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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 7:35:07 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans.
Is that documented evidence written down in a book or something, somewhere?
Yup.
Oh yea, if a Daily Kos poll said it, then it must be true.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 9:07:10 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
That kinda proves my point. Every political pollster/statistician nowadays has an agenda. And I think people who look for validation of their existing ideas rather than the truth, don't really care about methodology when it comes to polls they agree with. If they don't agree with the poll or stats, they ask to examine the methodology - which they will find (surprise, surprise) is designed to provide a desired result - depending on who the desire audience is.
I expect methodology to be clearly presented with any poll.
quote:
Re-read my statement. Because the south has a history of racial injustice against blacks, which really wasn't as long ago in the past as some want to imagine, southern whites questioning the legitimacy of a democratically elected black president causes alarms to go off. There's that perception based on historical precedent - perhaps also involving stereotypes and profiling of sorts, but nonetheless, justified or not, it's reality.
So basically, there are those who are unable to understand that southern whites are capable of overcoming the idiocy of the past so the southern whites are deserving of idiotic stereotypes?
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I don't aim to squash stereotypes. I have to deal with getting pulled over for no reason other than I drive a nice car and I live in a predominantly white neighborhood, people of Middle Eastern ethnicity have to deal with getting profiled at airports, Hispanics get profiled as all being illegal - all those examples I just cited, some will say these are not stereotypes, but they're based on historical precedent, and statistics. So when someone provides you a "study" that "proves" black people driving Lexus' (or is the plural, Lexi?) are probably drug dealers, some folks won't question the "methodology" but will take it as fact. I'm not here to try to prove that I'm not a drug dealer, nor do I believe the Middle Eastern college professor goes out of his/her way to prove they're not going to run the plane into a building. We just deal with it. You can't stop us from getting angry when it happens though. Now white southerners have some negative sterotypes associated with them too. You're wasting your time if you're trying to "squash" these negative stereotypes; but I can't blame you for getting angry when they're brought up.
Until the local patrol cops got to know me driving through the neighborhood bordering the one i currently live in i got pulled over because "white people only come here for hookers or drugs". When i was in highschool and my first year in college i worked in a restaurant, the only white working there, I would give rides home after work to coworkers that lived on my way home so they wouldn't have to pay cab fair, some of them lived in "the projects" the first few times i dropped them off i was pulled over, once was handcuffed and had my car turned inside out. The facts are that there are certain patterns of behavior that are tip offs and police act on them. That is not to say that there isn't some racial profiling but much of it is criminal profiling.
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Again: Dosen't necessarily make it racist but because it is supported by a lot of white southerners, and citing their history, alarms go off. And all of this is partially because we don't have a clear definition of "racism."
Alarms go off because some people are unable to accept that southern whites can move beyond their historical ignorance. That doesn't make anything supported in the south to be more likely to be racist. I have mentioned it many times before, my experience has been that we are more integrated in the south now than in many areas of the country.
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A hypothetical: If McCain would have won and a movement to de-legitimize his presidency based on his citizenship sprung up, and it was determined from a study from reliable source (like Fox News or World Net Daily or Drudge  ) that most blacks questioned McCain's citizenship, would there not be at least some suspicions that these blacks were just mad because a black man didn't win?
McCain has been questioned the last two times he ran because he was born on a naval base out of the continental US.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 11:55:52 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans.
Is that documented evidence written down in a book or something, somewhere?
Yup.
Have you bothered to attempt to find that poll in the research 2000 archives yet?
No, I don't really care. I would expect a lawsuit if Kos used Research 2000's name without Research 2000 being involved. There isn't a lawsuit, so I'm going with "it's legit".
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2009 11:58:07 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Alarms go off because some people are unable to accept that southern whites can move beyond their historical ignorance.
History has shown that they have a habit of dragging their feet. Human psychology will show you that people don't just get over things.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 4:27:24 AM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
That kinda proves my point. Every political pollster/statistician nowadays has an agenda. And I think people who look for validation of their existing ideas rather than the truth, don't really care about methodology when it comes to polls they agree with. If they don't agree with the poll or stats, they ask to examine the methodology - which they will find (surprise, surprise) is designed to provide a desired result - depending on who the desire audience is.
I expect methodology to be clearly presented with any poll.
So you're going to honestly tell me that you question the methodology of any poll? Even those you agree with?
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Re-read my statement. Because the south has a history of racial injustice against blacks, which really wasn't as long ago in the past as some want to imagine, southern whites questioning the legitimacy of a democratically elected black president causes alarms to go off. There's that perception based on historical precedent - perhaps also involving stereotypes and profiling of sorts, but nonetheless, justified or not, it's reality.
So basically, there are those who are unable to understand that southern whites are capable of overcoming the idiocy of the past so the southern whites are deserving of idiotic stereotypes?
The idiotic stereotype you're talking about is being racist, right? I say this because there are some "idiotic stereotypes" that white southerners seem rather proud of and actually promote. Racism is part of that history, which wasn't that long ago. There are blacks in the south still alive who were victims. Legitimate victims. There are whites still alive in the south who still hold on to the "old ways." Are they capable of overcoming? Sure. But when you have attitudes like, "I'm not racist, I just don't think blacks and whites should mix," or "I'm not racist, but I'm not getting on a plane with someone with a towel wrapped around their head," we are back to my original point, who defines racism?
quote:
Until the local patrol cops got to know me driving through the neighborhood bordering the one i currently live in i got pulled over because "white people only come here for hookers or drugs". When i was in highschool and my first year in college i worked in a restaurant, the only white working there, I would give rides home after work to coworkers that lived on my way home so they wouldn't have to pay cab fair, some of them lived in "the projects" the first few times i dropped them off i was pulled over, once was handcuffed and had my car turned inside out. The facts are that there are certain patterns of behavior that are tip offs and police act on them. That is not to say that there isn't some racial profiling but much of it is criminal profiling.
I could tell you some stories too. Like the time I got pulled over by a white cop on Interstate 20 going through Mississippi with my family on the way to Georgia. Policeman asked everyone in the car to get their ID's ready. Had me get out and asked me a series of questions including how I could afford a car like I was driving. I was "nice" and told him what I did for a living and that I was retired army. He eventually let me go. Never gave me an explanation of why I was pulled over. Now to you, that was probably not racial profiling. To the cop, he was just doing his job. But to me, I saw things differently. Oh, and did I mention this was a white cop in Mississippi? Do you think my experience could potentially perpetuate a negative stereotype? Again, we've all had different experiences, from different perspectives and we all define racism differently.
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Alarms go off because some people are unable to accept that southern whites can move beyond their historical ignorance. That doesn't make anything supported in the south to be more likely to be racist. I have mentioned it many times before, my experience has been that we are more integrated in the south now than in many areas of the country.
Again, that's your experience from your perspective. There are blacks in the south would would say otherwise. Because you choose to define racism on your own terms, you're not going to accept certain phenomena as being inherently racist - like certain "criminal profiling" and the birther movement. It's your perspective and experieces that count - no one elses. I mentioned earlier the Mississippi Justice of the Peace who wouldn't marry the interracial couple who maintained he wasn't racist, but just didn't believe the races should mix. So I guess if you move the goal posts and amend the rule book and see things from only one perspective - yours - you can say southern whites have overcome and everybody who thinks otherwise is guilty of perpetuating negative, and I guess inaccurate, stereotypes.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
A hypothetical: If McCain would have won and a movement to de-legitimize his presidency based on his citizenship sprung up, and it was determined from a study from reliable source (like Fox News or World Net Daily or Drudge ) that most blacks questioned McCain's citizenship, would there not be at least some suspicions that these blacks were just mad because a black man didn't win?
McCain has been questioned the last two times he ran because he was born on a naval base out of the continental US.
You didn't answer the question.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 4:32:59 AM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Alarms go off because some people are unable to accept that southern whites can move beyond their historical ignorance.
History has shown that they have a habit of dragging their feet. Human psychology will show you that people don't just get over things.
Yeah, like imagine the reaction if someone of Middle Eastern ethnicity were to say that Americans need to "get over" 9-11 and quit looking at Middle Easterners on a plane with suspicion.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 4:35:55 AM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Alarms go off because some people are unable to accept that southern whites can move beyond their historical ignorance.
History has shown that they have a habit of dragging their feet. Human psychology will show you that people don't just get over things.
Yup. I dated a white man a few years back-- all of my dating relationships have been interracial; I had already learned to overlook people's hatred, but he couldn't handle the "old white" people staring at us and giving us looks. I never bothered giving them the satisfaction of getting upset, but he said that before he dated me he never knew people were still racist like that until he got it himself...and I have to live life like this anyway.  I think most of his hatred disappeared when we split ways.
And I bet that every one of those "old white" people who gave you looks would say something like, "I'm not racist, but...."
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 4:45:45 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Alarms go off because some people are unable to accept that southern whites can move beyond their historical ignorance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
History has shown that they have a habit of dragging their feet.
Here, we have a specific category, which I presume to be "southern whites".
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Human psychology will show you that people don't just get over things.
And now we have a very general category, presumably every human on earth. That is a very wide brush stroke, to say the very least.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 6:53:47 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
"Birtherism is prevalent among Southern White Republicans.
Is that documented evidence written down in a book or something, somewhere?
Yup.
Have you bothered to attempt to find that poll in the research 2000 archives yet?
No, I don't really care. I would expect a lawsuit if Kos used Research 2000's name without Research 2000 being involved. There isn't a lawsuit, so I'm going with "it's legit".
At least you are honest that you could care less about the validity of a poll as long as it agrees with you.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 7:19:17 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
So you're going to honestly tell me that you question the methodology of any poll? Even those you agree with?
Yes, I don't like getting duped by anyone, even people who agree with me. I generally don't even rely on polls as a good many of them that i have looked into their methodology were slanted.
quote:
The idiotic stereotype you're talking about is being racist, right? I say this because there are some "idiotic stereotypes" that white southerners seem rather proud of and actually promote.
So now you are accusing white southerners of promoting racism?
quote:
Racism is part of that history, which wasn't that long ago. There are blacks in the south still alive who were victims. Legitimate victims. There are whites still alive in the south who still hold on to the "old ways." Are they capable of overcoming? Sure. But when you have attitudes like, "I'm not racist, I just don't think blacks and whites should mix," or "I'm not racist, but I'm not getting on a plane with someone with a towel wrapped around their head," we are back to my original point, who defines racism?
Every day the old school racists are fewer and fewer because they die off, the younger and even many of the older generations are exponentially less likely to be racists but you can't see that. It is sad that successes are ignored in favor of negative stereotypes, it is even sadder that someone who claims to be the target of stereotypes has no problem fostering other stereotypes. It would benefit the world alot more if we were to recognize and champion the positive rather than harp on the remaining negative.
quote:
I could tell you some stories too. Like the time I got pulled over by a white cop on Interstate 20 going through Mississippi with my family on the way to Georgia. Policeman asked everyone in the car to get their ID's ready. Had me get out and asked me a series of questions including how I could afford a car like I was driving. I was "nice" and told him what I did for a living and that I was retired army. He eventually let me go. Never gave me an explanation of why I was pulled over. Now to you, that was probably not racial profiling. To the cop, he was just doing his job. But to me, I saw things differently. Oh, and did I mention this was a white cop in Mississippi? Do you think my experience could potentially perpetuate a negative stereotype? Again, we've all had different experiences, from different perspectives and we all define racism differently.
You did mention it was a white cop in mississippi, is it possible that your own stereotypes led you to believe that the cop did something improper? Like an old black lady i used to work with would tell her son when he whined that he couldn't get ahead because of racism, "son, if you look for an elephant hard enough you are guaranteed to find one".
quote:
Again, that's your experience from your perspective. There are blacks in the south would would say otherwise.
that they say something doesn't make it true.
quote:
Because you choose to define racism on your own terms, you're not going to accept certain phenomena as being inherently racist - like certain "criminal profiling" and the birther movement.
because i define racism as it should be defined there is no ambiguity. Racism is an overused word that comes out when someone feels slighted by whites more than when a white does something truly racist. The birther movement is fostered by a bunch of white wing morons who can't accept that they lost and the fact that the sitting president provided proof in a way that is suspect. Had Obama done what McCain did both times he was challenged and brought his proof of birth to the judge instead of having the lawsuits thrown out we wouldn't even have to discuss this. There is no INHERENT racism in the birther movement, there is perceived racism which many times is nothing racist at all. Racism has nothing to do with perspective, perceived racism may though.
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It's your perspective and experieces that count - no one elses. I mentioned earlier the Mississippi Justice of the Peace who wouldn't marry the interracial couple who maintained he wasn't racist, but just didn't believe the races should mix. So I guess if you move the goal posts and amend the rule book and see things from only one perspective - yours - you can say southern whites have overcome and everybody who thinks otherwise is guilty of perpetuating negative, and I guess inaccurate, stereotypes.
So one moronic, racist justice of the peace is indicative of the millions of white southerners? Does that mean that Mr. "Hymie Town" Jackson is indicative of all blacks? I have never claimed that there is no racism left but have commented that the definition of racism in today's world has broadened to such a point that just about anything a white person does that offends a minority is considered racist which does nothing to ease racial tensions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
You didn't answer the question.
I most certainly did answer the question, McCain was questioned and instead of making a stink about it which would have led to a similar controversy that we are seeing with Obama, he provided proof to the courts and moved on. So i don't have to work in the realm of hypotheticals, he actually was questioned abouty his birth place more than once and no one has bothered to make a stink about it.
< Message edited by _jjp_ -- 10/31/2009 7:27:46 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 7:27:33 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1886
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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There is nothing illegal about disliking someone based on the color of their skin.
There is nothing illegal about saying you don't believe the races should mix.
There are laws that keep you from hiring because of race.
There are laws that make interacial marriages legal.
There is a difference between what some thinks...and what someone does.
When you make thoughts illegal, when you make speech illegal, the slide into tyranny begins.
People are gonna dislike you for many weird reasons. People are weird. It does not matter what region of the country you are from. It does not matter what race you are.
The posters who said institutionalized racism was existant only a few years ago are correct. It takes time for people to change. Make all the impactful institutionalized rtacism illegal and educate people whp do not know that skin pigment makes no difference and the change will eventually come.
Forcing change through freedom limiting legislations will only further the racial divide.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 9:09:09 AM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
So you're going to honestly tell me that you question the methodology of any poll? Even those you agree with?
Yes, I don't like getting duped by anyone, even people who agree with me. I generally don't even rely on polls as a good many of them that i have looked into their methodology were slanted.
Great!
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
The idiotic stereotype you're talking about is being racist, right? I say this because there are some "idiotic stereotypes" that white southerners seem rather proud of and actually promote.
So now you are accusing white southerners of promoting racism?
Re-read the post again. You mentioned "idiotic stereotypes" attributed to southerners, racism is only one. I didn't want to get specific but when I say, "...there are some "idiotic stereotypes" that white southerners seem rather proud of and actually promote,", I was referring to stereotypes other than being racist. For example, are you familiar with comedian Jeff Foxworthy? Do you want specific examples? Some are actually "good" stereotypes, but not necessarily true (like white southerners are all polite, good cooks, etc.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Racism is part of that history, which wasn't that long ago. There are blacks in the south still alive who were victims. Legitimate victims. There are whites still alive in the south who still hold on to the "old ways." Are they capable of overcoming? Sure. But when you have attitudes like, "I'm not racist, I just don't think blacks and whites should mix," or "I'm not racist, but I'm not getting on a plane with someone with a towel wrapped around their head," we are back to my original point, who defines racism?
Every day the old school racists are fewer and fewer because they die off, the younger and even many of the older generations are exponentially less likely to be racists but you can't see that. It is sad that successes are ignored in favor of negative stereotypes, it is even sadder that someone who claims to be the target of stereotypes has no problem fostering other stereotypes. It would benefit the world alot more if we were to recognize and champion the positive rather than harp on the remaining negative.
I never claimed there hasn't been "progress". The 300 pound gorilla is now a 250 pound gorilla, while that may be "progress", its still a gorilla. We should thus ignore it because it has shown "progress?" As far as fostering other stereotypes, I never said I did. I've lived in the south most of my adult life and love it here. I was just pointing out that stereotypes exist and for the most part, there's nothing you can do about them. I can also tell you a story of my car stopping on me on a remote highway in Llano, Texas and this white "Cowgirl" lady with a pickup truck full of kids (another stereotype?) stopped and went home and got a chain and pulled me to town where I got help. To be honest with you, when I saw the pickup truck stop, being a black man in west Texas, I was kinda apprehensive (another stereotype?). That lady with her kids could have been reluctant to stop too but she wasn't. Maybe it was her instincts, maybe she just was naive, but I think this lady looked beyond my color and saw my need, and I'm glad she did. There are lots of good people in the world of all races and nationalities, but stereotypes exist and that's just life.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
I could tell you some stories too. Like the time I got pulled over by a white cop on Interstate 20 going through Mississippi with my family on the way to Georgia. Policeman asked everyone in the car to get their ID's ready. Had me get out and asked me a series of questions including how I could afford a car like I was driving. I was "nice" and told him what I did for a living and that I was retired army. He eventually let me go. Never gave me an explanation of why I was pulled over. Now to you, that was probably not racial profiling. To the cop, he was just doing his job. But to me, I saw things differently. Oh, and did I mention this was a white cop in Mississippi? Do you think my experience could potentially perpetuate a negative stereotype? Again, we've all had different experiences, from different perspectives and we all define racism differently.
You did mention it was a white cop in mississippi, is it possible that your own stereotypes led you to believe that the cop did something improper? Like an old black lady i used to work with would tell her son when he whined that he couldn't get ahead because of racism, "son, if you look for an elephant hard enough you are guaranteed to find one".
And if you look at an elephant hard enough and want it to be a giraffe, you'll find one of those too. The policeman never explained why he stopped me. See what I'm talking about? Okay, yeah, he had a good explanation but MY racism caused me to fail to see the cop was really looking out for me. Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Again, that's your experience from your perspective. There are blacks in the south would would say otherwise.
that they say something doesn't make it true.
But when you say something it is?
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Because you choose to define racism on your own terms, you're not going to accept certain phenomena as being inherently racist - like certain "criminal profiling" and the birther movement.
because i define racism as it should be defined there is no ambiguity.
Which is?
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Racism is an overused word that comes out when someone feels slighted by whites more than when a white does something truly racist.
Is this your definition of racism "as it should be defined" with "no ambiguity"?
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The birther movement is fostered by a bunch of white wing morons who can't accept that they lost and the fact that the sitting president provided proof in a way that is suspect.
Was that a Freudian slip? 
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Had Obama done what McCain did both times he was challenged and brought his proof of birth to the judge instead of having the lawsuits thrown out we wouldn't even have to discuss this. There is no INHERENT racism in the birther movement, there is perceived racism which many times is nothing racist at all. Racism has nothing to do with perspective, perceived racism may though.
Your opinion.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
It's your perspective and experieces that count - no one elses. I mentioned earlier the Mississippi Justice of the Peace who wouldn't marry the interracial couple who maintained he wasn't racist, but just didn't believe the races should mix. So I guess if you move the goal posts and amend the rule book and see things from only one perspective - yours - you can say southern whites have overcome and everybody who thinks otherwise is guilty of perpetuating negative, and I guess inaccurate, stereotypes.
So one moronic, racist justice of the peace is indicative of the millions of white southerners?
Nah, but he doesn't help you that much.
quote:
Does that mean that Mr. "Hymie Town" Jackson is indicative of all blacks?
Nope, but he dosen't help us that much.
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I have never claimed that there is no racism left but have commented that the definition of racism in today's world has broadened to such a point that just about anything a white person does that offends a minority is considered racist which does nothing to ease racial tensions.
Since you believe racism has nothing to do with perspective, there's no need to comment here.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
You didn't answer the question.
I most certainly did answer the question, McCain was questioned and instead of making a stink about it which would have led to a similar controversy that we are seeing with Obama, he provided proof to the courts and moved on. So i don't have to work in the realm of hypotheticals, he actually was questioned abouty his birth place more than once and no one has bothered to make a stink about it.
I see this is pointless. Obama did provide proof of his citizenship. It just wasn't accepted. There was a newspaper announcement. It just wasn't accepted. McCain's proof WAS accepted. There never was an organized movement to de-legitimize him as Senator, and we'll never know if it would have been one to do so if he were elected President. But I submit to you that if he were elected President, and such a movement did spring up, and people refused to accept the proof he provided and instead relied on obscure statements from old ladies (i.e. Obama's Kenyan grandmother), AND it was determined that a large number of black folks were involved in this movement, that there would be those on the right claiming that this was all because the black guy didn't win. But since you refuse to deal in hypotheticals you're excused from this assignment.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 10:22:06 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymaiI never claimed there hasn't been "progress". The 300 pound gorilla is now a 250 pound gorilla, while that may be "progress", its still a gorilla.
The gorilla is a chimp compared to what it was.
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I can also tell you a story of my car stopping on me on a remote highway in Llano, Texas
There is a great barbecue joint in Llano
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
because i define racism as it should be defined there is no ambiguity.
Which is?
try dictionary.com, it is a good starting place
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quote:
The birther movement is fostered by a bunch of white wing morons who can't accept that they lost and the fact that the sitting president provided proof in a way that is suspect.
Was that a Freudian slip?
no i put it in there as a bit of comedy to lighten the mood
quote:
Since you believe racism has nothing to do with perspective, there's no need to comment here.
That is correct, racism has NOTHING to do with perspective and that is where the push for racial equality has hit a wall. Racism is the belief that a race is necessarily better than another race and the mistreatment of other races based on that belief. The fact that you feel slighted does not make something racist, the intent of the one slighting you is the ONLY thing that can make an act racist. You will be offended by whites, that doesn't necessarily make their acts racist, they can be if they are offending you based on their belief that they are superior to you because of race.
quote:
I see this is pointless. Obama did provide proof of his citizenship. It just wasn't accepted. There was a newspaper announcement. It just wasn't accepted. McCain's proof WAS accepted.
I never said that the birthers were right, i simply spelled out their claims. Oh and McCains proof was accepted because he submitted the actual document to a court instead of taking pictures to put on a website.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 11:08:22 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Yeah, like imagine the reaction if someone of Middle Eastern ethnicity were to say that Americans need to "get over" 9-11 and quit looking at Middle Easterners on a plane with suspicion.
Well its been 150 since slavery was over, and nearly a half century since the segregation laws were overturned.
So the USA should be over 9-11 somewhere time between now and 2041.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 11:45:40 AM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymaiI
never claimed there hasn't been "progress". The 300 pound gorilla is now a 250 pound gorilla, while that may be "progress", its still a gorilla.
The gorilla is a chimp compared to what it was.
Good analogy. But remember chimps are cute but they can still be dangerous and mischievious.
quote:
There is a great barbecue joint in Llano
Growing up in Austin, one of the things I miss since coming to Georgia is the Texas barbeque (unless I do it myself). They have no idea what real barbeque is here.
quote:
That is correct, racism has NOTHING to do with perspective and that is where the push for racial equality has hit a wall. Racism is the belief that a race is necessarily better than another race and the mistreatment of other races based on that belief. The fact that you feel slighted does not make something racist, the intent of the one slighting you is the ONLY thing that can make an act racist. You will be offended by whites, that doesn't necessarily make their acts racist, they can be if they are offending you based on their belief that they are superior to you because of race.
So let me get this straight, unless that person admits that their intent was racist, or one has the ability to read that person's mind to determine that their intent was racist, there is no racist act?
quote:
I never said that the birthers were right, i simply spelled out their claims. Oh and McCains proof was accepted because he submitted the actual document to a court instead of taking pictures to put on a website.
Well, I don't have my original birth certificate and two of my children who were born overseas don't either. I have certified copies (one of my son born at Walter Reed Army Hospital in D.C. is on a 5 x 7 card) which were acceptable everywhere, including getting passports. I can't recall ever needing to furnish my "original" birth certificate for anything and don't know if the State of Texas would release it anyway. Since I was able to get married, join the army, and get a passport with "only" a certified copy, I'm not sure, no, I'm certain that if a group of idiots who don't matter questioned my citizenship and demanded that I furnish my original birth certifcate, just to satisfy them, I would refuse, too. Whenever the court orders Obama to release the original, I'm sure he will. Call it arrogance if you will, but based on the acceptance criteria set forth by law, he's done all he's required to do to prove his citizenship and eligibility to serve as POTUS. Just like McCain's proof was accepted, so was Obama's - by those whose acceptance counts.
< Message edited by jaymai -- 10/31/2009 12:00:56 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 4:18:15 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Good analogy. But remember chimps are cute but they can still be dangerous and mischievious.
but pretending the chimp is a gorilla does nothing useful
quote:
So let me get this straight, unless that person admits that their intent was racist, or one has the ability to read that person's mind to determine that their intent was racist, there is no racist act?
Not at all, but without racist intent an act can not be racist regardless of what you feel.
quote:
Well, I don't have my original birth certificate and two of my children who were born overseas don't either. I have certified copies (one of my son born at Walter Reed Army Hospital in D.C. is on a 5 x 7 card) which were acceptable everywhere, including getting passports. I can't recall ever needing to furnish my "original" birth certificate for anything and don't know if the State of Texas would release it anyway. Since I was able to get married, join the army, and get a passport with "only" a certified copy, I'm not sure, no, I'm certain that if a group of idiots who don't matter questioned my citizenship and demanded that I furnish my original birth certifcate, just to satisfy them, I would refuse, too. Whenever the court orders Obama to release the original, I'm sure he will. Call it arrogance if you will, but based on the acceptance criteria set forth by law, he's done all he's required to do to prove his citizenship and eligibility to serve as POTUS. Just like McCain's proof was accepted, so was Obama's - by those whose acceptance counts.
I never said anyone need the original. The difference between the two instances is that McCain provided a paper copy of a birth certificate instead of fighting to have the lawsuits thrown out. The way Obama handled the birther conspiracy only added fuel to the fire of the conspiracy.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 6:18:20 PM
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LilMaryB
Posts: 255
Joined: 4/22/2009
Status: offline
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West Monroe woman charged with simple battery
A West Monroe police affidavit said Hodges claimed a woman cut in front of her at Walmart's return desk, and the woman's daughter lunged at her.
The affidavit said witnesses heard Hodges yell a racial epithet at the woman and say, "You will respect your elders, especially since I'm white."
http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20091003/NEWS01/910030318/West-Monroe-woman-charged-with-simple-battery
Yet a few of you on this forum still think racism doesn't exist and everyone is playing victim... 
< Message edited by LilMaryB -- 10/31/2009 6:36:33 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 6:26:10 PM
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jaymai
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Good analogy. But remember chimps are cute but they can still be dangerous and mischievious.
but pretending the chimp is a gorilla does nothing useful
Alright already! You made your point! 
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
So let me get this straight, unless that person admits that their intent was racist, or one has the ability to read that person's mind to determine that their intent was racist, there is no racist act?
Not at all, but without racist intent an act can not be racist regardless of what you feel.
Okay, so since nobody but a fool would admit racist intent, and since it dosen't matter what the "victim" feels....congratulations! We've just eliminated racism! Now lets try to eliminate world hunger the same way.
quote:
I never said anyone need the original. The difference between the two instances is that McCain provided a paper copy of a birth certificate instead of fighting to have the lawsuits thrown out. The way Obama handled the birther conspiracy only added fuel to the fire of the conspiracy.
I don't think he's "fighting" too hard. The birthers have no case. They're the ones fighting. The fact that the lawsuits have all been thrown out shows just how frivolous and baseless they are. Obama did not break any laws. He did everything he was legally required to do to prove his eligibility to serve as POTUS. The birther conspiracy is the birther's problem, not his. The burden of proof is on them, not the president.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 6:31:54 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
Okay, so since nobody but a fool would admit racist intent, and since it dosen't matter what the "victim" feels....congratulations! We've just eliminated racism! Now lets try to eliminate world hunger the same way.
you miss the point completely, i am not saying that racism does not exist. I am saying that how you feel about bad things that happen to you at the hands of another race is not the deciding factor in what is racist. If a white person does something with no intetions of racism whatsoever but a minority feels that it is racist that does not make that act racist.
quote:
I don't think he's "fighting" too hard. The birthers have no case. They're the ones fighting. The fact that the lawsuits have all been thrown out shows just how frivolous and baseless they are.
I never said he was fighting hard, only that his methods fueled the fire.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 10:07:44 PM
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LilMaryB
Posts: 255
Joined: 4/22/2009
Status: offline
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Wisconsin Uw-River Falls / Campus rally, march to rebuff racial threat
Threats targeting minorities, written on a bathroom stall, have galvanized a college campus to demonstrate its opposition to racism.
Prompted by graffiti found Sunday night that implied violence against Asian and African-American students, University of Wisconsin-River Falls will hold activities Monday protesting bigotry.
"We will not tolerate hate," student leader Nikki Shonoiki said. Shonoiki, of Minneapolis, organized a rally and march that will start at noon Monday in front of the University Center to show support for minority students.
"This is the environment that we are going to set," Shonoiki said.
Student groups have also asked the campus to wear red, a school color, Monday in a show of solidarity. More than 1,600 people said they would participate after Shonoiki made a Facebook event page promoting the activities.
A police investigation began after graffiti was found in the men's bathroom of the Chalmer Davee Library building on Oct. 25. The graffiti read: "The time of destruction is near. Blacks + Asians 11-2-09."
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_13681662
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2009 10:19:08 PM
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LilMaryB
Posts: 255
Joined: 4/22/2009
Status: offline
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Hotel owner tells Hispanic workers to change names
TAOS, N.M. — Larry Whitten marched into this northern New Mexico town in late July on a mission: resurrect a failing hotel.
The tough-talking former Marine immediately laid down some new rules. Among them, he forbade the Hispanic workers at the run-down, Southwestern adobe-style hotel from speaking Spanish in his presence (he thought they'd be talking about him), and ordered some to Anglicize their names.
No more Martin (Mahr-TEEN). It was plain-old Martin. No more Marcos. Now it would be Mark.
Whitten's management style had worked for him as he's turned around other distressed hotels he bought in recent years across the country.
The 63-year-old Texan, however, wasn't prepared for what followed.
His rules and his firing of several Hispanic employees angered his employees and many in this liberal enclave of 5,000 residents at the base of the Sangre de Cristo mountains, where the most alternative of lifestyles can find a home and where Spanish language, culture and traditions have a long and revered history.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iTg48jHVK4WilpXtidPMTChzpByAD9BIKP282
After he arrived, Whitten met with the employees. He says he immediately noticed that they were hostile to his management style and worried they might start talking about him in Spanish.
"Because of that, I asked the people in my presence to speak only English because I do not understand Spanish," Whitten says. "I've been working 24 years in Texas and we have a lot of Spanish people there. I've never had to ask anyone to speak only English in front of me because I've never had a reason to."
Some employees were fired, Whitten says, because they were hostile and insubordinate. He says they called him "a white (N-word)."
Fired hotel manager Kathy Archuleta says the workers initially tried to adjust to his style. "We had already gone through four or five owners before him, so we knew what to expect," Archuleta says. "I told (the workers) we needed to give him a chance."
Then Whitten told some employees he was changing their Spanish first names. Whitten says it's a routine practice at his hotels to change first names of employees who work the front desk phones or deal directly with guests if their names are difficult to understand or pronounce.
"It has nothing to do with racism. I'm not doing it for any reason other than for the satisfaction of my guests, because people calling from all over America don't know the Spanish accents or the Spanish culture or Spanish anything," Whitten says.
Martin Gutierrez, another fired employee, says he felt disrespected when he was told to use the unaccented Martin as his name. He says he told Whitten that Spanish was spoken in New Mexico before English. "He told me he didn't care what I thought because this was his business," Gutierrez says.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/WireStory?id=8916317&page=1
< Message edited by LilMaryB -- 10/31/2009 10:29:18 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2009 3:23:58 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jaymai
I mentioned earlier the Mississippi Justice of the Peace who wouldn't marry the interracial couple who maintained he wasn't racist, but just didn't believe the races should mix.
Are you sure you aren't referring to the incident near Hammond, Lousiana? Actually I think it was in Hammond or Ponchatoula, but either way, I'm not far off.
http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tangipahoa+Parish/stories
Hammond happens to be the location of the town called Sparta, where the TV show "In the Heat of the Night" was filmed. A woman I met in Hammond ran into Carroll O'Connor more than once at the local restaurant. Mississippi isn't that far north but the show was still filmed mainly at the headquarters in Louisiana.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005279/
If this same thing happened in Mississippi, I'm not aware of it. F.y.i., I was in Hammond after Hurricane Katrina for a little while. Some interracial dating is not that uncommon there as it is obviously not that uncommon everywhere else.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2009 3:28:52 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LilMaryB
Hotel owner tells Hispanic workers to change names
TAOS, N.M. — Larry Whitten marched into this northern New Mexico town in late July on a mission: resurrect a failing hotel.
I already started a thread on that topic.
Who_Owns_The_Hotel
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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