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RE: re - 9/13/2009 4:08:35 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
True. It really is just like any other difference, such as hair color and eye color. It seems strange to me that people make boundaries based off skin color, but not off any other variation in people. People have different color eyes, skin, hair, etc. But the one that gets people is skin color usually. <shrugs>
A separatist does not base thier position on skin color, but on the race; White, Black, Oriential.
Why do folks always try to make it about racism; when it is not?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 4:20:56 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
A separatist does not base thier position on skin color, but on the race; White, Black, Oriential.
And is their racial theory based on the Bible, or on evolutionist's or eugenicists?
Can they show where the Bible defines the races as White, Black, and Oriental, and further show where after defining the races God said to keep them separate?
What do they do with populations who are "in between". Many people in Persian nations and parts of the far East look downright Asian, while others are more Caucasian looking, some even with red hair. How would a separatist categorize which of those people should marry who? Are Native Americans Oriental by race? If not, are they their own race? What of North Africans who consider themselves more Arab (and look more Middle Eastern) than those in the South? Would an Arab North African marrying a black South African be race mixing?
< Message edited by 3cappuccinosmom -- 9/13/2009 4:41:09 PM >
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The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 4:31:12 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
True. It really is just like any other difference, such as hair color and eye color. It seems strange to me that people make boundaries based off skin color, but not off any other variation in people. People have different color eyes, skin, hair, etc. But the one that gets people is skin color usually. <shrugs>
A separatist does not base thier position on skin color, but on the race; White, Black, Oriential.
Why do folks always try to make it about racism; when it is not?
Thanks
RC
So some of Adam's offspring should not marry others of Adam's offspring because they are somehow a different race? Where does the Bible teach that?
We don't "try to make it about racism." It is about racism!
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 6:16:52 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
So some of Adam's offspring should not marry others of Adam's offspring because they are somehow a different race? Where does the Bible teach that?
We don't "try to make it about racism." It is about racism!
I did not say the Bible taught that; I only said that many separatist believe that the Bible teaches that.
I said I feel it is wrong to automatically classify a separatist as a racist; for such is just not the case.
To be a racist, one must think that races other than their own are inferior, or that their own race is superior; this is not the thinking of a separatist. That is the thinking of a racist.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 6:20:19 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
What do they do with populations who are "in between". Many people in Persian nations and parts of the far East look downright Asian, while others are more Caucasian looking, some even with red hair. How would a separatist categorize which of those people should marry who? Are Native Americans Oriental by race? If not, are they their own race? What of North Africans who consider themselves more Arab (and look more Middle Eastern) than those in the South? Would an Arab North African marrying a black South African be race mixing?
It would seem that what a separatist is trying to avoind by opposing mixed marriage is the kind of mix-match that you post.
Separatist are not rasist, only want each race to remain true to thier kind, and not become a blend of mix-matched races, with no heritage, no history, and no individual idenity.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 7:24:36 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
It would seem that what a separatist is trying to avoind by opposing mixed marriage is the kind of mix-match that you post.
To what end, and on what Biblical principal?
quote:
Separatist are not rasist, only want each race to remain true to thier kind, and not become a blend of mix-matched races, with no heritage, no history, and no individual idenity.
So their opinion that mixed folk have no heritage takes precedence over anyone else's? What do they care? What if mixed folks *like* their two-fold (or more) culture and heritage? My mixed kids have a doubly rich heritage, not none.  And individual identity? In our family, our identity is in Christ first. Culture is secondary, and certainly from an eterna perspective of little importance.
If someone wants to hold that opinion and do the "racial purity" thing, fine. Perhaps others will look down their noses at the purists as stagnant and stultified, while they're looking down their noses at "muddied" people with "no heritage". 
But I want to know how this applies to *Christians* from a Biblical standpoint. I'd spring for a Biblical principle if they have one, even if there's no specific chapter and verse. Human beings of all races are still human beings (or do seperatists deny that?). So no matter what their "race" may be, however it may be defined, if a human being marries another human being, they are reproducing after their kind.
Being afraid of the whole world becoming monochromatic is silly. The cultures I mentioned are actually great examples of the opposite. In spite of "mixing", there is still a huge variety of external and physical diversity, and plenty of rich culture. Not to mention that some folks will just by nature of things marry people who look like them, and some mixed will marry "back into" one of their parents races, producing children and a heritage which are essentially from that one parent's culture.
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The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 9:09:56 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
One that I have heard is that if God made the race separate, then we should not go against his will and blend them.
But those same people would have to object to inter-racial neighborhoods and inter-racial churches. I don't remember any commands about different races that applies solely to marriage.
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-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 9:41:31 PM
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John_O
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I am a racist. And I am proud of it. Of course there is only one race. Human.
Seeing as all the various skin tones can easily interbreed we are all one race. Doesn't really matter what color someone is. But it does matter what values they adhere to.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 10:01:57 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I am a racist. And I am proud of it. Of course there is only one race. Human.
Llamas are people too. : (
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: re - 9/13/2009 10:03:03 PM
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agapist
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What an odd thread. The comments are both bizarre and lovely.
It is amazing to see the tricks the mind can play on some people, with its ability to classify and categorize, put contradictory or absurd views and beliefs in pigeon-holes to maintain a false integrity--and avoid change or escape accountability. It is a form of self-delusion present, to some degree, in each of us.
There is a story about two youngs boys stealing bread in Nazi Germany. They were sent to prison and this presented a moral dilemma for the commandant: it was a men's prison with no place to keep the children separate. The commandant thought this presented too great a temptation to the adult prisoners...so he hung the children.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 4:04:17 AM
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apologist1948
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
What do they do with populations who are "in between". Many people in Persian nations and parts of the far East look downright Asian, while others are more Caucasian looking, some even with red hair. How would a separatist categorize which of those people should marry who? Are Native Americans Oriental by race? If not, are they their own race? What of North Africans who consider themselves more Arab (and look more Middle Eastern) than those in the South? Would an Arab North African marrying a black South African be race mixing?
It would seem that what a separatist is trying to avoind by opposing mixed marriage is the kind of mix-match that you post.
Separatist are not rasist, only want each race to remain true to thier kind, and not become a blend of mix-matched races, with no heritage, no history, and no individual idenity.
Thanks
RC
Too late for that. We are all a mixture of races. None of us have the same, exact same genetic make-up as did Adam.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 4:14:25 AM
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apologist1948
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
One that I have heard is that if God made the race separate, then we should not go against his will and blend them.
Thanks
RC
Then, based on that logic we should never try to learn other languages because God confused the tongues of those trying to build the tower of Babel.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 10:49:52 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: apologist1948
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
One that I have heard is that if God made the race separate, then we should not go against his will and blend them.
Thanks
RC
Then, based on that logic we should never try to learn other languages because God confused the tongues of those trying to build the tower of Babel.
I am just the messenger here, and only trying to make the point that being a separatist does not make one racist; only a separatist.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 11:09:03 AM
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dnp200450
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
How dark does one have to be, exactly, to make it miscegenation? Would it be less bad for these "seperatists" to marry a light skinned African than a dark skinned one (there are some *very* light skinned Africans)? Do they consider it a sin for an African to marry an Asian or an Arab, or is it only bad if white people start mixing it up?
You try to bring separatism back to race (skin color, and picking on a particular race) and the folks that I know who are separationis would reject a Light skinned African because they are African and a product of intermarriage (or at least inter-racial sex) to become light skinned (Excepting alinoism, etc.).
Separaratism does not demean or trash, nor uplift any race above another; only recognizes that they are different because of the race; and wishes to keep it that way.
Thanks
RC
The problem with separatists is they frequently view racse as overly large homogeneous groups. They will use the term "white race" or "black race". But there is really no such thing. A Kenyan and a Senegalese maybe actually more genetically different that a Irishman and a Dane. Since separatist base their race identification/separation criteria based on skin color they start off with an inherently flawed premise.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 11:21:11 AM
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solo_soprano23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
True. It really is just like any other difference, such as hair color and eye color. It seems strange to me that people make boundaries based off skin color, but not off any other variation in people. People have different color eyes, skin, hair, etc. But the one that gets people is skin color usually. <shrugs>
A separatist does not base thier position on skin color, but on the race; White, Black, Oriential.
Why do folks always try to make it about racism; when it is not?
Thanks
RC
Separatism looks just like racism to me. That's probably why. Things like skin color are just like eye color. No one says that the blue eyeds can't marry the brown eyeds. It just gets that way about the trait of the color of your epidermis. It's not even cultural, which I could understand more... it's just about colors.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 11:49:28 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6728
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
Separatism looks just like racism to me. That's probably why. Things like skin color are just like eye color. No one says that the blue eyeds can't marry the brown eyeds. It just gets that way about the trait of the color of your epidermis. It's not even cultural, which I could understand more... it's just about colors.
Even if it was just about colors, that does not make it racist. Racism by definition is the hatred of another race than one's own, and feeling that one's own race is superior.
Separatism does not demean, nor feel superior; only believes in separatism.
And separatism is not limited to whites, many of all races feel the same way without feeling hatred. Separatism many times goes beyond color and can be based on relogion and many other facets.
Is a Muslim a racist if they want thier children to marry only anoter Muslin, how about a Jew, etc?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 12:42:07 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
Since separatist base their race identification/separation criteria based on skin color they start off with an inherently flawed premise.
It may just be based on a flawed premise, but separatism ain't racism.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 12:51:53 PM
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dnp200450
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
Since separatist base their race identification/separation criteria based on skin color they start off with an inherently flawed premise.
It may just be based on a flawed premise, but separatism ain't racism.
Thanks
RC
In a practical and legal sense it is. Just look at International, Federal, State and Local laws. "Separate but equal" has been determined to mean separate but unequal.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 1:04:56 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dnp200450
In a practical and legal sense it is. Just look at International, Federal, State and Local laws. "Separate but equal" has been determined to mean separate but unequal.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but separatism does not meet the definition of racism; so separatism is not racism.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 1:08:16 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: dnp200450
In a practical and legal sense it is. Just look at International, Federal, State and Local laws. "Separate but equal" has been determined to mean separate but unequal.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but separatism does not meet the definition of racism; so separatism is not racism.
Thanks
RC
The only reason for separatism is an underlying racism. The definition for separatism may be different, but the motive wouldn't be.
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 1:16:14 PM
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dnp200450
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: dnp200450
In a practical and legal sense it is. Just look at International, Federal, State and Local laws. "Separate but equal" has been determined to mean separate but unequal.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but separatism does not meet the definition of racism; so separatism is not racism.
Thanks
RC
The only reason for separatism is an underlying racism. The definition for separatism may be different, but the motive wouldn't be.
It is not my opinion that counts here. It is International, Federal and State laws that are at issue. Plus in the legal sense how would you exactly define the criteria for the separation? Would it be through a DNA test? If so what markers could you use. It is not even practical.
< Message edited by dnp200450 -- 9/14/2009 1:23:13 PM >
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RE: re - 9/14/2009 1:29:52 PM
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solo_soprano23
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Hmm.... race is a social construct more than anything. You can't tell race from DNA, but you might could tell ancestry, if anything like that.
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