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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/29/2007 10:21:22 PM
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GregandJenny
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
hey get lots of media attention and bring in large revenues for themselves. How much of this revenue goes they represent? Jesse and Al have gained power riding the coat tails of the civil rights movement. If racism no longer exists, they have to find another cause to feed their wallets and their ego's. great post Zamdad. :)
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The Will of God never takes you to where the Grace of God will not protect you
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2007 8:25:50 AM
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SonInMe1
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Can...liberalism have a strong foothold in minotity politics without the race card?
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2007 12:41:52 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Can...liberalism have a strong foothold in minotity politics without the race card? LOL. It doesn't matter if you play 5 card or 7 card poker. They only have TWO cards they think trump everything else. Fear, and Racism. (The racist card includes rich vs. poor, us vs. them, minority vs. majority, etc. )
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it? http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2007 2:02:31 PM
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AquaHarmony
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I guess I always wondered, why is most everything associated with the color black, negative? Black listed, black mailed, black balled, etc.? These are many questions my students often ask me. They have such young fresh minds, and are quite frank and pure about discussions on topics of racism. I notice how they interact with one another, and unless someone teaches them hatred, they don't have it. Usually, it's the little, yuck, a boy or the yuck a girl, which at their ages, they are going to do that. This is a good post, gives people the opportunity to express some of their feelings on racism, and the Bible. As far as the post where there was a black talk show being broadcasted, unless you are african american, you may not know what the feelings are that may be encountered, while in the work place, or just trying to get in. In our minds, we feel that the person who is qualified, does the best job, has the experience, etc, should be the one rewarded the job, but it has been proven, and there are documented examples where people were treated differently, due to their race. Mistrust, being tolerated only and being treated as invisible, by those who SAY they are saved and Christians, are encountered daily. Now, if you don't make it a practice to do these things, then quite obviously, you're no perpetrator. Sure, racism can fall amongst many genres, not just where african americans are involved.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2007 2:24:01 PM
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wunderschon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AquaHarmony I guess I always wondered, why is most everything associated with the color black, negative? Black listed, black mailed, black balled, etc.? These are many questions my students often ask me. They have such young fresh minds, and are quite frank and pure about discussions on topics of racism. I notice how they interact with one another, and unless someone teaches them hatred, they don't have it. Usually, it's the little, yuck, a boy or the yuck a girl, which at their ages, they are going to do that. Well speaking for myself, my first assumption wouldn't be that there's some lurking racism in the terms--I seem to recall that the term "black balling" comes from when the Roman Senators would vote on something, and they would use white balls for assent, and black balls for dissent. Nothing to do with race. If the "dark/light" associations must be construed as having to do with race, then the Bible is full of racism, as light is always a metaphor or attribute of holiness and goodness, and darkness is one of evil and wickedness. I really don't think that race plays a part in every little aspect of everything in life unless it suits one's motives to have it do so. Anymore than the Cross can be considered politically incorrect or a symbol of hate just because the Klan has burned them as a tactic of intimidation.
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For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2007 10:02:40 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
They have such young fresh minds, and are quite frank and pure about discussions on topics of racism. I notice how they interact with one another, and unless someone teaches them hatred, they don't have it. It's all in how we are raised and the examples we see during our processing period. We poor kids didn't know we were poor until someone called us poor and then treated us as "poor trash." We don't know there's a difference in black/white/yellow/brown skin because we're all just "kids". Not until mom or dad or the uncle starts with the hate racial stuff. We are "taught" these things. Now we send our kids to a government propaganda institution that teaches all things against Christ. School have our kids most of their life. We have moments because we are "busy" and if we go to church, they are exposed to whatever we give them for 30 minutes a week. Racism and everything else ungodly will be with us until Yeshua returns. I like what "Huckabee" said this week. We have to stop being and reacting horizontally and become vertically minded.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it? http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2007 11:17:02 AM
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wunderschon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: carlkeigley quote:
They have such young fresh minds, and are quite frank and pure about discussions on topics of racism. I notice how they interact with one another, and unless someone teaches them hatred, they don't have it. It's all in how we are raised and the examples we see during our processing period. We poor kids didn't know we were poor until someone called us poor and then treated us as "poor trash." We don't know there's a difference in black/white/yellow/brown skin because we're all just "kids". Not until mom or dad or the uncle starts with the hate racial stuff. We are "taught" these things. Now we send our kids to a government propaganda institution that teaches all things against Christ. School have our kids most of their life. We have moments because we are "busy" and if we go to church, they are exposed to whatever we give them for 30 minutes a week. Racism and everything else ungodly will be with us until Yeshua returns. I like what "Huckabee" said this week. We have to stop being and reacting horizontally and become vertically minded. quote:
CHANNELS That's what I had thought too, that racism was a learned condition, and that children are born without it, and acquire it by being taught. But I recently read of a study that showed that young children naturally react differently to to those who are different from themselves, their parents, and what they're accustomed to. Not with hatred, just differently. I didn't see the study myself, I just read about it. I'll do a search and see if I can find the study or the article with the conclusions from it.
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For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2007 12:07:29 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
That's what I had thought too, that racism was a learned condition, and that children are born without it, and acquire it by being taught. But I recently read of a study that showed that young children naturally react differently to to those who are different from themselves, their parents, and what they're accustomed to. Not with hatred, just differently. I didn't see the study myself, I just read about it. I'll do a search and see if I can find the study or the article with the conclusions from it. I'm not sure of any study's, but sems to me that researchers would still have to take into account that children learn attitudes, values and beliefs from their parents and that those factors are going to influence how they get along with kids who look differnt that themselves. I was out in California visiting with my mother in the early 90's. She was describing to me what she had witnessed in the field behind her house. Some construction was taking place and a large dirt hill had built up in the field. Some Hmong children began playing on the hill and digging tunnels. Some white kids came along and began playing with the Hmong kids. Pretty soon, the white kids were directing the Hmong kids what to do and how to do it. Some Hispanic kids showed up and they destroyed the tunnels. Pretty soon, no one was playing on the hill. I use this illustration not to demonstrate that one racce is better or worse than another, but to emphasize that each of thise kids had to learn their behaviors from somewhere. Behavior comes from thoughts. Thoughts come from attitudes, beliefs and values. If the messages kids are getting is to distrust other races, they are going to go out and act out those values. If they are being taught to respect others, they are going to act out those values. Another example is from my teenage years in California. I was skateborder and our town had an empty swimming pool in an open field near an apartment complex. For several years we, my skateboarding buddies and I, hung out at this pool to ride our boards in it. One day we arrived to find that the pool had been spray painted with grafitti and that there was broken glass all over the bottom of the pool. We cleaned the glass out and began riding the pool. Soon after we cleaned up and started doing what we'd been doing for years, some Hispanic gang bangers showed up and told us we didn't belong there, this was their turf. They wanted to fight. We never gave into their wish to fight. We spoke with them and were able to convince them that there were going to be no problems if we used the pool to skate and they just hung out. We, each side of the struggle, had to overcome some of our attitudes, values and beliefs to come together and agree not to fight with each other.
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You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man. Me
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2007 10:43:26 PM
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lexie
Posts: 3059
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From: Toronto
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quote:
That's what I had thought too, that racism was a learned condition, and that children are born without it, and acquire it by being taught. But I recently read of a study that showed that young children naturally react differently to to those who are different from themselves, their parents, and what they're accustomed to. That would be an interesting study to read. One of my best friends since Kindergarten is a different race and religion from me. Honestly, I personally didn't even realize this difference until we were about 12. Seriously. I didn't know that we were different because of our skin colour so I didn't react differently to her. Race is such an interesting thing with kids. The other day my 8 year old niece asked me why my daughter and I have different skin colours. My 7 year old nephew asked the same thing. I said "your uncle is black and I'm white so that makes her..." They had no clue what to say. Their 10 year old brother answered "mixed." Then the 7 year old stated that the 10 year old is mixed, because he has lighter skin than the rest of the siblings.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2007 12:09:25 AM
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wunderschon
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Zamdad, I can't find the study, but here's an article with references to it--- http://www.tes.co.uk/search/story/?story_id=2360935
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For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2007 1:00:06 AM
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zamdad
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Thanks for the link. This time, I decided to take the time and read the study. quote:
Create a "jigsaw classroom". This effective technique for combating racism involves making children in racially diverse groups mutually dependent on every group member for the achievement of shared goals. In short, it turns "them" into "us" I think this has been going on since I was a kid. I look back at my skateboarding example and think that we did what we had to do to keep skating in our pool. We saw that we had turn the us vs. them mentality into a collaborative effort. After years of living in Alaska I see that races come together and realize that, in order to make things work efficiently, color barriers have to be broken to accomplish shared goals. It seems the only time race becomes an issue is when someone, or a group of people, get caught doing something illegal, immoral, or inappropriate. Then, the only way we learn about it is when they get media attention and, eventually, the attention of people like Jesse J and Al S.
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You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man. Me
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/4/2007 6:34:38 PM
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Matt Smith
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From: Austin, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny quote:
ersonally, if I see a group of young Black guys acting macho, vs. young White guys acting macho, my first instinct would be to feel more threatened by the Black guys. Why is that though?? I think a couple reasons. For one, this is not something new. Black men have been stereotyped as violent for a couple centuries in the US. I think it's hard or impossible to grow up around those memes without internalizing them. By now, I've internalized them strongly, and now I have to work hard to unlearn them. Is anyone else here aware that you've been affected by stereotypes? Maybe it's also related to what people have been discussing -- that people feel closer to others like them, and are very aware of differences. I think the commandment to "Love one's neighbor as oneself" is the challenge to see past our differences, and not let them divide us. And it is a challenge -- because our nature is to group with others like us. Matt
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/5/2007 12:35:07 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
Black men have been stereotyped as violent for a couple centuries in the US. I think it's hard or impossible to grow up around those memes without internalizing them. Why? I grew up with those messages, yet I have many friends of different races. I have to face dangerous people everyday as part of my profession. Stereotypes are something we can get past. quote:
I think the commandment to "Love one's neighbor as oneself" is the challenge to see past our differences, and not let them divide us. And it is a challenge -- because our nature is to group with others like us. Yet, like I was taught in the Army, everyone is green. When I meet people I am able to see past skin color and look for character. I've met more people who are more like me than not. I know there are others that exist, but it's no longer the norm unless your talking about prison.
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You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man. Me
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/7/2007 12:59:25 AM
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WhiteWindWarrior
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From: The cold North side of the Mountain
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad Yet, like I was taught in the Army, everyone is green. When I meet people I am able to see past skin color and look for character. I've met more people who are more like me than not. I know there are others that exist, but it's no longer the norm unless your talking about prison. Spending nearly 5 years now in prison ministry in the state prison system (medium & maximum facilities), I can assure you the main element of interest for these men behind bars is "respect" and not race! That goes for Christians as much as those of other faith walks or lack of. And BTW yes, there are Christians behind bars, loads of them! It blew my mind when I first got involved in prison ministry that there were so many doing time, black, white, asian, spanish, chinese, jews... you name it they're all there and from all walks of life. Professionals, white collar types, mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, teachers, priests, pastors, pilots, computer techs, truck drivers, business owners, bankers, military, sales people, church leaders, married, divorced, single...the list goes on and on. Of course there are some crazies in there to, but I'm not talking about them (at least for now). How come some Christians end up in prison? Mostly because they didn't keep their eye on the ball, not listening to the Father, and making some bad choices... the same choices many of us could easily make on the "outside" and perhaps some of us have. The difference? They got caught. The interesting thing is, outside of a profession of faith these men will in fact gravitate towards race, ethnicity, and/or a very complex prison social structure. Most, not all, Christians inside prison mix pretty well along faith lines but there is still a fair amount of division along theological lines and religious lines to, very much the same as on the outside. Among these men I feel very safe and skin color has nothing to do with it since we are a pretty mixed group. Saturday morning time at the state prison for me is a highlight in my week, worship, prayer, praise, sharing and song. Boy, can these guys sing! The time at worship matches anything I have seen and done on the outside and I've been to a lot of churches in a lot of places. Behind these menacing walls and razor wire it's easy to find Christ in these men. The reason is we have a common ground...Christ Jesus and we strive to love our fellow man. That's a tall order, loving God AND our fellow man. If you can get these two nailed down you can take a rest. These men could teach some of us a few things about that and I don't mean theological fine points either.
< Message edited by WhiteWindWarrior -- 12/7/2007 1:07:24 AM >
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"...I was in prison, and you came to Me." (Jesus) Mat 25:36b "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the Day of Christ Jesus." Phil 1:6 ~ A fellow brother and servant in Christ Jesus ~
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/7/2007 1:38:42 AM
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Matt Smith
Posts: 92
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Austin, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad quote:
Black men have been stereotyped as violent for a couple centuries in the US. I think it's hard or impossible to grow up around those memes without internalizing them. Why? I grew up with those messages, yet I have many friends of different races. I have to face dangerous people everyday as part of my profession. Stereotypes are something we can get past. Does having friends of different races mean you're free from the influence of racist messages? I don't think so. I'm worried about how I've been influenced, even though I've got close friends (and a partner) of different races. I think the influences can be subtle, unconscious, and hard to pin down. I mean, anyone in marketing could tell us that much. I expect I'll always need to be vigilant about what messages I'm getting, and how they may be influencing me. I've heard that about the army, that everyone's green. I always liked that idea. Matt
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/7/2007 2:51:00 AM
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GregandJenny
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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Matt, What are you talking about. Some of your posts are so vague they don't make any sense to me. For instance the last one, talking about messages influencing you and how subtle they are. What do you mean? What racist messages are you talking about. Please stop being so vague, and give clear cut examples. gh
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The Will of God never takes you to where the Grace of God will not protect you
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/7/2007 4:19:52 PM
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lexie
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From: Toronto
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But if we have friends and partners of different races, shouldn't we be able to fend off even the most subtle influences of racist messages? Or are our friends and partners just the "ok" ones of those groups, and therefore we are still susceptible to the influences of racist messages? Just a thought to throw out, not at anyone in particular, but for when we look at the world around us. How many people really, can't say that they don't have any friends or even acquaintances of a different race. Even my 96 year old grandmother who lived in an entirely white town for 96 years was very warm and welcoming to my black husband. And to think that the only ideas she had of people of other races came from what she saw in the media. As for being scared of someone of a different race, I'm interested to find statistics (if anyone knows where I can find them) of crimes based on race (eg. black on black crime vs. black on white crime). Where I live, there is a lot of violence within the black community. But it is contained within the black community. I lived in one of those communities and never felt unsafe because of the colour of my skin. The violence and crime was contained amongst groups of people seeking out specific people they were commiting crimes against (not by race but by "issues with that person"). Aren't we more likely to have a crime committed against us by someone of our own race than we are someone of another race?
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/8/2007 12:20:04 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1052
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteWindWarrior quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad Yet, like I was taught in the Army, everyone is green. When I meet people I am able to see past skin color and look for character. I've met more people who are more like me than not. I know there are others that exist, but it's no longer the norm unless your talking about prison. Spending nearly 5 years now in prison ministry in the state prison system (medium & maximum facilities), I can assure you the main element of interest for these men behind bars is "respect" and not race! That goes for Christians as much as those of other faith walks or lack of. And BTW yes, there are Christians behind bars, loads of them! It blew my mind when I first got involved in prison ministry that there were so many doing time, black, white, asian, spanish, chinese, jews... you name it they're all there and from all walks of life. Professionals, white collar types, mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, teachers, priests, pastors, pilots, computer techs, truck drivers, business owners, bankers, military, sales people, church leaders, married, divorced, single...the list goes on and on. Of course there are some crazies in there to, but I'm not talking about them (at least for now). How come some Christians end up in prison? Mostly because they didn't keep their eye on the ball, not listening to the Father, and making some bad choices... the same choices many of us could easily make on the "outside" and perhaps some of us have. The difference? They got caught. The interesting thing is, outside of a profession of faith these men will in fact gravitate towards race, ethnicity, and/or a very complex prison social structure. Most, not all, Christians inside prison mix pretty well along faith lines but there is still a fair amount of division along theological lines and religious lines to, very much the same as on the outside. Among these men I feel very safe and skin color has nothing to do with it since we are a pretty mixed group. Saturday morning time at the state prison for me is a highlight in my week, worship, prayer, praise, sharing and song. Boy, can these guys sing! The time at worship matches anything I have seen and done on the outside and I've been to a lot of churches in a lot of places. Behind these menacing walls and razor wire it's easy to find Christ in these men. The reason is we have a common ground...Christ Jesus and we strive to love our fellow man. That's a tall order, loving God AND our fellow man. If you can get these two nailed down you can take a rest. These men could teach some of us a few things about that and I don't mean theological fine points either. Whitewindwarrior, as you know from another discussion in another thread, I have tremendous respect for the work you do in prison ministry. I know how men (and women) of differnt ethnic backgrounds can come together "behind the walls" and worship. I've seen it in the facilities I've worked in. I would not do anything to discourage you from the work you do. However, what you don't see is the interaction that occurs with these same people the rest of the time. As someone who has worked "behind the walls" morning, day and night, most of these men have difficulty living out their faith in general population. It's not a whole lot different than the regualr world. We see all sorts of Sunday Chrisitians. When chapel comes, masks are removed and the men get a chance to open up. But, as soon as they return to the unit, survival instincts take over and the masks go back on. As I stated in a previous post, prison is the most truely racist place I have ever seen. No matter what administration does to try and integrate offenders, they will play the game, work along side one another, eat with one another, do the things they are made to do. But, when it comes to establishing an identity, it primarily tends to be by race first. I also have to agree with you that respect is a big thing in the prison culture. But, respect has to be earned there. Often that respect is earned through violence. Because gangs tend to control how respect is achieved, race is the first factor in determing where one belongs. And, by the way, those who live out their lives for Christ behind the walls are the happiest, most content inmates there. They stand up and stand out for him and personify Him in everything they do. Keep up the good work warrior.
< Message edited by zamdad -- 12/8/2007 12:26:51 PM >
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You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man. Me
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/8/2007 12:58:12 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5059
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matt Smith I think a couple reasons. For one, this is not something new. Black men have been stereotyped as violent for a couple centuries in the US. I think it's hard or impossible to grow up around those memes without internalizing them. For the sake of discussion, do you think the "Stereotype" might come from the fact that black's are seven (7) times more likely to commit a homocide than whites.(based on homocides committed per 100,000 population). See the Bureau of Statiscts HERE. Don't those statistics sorta make it not a stereotype, but a factual observation. Thanks RC
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/8/2007 1:51:57 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1052
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames quote:
ORIGINAL: Matt Smith I think a couple reasons. For one, this is not something new. Black men have been stereotyped as violent for a couple centuries in the US. I think it's hard or impossible to grow up around those memes without internalizing them. For the sake of discussion, do you think the "Stereotype" might come from the fact that black's are seven (7) times more likely to commit a homocide than whites.(based on homocides committed per 100,000 population). See the Bureau of Statiscts HERE. Don't those statistics sorta make it not a stereotype, but a factual observation. Thanks RC Good point, RC. I know the media can take statistics and form our perception to believe that we are racist because we incarcerate more blacks than whites. But, if more balcks than white are being arrested and prosecuted, it is behavior that causes the crime to happen, not pigmentation. There are a number of reasons for the problems experienced in the black community. Bill Cosby and some other black leaders have spoken on the topic and have been largely dismissed or ignored. It seems like the only black leaders the media pays attention to are those like Jesse and Al. No ethnic group is immune from problems. But, the answer lies in the mirror, not with some mythical, racist entity.
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You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man. Me
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 12/8/2007 7:47:22 PM
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Acts29
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames quote:
ORIGINAL: Matt Smith I think a couple reasons. For one, this is not something new. Black men have been stereotyped as violent for a couple centuries in the US. I think it's hard or impossible to grow up around those memes without internalizing them. For the sake of discussion, do you think the "Stereotype" might come from the fact that black's are seven (7) times more likely to commit a homocide than whites.(based on homocides committed per 100,000 population). See the Bureau of Statiscts HERE. Don't those statistics sorta make it not a stereotype, but a factual observation. Thanks RC Good point, RC. I know the media can take statistics and form our perception to believe that we are racist because we incarcerate more blacks than whites. But, if more balcks than white are being arrested and prosecuted, it is behavior that causes the crime to happen, not pigmentation. There are a number of reasons for the problems experienced in the black community. Bill Cosby and some other black leaders have spoken on the topic and have been largely dismissed or ignored. It seems like the only black leaders the media pays attention to are those like Jesse and Al. No ethnic group is immune from problems. But, the answer lies in the mirror, not with some mythical, racist entity. I have heard Bill Cosby speak regarding the situation within the black community. Basically he is telling the black community to become self supportive rather than a victim who is helpless. One example he gave regarded parenting. The young mothers needed parenting programs. Cosby told them you do not need the government to teach how to be a parent you need to ask your grandmother how to parent. He pointed out that for generations the grandparents played an important supportive role in rearing grandchildren. The key is that they supported the parents in their ability to parent. Now a days the grandparents are the parents and the parents need to go to class to learn how to parent. (I hope you can read it with a Cosby slant to it.) ALSO he pointed out that most of the crimes committed by blacks and whites were against people they knew or family members. But in the black community more homocides were committed against strangers than within the white community. I am sure Cosby knows this too well since his son was murdered by a black stranger. Instead of Cosby getting angry and blaming society. He is out there trying to empower people rather than depower them.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin | | | | |