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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 12:45:53 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
But, being single how on earth are you supposed to win this battle and stay chaste by avoiding masturbation completely if your body is going to basically work against you and demand a release that seems to only “feed the addiction”? You know?! So you're always going to end up experiencing orgasm spontaneously through "wet dreams" which will make you feel like you’re back at square one again not unlike a never-ending cycle. I know sometimes when you have a nocturnal emission the following morning you actually feel relieved and the urge is gone, but on some occasions the urge is only heightened.
I guess this is what Paul means when he says:
“But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin” (Romans 7:23-25). That is because you are making the up-front assumption that sexual release (at least for the single) is inherently sinful. It is not. God made you and me in such a way that the body produces semen and the only way it can be released is thru orgasm. (yeah - a small amount is absorbed back into the system) Since most reputable sex researchers claim that only 40% of men ever have wet dreams (which you also claim as sinful) that leaves 55% who have to M to get rid of the buildup. (the other 5% apparently have low enough Testosterone levels that the production rate is roughly equal to reabsorbtion and have little buildup)
But if you take it as part of the way you were made, there is not the problem. We have enough other sins in our lives, why add to them? IMO it is a nasty trick of the devil to get people so focused on ridding themselves of this or that imaginary sin and then bind them up with condemnation when God does not deliver them (and of course there are those people in that last 5% that seem to prove that we ALL should be just like them) we get so beat down we become ineffective in our christian walk.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/16/2009 3:50:10 AM
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Anst
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quote:
Since most reputable sex researchers claim that only 40% of men ever have wet dreams (which you also claim as sinful) . . .
Thanks for your helpful input DaveW.
Let me just clarify, however, if I could please I don't believe that nocturnal emissions or "wet dreams" are sinful and I just want to apologize if I gave that implication in my last post. It was not intended. And also what I meant when I said that it feels like I'm back at square one after experiencing a nocturnal emission is that while you're avoiding masturbating and you have a "wet dream" you sometimes feel the next day just like you do after a masturbation session when you know that you've got to resist temptation for another 2-3 weeks all over again before you get to the stage of equilibrium (I call it) when you're no longer focused on orgasm as much as you are in the first couple of weeks.
And I'm just trying to reconcile my own understanding of the Bible with Church teaching about masturbation and line it up with my own and other Christians experiences (including to some extent Christian womens' experiences too--as I've started reading the womens posts about the topic too).
What I am having a probem with is that I'm beginning to understand where other healthy, young unmarried Christian men are coming from in their own experiences with sex, orgasm, "wet dreams," masturbation, etc. and in the majority of cases I believe the latter commonly starts in the teens (although there are a few exceptions like my own as I personally did not start masturbating until I was in my mid-late 20s) when guys reach puberty or sexual maturity around 13 and start experiencing nocturnal emissions or "wet dreams." But, if we assume they believe masturbation is wrong and they stay 2, 4 or 6 months or more without masturbating and in that time only experience "wet dreams" then I'm afraid that in some cases the "wet dreams" are only going to act as an aid to masturbation as it may heighten the guy's urge or need to experience another orgasm. Not only that, but when one awakes with a strong erection ("morning wood") that in itself too can aid in a guy feeling the need to relieve himself through masturbation.
So every single Christian guy who has experienced a "wet dream" will more than likely masturbate at least once in his life due to the factors I listed above "wet dreams" and "morning wood."
So to conclude although I am not fully converted that masturbation is okay according to the Bible maybe it is a lesser "evil" that can be okay in the sense that it might help people avoid fornication, etc., especially when we consider what our modern era is plagued with in church and society. For instance, forced celibacy and historical condemnation of masturbation in the Catholic church and some Protestant churches as well has led to church abuse of children while in society not allowing mature minded young Christian men and women to marry has led to premarital sex, one-night stands, unwanted pregnancies, STDs, etc. Perhaps that's why Paul said that sex in marriage or the "marriage bed" is "honorable" and "undefiled" (Hebrews 13:4).
< Message edited by Anst -- 6/16/2009 4:00:47 AM >
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/16/2009 6:35:48 AM
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DaveW
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And please remember that during the lifetime of Jesus, Paul and whoever wrote Hebrews, (my vote is Apollos) the normal age to get married was about 14 or 15. "M" would not have been that much of an issue.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/16/2009 10:15:35 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
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I have just gone through the first 3 pages of this thread, and noticed a recurring theme. I don't know what the other 40 or so pages said, and if it continued on, but here is my problem.
Whether or not I see M as sinful, is it really possible to do without fantasizing about an actual woman. I kept reading some people saying that you imagine a fake woman in your head. I don't see how that is possible. When I fantasize, it is always about a real person. Whether it be an ex, a supermodel, a tv star, singer, or the hot girl I just passed on the street with the short shorts, belly shirt, low neck line and tan washboard abs. I can't just make up a woman in my head, if I did, she would look like a real woman.
All that being said, does this now go into the adultery of the heart situation?
Is it really possible to release the pressure without lusting after a real life woman, who may or may not be married, someone other than my wife if I am married, or if I am single is this all ok?
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/16/2009 10:25:38 AM
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DaveW
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I will pass on some advice from Paul Byerly, listowner of www.themarriagebed.com, a christian website that deals with matters of sexuality from a biblical viewpoint. (my paraphrase of his words)
Leave out the mental images. Just focus on the physical sensations. If that doesn't work, stop. Try again later. When you need the release bad enough, you will be able to do it without the fantasies.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/16/2009 10:40:20 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
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Good advice. For me, it seems impossible. I do understand your point of view. Especially as a single man, about to be 33, who was saved at 31 and had sexual relations, and irregular viewing of porn(which I still battle) in the past. All those images still flood my mind. It has hard to separate the 2.
But it does seem foolish to let myself burn with passion, but right now I have a problem seeing around the adultery of the heart issue.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2009 1:59:58 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
Is it really possible to release the pressure without lusting after a real life woman, who may or may not be married, someone other than my wife if I am married, or if I am single is this all ok?
This reminds me of Mark Driscoll's response to a question about M. Lusting is what makes it sinful. Basically, if you can M by thinking about tractors instead of women, then it's probably "okay." He then admits that, if that's the case, then you might have other issues to deal with. 
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2009 2:33:08 PM
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matcham
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I have had a bit of an about-turn in my attitude towards masturbation recently. Fundamentally I think that the issue is one of legalism. Let me explain with an example like tithing. I would find myself worrying about what the tithe actually entails, i.e. is God asking for a tithe of our gross or net profit? It is clear to me that when it comes to an issue of personal generosity gross and/or net is irrelevant, that is, your giving is either from a natural overflow of gratitude or it is a legalistic straining at gnats - which is exactly what discussions of net or gross actually are. The moment you find yourself entangled in such a debate in your head your giving is not about generosity, it is about performing the minimum legal requirement. Similarly I would find myself worrying about masturbation, not in the context of my relationship with Jesus but in what I could reasonably expect to get away with. It turns out that I was actually quite relaxed about what I could get away with: I dodged (or so I thought) Christ's command not to look lustfully after women in my heart by only lusting after the women my own imagination dreamt up - if they weren't real, I thought, then no one is offended. Trouble is, that too is legalism. It is running a relationship with Jesus that is all about ticking the right boxes and then patting myself on the back for my godly restraint.
My point is not to say that masturbation is always wrong (God help us if it is!), but that the important thing to bear in mind is our relationship with Jesus. Are we fooling ourselves by saying that masturbation is ok because we're doing it without lust (tick), or that its not ok and our resistance to it makes us better people (double tick). I would argue that the reason why the Bible doesn't give any absolutely clear hard and fast rule regarding masturbation, as it does in the case of murder or idolatry, is because it is a relational matter that God leaves up to us to decide.
For the record, I am married (not that that "cures" a desire for masturbation), and I still struggle in this area, mainly because my heart is unbelievably legalistic towards God. I hope that this helps someone...
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2009 5:35:10 PM
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RangerSGM
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I think I understand your thoughts about masterbation. I feel that it's normal and ok to endulge in with the right spiritual thoughts and attitude. I'm an older male and I view it as a means of release when necessary even though my spouse is somewhat disinterested most of the time. I too don't have a clear biblical understanding of how a man should treat this subject.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2009 5:27:02 PM
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RangerSGM
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To Saved By Grace:
I'm probably much older than you but I too battle the desire to view porn and to self indulge in masterbation. I'm a married older adult male but have lost most of my labito. When I do have the desire, it's not with my wife and I know this is wrong. Can you refer any biblical scripture about this subject. I appreciate anything you feel like you can share with me.
RangerSGM
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2009 10:22:20 PM
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Anst
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I agree with DaveW too since most of the times when I have indulged in masturbation the focus is on the physical sensations, i.e. orgasm and not on any sensual images. In my opinion this can lead to idolatry if not adultery (e.g. if the woman is married) since the focus is moved away from the immediate physical need to the creation of a psychic experience not unlike porn, which is in itself a form of psychic dislocation. For instance, this past week I heard of a debate over Calvin Klein’s recent ad campaign in which a young girl is lying on top of a guy on a couch, kissing another guy sitting next to them, while another guy lies on the floor. It has been criticized by various groups due to the sexual connotations embedded into it (i.e. basically it looks like an orgy) and what’s worse is that such ads (like porn) tend to groom both sexes to think of these kinds of situations as “normal” and “okay.” Of course, I have never had sex so thankfully I don’t have to contend in this regard like SavedByGraceMD. I think fighting off the sexual hunger or urge is tough enough without having mental flashes from a past sexual experience distracting me all the time and only adding fuel to the fire.
It probably should be said that when one has a “wet dream” (which is most times accompanied by mental images) the scenario, persons, etc. projected by our subconscious is pretty much beyond our control so you shouldn’t beat yourself up over that. Just forget about it and move on with your life. There have been a couple of times too when my “wet dreams” have involved some personally distasteful and immoral scenarios for me, but I consciously chose to ignore them because they were not good i.e. evil. Now we know that the devil can influence us via our subconscious minds so we must be wary to keep our hearts and minds pure, but it’s only when one chooses to indulge in or act on those fantasies our imagination stirs up by translating them into reality that sin can come about. Let me give an example. If I was neighbors with an attractive girl or perhaps I had sex years ago with an ex- girlfriend and suddenly out of nowhere I have a “wet dream” involving either girl. Do I ignore the dream or do I allow it to linger until it has cemented itself into my psyche (e.g. through consciously fantasizing about the dream, masturbating at the thought of this girl, etc.)? I wouldn’t hesitate to say that the latter is sin since you are either 1) committing fornication or 2) adultery (if she is engaged, married or with another guy) and just because it is in the mind makes no difference whatsoever. Thoughts always lead to actions and if you consciously think or fantasize about someone or something it is likely going to lead to a real act or tangible experience with hard and fast consequences (especially spiritual).
This is basically how porn works in my opinion since it creates a mental illusion of having sex without any negative effects (e.g. porn usually looks exciting and the people look like they’re having fun), but it is only afterwards that porn addicts “feel dirty” or “feel guilty”—note the mental association. Likewise if you masturbate to an image (i.e. an idol) be it porn or a celebrity like Britney Spears or the girl down the street or recall having sex with an ex it is sin since you are consciously acting out or simulating an act within a mental framework (i.e. with mental pictures)—that is to say if you were having sex with this person there and then on the spot in real life would it be a sin? It more than likely would fall in the category of fornication or adultery so why think or mentally visualize something that is not good? In my own experience I have felt that when I begin masturbating and stop after a few minutes I have started something or built something up inside of me that will not be relieved until I have fully reached orgasm so even though I might start and stop today, tomorrow I might go all the way. Hence, I personally feel that the best thing is not to touch yourself at all or put yourself in a situation where you know that you might “fall into temptation” like the old adage goes “idle hands are the devils toolshop.” Having said that, if the tension is too much to bear then as DaveW put it you really should be able to masturbate without any requirement for visual aids or stimulation.
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2009 4:15:24 PM
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serenitynow123
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Interesting how many pages this thread has become...this seems to be a never ending conversation :)
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2009 4:18:37 PM
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serenitynow123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RangerSGM
I think I understand your thoughts about masterbation. I feel that it's normal and ok to endulge in with the right spiritual thoughts and attitude. I'm an older male and I view it as a means of release when necessary even though my spouse is somewhat disinterested most of the time. I too don't have a clear biblical understanding of how a man should treat this subject.
Makes sense, if ones spouse has a headache every night.....I could see a reason. Depends on the situation I suppose. Perhaps think of your spouse while you're doing it ?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2009 8:31:30 PM
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sdodsworth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: matcham
I have had a bit of an about-turn in my attitude towards masturbation recently. Fundamentally I think that the issue is one of legalism. Let me explain with an example like tithing. I would find myself worrying about what the tithe actually entails, i.e. is God asking for a tithe of our gross or net profit? It is clear to me that when it comes to an issue of personal generosity gross and/or net is irrelevant, that is, your giving is either from a natural overflow of gratitude or it is a legalistic straining at gnats - which is exactly what discussions of net or gross actually are. The moment you find yourself entangled in such a debate in your head your giving is not about generosity, it is about performing the minimum legal requirement. Similarly I would find myself worrying about masturbation, not in the context of my relationship with Jesus but in what I could reasonably expect to get away with. It turns out that I was actually quite relaxed about what I could get away with: I dodged (or so I thought) Christ's command not to look lustfully after women in my heart by only lusting after the women my own imagination dreamt up - if they weren't real, I thought, then no one is offended. Trouble is, that too is legalism. It is running a relationship with Jesus that is all about ticking the right boxes and then patting myself on the back for my godly restraint.
My point is not to say that masturbation is always wrong (God help us if it is!), but that the important thing to bear in mind is our relationship with Jesus. Are we fooling ourselves by saying that masturbation is ok because we're doing it without lust (tick), or that its not ok and our resistance to it makes us better people (double tick). I would argue that the reason why the Bible doesn't give any absolutely clear hard and fast rule regarding masturbation, as it does in the case of murder or idolatry, is because it is a relational matter that God leaves up to us to decide.
For the record, I am married (not that that "cures" a desire for masturbation), and I still struggle in this area, mainly because my heart is unbelievably legalistic towards God. I hope that this helps someone...
I personally think matcham pointed out some good points. I think if your doing it just beacuse you think you can get away with it, like stealing even though you know its wrong but think no one will notice.. yeah maybe bad example.. but nevertheless kinda similar.
I dont think masterbation as a whole is totally condemed by God. But i think worship of self (and guys you know what i mean), or worship of other people (women) is NOT ok with God. If you masterbate instead of reading your bible for relief, or praying, or doing whatever..maybe then it becomes a problem. For me, I used to run to porn when i was mad, sad, stressed, bored, excited (not knowing how to channel that energy). I mean ive only been "clean" from porn for ugh.. a few weeks. And its HARD. SUPER HARD. Can i get an amen??!!
Simply being on the internet is a temptation to sin for the wrong reasons, i mean masterbate for the wrong reasons. I think just as anything else that isnt specfically mentioned BY SUBJECT NAME in the bible, is as matcham said, up to the person. But i also think God wants us to put him first. If masterbation helps relive stress that you believe can only be relieve thru those means, i guess do it.
but to be honest i have a super hard time doing it ONCE and not doing it the next night. i mean i guess because masterbation used to be hand in hand with porn for me before. but i guess once you get those images out of your head and stop imaging women while doing the act(thats not your wife),and just simply do it because of the physical relief it may give your body..but you dont stray from God or Jesus or daily bible reading, if it doesnt effect your wife, or future wife, or your family, or friends or self.. then masterbation isnt a sin. but once it starts to override any of these, i believe in my heart, that when it overrides these, it becomes priority and anything over God is sin. pray for me, ill pray for all of you men, young and old.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 9/9/2009 10:41:48 PM
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Anst
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I watched the other night a documentary titled Teens Hooked On Porn and I suggest anyone who might be suffering from porn addiction to check it out.
I found it very insightful especially in regards to the fact that it showed 3 English boys who are dealing with the effects of porn addiction. So even though you might feel like a failure and incapable of changing after looking at porn or masturbating, I came away from this doco feeling more positive to do something about it. And that you're not alone in the struggle against porn even though you might feel like it.
One was a Christian and was attempting to break the habit; another discovered after visiting a sex therapist that the problem stemmed from past experiences being bullied as a child; while the last guy, who was sexually active, looked upon his social habit as little more than harmless fun. What I found pretty interesting and could relate to was their descriptions of the habit. For instance, one guy said that when he was alone in his house he would be mentally distracted to hit the internet and browse for porn. He described it like a switch in his brain that he couldn't turn off. While another described the experience would make him feel good about himself as the images would typically show people smiling, laughing, looking like they're having fun, etc. But, his personal and social life were being adversely impacted upon by this habit.
In my own personal life I've been trying to find the root cause of my own habit. I'm pretty much disinterested in porn and so that's not a problem thankfully. But, with regard to masturbation I'm trying to find out what the psychological or environmental triggers might be (e.g. being "bored" and/or alone in the house with nothing to do; feeling lonely or inadequate in an aspect of your life [social, sexual, academic, work, spiritual, etc]; being aroused by sexualized images; feeling like your "missing out" on something good by not masturbating when "everybody's doing it"; etc.). So anyway I'm just trying to neutralize or remove those triggers one by one so I can hopefully overcome this habit.
An interesting thing I did re-learn the other day as well was that "it's all in the mind" in the sense that because you might have no jobs or friends or money or prospects etc. and this might be a source for feelings of discomfort, inadequacy, etc. and so you resort to masturbation or porn to quell those fears or stress that you really have to keep your focus (or mind) on the Lord Jesus Christ because our value (or worth) does not and never will stem from how much money we have in the bank, or the flashy cars we drive, or the "house in the Hamptons" we live in, or the goddess-like pin-up girl we sleep with, or the mega high roller of a job we work at, or the fancy designer labels we wear or that straight A's PhD title we put next to our name--our value is based solely on our relationship with God through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (see the parable of "Lazarus and the Rich Man" as an example: it is not the circumstances [good or bad] that we take with us when we die).
So ultimately it's not our abilities that define us, it's the choices we make. And choices can be either wise or poor (i.e. we can choose to eat junk food, watch mindless drivel under the guise of entertainment, smoke a cigarette, to lie to a loved one, etc.) but the difference is that buying junk food might be a poor choice, but lying (especially to oneself) is a character flaw and we need to choose to repent, ask for forgiveness and help, and change ourselves for the better.
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 9/13/2009 7:30:21 AM
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tylakeland
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I can see that you are seriously thinking about this. Well...you're not the only one...its hard when this can closely turn into something addictive. Lets keep praying and keep getting rid of things that are holding us in bondage. Whatever one may believe about this practice. I think we can all agree that self control is the best way to handle it, but its easier said than done. But its possible. (Especiallya in the morning, when morning glory is staring you in the face begging you for attention)
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 9/13/2009 7:33:53 AM
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tylakeland
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Anst...Hows your struggle been lately.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 9/18/2009 12:48:31 AM
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Anst
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tylakeland
Anst...Hows your struggle been lately.
To tell you the truth I’ve been struggling the past few weeks like something bad, but after watching the documentary Teens Hooked On Porn I’ve re-examined my habit and am feeling more positive about my approach to handling and, ultimately overcoming, this addiction. It’s been a long struggle, going something on 6-7 years now, with heaps of successes and heaps more failures e.g. one month I’ll do ok—no porn or touching myself—but the next I’ll touch myself or look at porn or both and the end result is I masturbate several times. So I'm thinking that my weakness tends to be those moments when I choose to relent, either in the morning when, as you said “morning glory” is staring you in the face or in the shower when you’re in nothing, but your “birthday suit” or at night when sometimes just can’t sleep. And yet, I recall a time in my life when those same moments, which I now find to be a source for temptation, I chose to do other things, when masturbation didn’t even figure into the equation e.g. ignoring the “morning wood” or if I was bored reading a book or finding some company or just simply praying etc. So I feel like I have to re-educate my brain just like you would your tastebuds when you know you have to eat your veggies, for instance, because they’re good for you even though your tastebuds would rather you eat that bucket of greasy, salty chips. And to be totally honest with you, I find that if I choose to touch myself just once it’s like I’ve already failed since I’ve ignited something within that demands to be released without relent. And by keeping this up, e.g. touching yourself every second day, it will inevitably lead to the point of no return, even if accidentally. I dunno, but after learning some positive truths about this addiction and the way it has embedded itself into my life I’m under no illusion that I’ll ever be cured of it. That doesn’t mean I’ve given up trying to resist the temptation and overcoming it. What it does mean, however, is that I understand there is a possibility--even probability--that I’ll be struggling with this addiction for the rest of my life, but I know that I’m not alone. And you know what, I’m ok with that, because I’m assured that my salvation lies in Jesus Christ, and nothing I do or don’t do can ever change that i.e. my relationship with Christ (and value thereof) is what is most important to me and needs to be my focus or main goal. Just like the apostle Paul, who struggled with “a thorn in the flesh” and pleaded with God to heal him (2 Corinthians 12:7-10), I guess, I have to come to a similar understanding, i.e. that God’s grace is sufficient for me too, since even he eventually reached “a point of acceptance, realizing that his problem would likely never leave him, but must learn to cope with it” (from http://www.ucg.org/un/un0908/such-were-some-of-you.htm). So I’m hoping whatever I do I’ll be able to maintain a right relationship with Christ Jesus and keep my addiction in check since I know now that my life’s goal isn’t material (to know or experience or possess all that I can), but spiritual (to do the right thing no matter how unpopular or uncomfortable it might be). And I know it might sound like a Hollywood cliché, but when you think about it, it does make sense i.e. that it’s our choices that truly define us and set us apart. I mean, look at Christ’s example: “who did no sin neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously” (1 Peter 2:22-23). Yet towards the end of his life, he saw what could only be described as the worst of human nature (e.g. enemies conspiring to murder him, friends betraying and deserting him, a sham trial, being publically beaten and finally executed). But, through it all he remained steadfast to God and his commandments, trusting in his will no matter how stressful, unpleasant, tiring, lonely or cold the circumstances. Wow! What strength of character he had! I mean it’s in the most challenging of times that we really discover what metal we’re made of don’t you reckon? So, my feeling is that our choices, in essence, do reflect the content of our character and I have to start making wiser choices. If I choose to masturbate I’m not only making a poor choice, in my opinion, like eating junk food habitually, but my character is being misshaped somewhat, and this, in turn, has the potential to lead to character flaws or immoral acts (i.e. like lying about my habit, buckling under peer pressure to have sex outside of marriage, etc). For instance, I know of one young guy who during the middle of the night couldn’t sleep and chose to go on the internet. His younger sister got up to get a cup of water and noticed the wireless was switched on in the kitchen. The following day she told her mom who asked the boy if it was true. He denied that he had been on the internet and accused his sister of imagining things. Then the dad who was woken by the commotion told his wife they could easily end the squabble by checking on his laptop to see when was the last time he logged on. The mom then re-asked him once again and he finally confessed that it was true. He was duly banned from going on the net for a month. The dad, later spoke to his son in private and told him that there was nothing wrong with using the internet so late at night if he couldn’t sleep. It probably wasn’t the wisest of things to do at that hour, but what was wrong was that he lied about it. And since all relationships (e.g. friends, family, etc) are based on trust and honesty if you undermine this moral foundation there is nothing left to build on or make it last. Hence, I’m just going to try my level best from now on to refocus my thoughts and acts by focusing less on my libido and more on my relationship with Jesus Christ no matter what trials he allows me to face in life. I hope this all makes sense. I guess, what it comes down to is that we’re all sin-addicts (and sin is, by nature, a choice e.g. remember the story of the tree of knowledge?) and so we need God’s cure for this through Jesus Christ. So here goes nothing...
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"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 7:55:41 AM
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serenitynow123
Posts: 82
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline
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I had browsed through this thread and read some pretty interesting feedback and information.
I would think the REAL struggle for some men here is the fact they've been abstinent but, had been routinely masterbating to the thoughts of their girlfriend or fiance'
For a while, I thought masturbation was okay, I mean, I wasn't having sexual relations before marriage, so thus I could fantasize instead about the woman I'm dating....I mean, we aren't having sex BEFORE marriage, right??
I figured as long as you did THAT, you're were in the clear, but obviously not. So there's no really getting out of it, unless you choose to live like a monk or something...if EVEN a monk.
In some cases, if you've been with a woman exclusively, but hadn't married her just yet (some say they should date a year before considering marriage, just to see how things go).
BUT, during that time....I'm sure the BETTER of the men even routinely fantasize sexually about their current interest or future wife, right?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 11/6/2009 10:29:18 PM
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Dan94
Posts: 29
Joined: 9/25/2008
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
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It has been over a year since I have posted anything in this thread or else where. I wonder if we were all seated around a large round table, if this issue would be discussed, instead of using the obscurity of the Internet. If there was a big round table and a place where we could all see each other face to face, I for one would not be there.
The reason is obvious, I would not be comfortable exploring this topic face to face with anyone. Perhaps it is left directly out of the Bible for a reason, as we all know God does not make mistakes. But wait...then why isn't this all too common issue directly addressed in the Bible? It must be a mistake a mistake of omission, so that God can zap us on the day of judgement, because we did not read the small print.
I for one could not assign myself to anyone, or commit to anyone to be their thought police, that job is assigned to ONE WHOSE SANDALS I AM UNWORTHY TO LOOSEN.
I am in my 50's now, and my memory of one of the first times I masturbated is recorded way back in post #955, so I will not re-write it now. Is it possible to M with the same innocence as I recorded back in that post? I think not, that would be equating myself to being 5 years old still. Does that mean I no longer have a weakness to this? by no means and it makes me feel less of a Christian every single time I give into that impulse. Like I'm no longer beloved of the Lord and He is ashamed of me for being so weak. It is obvious that the just say NO approach does not work for everyone. But why not? do we need to answer every animal impulse as if we have no control?
At issue is the pleasure we can get from M, just because it feels good. I for one (and God alone is my witness) want to harm no one or to fornicate with anyone (in thought) when I indulge in this activity. My thoughts do not center around the sexual intercourse activity. Does that make it right? Apparently not or I would not feel guilty. My only thought relief comes from knowing by faith that Jesus is continuing to make intercession for me on a daily basis. He knows me better then I know myself and how often I have prayed with all my might that this weakness might be taken from me. I have had a few months worth of victory and have even "fasted" from this activity for a time. Only God knows why He has not sent long time victory from this. Maybe, just maybe it is to keep me humble so I would not go out and beat brothers up with verses because I had been given this gift of strength over something that not everyone has. This keeps me compassionate towards others who may be fighting and losing this battle in the privacy of their minds. I long for and I am open to victory over this anytime He wants to bestow it on me, it is entirely frustrating trying to fight this battle on my own. I asking for prayer here in this forum, because I will not stand up in the middle of the congregation and say..ahem..excuse me but I was just wondering could all of you saints pray for me for..... Yeah, that's not going to happen..and not because of pride but because my personnel convictions is that such discussions do not belong in a church. Unless you consider this forum a type of church, but that is another topic altogether.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2009 3:16:57 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3803
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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Dan - does your feeling of guilt come from God, or the devil who will do anything and use everything, even good things, to drive a wedge between us and our Saviour?
Consider that satan may be dumping a guilty feeling (or perhaps re-intrepreting the empty feeling of sexuality without a partner into guilt) in order to make you feel like: "Like I'm no longer beloved of the Lord and He is ashamed of me for being so weak."
I would submit this is a lie from the pit of hell.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 11/19/2009 10:04:33 PM
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Dan94
Posts: 29
Joined: 9/25/2008
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
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Dave, I have tried to discover the source of my guilt, be it from God, Satan, or past history. To say with any certainty that it is from God (as some of this forum seem to suggest) does not fit within my understanding of the 3Rd Person of The Trinity, who I believe is the One responsible to bring scripture to life in order to convict us of sin. As the Comforter I believe He is to help us through and align our understanding to various scripture interpretations of His Word and His purpose is to glorify the Father through Jesus His Son. All the while keeping us united in one faith with love for one another. So can we be united in one faith with love for one another while discussing such a personal issue? Does He approve of bringing such matters into this cosmic realm of the Internet so that we may be comforted or dis-comforted as we seek answers from each other instead of Him?
When I jumped into this topic about a year ago, I had never even once discussed this with anyone, no not even my wife or a close friend, I never even joked about it, which seems to be common among some men. In fact I was surprised to find such a topic brought up among Christian men. Although I took some comfort in knowing I was not alone in my struggles, I never sought out justification among men for failing to beat this weakness. So that is where it stands with me, I lump it right in among other things that some condemn to be sin such as having an occasional beer, having a cigarette or not being in church every time the door is open. Some men just can not be satisfied with knowing that only God truly knows the heart and are quick to judge.
I have said before, that I could not sit across the table and speak face to face with anyone (yes that means clergy also) on this issue.That's just who I am, there are men of this forum (maybe most) who could and would not be the least uncomfortable. Maybe that is one of the reasons God led me to this network of believers, to help me discover something about myself or to read of another believers view, that may lead me to where He wants me to be. I strongly believe God can use any method that does not violate His goodness to get His point across. He knows I would never sit in a room with any of you, but He can use the obscurity of the Internet to make Himself heard. Yes I have read the various verses, people have offered up, but if the intent to defile or plan or to covet another mans wife or girlfriend is not there I do not see the sin in it as some do. Yet I still "feel" that to truly be used by God to my full potential that this habit is standing in the way..but then why doesn't He deliver me?...sigh!
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 11/20/2009 7:33:47 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3803
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
Yet I still "feel" that to truly be used by God to my full potential that this habit is standing in the way..but then why doesn't He deliver me?...sigh! Hmmmm. Sounds familiar. Didn't Paul say something to that effect in 1 Corinthians? God's reply: My grace is sufficient.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 11/20/2009 12:13:04 PM
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tylakeland
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline
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I kind of get what both sidees are talking about? I have question for both. How does one masturbate & not fantasize? What do you do to just enjoy it and not let your mind wander? And to the other side. Do you you think you will NEVER masturbate ever again? Really? Or is it that most guys just feel the need to cut it down?
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