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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
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[Poll]
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How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
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| Pre-Trib |
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| Post-trib |
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| Mid-trib |
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Total Votes : 173
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(last vote on : 11/18/2009 2:31:20 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 12/23/2008 7:03:36 PM
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FREELUTH
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I voted post trib, only becasue there was no vote for us amil folks.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 12/23/2008 7:19:06 PM
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bob97
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That's OK Freeluth we'll accept you there. 
Bob
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 12/24/2008 9:05:31 AM
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FREELUTH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
What if your wrong and therre is no Rapture or Seven Year Tribulation? What if your wrogn in what you think and beleive?
If I'm wrong it will never be an issue...I'll just wake up being with Christ.
If your wrong, you're in for a big surprise and a rather abrupt awaking.
Bob
If I am wrong and there is a pre mil rapture. I will not say "Put me down I am Amil." 
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My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 12/24/2008 11:18:10 AM
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bob97
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My thoughts exactly Free...if Christ comes for us before the trib I'll be over joyed but it's not something I expect to happen.
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/1/2009 5:17:30 PM
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Uriah
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1970rodney said:
"1st time I posted here but I know this much I would do everything I could to get my children outta harm's way. How much more does the Father love us? Yall can hang around if you want but I believe with all my heart I am outta here before the Tribulation period starts. Why would a God who loves us so much that He sent His Son to die for us allow us to experience that time? We are sealed till the day of redemption, I believe that's at rapture time and that's before the Tribulation."
Why did He allow so many other believers to suffer so much? You show you rely on human reasoning rather than scripture.
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Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/3/2009 11:32:38 AM
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Knicks15
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I always thought he was coming before the tribulation period but after reading part of this thread, it sounds like hes coming post trib, which is fine with me. Im just gonna keep my faith in Jesus and I know everything will be ok.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/3/2009 2:51:50 PM
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bob97
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Knicks...one thing about it...you won't be disappointed, you got all your bases covered.
Bob
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/11/2009 9:33:09 PM
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Prophetictime
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My position is Rapture at the 1st sickle just before the first bowl of God's wrath.
Excerpt:
Entire page click here
1 Cor 15:51-57
51 Lo ! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Commentary note on: 1 Cor 15: 51-52
In verse 51 and 52 above we see the words Mystery, Last Trump and the word raised. Paul obviously is talking about a resurrection of believers here, otherwise he would not have used the word RAISED in respect to the dead. He is also talking about the end of the church age. With those things in mind lets look at God’s Word some more.
Revelation 10:5-7
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And swore by him that lives for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be no more delay 7 But in the days of the trump of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets.
Commentary on Rev 10:7
Now here in Revelation 10 verse 7 we see the Word “Mystery” and the promise that when the seventh angel sounds his trumpet the Mystery of God would be fulfilled. We know the 7th angel in Revelation is the same one who blows the 7th trump. Here in Revelation 10:7 is only the promise, the angel is not sounding it here. Now lets look further into the Word of God.
Revelation 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God, 17 Saying, We give you thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which is, and was, and are to come; because you have taken to thee your great power, and has begun to reign. 18 And the nations were angry, and your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear your name, small and great; and that you should destroy them which destroy the earth.
Now in the scripture above we have the 7th Angel sounding his trumpet. Notice that it says in verse 18; “your wrath has come” speaking of God’s wrath and also “the time of the dead that they should be judged.” We know these are believers because it says the servants, the prophets and the saints. Also rewards are spoken about. You only give rewards to children in the kingdom. This is the resurrection Paul is talking about in 1st Corinthians. It occurs at the blowing of the Last trump, which is blown by the 7th angel. We also know these are believers in Jesus because the white thrown judgment resurrection for the rest of the dead, does not occur until Revelation 20.
One additional note on God’s wrath, notice from Revelation 11:15-18 above that until this scripture God’s wrath has not yet come. The time that it has come is announced in this scripture. All events that have occurred before this scripture are judgments and tribulations from God, but it is not his wrath. Let us continue with this scripture below.
Revelation 14:13-20
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yes, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them. 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, (Insert: Rapture starts here ) Thrust in your sickle, and reap: for the time is come for you to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
(Insert: God’s Wrath starts here after church is removed ) 17 and another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in your sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
First sickle is the Rapture of Christian believers, the 2nd sickle is God’s wrath
Now this is where Rapture actually takes place, Rev 14:14-16 is the Rapture. This is the 1st sickle where Jesus comes and takes his Church out of the world and out of his impending wrath. Notice the word Harvest is used, Jesus also uses the word Harvest when explaining the tares and the wheat in Matthew. Now the next sickle (2nd Sickle) starts in 14:17-20, this is a wrath sickle. The 1st sickle is a Harvest sickle (Rapture). Be sure not to confuse these two sickles. Once again the 1st sickle in Revelation 14:14-16 is the Rapture. The second sickle in Revelation 14:17-20 is a wrath sickle. The Bowl judgments begin right after this second sickle in chapter 14:17-20. As Jesus promised and Apostle Paul spoke, Jesus delivers us out of his wrath. Exactly as Paul was instructed and wrote to us by the power of the Holy Spirit.
End of excerpt
Entire page click here
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/14/2009 9:05:41 AM
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anointedrj
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As long as it's before Armageddon and my name is in THAT book, I'll be happy
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/17/2009 4:39:36 PM
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Uriah
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Let me know what you think about this:
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Looks to me like NOBODY will be there until the plagues are finished!
How can anyone get pre trib out of this?
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Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
See the text version at thereturnofthechrist.net
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/17/2009 7:19:39 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Uriah
Let me know what you think about this:
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Looks to me like NOBODY will be there until the plagues are finished!
How can anyone get pre trib out of this?
If you study the book of Revelation carefully, you can certainly get pre-trib out of this.
The Temple of God is in Heaven (Rev. 15:5) and the New Jerusalem is also in Heaven (Rev.21:10) but will eventually descend out of Heaven.
All the saints are in the New Jerusalem (Heb. 12:22-24) but the Temple is not in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:22), because there is no need for the Temple there -- God Himself and the Lamb are the Temple thereof.
Therefore, if no man can enter the heavenly Temple until the seven plagues are fulfilled, it does not mean that no man can enter the New Jerusalem for the same reason! Therefore, while these seven plagues are being fulfilled, the Church is already in the New Jerusalem, having been taken up at the Rapture.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/17/2009 9:17:49 PM
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Uriah
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Hi Ezra,
While that seems like a good answer, I just don't think it is supported scripcturally. In fact it may bring up another problem or two.
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Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
See the text version at thereturnofthechrist.net
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/18/2009 6:47:54 PM
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Asotos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
If "no one knows the day or hour" , wouldn't that seem to support pretribbers?
If the Antichrist shows up, they can count the days until mid trib. Once he shows his true colors, you know exactly how long until the Lord returns.
That assuming that the 7 years of tribulation are actuall 7 eartlhy years and not any other period. Pre trib is a dangerous teaching in my opinion, one of the many reasons is that:
[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/1992_Rapture.jpg[/image]
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/19/2009 1:29:40 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Uriah
Hi Ezra,
While that seems like a good answer, I just don't think it is supported scripcturally. In fact it may bring up another problem or two.
LOL...... I had pretty good answers too when I was a pre-tribber.
Here's another take I found snooping the net....
LINK
I thought bob might like it.
quote:
Many abuses have been and continue to be committed in the area of identifying current events with prophetic events. The greatest problem I have seen is the ignoring of critical details in order to force an event into a prophetic mold.
That was from his "Where are we now?" link
His Chart...................LINK
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/19/2009 2:47:08 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
That assuming that the 7 years of tribulation are actuall 7 eartlhy years and not any other period.
Since there are no "years" in Heaven, we have to believe (1) that they are "earthly" years, (2) they have 360 days per year (vs 365) and (3) that days and years are both used interchangeably when describing portions of this period to establish that these are literally years on earth.
quote:
Pre trib is a dangerous teaching in my opinion, one of the many reasons is that:
Unfortunately,your opinion seems to be based on propaganda rather that Scripture. There is nothing "dangerous" about pre-trib since it is the Christian's "blessed hope". However, it is definitely dangerous for those who reject the Gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ.
As to those who once believed in a pretribulational Rapture and now don't, it would appear that they have been wrongly influenced by those who oppose this teaching not because it is absent from Scripture, but because they wish to make Scripture say what they want it to say.
Just as Enoch was translated from earth to Heaven before the first global judgment, the Church will be translated before the final global judgment (which may not be too far away).
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/19/2009 2:53:28 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Uriah
Hi Ezra,
While that seems like a good answer, I just don't think it is supported scripcturally. In fact it may bring up another problem or two.
Since I provided the appropriate Scripture references, it would appear that you don't really want the Scriptural evidence, but simply support for your opinions. The "problem or two" that you anticipate don't really exist, but fire away.
The fact of the matter is that since we have received only glimpses of Heaven, and even Paul was forbidden to speak of the things which he saw in the third Heaven, it would be presumptuous to believe that we know all that there is to know.
One thing is clear however -- God Himself and Christ are "the Temple" of the New Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem is the eternal home of the saints.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/19/2009 4:32:58 PM
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Uriah
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Indeed, with only glimpses you have made a claim that I'm not sure is warranted.
Heb. 12:22-But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Are you asserting that this is where people go when they die or are raptured? Or When do they go into it?
The people seen before the throne of God are specifically noted as having come out of the great tribulation. (Rev. 7:9-17) Would there be another rapture and resurrection for them?
You also said, "God Himself and the Lamb are the Temple thereof." So, if nobody could enter the temple until the plagues are done, yet they are in the city where there is no temple, yet God is the temple...see the conundrum?
Why would it say these things if not for a specific TIME when they enter the city. As it shows a specific TIME when people must wait to enter the temple. An earlier chapter says He will make us pillars in the TEMPLE of God.
I think you may have mixed some symbolic language into the discussion of a clear scriptural timing issue.
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Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
See the text version at thereturnofthechrist.net
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/19/2009 7:02:41 PM
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Asotos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
Since there are no "years" in Heaven, we have to believe (1) that they are "earthly" years, (2) they have 360 days per year (vs 365) and (3) that days and years are both used interchangeably when describing portions of this period to establish that these are literally years on earth.
These are assumptions my friend that u make in order to suit your theory. A prophetic book is not always bound in our logic.
quote:
Unfortunately,your opinion seems to be based on propaganda rather that Scripture. There is nothing "dangerous" about pre-trib since it is the Christian's "blessed hope". However, it is definitely dangerous for those who reject the Gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ.
As to those who once believed in a pretribulational Rapture and now don't, it would appear that they have been wrongly influenced by those who oppose this teaching not because it is absent from Scripture, but because they wish to make Scripture say what they want it to say.
Just as Enoch was translated from earth to Heaven before the first global judgment, the Church will be translated before the final global judgment (which may not be too far away).
From one sentence I did write about pre-trib you reply like you know what I believe exactly, I see a lot of presumptions there. Anyway, For me Scripture is teaching post-trib rapture at the second coming of Christ. I am not here to propagandize my believes neither to try to change others believes, I have stop that kind of sport long time ago. But I have seen other fellow Christians here providing more than enough evidence that rapture and second coming happening at the same time which agrees with my believes and conviction.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/20/2009 12:15:45 PM
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Lapidoth
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Our study group each morning started the Book of Revelation this morning.
It took us two hours to do the first four verses.
Boy, was it good...............lol.
Don't go looking for the truth unless you really want it.
Otherwise, the old "doctrines of men" are good enough.
I have volumes on Revelation I have written myself.
I resisted the urge to drag them out this go round.
We're starting with new bibles with no marks in them. lol.
So we are starting with a new slate. No preconceived notions.
No rapture "theories" regardless which one is used.
The "blessed hope" is NOT the rapture.
That was the doctrine when I was AofG.
I searched all the scriptures about hope, blessed hope, etc.
Everyone is just a referral to Jesus Christ Himself.
The One who is my one and only hope. PTL.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/23/2009 12:50:36 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
The "blessed hope" is NOT the rapture.
The blessed hope is indeed the resurrection of the dead saints, the transformation of the living saints, and the glorification of all the saints at the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ. See Titus 2:13; Acts 24:15; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 4:13-18, 5:9; Heb. 9:28; 1 Jn. 3:2,3.
It is "Christ IN YOU" who is the hope of glory, but Christ Himself is not "a hope" -- He is a present possession and a present reality within each believer (1 Jn. 4:15; 5:11,12).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/24/2009 10:30:32 PM
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Uriah
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Not only that,
Rom 8:21--because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22--For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Rom 8:23--Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
The pre tribber finds himself in the unenviable position of having to explain why God who restores the creation that is awaiting the day of our bodies being redeemed, AS IN - THE RAPTURE / RESURRECTION ----- THEN after this day of restoration ----7 years of devastating it!!!!!!
Forget the taffy machine theory and ...........BELIEVE the scriptures!!!
_____________________________
Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
See the text version at thereturnofthechrist.net
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/24/2009 11:58:30 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
The pre tribber finds himself in the unenviable position of having to explain why God who restores the creation that is awaiting the day of our bodies being redeemed, AS IN - THE RAPTURE / RESURRECTION ----- THEN after this day of restoration ----7 years of devastating it!!!!!!
Obviously you have a minimal and skewed understanding of pretribulationism.
Scripture is very clear that the new heavens and the new earth are brought into exsitence after all the other events recorded in the book of Revelation. Therefore it is not imperative that the universe will be redeemed and restored directly after the Rapture. There are many other events that follow.
Also, the Day of the Lord is a period of darkness, judgment and wrath. One could provide numerous Scriptures to support that. Therefore the quotations shown above in Peter's post equating the day of the Lord with the time when the saints will be resurrection and glorified reveals a very poor understanding of Scripture.
Peter, you would be wise to study the Scriptures pertaining to the Day of the Lord, since it is the Day of Vengeance of our God.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/25/2009 1:00:19 PM
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Uriah
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So then, do you think that the adoption that Paul says we are waiting for and the redemption of out bodies that he connects to it, and the deliverance from the bondage of corruption he refers to in the same passage is NOT the rapture/resurection?
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Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
See the text version at thereturnofthechrist.net
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/25/2009 5:24:45 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Uriah
So then, do you think that the adoption that Paul says we are waiting for and the redemption of out bodies that he connects to it, and the deliverance from the bondage of corruption he refers to in the same passage is NOT the rapture/resurection?
The redemption of our bodies (Rom. 8:23) is indeed the resurrection and rapture of the saints. However, it does not follow that immediately thereafter the universe will be redeemed and restored.
We know that Christ will return to earth with His saints (Rev. 19:14), that there will be a Millenium (Rev. 20:2-5), that Satan will be released for a brief period to deceive the nations (Rev. 20:7,8), that Christ will destroy all the armies of Satan (Rev. 20:9), that Satan and all the unredeemed will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:10-15), and only then will the new heavens and the new earth be established (Rev. 21:1).
It is the new heavens and the new earth which will experience the liberty from the bondage of corruption (Rom. 8:19-22) because sin and the effects of sin upon the universe will have been eraditicated. Therefore there is no dissonance in believing that the resurrection and the rapture of the saints will ultimately result in the redemption of the universe, but not immeidately on the heels of it.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 1/25/2009 6:23:14 PM
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Uriah
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Wow,
A thousand years AFTER the redemption of our bodies is what Paul meant? Maybe him and Peter could have an argument.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Right before this he refers to the heavens"which are now" are reserved for fire. Here, he makes the claim that it happens on "The Day of the Lord" Notice he says the heavens will "pass away"!!! (at that time)
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Hmmm, Peter shows a new heavens and earth listed right after the current one is "dissolved"!!! This is definitely and directly related to what Paul speaks of.
_____________________________
Producer of the upcoming documentary video: The Return of the Christ
See the text version at thereturnofthechrist.net
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