quote:

ORIGINAL: NewChristian1

I like to make sure that everything I do, I would do in front of Jesus, in a physical sense. Now, that does nto include masturbation. Obviously I would not want to be masturbating in front of Jesus. Although He is watching from above, He is not here physically. If I saw Jesus physically when I come to physically pleasure myself (with or without lust) then I would definately stop.

So, would that be a sin or not? I like to think that anything you would not do with Jesus present physically would be a sin. But I am unsure about the issue of masturbation.

quote:

Well, this is my two cents. Masterbation can be divided into 2 groups: Lustful masterbation, and masterbation without lust

That is true. There can be masturbation without lust, and I am one that does, on occasion, masturbate without lustful thoughts. I have been in a group with my church that dealt with this very issue, and every guy there seemed to have been in agreement that you can masturbate without lustful thoughts. Our pastures agree that it is not a sin to masturbate, it is only the thoughts.

God bless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfvanzandt

The problem with these consolidated threads is that it inhibits people reading what has gone before and much repetition is required.

NewChristin, that has been brought up. Would you feel comfortable urinating or defecating in front of the Lord? I would place masturbation in the calss of such private functions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfvanzandt

quote:

But, is it ever ok to remain bound to an negative addiction of any kind, even when there is no physical concequenes?

It's a pretty far stretch to call masturbation an addiction when it's required at a frequency around 25 times a month to prevent prostate cancer. It's simply a health maintenance procedure.

quote:

Masterbation may be good, but is it the best God has for us?

It actually seems to be what God provided for us to maintain our health in several categories (if you read the research in the original threads, you will see that it reduces problems in several areas). It seems to be the preventative maintenance of choice for some problems so, yes, I figure it is the best God has for us for those parts of our life that requires such maintenance.

quote:

Everytime that I M-d since I've been porn free, it's the only thing that keeps bringing all that trash back up in my mind. I don't want to talk to anyone afterwards for several days. I'm tired of cleaning up after myself, and the time I waste.

That's sorta like Pavlov's dogs. You've associated a good thing (masturbation) with a bad thing (pornography) so that when one occurs, the other comes to mind. THat's certainly a problem with pornography - it even dirties up good things - it pervades your life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NewChristian1

I like to make sure that everything I do, I would do in front of Jesus, in a physical sense. Now, that does nto include masturbation. Obviously I would not want to be masturbating in front of Jesus. Although He is watching from above, He is not here physically. If I saw Jesus physically when I come to physically pleasure myself (with or without lust) then I would definately stop.

So, would that be a sin or not? I like to think that anything you would not do with Jesus present physically would be a sin. But I am unsure about the issue of masturbation.

quote:

Well, this is my two cents. Masterbation can be divided into 2 groups: Lustful masterbation, and masterbation without lust

That is true. There can be masturbation without lust, and I am one that does, on occasion, masturbate without lustful thoughts. I have been in a group with my church that dealt with this very issue, and every guy there seemed to have been in agreement that you can masturbate without lustful thoughts. Our pastures agree that it is not a sin to masturbate, it is only the thoughts.

God bless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guy_On_Fire_For_God

I can't get over the fact that people think that masturbation is possible without lust period. I just don't believe it. I've been there. I've masturbated without thinking about things in my head, sure, but just because I didn't think about things in my head while I was doing it, did that mean I wasn't lusting? What about leading up to it? What did I fill my head with all day long? The fact of the matter is, and every guy knows this, you need to be aroused to masturbate. So how do you get aroused then? Without lust period? I disagree. There had to be something that happened during the day that drives a person to masturbate later.
I see this in my own life now. I don't lust during the day. I bounce my eyes, I change my thoughts, I meditate and ponder Scripture. I don't even THINK about masturbation and being aroused, and I'm not. Do I still notice beautiful women? Yes. However I have no urge to be aroused and am not aroused, therefore I have no urge to masturbate.
Get it? Sexual urge lead to arousal leads to masturbation. It all starts somewhere, it just doesn't hit you like a bolt of lightning!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TimCha7

hi,

I'm a new member here, just signed up. I saw this thread here that deals with an issue that bothers me quite a lot. Everytime I struggle with it and I fall into the desire to do it; the next day I become very depressed for several hours afterwards. I am stuck on the issue of the right and wrong of the issue; all I know recently Holy spirit is been dealing with me about
surrendering myself to Jesus more and put everything under the blood.

Thanks,
Tim

quote:

ORIGINAL: Williamtell

I've been watching this thread for a couple of weeks, trying to organize my own thoughts and understand and place in proper context some of the comments I've read.
One of the challenging things about this kind of communication is whether everyone's on the same page as far as what some things mean. But I have a thought or two I'd like to share. If I write something that seems too obvious, bear with me. It's about being on the same page.

God created all of us. He created us male and female. It's no mistake or chance thing that men have a penis and women have a vagina, right? It's also no mistake that what God created fits together in a perfect fit, right?

God created us for intimate physical, mental, emotional and spiritual relationship with Him. He also created us for this same kind of intimate relationship with our wives. He also gave us this unbelievable ability to create a new life. WOW! And He made it incredibly fun to do, especially if we have to practice a lot to get it right!

Here's the thing. If we take away any of the components God created to be involved in the process, it's going to be incomplete, right?

Just so you know, I'm not preaching to anyone. I accidentally (like many) learned to masterbate at age 13. By the time I realized some of the problems I was creating for myself, I'm certain the number of times I did the deed would have required several zero's.

Here are a few of the things I realized:

1. When you masterbate, you're pleasuring yourself without the benefit of all of the elements God desired you should enjoy in the process:love for your wife, love for Him for all He's given including your wife, and many, many more.

2. When you masterbate, you're actually teaching yourself to gain pleasure without anyone else and without the joy of entering into the action as the result of the special bond that true love and relationship builds. What will you know when you're angry with your spouse?: "I can take care of myself!". Which is the same thing as thinking "I don't need you for this!". If you're pleasuring yourself before marriage and you think you'll be able to change this thinking when you're married, good luck!

3. Masterbating is good for my health. (see 7 below)

4. I've heard guys talk about "blue balls" or being in so much pain "if they don't do something about it soon they're going to bust!" (see 7 below)

5. Recently I connected with a teenage relative on a family Facebook page. When I looked at his page there was a piece of artwork that depicted a male and female body outline standing side by side. The only body part that was detailed was the brain. The female brain was pictured in the head region, the male brain was pictured in the penal area. I laughed, but then I realized just how much wisdom was contained in that simple illustration. Is your big head in control or is the little head in control? (see 7 below)

6. It's not a sin if I masterbate without lust. Right! The Bible tells us that anything that separates us from God is a sin. (see 7 below)

7. It seems to me that it all boils down to: Who's in control? If I'm in control, it means that I've told God "thanks but no thanks for the gift of your Son. I'll take care of things myself (my urges, my desires, my salvation, etc.)" If God's in control, it means that He's making me a new creation. He's involved in a transformation process in me and through me. No matter what habits I've had in the past. No matter what sins I've committed in the past. No matter who I was yesterday; today, in Him, I'm a new creation. And tomorrow. And the next day, and the next day, etc. Paul said "I die daily to self." It's a daily process. Regarding 3: If the One who spoke the universe into existance can't take care of my prostate, I don't think anything can. Regarding 4: If the One who... can't take care of my desires or my pain, I've got bigger problems than blue balls, etc. Regarding 5 & 6: At least a dozen times a day, because of the habits I followed for a long time I have to claim 2 Corinthians 10:5 - "Lord, take every thought captive in obedience to Jesus."

Finally, "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love." John 15:9 "I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." Galations 2:20 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight." Proverbs 3:5-6 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit." Ephesians 5:22-25.

Be Blessed!

PS: If you want to read a history lesson about people that did things God told them not to do because they wanted to, read about the Children of Israel in the Word. The results weren't ever good!

quote:

ORIGINAL: tylakeland

Ive been coming here for a while, not posted untill today though.

I have noticed that if a person WANTS to masturbate and is trying to stop because they FEEL guilty, its not usually that successful. For a while I Tried to stop masturbating, but I wanted to masturbate. Every morning I woke up with that erection, and I felt that I could not function unless I made it go away.

When I finally realized I was addicted to masturbation, I came to the conclusion that it is wrong. This may sound weird, but masturbation increases my desire for porn. I rarely ever want to look at porn unless ive been masturbating for the last couple of days and the thrill is starting to ware off.

I've been fighting this for literally two years now. I've always felt that something was weird about it. It seems to be from the conversations I've had is that most men learned to masturbate accidently on their own, or through some inapproprate situation with a peer or a family member. However we learned, we learned and we liked it. The feeling of masturbation is a very pleasurable one. As I grew into adulthood, I would frequently masturbate after I got home from work or after a workout. Some say its just a normal function.

If masturbation is a function that people, especailly men HAVe to do, then why did God allow men to have nocturnal emissions, or wet dreams? After I started masturbating, I stopped having wet dreams. THere was no need for them because I was releaving myself.

So then the battle begins. We try to stop and then eventually, whenther its the next dya or next month, we doi it again, and have to get back on the wagon. The emotions that follow, are guilt, shame, embarassment, sometimes even a lethargic apathetic attitude. There were times that I did not care anymore and said, "Im just going to do it, and get it over with." But that didnt help either.

Mind you, during this whole time, I was watching R rated movies which had sexaully explicit scenes in them, sexually forward shows like Nip/tuck or any paycable shows, and even stupid stuff like grey anatomy. I was feeding myself junk and was trying to live a healthy life. Something had to happen.

One thing I never did, was stop talking and listening to God. I knew that I had to do something different. I started having morning devotions, and stepping up my prayer life. You know what happend?

I would have an erection during my early morning devotions! What the heck! And Eventually after studyin g the bible, I'd masturbate. How pathectic. But the problem was that I was treating my personal devotion as an elixer for masturbation instead of just growing closer to God.

Well, this has been going on for about a year now, Im praying more and studying my Bible more. No more nasty movies and tv. And its helping...a bit. Curently I've only done it once in the Last month whcih is a mighty victory in Gods grace. THe thing that has helped is the fact that, Im hating masturbation. OIt may feel good at the moment, but everything else about it sucks.

My urge to everyone dealing, is hold on. Its tough to break, but God can do it. Sometimes I have to pray a 911 prayer in the morning before I get out of bed, because i'm at that point where I just want to tame that thing! But God has gotten me through it. And please remember. You DONT HAVE to masturbate. Your baody can handle it. Its your brain that makes you think you need it. You dont. You dont have to masturbate. You really dont. Ask God to change your attitude. And also remeber its a marathon not a 50 yd dash. Be patient with God, He's been more than patient with you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pastorjr2

For me it's simple. I used to masturbate even after I was married. But one day I realized that it brought back memories of relationships past. The guilt of thinking of other women I had been with before marriage actually made me feel rather unfaithful to my wife (after all the Bible does say that lusting after another woman other than your wife with your eyes [even in your thoughts] is a sin). Then, one day while praying, God said that because lust was always a big problem for me, He would rather I didn't do it. That settled the topic for me. I do my best at being obedient to the things that God requires of me-and If God says something to me about anything, that's enough.

As for every other poster, if you haven't heard God saying not to do it, it may not be the case for you. The problem is that 'lust' "has been put off" with the 'old man' on the day that God extended his grace to us and gave us salvation. So, if lust is a problem for you, or was as it were, then my opinion is that it should be avoided at all costs. Besides, if I thought of my wife doing it to the tune of a 'different drummer' than the drummer she's married to...... I really don't think that would sit well with me.

Just my thoughts. No real reference in the Bible about it either way, but the sin of lust is .

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfvanzandt

Frankly, I could care less if other people masturbate or not. It's not my issue. What conserns me is the fact that there is nothing in the Bible against it. There is not evidence of any harmful effects except those related to guilt (and why should a Christian feel guilty about something God doesn't prohibit?). There is quite a lot of evidence that it is needed to maintain good health. In short, there is nothing wrong with it and everything good about it (as far as all evidence - Biblical, medical, etc.) . And there are still people trying to persuade others that it's wrong for them (the others) to be doing it. That screams legalism to high heaven.

So you folks convince 10 men that masturbation is wrong to the point that they stop doing it. Statistically, 3 of them will develop prostate cancer. One will probably die. Is your opinions that important?

As I said, I really don't care about the masturbation - the legalism, though - that bothers me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Williamtell

wolfvanzandt and others,

If the Bible doesn't say anything about a specific topic, does that mean God's Word doesn't apply to that topic?

If this is true, then there are many things that are ok!

Like pedophilia, using illigal drugs, (make a list), etc. Of course, whether you have children or not, I'll bet you don't believe this to be true!? And yet?

We are called to purity, in all things, in Christ!

We have to stop using the Word of God as a means of justifying what we want to do on the basis of whether God deals with the specific issue or not. Take the Word in it's totallity. The Holy Spirit will "teach us and remind us of all that (He) said." We are called to surrender everything in our lives to Him, not just the pieces that are easy to surrender.

And, the things that He doesn't take away may very well be the thorn in our side. This, also, is according to God's plan in order to teach us reliance totally and only on Him. The very story of Paul's "thorn" is proof of this.

Be Blessed!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DAVIDNEELEY

ROMANS 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof

Matthew 16:24-26
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Our Heavenly Father is kind, and merciful, and loving, and forgiving.
For those who have a heart to 'come after me' every sin will eventually go away as 'death to self' occurs.

GOD'S promise in CHRIST JESUS is that HE will never leave or forsake us. HE will ever caution, warn, remind, and admonish HIS followers to forsake their sin. Details, details, details, obedience only needs the Glance of Christ to know that sin has occurred and repentance is needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatholicCritter

quote:

Smoking causes more physical harm, but we don't believe smokers go to hell for lighting up. Scientist have proven that nicotine is an addictive agent. And, most people won't disagree that it's wrong to keep smoking, and suffer the effects (heart attack, emphacima, cancer, etc).

Knowing what we know about cigarettes and their damage, it becomes a sin against the 5th commandment to do it, IMO. Deliberate actions which harm our bodies is a sin, plain and simple so smoking is not really comparable to masturbation in this sense.

quote:

But, is it ever ok to remain bound to an negative addiction of any kind, even when there is no physical concequenes?

No, it is not. Addiction represents idolatry. We worship something other than God by depending physically, emotionally, and psychologically on it and not on God.

quote:

Masterbation may be good, but is it the best God has for us?

This seems to be an assumption taken up by most here but it is wrong. To be good, it must be of God. Self-gratification and gratuitous pleasure is not of God and never has been. Paul speaks of subduing his body daily to deal with those thorns of the flesh, providing the model for us.

quote:

Everytime that I M-d since I've been porn free, it's the only thing that keeps bringing all that trash back up in my mind. I don't want to talk to anyone afterwards for several days.

That's because God's law is written in our hearts. We know that masturbation does not feel 'right' after the deed and there's a reason for that--God has told us so. Sex is the giving of ourselves to another. We can't give ourselves to ourselves and so we see the problem. People would rather justify this action than exert self-control--considered a virtue since the beginning.

quote:

It's simply a health maintenance procedure.

So if science suddenly stated that having an abortion was actually healthy for the mom, your train of thought would deem it morally good? See, there are no victimless sins. Just because you can't see the effect that masturbation has on others does not mean it does not exist. But most of all, it effects God and shouldn't that be the biggest reason not to do it?

quote:

Each person walks with God in a little different way.

Yes, the only way to justify this act is to push moral relativism. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Truth does not change. If it did, abortion would be objectively good today since we now have the license to perform the act in a more scientifically sound manner.

quote:

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that M was God's "way of escape" for the singles to have a needed sexual release with out sinning.

That's like saying, 'If God didn't want us to masturbate, he'd have given us shorter arms!'. The logic is absurd. God does not provide 'escapes'. Rather, he takes up His Cross and dies a brutal death. He expects the same of us--take up your cross daily and follow Him. Does this sound like an avenue of escape to you? The reason people have left the faith, committed suicide, et al, is because they chose to be their own moral guide. The Church has taught for 2000 years that this act is sinful at its core. The guilt that pushes people to leave, commit suicide, etc. comes from the act itself, not from being told that it's sinful.

Don't buy into the 'if it feels good, then do it' lies that the world tells you. Use Paul as a model--subdue yourselves and work out your salvation in fear and trembling. Self giving love is what rules the day, not self love and the slippery slope of moral relativism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tylakeland

Its definately difficult to stop. But one thing that helps is putting your mind on something else. Fellas, I know its tough! But something has got to change! We cant keep going back to our own puke. I know what its like to be in ministry and have this on your back. It feels horrible. And when you go to other men, they either judge you and attack, or their so far into it themselves they cant see their way out either.

At the end of the day, we're all men, and all struggling with SOMETHING. Some its porn, some masturbation, some affairs, some drugs, some food. Whatever it is. We all have the answer. Its Jesus. "Oh yeah, well Jesus isnt going to take the porn off of the internet." Okay, then dont go to the site. Have some self-control. Thats one of the fruits of the SPirit. Ask God to help you with your self-control. In fact just ask God.

I can admit this, before I started having even small victories, I wasn't praying much. I wasnt reading my Bible as much as I could, and most importantly, I wasnt listening to God speak to me. I was so busy watching espn and masturbating, the only thing I paid attention to was my penis, the box scores, and my belly. And just like a fella who wants to lose weight. I had to get on a plan.


It takes action. Gods not going to stop you from having erections. How about this, leave your penis alone and try starving it. Try not watching anything that has sexual content, even on tv. And replace that time that you would be looking at pornography by writing down everyone you came in contact with during the day and praying for the Lord to send His Holy Spirit to give them wisdom and understanding of truth.

Fellas, I'm in the fight with you, last night it was hard, but God got me through, I had to turn on some Spiritual music on my mp3. Keep safeguards handy instead of lube and lotion. That leads me to another thing. Get a trash can and throw away the lotion, the vaseline, the magazines, your wifes victoria secrets, the jC penny catalogues. All of it. If it makes you horny, get rid of it! You dont need the added stress.

I know you all have heard this before, but if you want the victory, it really is yours for the having. Jesus already did what it took, He showed us how to defeat temptation. He did it through the word of God. Thats all he had in the wilderness when Lucifer went after him. Jesus knew His word and He claimed the Word. Can you do that. Lets all find ways to get on plans to seek the word and memorize it, to eat it and to drink it more often.

THere are Adudio Bibles that you can get for mp3 players and cd players too. Before you surf the wb, do a search on biblegateway.com. The key is to stop focusing on your penis. Dont waste you life over something so small. (Please...no jokes here) Really, God can make you into someone new. I see all of these men in the church who are dealing with this and it pains me. The devil has got us right where he wants us. Brainwashed, overdosed on porn and masturbation, caught up in sports and booze, beating our children and disrespecting our wives. our poor guardian angels must be in tears as they see us just working and going home and spanking ourselves to death! There is so much we can do.

God has so many things that need done. There are people who dont have food, people need jobs, people need clothes and homes. They need us...the ones who are chrisitans, to show them the way. How can we do that if we've got our pants around our ankels! We can't, and the longer we allow ourselves to get off easily and just wallow in our own funk, we will never amount to anything useful. Get up men! Lets' use our eyes to search out things that God can use us to do. Lets surf the internet for missions opportunities and service to our communities. Lets use our hands to actually do some homework with our kids, or tuck them in, or cook a meal for our wives. Or some laundry. Lets not continue this self abuse, and be real men of God.

Dont forget to pray for wisdom and strength. Remember this...for all you people who struggle with masturbation. You don't have to touch it, it will hurt for a bit, but then it'll get the idea, and take care of itself. Let your body learn how to work the right way. You dont have the power to do it, but God does.

God bless you all, He is all powerful, let Him show you!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

To me - I see masturbation as being under the word "sexual immorality." And, when I read this in Ephesians: "This is the will of God... that you abstain from sexual immorality..."

- Then this is how I see it: "This is the will of God ... that you abstain from (masturbation)..."

I can totally understand that. However, all those words you list, with pornia being the most all-encompassing, all look to me like couple sex, not solo. That is why I do not believe M should be included in those terms. Fantasizing seems to take it out of the realm of purely a solo act, and thereby makes it a sinful act. However, that is still questionable.

If you are not convinced in your own mind that it is OK, then it cannot be done in faith and what ever is not in faith Paul calls sin.

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that M was God's "way of escape" for the singles to have a needed sexual release with out sinning. By casting such serious doubt on the activity, satan has rendered it sinful as well and by raising the age of marriage he has given to our believing young men and women a decade or more of frustration; with some leaving the faith over it, others committing suicide (see "A Gift for All Ages" by Penner) and most falling into fornication with someone. Of course some shut down and then find it nigh impossible to start back up again after marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

The logic is absurd. God does not provide 'escapes'.

That is unscriptural. Period.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (NASB) No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aner

Anst,

Thanks for sharing your experience - it sure seems like a lot of work and pain you are going through. I was puzzled why your statement above - why would masturbating be "debilitating"?

The distraction does not seem to be the act of masturbating - the distraction seems to be the way God made us - the filling of the prostate and the hormonal increase over a period of days (for an old guy like me - maybe hours for a teenager). Eventually the experience simply becomes painful no different than if I did not relieve my body of other waste created by natural functioning.

Thanks for your response and my best in wrestling with this issue.

Best,
Aner