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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 9:31:42 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 386
Joined: 3/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So it's not what I'm saying... it's what I'm thinking?
actually since you are open about your inaccurate stereotypes and assumptions it is about what you are saying.
...then you should have no trouble indicating what you disagree with via the quote feature. If you took the time to do that, you would likely find that I have already addressed much of what you're talking about.
The problem with not quoting me is that you can put words in my mouth. I'd rather that not happen. I'd rather you talked to me instead of a caricature. phreddy provides a fine example:
quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So it's not what I'm saying... it's what I'm thinking?
How is this any different than when you say white southern republicans are all racist?
I never said that.
Again, let's keep this in the realm of the real. Thanks.
I might have paraphrased it, but you said that the "birther" movement was racist because it has more support from southern white republicans. If support from southern white republicans makes something racist (in your words), my logic says that you think southern white republicans are racist. Am I wrong?
< Message edited by phreddy -- 9/30/2009 10:01:58 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 9:51:44 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5783
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Until I see actual proof one way or the other I will be a "birther."
It has absolutely nothing to do with race..............
I was opposed to Clinton being eligible as he ran off to Russia
instead of serving in the military. I think that should have
disqualified him. If Hussein isn't a citizen which he could easily
prove (but why would he?) he is disqualified by the Constitution.
I doubt many of our secret documents are secret any more with
all the socialists that occupy high offices of this nation.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 10:02:21 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
I might have paraphrased it, but you definitely said that the "birther" movement was racist because it has more support from southern white republicans. If support from southern white republicans makes something racist (in your words), my logic says that you think southern white republicans are racist. Am I wrong?
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans. Other Republicans in other regions don't seem to be so insane. An obvious conclusion is that still-extant Southern racism is affecting their perceptions of a black president."
I think Southern white Republicans are far more likely to be racist than Republicans in other regions, given the history of the South and the strong attachment to birtherism there.
One thing I should add is that (in my opinion) conspiracy theories seem to catch on far more easily among people who already have strong feelings about an issue or person. Hence the 9/11 Truther insanity on the left (hatred of Bush) and the Vince Foster conspiracies of the right (antipathy towards the Clintons). That's just speculation (I think it's good speculation though) so I could be wrong.
< Message edited by huangshan -- 9/30/2009 10:08:42 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 10:10:12 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I think Southern white Republicans are far more likely to be racist than Republicans in other regions, given the history of the South and the strong attachment to birtherism there.
So you counter the concern that you think southern whites republicans are racist by calling southern white republicans racist? Brilliant.
< Message edited by _jjp_ -- 9/30/2009 10:18:14 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 10:14:42 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan ...then you should have no trouble indicating what you disagree with via the quote feature. If you took the time to do that, you would likely find that I have already addressed much of what you're talking about.
The problem with not quoting me is that you can put words in my mouth. I'd rather that not happen.
As we have had a long discussion about your presuppositions regarding your arguements that southern whites are racists, which is what distinctly and openly colors your assumptions that you base your arguement on I care not to rehash it. I CLEARLY stated the point of my posts, the fact that you are unable to twist them to suit your needs doesn't bother me one bit. I will once again in plain english state for you that my statement is that your assumptions on which you build your arguement is false, therefore i see no need to quote your arguement. You and I have previously discussed your assumptions and if you care to you can go back and reread that dialog for your own benefit.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 10:54:15 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I think Southern white Republicans are far more likely to be racist than Republicans in other regions, given the history of the South and the strong attachment to birtherism there.
So you counter the concern that you think southern whites republicans are racist by calling southern white republicans racist?
I'm not sure if the meaning of "far more likely" is lost on you, or if you're simply choosing to ignore it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
I will once again in plain english state for you that my statement is that your assumptions on which you build your arguement is false, therefore i see no need to quote your arguement.
...and if you'd care to quote those assumptions, I'd be happy to discuss them.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 11:00:51 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I'm not sure if the meaning of "far more likely" is lost on you, or if you're simply choosing to ignore it.
It is not lost on me, you have a stereotype of southern whites which is what you were accused of to which you stated that was not the case yet your arguement that you didn't claim that is to state that they are racists, excuse me "FAR more likely to be racist"
quote:
...and if you'd care to quote those assumptions, I'd be happy to discuss them.
You being purposefully obtuse does not erase our prior conversations, look them up if you have need of refresher. For the past few posts in this thread i have CLEARLY stated my position. You pretending that you are clueless of my point does not make your ingrained stereotype any less bigotted nor does it erase the fact that your stereotype colors your arguements.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 11:14:32 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
You being purposefully obtuse does not erase our prior conversations, look them up if you have need of refresher. For the past few posts in this thread i have CLEARLY stated my position. You pretending that you are clueless of my point does not make your ingrained stereotype any less bigotted nor does it erase the fact that your stereotype colors your arguements.
You've been attempting to state *my* position and *my* assumptions without referencing anything I've said. It's telling that you're clinging to your characterization and refuse to actually quote me. Please do so. This is both repetitive and off topic.
UPDATE: You can have the last word, _jjp_. You know my conditions for having an honest dialog.
< Message edited by huangshan -- 9/30/2009 11:39:16 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 11:23:43 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
There are pockets of racists in every part of the country. Color does not define one as racist since all colors have them.
Although, there are some who would say that only whites can be racist. People of other races can be prejudiced, but not racist, because only whites actually have any power/privelage, and you have to have power/privelage to be racist. 
What you describe is institutional racism, which I would agree with you that in the USA white previously and to a lesser extent now have been the sole purveyors of institutional racism. However, racism, which is the belief in superiority of one race to another, is not solely a white problem.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2009 11:27:52 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
You've been attempting to state *my* position and *my* assumptions without referencing anything I've said. It's telling that you're clinging to your characterization and refuse to actually quote me. Please do so. This is both repetitive and off topic.
I have clearly stated my position which is that your stereotypes lead to your assumptions which color your arguements. Many many times in this thread and at least one other i have stated that it is your stereotype of southern whites which is at issue with your assumptions. In fact in the post that you quoted half of here the top half i speak directly to your stereotype and how it colors your views. The fact that you can't put the two together is not my fault. Oh and while it is repetetive it is not off topic, you make an accusation regarding southern whites being racist so it seems to fit here just fine.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/19/2009 6:51:33 PM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I think everyone's just a little bit racist. It's just one of those impulses that people have.
No kidding?
That includes the country of Japan. They haven't exactly climbed to the top of the liberal ladder of ethnic "awareness" superiority either.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/22/2009 9:04:01 AM
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angie4God
Posts: 367
Joined: 4/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
A black woman at the center of a 2007 torture case that raised questions of racism in West Virginia now says she lied about being a victim.
I was reading about that this morning. Didn't they plead guilty. I was thinking about about a story on another thread where this member of Ku Klux Klan paid a woman a visit and gave her a card about that being a social visit from the Klan and the next one not being one. I'm wondering if perhaps the victim might have been intimidated by someone to recant her story. It's possible right?
_____________________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Phillipians 4:13
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/22/2009 9:59:08 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 386
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angie4God
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
A black woman at the center of a 2007 torture case that raised questions of racism in West Virginia now says she lied about being a victim.
I was reading about that this morning. Didn't they plead guilty. I was thinking about about a story on another thread where this member of Ku Klux Klan paid a woman a visit and gave her a card about that being a social visit from the Klan and the next one not being one. I'm wondering if perhaps the victim might have been intimidated by someone to recant her story. It's possible right?
There might be some confusion about the Ku Klux Klan story. The police officer that handed the cards to the family said that he found them scattered around the protest site and was giving them to them family so that they would know about the threat. That does not negate the fact that the cards exist, but it does throw some doubt on the association of the police officer as a member of the KKK.
< Message edited by phreddy -- 10/22/2009 11:40:31 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 2:21:18 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans.
Is that documented evidence written down in a book or something, somewhere?
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 3:04:33 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans.
Is that documented evidence written down in a book or something, somewhere?
Yup.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 7:03:45 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans.
Is that documented evidence written down in a book or something, somewhere?
Yup.
Have you bothered to attempt to find that poll in the research 2000 archives yet? I have not been able to find it and have emailed them to which the response i got was that ALL research 2000 polls are saved in their archives. I wanted to see the methodology from a source other than the KOS which is unabashedly left leaning, I can't find it.
All of that being said, lets put the record on replay. What makes something racist simply because it is supported by people from the southern portion of the US.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 11:11:01 AM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
I wanted to see the methodology from a source other than the KOS which is unabashedly left leaning, I can't find it.
One of the reasons I'm always reluctant to cite stats or poll numbers here is because if someone on the right doesn't agree with the results of the poll, they don't attempt to dispute those results; but only claim that the source is "unabashedly left leaning". A decription that pretty much includes all sources other than those that are "unabashedly right leaning."
quote:
All of that being said, lets put the record on replay. What makes something racist simply because it is supported by people from the southern portion of the US.
"Something" is not racist simply because it's supported by southern whites. But when that "something" involves a racial component, like the the de-legitimizing of the first African-American POTUS, then alarms go off. Sorry guys, if we (black folks and other minorities) have to deal with racial profiling, so do you. And Southern white conservative birthers fit the profile. Regardless of those in denial, there is some history of racism in the south. As a side note, we can never have a legitimate discussion because its such an incendiary label and everyone has their own definition of what a racist is. Lately, that term has been thrown around quite a bit, with little to back it up. Glen Beck says Obama is a racist. Limbaugh has been called a racist. Sean Hannity's "pastor", the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson claims that 96 percent of blacks are racists simply because they voted for Obama. On the other hand, there is a thread here about the Justice of the Peace in Mississippi who wouldn't marry the interracial couple, and some here on CW argue that that's not racist. Here in the south, there is an ongoing debate about the Confederate flag. Racial profiling - is that racist? See my point? So we end up spinning our wheels.
My two cents about the birthers: In sports when you lose a game, maybe legitimately or maybe because you were victimized by a bad call from an official, there comes a time when you've got to stop whining about the game you lost and start focusing on winning the next one. In other words, birthers, it's time to get over it.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 12:06:25 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
I wanted to see the methodology from a source other than the KOS which is unabashedly left leaning, I can't find it.
One of the reasons I'm always reluctant to cite stats or poll numbers here is because if someone on the right doesn't agree with the results of the poll, they don't attempt to dispute those results; but only claim that the source is "unabashedly left leaning". A decription that pretty much includes all sources other than those that are "unabashedly right leaning."
Just taking a page from the left's playbook. I see the left bashing the polls/studies presented counter to their point because the group that put it out gets some funding from right leaning groups; but when an avowed left leaning group puts out a poll and I can't find the poll's methodology in the archives of the polling company that the KOS claims did the poll i am accused not attempting to dispute the results. I can't dispute something that i can't verify the methodology of now can I. Oh and the KOS is a no holds barred leftist organization, they don't ever claim to be anything else.
quote:
"Something" is not racist simply because it's supported by southern whites. But when that "something" involves a racial component, like the the de-legitimizing of the first African-American POTUS, then alarms go off.
It is not necessarily racist to question the legitimacy of the first african american president. That is the biggest problem with the current situation, one can not question Obama with out the accusations being cast that they are racist. That does nothing to foster better race relations or a stronger nation.
quote:
Sorry guys, if we (black folks and other minorities) have to deal with racial profiling, so do you. And Southern white conservative birthers fit the profile.
So you aim to squash stereotypes by stereotyping, smart move.
quote:
Regardless of those in denial, there is some history of racism in the south.
there was in fact a racist history in the south, but we have made leaps and bounds to move on. No matter how far we come though there will be ignorant stereotypes that southern whites are racist.
quote:
My two cents about the birthers: In sports when you lose a game, maybe legitimately or maybe because you were victimized by a bad call from an official, there comes a time when you've got to stop whining about the game you lost and start focusing on winning the next one. In other words, birthers, it's time to get over it.
I don't disagree with you but that doesn't make it a racist movement especially not because some leftist organization has presented a poll that the belief is fostered more in the south. Even if it is true that more in the south believe it doesn't make it racist unless one is unable to release themselves from their ignorant stereotypes of southern whites.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 7:14:25 PM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Just taking a page from the left's playbook. I see the left bashing the polls/studies presented counter to their point because the group that put it out gets some funding from right leaning groups....
That kinda proves my point. Every political pollster/statistician nowadays has an agenda. And I think people who look for validation of their existing ideas rather than the truth, don't really care about methodology when it comes to polls they agree with. If they don't agree with the poll or stats, they ask to examine the methodology - which they will find (surprise, surprise) is designed to provide a desired result - depending on who the desire audience is.
quote:
"Something" is not racist simply because it's supported by southern whites. But when that "something" involves a racial component, like the the de-legitimizing of the first African-American POTUS, then alarms go off.
quote:
It is not necessarily racist to question the legitimacy of the first african american president. That is the biggest problem with the current situation, one can not question Obama with out the accusations being cast that they are racist. That does nothing to foster better race relations or a stronger nation.
Re-read my statement. Because the south has a history of racial injustice against blacks, which really wasn't as long ago in the past as some want to imagine, southern whites questioning the legitimacy of a democratically elected black president causes alarms to go off. There's that perception based on historical precedent - perhaps also involving stereotypes and profiling of sorts, but nonetheless, justified or not, it's reality.
quote:
Sorry guys, if we (black folks and other minorities) have to deal with racial profiling, so do you. And Southern white conservative birthers fit the profile.
quote:
So you aim to squash stereotypes by stereotyping, smart move.
I don't aim to squash stereotypes. I have to deal with getting pulled over for no reason other than I drive a nice car and I live in a predominantly white neighborhood, people of Middle Eastern ethnicity have to deal with getting profiled at airports, Hispanics get profiled as all being illegal - all those examples I just cited, some will say these are not stereotypes, but they're based on historical precedent, and statistics. So when someone provides you a "study" that "proves" black people driving Lexus' (or is the plural, Lexi?) are probably drug dealers, some folks won't question the "methodology" but will take it as fact. I'm not here to try to prove that I'm not a drug dealer, nor do I believe the Middle Eastern college professor goes out of his/her way to prove they're not going to run the plane into a building. We just deal with it. You can't stop us from getting angry when it happens though. Now white southerners have some negative sterotypes associated with them too. You're wasting your time if you're trying to "squash" these negative stereotypes; but I can't blame you for getting angry when they're brought up.
quote:
Regardless of those in denial, there is some history of racism in the south.
there was in fact a racist history in the south, but we have made leaps and bounds to move on. No matter how far we come though there will be ignorant stereotypes that southern whites are racist.
Thats my point. And no matter how far (fill in the blank with a minority) has come, there will always be ignorant stereotypes that (fill in the blank with a minority) are (fill in the blank with a negative stereotype).
quote:
My two cents about the birthers: In sports when you lose a game, maybe legitimately or maybe because you were victimized by a bad call from an official, there comes a time when you've got to stop whining about the game you lost and start focusing on winning the next one. In other words, birthers, it's time to get over it.
quote:
I don't disagree with you but that doesn't make it a racist movement especially not because some leftist organization has presented a poll that the belief is fostered more in the south. Even if it is true that more in the south believe it doesn't make it racist unless one is unable to release themselves from their ignorant stereotypes of southern whites.
Again: Dosen't necessarily make it racist but because it is supported by a lot of white southerners, and citing their history, alarms go off. And all of this is partially because we don't have a clear definition of "racism." Obama's a racist, Limbaugh's a racist, the man behind the tree...everybody of course, besides you and me. 
A hypothetical: If McCain would have won and a movement to de-legitimize his presidency based on his citizenship sprung up, and it was determined from a study from reliable source (like Fox News or World Net Daily or Drudge ) that most blacks questioned McCain's citizenship, would there not be at least some suspicions that these blacks were just mad because a black man didn't win?
< Message edited by jaymai -- 10/30/2009 7:36:44 PM >
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