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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 4:38:09 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
American society has made victim status profitable.
...it's almost like the blacks are oppressing the whites, with all their complaining about racism!
Your position is kind of like pointing out the rare case where a girl makes up the story of a rape and extrapolating that situation on to every rape victim. It's wrong to take the corner case and make it representative of the whole then, and it's wrong to do it as you're doing now.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 10:03:40 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6721
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dinita717
ARE YOU SERIOUS????????????????
there are so many nationalities there that racism would be impossible to pracitce or to see.
You actually believe that racism can't be practiced or visible if there are a lot of nationalities??? where do you get that theory from?
Do you believe racism is non-existant?
First, have you ever been to Heathrow International Airport?
The definition of Racism is;
quote:
rac⋅ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races .
So I would challenge anyone to factually apply that definition to any of the 67 million annual passengers from every country in the World that go through Heathrow.
How would one 'Know" that someone believes that they are superior or that somone else is inferior from the momentary passing of the millions of folks that are changing planes, arriving to, or departing from London?
Are you psysic, or do you judge folks by thier body language, or the expression on thier faces, or some other developed sixth sense? I mean how do you know they are "Racist". that they hate someone because of the color of thier skin?
The term racism is so overused that it hardly carries any meaning, and it should carry much meaning for raicism is an ungly and horrid thing. But all the pseudo "Victimization" and willy-nilly accusations have made naming someone a racist into a parlor game of sorts. And that is sad.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 11:54:39 AM
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solo_soprano23
Posts: 2081
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bountiful
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
How about some real racist incidents?
Are you assuming she's lying to you?
NO, I was just saying that if it was factual and she was not just trying to make a point that some of it might warrent legal action.
Why would you ask such a question, are you trying to stir up something?
Thanks
RC
I don't think you're being fair here, RC. You have seen enough of the world to know that the average person has very little chance of legal action changing anything in this kind of a situation.
Legal action would likely change nothing and would just end up costing you money you can't afford. The law has little to do with justice. Most of it seems to be geared to avoiding justice.
What else does "if it was factual" mean except you don't really believe her. "Why would you ask such a question" sounds like you're getting a little overly sensitive here. Why blame huangshan for "trying to stir something up" when you seem to be doing a good enough job of that on your own.
Racism doesn't have to mean burning crosses on somebody's front lawn.
Just because you're tired of racism and think everybody should just get over it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it's existence irritates you that much don't bother discussing it anymore.
I do think some people don't believe it exists at all-- that those who experience it are holding onto things that happened decades/centuries ago, and are probably just in this thread to say that 1) We have "victim" mentality, and/or 2) attempt to go against all we say that's happened to us that's racist in the present day.
Why ask me for examples, then when I give them, and DON'T EVEN SAY if they happened to me or not, just assume they aren't "real incidents"? I got the "examples" from my own life and experiences, and I didn't list the most serious one. A doctor let my brother die in a Selma hospital in the '60's, and he told my mother that "they just don't save black babies." All he needed was some medicine; instead he had a funeral that my mom couldn't attend because she was too hurt from the birth. My aunt took a pic for her and it's the only one of him that we've ever had. So, maybe before people assume you don't know what racism is, people need to get to know you. It's rather insulting to run around telling people that what they've gone through is trivial; that they are playing the victim. If you can't believe what they say, then pray for them and move on. If you think they play victim, then again, pray for them. I don't see how it helps to get in someone's face in one way or another, solely to minimize what they've had to struggle with because of the color of their skin, or because of their nationality because you don't believe them. Whether you believe them or not, unless you were there with them through life or it's been disproven, you don't know whether or not they are telling you the truth.
I'm not talking about just black people either. Hispanics, Asians, Whites, Blacks... Plenty of racism to go around, but I do not think that we all have incidents happen to us equally.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 1:56:53 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6721
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
I'm not talking about just black people either. Hispanics, Asians, Whites, Blacks... Plenty of racism to go around, but I do not think that we all have incidents happen to us equally.
But is everone who is called a 'Racist" a racist; I mean according to the definition of racist (someone who feels that the ones they are accused of being racist towards are sub-human or such, or that they themselves are racially superior to all others and that drives thier being?).
As I have said true racism and racist are a bane on society and against all that is good and Holy; but not eveyone that is called a racist is racist.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 2:00:10 PM
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wunderschon
Posts: 67
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How can we have a multicultural world if there only ends up being one culture? What culture should that be? What if, say, a group of people are interested in preserving their Irish heritage and customs and folkways, or a group of Polynesian people are interested in doing the same, does that make them racist or does it make them into being their little piece of the multicultural world? Are only some cultures worth preservation and celebration? Are there any particular cultures which should be suppressed (I'm always speaking of ethnicity here, not "cultures" [I guess that would be a "sub-culture"] such as emo or the like, LOL) and assimilated out of existence? When does it cross the line from being preservation of culture into racism, and is that line the same for all cultures?
_____________________________
For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 4:05:09 PM
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manda59
Posts: 8197
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
The definition of Racism is;
quote:
rac⋅ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races .
Actually, that's *a* definition of racism. I presume it's from Merriam Webster?
The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as:
quote:
• noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race. 2 discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.
I believe what I witnessed at Gatwick Airport that time was discrimination, based on race.
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 5:13:11 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
I believe what I witnessed at Gatwick Airport that time was discrimination, based on race.
Manda,
With all due respect, you can believe in faeries if you wish.
Solo
Color me insensitive if you want. Perhaps I'll never understand how incidents from the 60s would color one's personal perspective on the motives of others. It must be difficult questioning every jerk behavior in human beings and wondering if it is a repeat of a long history of things that are well documented 30 years ago: separate drinking fountains and bathrooms and all that. I just know that most people I meet bend over backwards trying to avoid the appearance of racism: and innocuous comment or a movement in the store. It just seems there is no winning.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 5:24:53 PM
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solo_soprano23
Posts: 2081
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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Most of the time I don't have to wonder.
Many will tell you flat-out to your face that they do certain things toward blacks because they don't like black people; it's not a matter of wondering then. Just like one of my friends in college; she was roomed with a white student, and the white student hated her-- told her to her face that she hated blacks, that she wasn't raised to even acknowledge them, and moved out. It's not a matter of wondering or guessing. So many will just tell you how they think or feel or why they do this or that to you.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:12:01 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
Most of the time I don't have to wonder.
Many will tell you flat-out to your face that they do certain things toward blacks because they don't like black people; it's not a matter of wondering then. Just like one of my friends in college; she was roomed with a white student, and the white student hated her-- told her to her face that she hated blacks, that she wasn't raised to even acknowledge them, and moved out. It's not a matter of wondering or guessing. So many will just tell you how they think or feel or why they do this or that to you.
Solo,
Maybe it's different in Alabama. I have never lived there. I have only been through there.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:12:32 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
But don't try to tell someone that believes in the purity of the races that they cannot fell it is wrong to mix the races in marriage.
An individual's capacity to affect how others feel is necessarily limited. But I can certainly tell such people that their beliefs are stupid and wrong and racist.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:16:20 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
Joined: 8/6/2008
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This whole conversation about finely slicing and defining the term "racism" reminds me of people trying really really hard to avoid the term "genocide" and instead using any number of idiotic choice euphemisms during the Rwanda genocide. Because admitting to the reality of the situation meant that something was truly seriously wrong and that people should do something.
Racism is like genocide. No one wants to admit it when it's happening because no one wants to get involved, no one wants to admit how awful people can be.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:27:27 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
This whole conversation about finely slicing and defining the term "racism" reminds me of people trying really really hard to avoid the term "genocide" and instead using any number of idiotic choice euphemisms during the Rwanda genocide. Because admitting to the reality of the situation meant that something was truly seriously wrong and that people should do something.
Racism is like genocide. No one wants to admit it when it's happening because no one wants to get involved, no one wants to admit how awful people can be.
We cannot read minds. When we start judging the contents of a person's hard based upon behaviors that can have other motives, that is the result.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:34:57 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
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Exactly. Genocide is typically portrayed as being an internal affair, limited in scope, civil war, anything but what it actually is. People need that plausible deniability so they have an excuse to sit by and do nothing. Racism works the same way. Hence the "segregation isn't racism", "believing in the purity of the races isn't racism", "people avoiding the only black guy isn't racism", there's always that plausible deniability to keep people uncaring, and even blaming the victims and witnesses who speak up of race-baiting and stirring the pot.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:37:41 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
Most of the time I don't have to wonder.
Many will tell you flat-out to your face that they do certain things toward blacks because they don't like black people; it's not a matter of wondering then. Just like one of my friends in college; she was roomed with a white student, and the white student hated her-- told her to her face that she hated blacks, that she wasn't raised to even acknowledge them, and moved out. It's not a matter of wondering or guessing. So many will just tell you how they think or feel or why they do this or that to you.
Question; did your friend's roomate tell you this, or did your freind just say that her roomate said this?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:39:48 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Exactly. Genocide is typically portrayed as being an internal affair, limited in scope, civil war, anything but what it actually is. People need that plausible deniability so they have an excuse to sit by and do nothing. Racism works the same way. Hence the "segregation isn't racism", "believing in the purity of the races isn't racism", "people avoiding the only black guy isn't racism", there's always that plausible deniability to keep people uncaring, and even blaming the victims and witnesses who speak up of race-baiting and stirring the pot.
And what would you call the extremely over the top high incidence of black on black violence and murder rate? Intra-racism?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:41:14 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
Most of the time I don't have to wonder.
Many will tell you flat-out to your face that they do certain things toward blacks because they don't like black people; it's not a matter of wondering then. Just like one of my friends in college; she was roomed with a white student, and the white student hated her-- told her to her face that she hated blacks, that she wasn't raised to even acknowledge them, and moved out. It's not a matter of wondering or guessing. So many will just tell you how they think or feel or why they do this or that to you.
Question; did your friend's roomate tell you this, or did your freind just say that her roomate said this?
Are you going to accuse the friend of lying if solo tells you her friend simply reported it to her?
If so, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You assume bad faith on the part of the victims, always try to find that angle of plausible deniability so you don't have to admit that there's anything wrong (except on the part of the victims, who are liars!)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:43:19 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Exactly. Genocide is typically portrayed as being an internal affair, limited in scope, civil war, anything but what it actually is. People need that plausible deniability so they have an excuse to sit by and do nothing. Racism works the same way. Hence the "segregation isn't racism", "believing in the purity of the races isn't racism", "people avoiding the only black guy isn't racism", there's always that plausible deniability to keep people uncaring, and even blaming the victims and witnesses who speak up of race-baiting and stirring the pot.
And what would you call the extremely over the top high incidence of black on black violence and murder rate? Intra-racism?
I call it the consequences of poverty. I don't see what that has to do with anything I said.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:44:39 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Exactly. Genocide is typically portrayed as being an internal affair, limited in scope, civil war, anything but what it actually is. People need that plausible deniability so they have an excuse to sit by and do nothing. Racism works the same way. Hence the "segregation isn't racism", "believing in the purity of the races isn't racism", "people avoiding the only black guy isn't racism", there's always that plausible deniability to keep people uncaring, and even blaming the victims and witnesses who speak up of race-baiting and stirring the pot.
We aren't defending genocide and you know it.
If I am not there, what am I supposed to do about it? We had a matter not too long ago about a black professor telling the world that a white police officer had precipitated a race based confrontation. We know that race baiting goes on too. I know that I have "offended" black people when no such thought was on my mind. Can I help it?
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 10/27/2009 6:56:01 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:53:28 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 879
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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People being offended is on them (in EVERY aspect of life). If they choose to be offended, that's their decision. I shouldn't have to cater my behavior to the person who is most offended.
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:54:00 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Exactly. Genocide is typically portrayed as being an internal affair, limited in scope, civil war, anything but what it actually is. People need that plausible deniability so they have an excuse to sit by and do nothing. Racism works the same way. Hence the "segregation isn't racism", "believing in the purity of the races isn't racism", "people avoiding the only black guy isn't racism", there's always that plausible deniability to keep people uncaring, and even blaming the victims and witnesses who speak up of race-baiting and stirring the pot.
We aren't defending genocide and you know it.
If I am there, what am I supposed to do about it? We had a matter not too long ago about a black professor telling the world that a white police officer had precipitated a race based confrontation. We know that race baiting goes on too. I know that I have "offended" black people when no such thought was on my mind. Can I help it?
I know. That's the point. No one defends genocide, everyone admits it's a horrible thing. They just don't admit when it's happening. That's what happened during the Rwanda genocide, that's what happens with racism. No one defends racism. In this way, people can in good consciousness favor stopping racism in the abstract, while simultaneously opposing involvement in the moment.
We know that the victims of any kind of violence are quick to paint themselves as being in the most dire of straits and they want to show their attackers in the worst possible light. In this way, some people use the "G" word when it isn't warranted, some people use the "R" word when it isn't warranted. But proponents of inaction, of uncaring, of not seeing what's actually happening point to these corner cases and paint every incidence the same. In this way, only the most explicit and egregious offenses get any attention at all (if there is any attention given even to them), while the bulk of them go under the radar.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 7:15:44 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I know. That's the point. No one defends genocide, everyone admits it's a horrible thing. They just don't admit when it's happening. That's what happened during the Rwanda genocide, that's what happens with racism. No one defends racism. In this way, people can in good consciousness favor stopping racism in the abstract, while simultaneously opposing involvement in the moment.
I abhor racism. But I cannot honestly say that I have seen any of these type things described here.
I have never seen people avoid a black clerk or counter person. I haven't seen people avoiding the company of people just because they were black or any other color. I have and have had for many year black and Hispanic neighbors. We moved into a house two years ago and my neighbor across the street is Chinese. There's a slight language barrier and his teen aged kids and their friends park directly across the street so I can hardly back out without hitting them. But we don't have any problems that I know of. Maybe they think my complaints about backing out of my drive way are because they are Chinese. I don't know.
I oppose racism in the abstract because I don't see the things described here. Maybe I don't read enough into every disagreement I have with people. Maybe I am supposed to imagine the worst of motives?
Or maybe people are just grouchy jerks and sinners who cannot be at peace with their own family members much less people of another race. Frankly, that is much easier to believe because that's exactly what I see in some form or other every day of the week.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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