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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/3/2008 11:49:42 AM
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ObviousLee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
it had a good effect.
In the beginning of AA it did have a beneficial effect...even though basically it was just as prejudicial as the previous systems. People needed to be intergrated and this was one way.
To be frank, you make a good point. Theoretically, it could be stated that AA would/could be a temporary system anyways. Somewhat ironically, AA worked for Asian Americans at first since they are considered a minority. When the Universities began to fill with more and more of them, it became rather alarming to many, and attempts at reducing their numbers came into affect. So AA basically no longer benefited them.
What strikes me in the overall conversation of this thread, is that it seems there are those who are staunch enough against the AA method, that I'm guessing that by principle alone it should have never of been implemented in their opinion. I guess something along the lines of one wrong can't make a right.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/6/2008 11:41:20 PM
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solo_soprano22
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I actually think if people just embrace and appreciate even those little differences things might be better.
I grease my hair because it doesn't naturally have oil. I can't wash it because of that and the fact that I cannot blow dry then straighten my hair each day. It literally takes hours if not a whole day by itself. But others think it's nasty that I can't wash my hair every day and I have to grease it, and because THEY have to wash theirs every day to keep the oil out and "clean," I must be a freak for being different. What ever happened to just not being the same becasue we're different ethinicities? Why does it have to be gross? And, just to keep it real, I've never seen a black person tell a white person their gross cause of something like that, but white people say it to me. It's almost like, in MY experience, that what caucasians do is the norm, and if you differ then you're a freak. I don't understand why that has to be. I'd rather not even get into it. When I meet a new friend who's not black, they never know I grease my hair, that my skin scars easily, that I can't wash my hair regularly, that I have to get relaxers, that I get ashy, etc. It's too much trouble to explain....then most of the time they think it's gross or just cannot comprehend the fact that I'm different than them.
My non-black friends can't really understand what I mean (from their own mouths), but the black friends do (or the ones who have to do the same "rituals" from day to maintain themselves). I realize everyone's life is different; everyone's friends are different, and that my personal experience doesn't reflect the entire USA's attitude.
I just think it'd be a good starting point to embrace each other FULLY.
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"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 12:34:02 AM
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Acts29
Posts: 355
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I actually think if people just embrace and appreciate even those little differences things might be better.
I grease my hair because it doesn't naturally have oil. I can't wash it because of that and the fact that I cannot blow dry then straighten my hair each day. It literally takes hours if not a whole day by itself. But others think it's nasty that I can't wash my hair every day and I have to grease it, and because THEY have to wash theirs every day to keep the oil out and "clean," I must be a freak for being different. What ever happened to just not being the same becasue we're different ethinicities? Why does it have to be gross? And, just to keep it real, I've never seen a black person tell a white person their gross cause of something like that, but white people say it to me. It's almost like, in MY experience, that what caucasians do is the norm, and if you differ then you're a freak. I don't understand why that has to be. I'd rather not even get into it. When I meet a new friend who's not black, they never know I grease my hair, that my skin scars easily, that I can't wash my hair regularly, that I have to get relaxers, that I get ashy, etc. It's too much trouble to explain....then most of the time they think it's gross or just cannot comprehend the fact that I'm different than them.
My non-black friends can't really understand what I mean (from their own mouths), but the black friends do (or the ones who have to do the same "rituals" from day to maintain themselves). I realize everyone's life is different; everyone's friends are different, and that my personal experience doesn't reflect the entire USA's attitude.
I just think it'd be a good starting point to embrace each other FULLY.
All I can is that you guys are answering questions I never thought of. I DO agree we should embrace our differences and appreciate the reasons why God made us this way. We all should take the beauty that God gives us and enhance it not hide it. I am saying this to everyone because we can easily allow others to define us. There was a reason why God made us differently and He is the designer of each and every person.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 1:11:33 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3586
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I knew that some black people did not wash their hair very often but I had no idea why. It never occurred to me the hair was so different. I thought with certain "arraingements" they couldn't wash their hair that often.
Maybe the reason why you are asked about things like hair and stuff is because white people...don't know? I didn't know. Didn't have a clue. I have to take two showers a day or I would have skin like a teenager. Only taking a couple showers a week, or washing your hair once a week would certainly, from my perspective, be gross.
Now I know differently.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 5:11:25 AM
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jennleigh
Posts: 83
Joined: 12/6/2007
From: Fuquay-Varina, NC
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quote:
When I meet a new friend who's not black, they never know I grease my hair, that my skin scars easily, that I can't wash my hair regularly, that I have to get relaxers, that I get ashy, etc. It's too much trouble to explain....then most of the time they think it's gross or just cannot comprehend the fact that I'm different than them.
Maybe it has to do with the way these questions are being asked? I am naturally curious about people who are different than me. Not in a "eww you're gross because you're not like me" kind of way, though. My best friend in grade school was a black girl and I was fascinated watching her get her hair done - watching her use the curling iron to make these beautiful, smooth curls that stayed where she put them. I remember asking her one day why it took her so long to get ready to go out, and she invited me over to watch her curl her hair on a Saturday (yes, it was an all-day affair). I was invited over to her aunt's house where my friend and her cousins were all getting their hair done, and I was mesmerized. I never knew the work that went into just straightening their hair. I left there having learned something about someone who was different than me. I thought it was beautiful. They even tried to curl my hair, but because it was bone-straight, it wouldn't even take LOL. I certainly never thought she was "gross" or anything like that. I also never got the impression that I offended anyone by asking questions about our differences.
I guess my question is: are you offended by being asked questions or are you offended by the WAY the questions are asked? I think we have so much we can learn from each other and we can celebrate our differences, not judge according to them. I guess I just wanted to know if there was a way to ask those kinds of questions without being offensive. Thanks!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 8:54:35 AM
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solo_soprano22
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I don't mind curiousity. That's fine. I know there are things about other ethnicities that are different that I don't know.
And, just to be clear, there are friends that can ask or inquire and not be rude about it. I just run into way too many with the eww factor (as I call it). The way not to be offensive is not to act like it's gross because it's different...or, that's the way it is when people ask me.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 10:41:01 AM
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Kath
Posts: 16551
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quote:
Oh yes, the hair questions are the best, aren't they?
She is (my friend is) extremely ignorant of differences between us (just from me being around her and her family)
but how can anyone find out if they don't ask? I'd never ask a total stranger but I'd ask someone I considered a friend. I'd hate to think they thought I was just being rude.
quote:
And, just to keep it real, I've never seen a black person tell a white person their gross cause of something like that, but white people say it to me.
That is very rude.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 11:41:37 AM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
Oh yes, the hair questions are the best, aren't they?
She is (my friend is) extremely ignorant of differences between us (just from me being around her and her family)
but how can anyone find out if they don't ask? I'd never ask a total stranger but I'd ask someone I considered a friend. I'd hate to think they thought I was just being rude.
quote:
And, just to keep it real, I've never seen a black person tell a white person their gross cause of something like that, but white people say it to me.
That is very rude.
I think the problem with that particular friend (that I mentioned) is not that she asks, but when she asks and gets the answer, it's almost like "how/why would anyone do that?" But it's like she can't comprehend that we're just not the same because of our ethinicities. But I think it'd odd of her, because she sits around all day watching people like Tiffany Pollard (who I don't like), then complain that her weave looks weird or something...then asks why Ms. Pollard can't just wear her natural hair long; when I tell her black women's hair typically can't grow longer than shoulders or neck she just seems dumbfounded. I think no matter how much I try to explain to her she'll either think it's gross (she thinks that about hair grease), or she can't get it. I honestly think she thinks that every other race can do what she does to maintain herself, but it just ain't so. 
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 4:15:28 PM
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lexie
Posts: 3088
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From: Toronto
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So everyone on my husbands side of the family wants to talk to me about hair care. I already get it, I'm not that sheltered, I have black friends, I understand how their hair needs to be taken care of and I'm taking great care of my daughters hair.
What is interesting though, for people who make a big deal about how I supposedly can't take care of my daughters black hair, is they don't know much about white people's hair. When I told them I had to wash my hair every day they didn't understand why. When I told them how it gets greasy, they thought that was gross that my hair naturally did that.
I work with a lot of white people who don't have much interaction with black people on a personal level and one day I was explaining to them how I do my daughter's hair (because that's always one of the first comments about mixed babies - oooh I love their hair!). We talked about dreadlocks and one person made the comment about how they don't understand why people do that because how can they stand the smell. They didn't understand that dreadlocks are not just grown because people stop washing their but that they are well taken care of. The way in which the woman made the comment was offensive but I had to stop and realize that she really has no understanding of how it works and thus doesn't know any better.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 9:02:26 PM
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devinevessel
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jennleigh
quote:
When I meet a new friend who's not black, they never know I grease my hair, that my skin scars easily, that I can't wash my hair regularly, that I have to get relaxers, that I get ashy, etc. It's too much trouble to explain....then most of the time they think it's gross or just cannot comprehend the fact that I'm different than them.
Maybe it has to do with the way these questions are being asked? I am naturally curious about people who are different than me. Not in a "eww you're gross because you're not like me" kind of way, though. My best friend in grade school was a black girl and I was fascinated watching her get her hair done - watching her use the curling iron to make these beautiful, smooth curls that stayed where she put them. I remember asking her one day why it took her so long to get ready to go out, and she invited me over to watch her curl her hair on a Saturday (yes, it was an all-day affair). I was invited over to her aunt's house where my friend and her cousins were all getting their hair done, and I was mesmerized. I never knew the work that went into just straightening their hair. I left there having learned something about someone who was different than me. I thought it was beautiful. They even tried to curl my hair, but because it was bone-straight, it wouldn't even take LOL. I certainly never thought she was "gross" or anything like that. I also never got the impression that I offended anyone by asking questions about our differences.
I guess my question is: are you offended by being asked questions or are you offended by the WAY the questions are asked? I think we have so much we can learn from each other and we can celebrate our differences, not judge according to them. I guess I just wanted to know if there was a way to ask those kinds of questions without being offensive. Thanks!
For me it brings up bad memories. When ever I was asked this question I was the only black person in a group of people and one person would ask me, "Is it true that black people...?" That is very rude to me. It has never ocurred to me to ask another person who is off a different ethnicity about their hygiene or ask non-hygiene questions.
I guess my perspective would be different if a friend asked me about my hair. I avoid certian types of conversations about hair. Weird, I know.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 9:05:23 PM
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devinevessel
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I actually think if people just embrace and appreciate even those little differences things might be better.
I grease my hair because it doesn't naturally have oil. I can't wash it because of that and the fact that I cannot blow dry then straighten my hair each day. It literally takes hours if not a whole day by itself. But others think it's nasty that I can't wash my hair every day and I have to grease it, and because THEY have to wash theirs every day to keep the oil out and "clean," I must be a freak for being different. What ever happened to just not being the same becasue we're different ethinicities? Why does it have to be gross? And, just to keep it real, I've never seen a black person tell a white person their gross cause of something like that, but white people say it to me. It's almost like, in MY experience, that what caucasians do is the norm, and if you differ then you're a freak. I don't understand why that has to be. I'd rather not even get into it. When I meet a new friend who's not black, they never know I grease my hair, that my skin scars easily, that I can't wash my hair regularly, that I have to get relaxers, that I get ashy, etc. It's too much trouble to explain....then most of the time they think it's gross or just cannot comprehend the fact that I'm different than them.
My non-black friends can't really understand what I mean (from their own mouths), but the black friends do (or the ones who have to do the same "rituals" from day to maintain themselves). I realize everyone's life is different; everyone's friends are different, and that my personal experience doesn't reflect the entire USA's attitude.
I just think it'd be a good starting point to embrace each other FULLY.
I remember after taking my braids out of my hair and straightening it a co-worker who was not black said my hair looked better because it was straight and not "puffy" at the roots. I didn't say anything but that really offended me. Again this was after dealing with being put on the spot and being asked questions about black people for years.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 9:06:26 PM
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solo_soprano22
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It's awkward when that happens. I'm usually the only black person (or I guess mixed you could say, although I'm mostly African-American, but people usually assume the ratio is lower because of my "brightness") in a group. Then if a question is asked about black people I just feel uncomfortable. I think sometimes people aren't thinking about that though....they're just thinking about the inquiry.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/7/2008 9:24:21 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2304
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quote:
ORIGINAL: devinevessel
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I actually think if people just embrace and appreciate even those little differences things might be better.
I grease my hair because it doesn't naturally have oil. I can't wash it because of that and the fact that I cannot blow dry then straighten my hair each day. It literally takes hours if not a whole day by itself. But others think it's nasty that I can't wash my hair every day and I have to grease it, and because THEY have to wash theirs every day to keep the oil out and "clean," I must be a freak for being different. What ever happened to just not being the same becasue we're different ethinicities? Why does it have to be gross? And, just to keep it real, I've never seen a black person tell a white person their gross cause of something like that, but white people say it to me. It's almost like, in MY experience, that what caucasians do is the norm, and if you differ then you're a freak. I don't understand why that has to be. I'd rather not even get into it. When I meet a new friend who's not black, they never know I grease my hair, that my skin scars easily, that I can't wash my hair regularly, that I have to get relaxers, that I get ashy, etc. It's too much trouble to explain....then most of the time they think it's gross or just cannot comprehend the fact that I'm different than them.
My non-black friends can't really understand what I mean (from their own mouths), but the black friends do (or the ones who have to do the same "rituals" from day to maintain themselves). I realize everyone's life is different; everyone's friends are different, and that my personal experience doesn't reflect the entire USA's attitude.
I just think it'd be a good starting point to embrace each other FULLY.
I remember after taking my braids out of my hair and straightening it a co-worker who was not black said my hair looked better because it was straight and not "puffy" at the roots. I didn't say anything but that really offended me. Again this was after dealing with being put on the spot and being asked questions about black people for years.
New growth will always be "puffy" at the roots until you get a relaxer (if you so choose). 
I understand being curious or just not knowing, but I know in my experience what has bothered me is that people seem to think that if I'm not the way they are then I'm not right. What ever happened to just being different? I know someone who thinks that everyone's hair is supposed to be like hers, but I have to get relaxers and used hot combs....or every once in a while have to touch up my "kitchen." (And a bunch of other things.) I just think there's a way to ask that is appropriate and we should accept the fact that races are sometimes just different because we're made that way. No one's better.
I was thinking back to that friend I mentioned earler; one thing that bothered me is that she'd say something to the effect of "eww why is her hair like that" or "why is her weave all messed up," etc. It's just not cool. I feel as if some people put down others because they can't be the same way. I see that attitude all the time. I do know some black women...that if you ask them something with "eww" tacked on the front of it, you may lost some teeth. I'm patient with people, and know not everyone means it to be mean, but something tells me adults can ask things in a decent, non-insulting way. A child maybe I could understand.
< Message edited by solo_soprano21 -- 1/7/2008 9:46:22 PM >
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/8/2008 2:27:45 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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I actually LOVE multiple braids...I think black people look SO good in them (as well as other styles). I have often longed to have the multiple braid thing myself(I do have naturally curly hair)..but most people tell me that they just wouldn't look right on me(fair skinned redhead here).
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/9/2008 11:56:05 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3088
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From: Toronto
Status: online
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quote:
Then if a question is asked about black people I just feel uncomfortable. I think sometimes people aren't thinking about that though....they're just thinking about the inquiry.
Hey I get asked stuff about black people all the time, apparently I'm expert now. Sometimes I honestly, plainly get the feeling that the reason people are asking me is they know that if they asked a black person, they would be offended. So they ask me instead as if it still won't offend me.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/9/2008 12:09:45 PM
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SteelCurtain
Posts: 147
Joined: 3/20/2007
From: Virginia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight.
Welcome to the One Stop thread for all things related to racial issues.
Do they exist?
Why do they exist?
How can they be overcome?
What should be done about past offenses?
Discuss these as well as other questions that may come up... all things racial.
[Admin's Note: Please refrain from personal attack.]
1. Yes, racism exists...on all sides.
2. They exist out of man's stupidity and sin.
3. They can be overcome but everyone has to want it to be overcome. The fact is that we simply don't want to put the effort forth to actually overcome it. It's just like sin...we sin because we want to. Racism exists because people want it to exist. It's up to the church to set the model of "why can't we all just get along".
I will also say that "reverse racism" is not okay. Typically, it's whites who get targeted for racism. Whites were the ones who did alot of the slave trading so whites typically get blamed. I'd like to see Al Sharpton march for a white on white crime. He is a civil rights leader the last time I checked. I'd like to see the KKK be disbanded. I was watching the History channel the other day and they had a special on about gangs. Whites vs. blacks, blacks vs. whites, hispanics vs. whites, hispanics vs. blacks etc...It's sad to see that people are fighting for concrete.
4. Past offenses? Good question. What can be done? I have no idea. A youth pastor of mine back when I was 18 asked all of the white students to kneel before the black students and say "I'm sorry". Yes, I did kneel because I am truly sorry for what happened in the past but what exactly did I personally do? Nothing. I don't know my family history so I can tell you if my great, great, great uncle or grandfather was part of the KKK or a Johnny Reb. I have no idea. By past offenses are you speaking about all races being offended?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/9/2008 12:52:56 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5016
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelCurtain
I'd like to see the KKK be disbanded.
Well I believe the KKK has effectively been disbanded.
There are not enough true Klansmen in the whole USA to hold one decent 4th of July, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, white supremacy, we hate everyone but us cross burning.
Thanks
RC
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/9/2008 9:59:51 PM
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Shugs
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KKK is not disbanded. They have simply been reduced to the level of ridiculous. The hair washing thing is ALSO an assumption. What many minorites (and i myself) desire is simple. Don't hold my complexion against me and I won't hold the past against you. Don't assume you know anything about me just becuase you have seen the outside. Don't assume I feel like being an ambassador and answering any of your assinine questions. Of the millions of Blacks in this country I only know a few. I don't dare answer on behalf of a bunch of people that I don't know.
Finally let us use and study these diffrences for the good of all people. Let us study how medicines and diseases react in diffrent racial (genetic) groups so that people can be effectively treated. Let us discover why hair samples are deceptive on non white individuals (because of protein levels in hair). However, if we are not going to do anything decent, reasonable or honorable, then let us just leave the entire thing alone.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/9/2008 10:52:58 PM
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zmanfan38
Posts: 9579
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: ...for it's root, root, root for the CUBBIES!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
(because that's always one of the first comments about mixed babies - oooh I love their hair!)
Yes, they sure do. We're white and adopted out daughter who is bi-racial (you can see her picture by clicking my screen name). She has very beautiful, brown, curly hair. I don't mind other people touching it now while she's a toddler, but I worry about her feeling uncomfortable about it a little later on.
One of the things that we were told in our parent training classes during the adoption process was (if we got a child with "black" hair) to find somebody who will take some time and explain how to care for their hair. I am VERY blessed to have a good friend who is black and has 2 daughters. She was the first person to know we got a baby, the first to visit us in the NICU, and she has been an honest, open resource to us about many things including her hair, skin, parenting advice, advice for down the road when she encounters racism.
This friend has shared her daughter's struggles with racism in their schools with me and we've cried like babies about it together. It breaks my heart to know that ignorant stuff like that still goes on today. I guess I had rose colored glasses on over my blinders.
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Open up my eyes to the things unseen
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 1/10/2008 1:18:00 PM
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Kath
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