it at that, and not progress to other things. They assume that because they went through that, that all guys are like that and will do the same thing.
All guys have more of a sex drive than girls. That has been proven. So yes, all guys are 'like that'. We all have a sinful nature.
Also, masturbation usually leaves one more open to lust- I'm not the only one that says that. Many guys will say the same. Can you prove otherwise?
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With intercourse, you have a relationship with someone, and have an emotional and spiritual connection with them, aside from the physical. Masturbation is only physical.
Then why would the translators use the word 'intercourse' to say what the Hebrew intended in Leviticus 18:23?
Also, Elad, why are you jumping from arguing that fantacizing is okay to arguing that Masturbation is okay? It would be more logical for you to try and prove me wrong about the fantacizing than the masturbation, unless you are admitting that you were wrong or dropping the subject. Which is it?
< Message edited by jawsmetroid -- 3/1/2007 12:09:34 AM >
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 12:13:53 AM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 210
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From: Shorts all year, MN
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quote:
Is it safe to conclude that you can not find a verse mentioning M being sinful let alone sex? You still haven’t answered my questions...
It is well known that there are no verses in the Bible specifically talking about masturbation. However, I'm not arguing with you about masturbation. I was merely saying that your definition of sex was wrong from a biblical standpoint.
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However, you can not provide a verse for me where M is mentioned let alone seen as sex via the Bible so you bring about bestiality.
Again, I was using that verse to say that biblically, your definition of sex as being between two people is wrong.
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I'M ASKING YOU TO DO THE SAME! I have already mentioned that sex in the Bible is mentioned between two people becoming one flesh. Intercourse is sex between TWO people. You have refused to answer a very basic question.
I've given my evidence for my thesis that I was arguing with you, and you seem to be content in attacking the person rather than the argument. That is called a logical fallacy. Please refrain from engaging in this fallacy, as it does not help your argument or the debate.
And a note for all: let's keep this civil. We don't need to be getting offended- we are having a simple debate about an issue.
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 1:02:38 AM
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LivingForChrist07
Posts: 106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jawsmetroid
It is well known that there are no verses in the Bible specifically talking about masturbation. Then I’m not sure why people condemn it on here.
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However, I'm not arguing with you about masturbation. I was merely saying that your definition of sex was wrong from a biblical standpoint. No it’s not. Bestiality is not sex. Where in the verse does it mention someone becoming one in flesh with the animal?
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I've given my evidence for my thesis that I was arguing with you, and you seem to be content in attacking the person rather than the argument. No seeing how I’ve never attacked you via an ad hominem. If I were to actually commit the fallacy it would go like this:
1. X argues B.
2. Y attacks X's intellegence as well as his education.
3. Therefore Y has argued fallaciously by avoiding B's content.
If I have done this please show me where.
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That is called a logical fallacy. What is a logical fallacy? An ad hominem would be me invoking personal information about you to counter your point which I have not done.
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And a note for all: let's keep this civil. We don't need to be getting offended- we are having a simple debate about an issue.
Sorry but I see nothing wrong with my post. If you see some sort of “fallacies” my apologies but that is not my intention.
< Message edited by LivingForChrist07 -- 3/1/2007 1:14:54 AM >
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 1:05:49 AM
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LivingForChrist07
Posts: 106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iBlieve
Now, prove to me that masturbating is not sex.
Wow then why aren't we condemning people for having nocturnal emissions? After all yes it is sexual gratification because the dreams as well as the feeling that accompanies it. See how silly this sounds? To say you are having sex because you masturbated is absurd.
No one seems to answer this but IF I M DOES THAT MEAN I AM NO LONGER A VIRGIN?
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Definition #3 for Sex found on page 1305 - "Anything connected with sexual gratification or reproduction or the urge for these; exp. the attraction of those of one sex for those of the other." Sex is “sexual intercourse.” What is sexual intercourse? "Genital contact, espcially the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation."
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Sex is not sex only when it takes place between two people. Do you have any sources for this claim.
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Intercourse, copulation, and coitus are all words that refer to sexual gratification between two people of the opposite gender. Sexual intercourse is “genital contact, espcially the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.”
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Homosexuality refers to sexual gratification between two people of the same gender. Homosexuality involves genitals therefore it is sexual intercourse.
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Beastiality refers to sexual gratification between a person and an animal. So you can lose your virginity to an animal?
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Masturbation refers to sexual gratification which is administered by either oneself or another person. SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WHICH IS SEX DOES NOT REFER TO M. Who do you lose your virginity to, yourself?
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By your own admission to spectr16, you said you have masturbated because "this was a way out of the urges" referring to your raging hormones. Yes and so are wet dreams.
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If that isn't masturbating to achieve sexual gratification, then I don't know what is. Where in my post did I mention me purposely doing it to attain gratification? Like many other single men, when you are going through puberty and wet dreams do not come you go "insane."
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And based on the definition for sex above, sexual gratification OF ANY KIND is sex. Based on your fallacious equivocating of the words then yes, M like nocturnal emissions are “sex” which is faulty. I've personally had an "emission" in the shower from the water, so what did I have sex with? The water?
< Message edited by LivingForChrist07 -- 3/1/2007 1:16:30 AM >
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 1:22:30 AM
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LivingForChrist07
Posts: 106
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I'm still waiting for answers for "Is M with your spouse a sin? If not, why is M while single a sin-assuming it is done without lust-? Also, how would a single person who M-lust less- commit adultery? And finally do you lose your virginity because of M since you claim it is sex?"
_____________________________
"Our philosophical commitment to materialism and reductionism is true, but I would prefer to characterize it as philosophical commitment to a real explanation as opposed to a complete lack of explanation which is what you espouse."
-Richard Dawk
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 1:47:22 AM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 210
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From: Shorts all year, MN
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quote:
No it’s not. Bestiality is not sex. Where in the verse does it mention someone becoming one in flesh with the animal?
Bible calls it intercourse, same Hebrew word one uses for sex between people.
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What is a logical fallacy? An ad hominem would be me invoking personal information about you to counter your point which I have not done.
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Is it safe to conclude that you can not find a verse mentioning M being sinful let alone sex? You still haven’t answered my questions...
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Wow then why aren't we condemning people for having nocturnal emissions? After all yes it is sexual gratification because the dreams as well as the feeling that accompanies it. See how silly this sounds? To say you are having sex because you masturbated is absurd.
I don't know about anyone else on this thread but the two times I have had a nocturnal emission it was not accompanied by a dream. I say this because I woke up immediatly when it started and would remember if I was dreaming anything. Nocturnal emissions are a natural way to release sexual tension requiring no conscious thought.
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Do you have any sources for this claim.
The source was stated quite clearly:
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Second Collegiate Edition New World Dictionary. ©1978 by William Collins & World Publishing, Inc. Library of Congress Catalog #77-93514. ISBN 60B 0-529-05324-1 & ISBN 60BI 0-529-05326-8.
They even included page numbers.
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Yes and so are wet dreams.
No. See my second point in this post for evidence.
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Based on your fallacious equivocating of the words then yes, M like nocturnal emissions are “sex” which is faulty. I've personally had an "emission" in the shower from the water, so what did I have sex with? The water?
Nocturnal emissions are not sex or sexual gratification, as they do not happen as a result of conscience thought. And please do not try and tell me that you can masturbate with no conscience thought. That requires conscience thought, and please do not ask me to explain why.
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SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WHICH IS SEX DOES NOT REFER TO M. Who do you lose your virginity to, yourself?
Yes. I have lost my virginity because of this. I have not been faithful to God or a possible future wife in this matter. I am a sinner. Is that so hard to accept?
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"Is M with your spouse a sin? If not, why is M while single a sin-assuming it is done without lust-? Also, how would a single person who M-lust less- commit adultery? And finally do you lose your virginity because of M since you claim it is sex?"
Masturbating with your wife? Why would you do that when you can just have sex?
Conscience sexual gratification, aka masturbation, goes against God's plan for this to happen with a wife. The two will become one flesh- unified in spirit by sexual intercourse, among other things.
I believe I already answered the last one.
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So you can lose your virginity to an animal?
Yes. Again, why is that so hard to accept? Of course, why on earth would one do it in the first place? Are they that desparate? Gross... 
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 12:44:52 PM
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setfree2
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1st, I haven't read all the postings on this topic, I don't have time to do that.
Masturbation is gratifying oneself. Galatians 5:16 ESV But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. I think this states what the Bible says about masturbation.
I don't remember how it was stated about masturbation with your wife with you in an earlier post, but here is my take: there maybe reasons why a couple may have to turn to masturbation. The one that come to mind is long term illness for either of the couple. But the act must be done with the partner there even if he or she can not take part. Well that is my 2 cents worth.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 10:28:38 PM
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iBlieve
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/25/2007
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quote:
Wow then why aren't we condemning people for having nocturnal emissions? After all yes it is sexual gratification because the dreams as well as the feeling that accompanies it. See how silly this sounds? To say you are having sex because you masturbated is absurd.
If a man engages in intercourse with a woman, he is in control of his body and his thoughts. If a man should engage in homosexual activity with another man, he is in control of his body and his thoughts. If a man commits bestiality, he is in control of his body and his thoughts. If a man masturbates, he is in control of his body and his thoughts.
Are you in control of your thoughts when you are asleep? No. Are you in control of what your body does when you are asleep. Again, no. So to say you committed a sin because you had a wet dream would be absurd.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 11:27:10 PM
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iBlieve
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/25/2007
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quote:
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Sex is not sex only when it takes place between two people.
Do you have any sources for this claim.
I already gave you the source for my information in post #638 above -- the definitions for sex and masturbate.
Below are links to information about masturbation on sex education websites. They all indicate that it is done for sexual pleasure/gratification. If you refer back to post #638 you will see that I proved that anything that is (intentionally) done for sexual pleasure, or sexual gratification, is sex.
http://www.sexetc.org/glossary/1175 (a definition for masturbation)
http://www.aboutmasturbation.com/Article22.phtml (first sentence in article calls it "sexual self-gratification" )
http://www.avert.org/puberty3.htm (last sentence under "At what age do boys and girls start to get sexual feelings?" refers to masturbation as a "sexual experience")
http://www.penisresearch.com/masturbation.htm (first sentence states "...deliberate stimulation of one's own genitals to achieve sexual arousal and pleasure.")
There are many more sex ed websites that say the same thing. You can check for yourself by Googling "sex education" then search for masturbation on any website listed. That is what I did.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2007 11:36:51 PM
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iBlieve
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/25/2007
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quote:
Where in my post did I mention me purposely doing it to attain gratification?
If you go back and read your post #637, this is your first comment to spectr16 when he questions what you think about when you masturbate if you don't lust:
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No. When I did perform the act I had no, NO, thoughts at all. I am still maturing and my hormones are raging and so this was a way out of the urges.
Your statement of "When I did perform the act" tells me that you did masturbate at least once in your life.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/2/2007 12:00:03 AM
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iBlieve
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/25/2007
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quote:
Based on your fallacious equivocating of the words then yes, M like nocturnal emissions are “sex” which is faulty. I've personally had an "emission" in the shower from the water, so what did I have sex with? The water?
You know, this discussion reminds me of a situation between a former US president and a White House intern when it was discovered that the two had engaged in a few "pleasures of the flesh" together in the Oval Office. Even though the former president's semen was found on the interns dress, the former president was adamant the he "did not have sex with that woman." It would appear that this former president has the same definition for the word sex as does LivingForChrist07 - it's not sex unless intercourse is involved. So tell me then, if the former president and the White House intern were not engaged in sexual activity, how did his semen get on her dress?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/2/2007 12:07:36 AM
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iBlieve
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/25/2007
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quote:
Yes. I have lost my virginity because of this. I have not been faithful to God or a possible future wife in this matter. I am a sinner. Is that so hard to accept?
Perhaps it is hard for LivingForChrist07 to accept. That may be why he is so adamant that anything other than intercourse is not sex. Maybe he is affraid that if he admits that masturbation is another form of sex, and because it would appear that he has masturbated at least once in his life, he will be admitting that he, too, has sinned in this area.
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