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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 1:00:46 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 809
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Hmm...believe Adam, who actually works AT and WITH IHOP, or people who feel hurt by IHOP and may be out to slander it....hmm that is a choice to figure out.
Do you expect people who have been "hurt by IHOP" or any other ministry to just be silent? Why not "believe" that both are telling the truth as they know it?
If people were "hurt" and as a result are lying and slandering the people who "hurt" them to get some sort of revenge, then that is wrong 100% of the time and should be stopped and condemned on the spot. And yes, I WILL chose to believe Adam, in his stating that IHOP does NOT endorse youth "cutting off" contact with their parents. I will say this again, Adam is NOT the only person I know from IHOP. And living IN Kansas City right now, it would be VERY easy for me to get several more people to testify to this fact.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Listen, those of you who have been apart of this thread for a while, know that few have stronger doctorinal problems with what is taught at IHOP. That being said, I also will stand strong against any false, slanderous, malicious, hateful attacks against IHOP. Let us not forget that I personally know and am friends with 2 people who are active members, and have a few more that would attend regularly if they lived in the Kansas City area. While I know that their theology is off on several things, I also KNOW that they are Children of God. And I will NOT have anyone even suggesting otherwise. As I said, for me as a Baptist, IHOP is no different to me then say the Lutheran Church.
Tripping to Heaven, visits from angels, "prophetic" direction, and quotes that contradict Scripture - this doesn't separate IHOP from other churches in your mind?
And how about pedobaptism, transubstantiation, Full Pre-Terism, ect. I consider all these to contradict scripture grossly but I do not condemn people who believe in these as anything but Christians who differ theologically from me.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
The facts are that IHOP DOES teach the true Christ Jesus, they DO teach the core fundementals as every other orthodox Christian deonmination does. It is on the SECONDARY issues that they, as I believe, have problems. And that does NOT warrant the slander and malice that is thrown towards them. Or do you attack other orthodox denominations like you attack IHOP? For if that is also the case, it would be you who are wrong with God, attacking your brothers and sisters in Christ for no reason
Message board discussions are over pretty fast if everyone has the same point of view. I have and do talk with ministers and others the same way I would discuss here and there is no problem with that. As far as core fundamentals, it's like a friend of mine heard in the Bahamas, "Mahn, evrybohdy lohves Jezus!" Yeah, but then what?
I am not saying dont debate theology. What I am saying is dont start condemning people because they have a different theology then you. Just because they believe secondary issues differently does NOT mean that they are not Christian. You see this is the problem with alot of you out there. You cant separate the primary theology issues from the secondary ones. Let me spell it out for you. Primary issues, such as the deity and humanity of Christ, nature of the Trinity, ect, are the major ones in which if someone rejects orthodoxy they are not true Christians. Secondary issues, such as ecclesiology, eschatology, the nature and use of Spiritual gifts, ect.; are NOT salvation breaking issues. While it is important, in the right time, to debate and talk about these issues, they are not means of, or signs of salvation. As such, the people at IHOP, ARE orthodox in that they agree with every other protestant, Lutheran, and dare I say, RCC and Eastern Orthodoxy; on the primary issues. But just as all those under this primary orthodoxy differ on many secondary issues, so too does IHOP differ from us. That is NOT a denial of the true Christ.
quote:
- Latter Rain theology is NOT orthodox Christianity (It was deemed heresy by the Assemblies of God in the 1940's).
- Kingdom Now theology is NOT orthodox Christianity
- Dominionist Theology is NOT orthodox Christianity
These movements are supported by Mike Bickle as evidenced in this quote:
"I believe we're in a time of history where the Lord wants there to be a significant transfer of wealth...I don't mean millions, I mean billions of dollars, being transfered into the hands of the end time worship and prayer movement on a global level. Much more than billions. We're talking about the whole world, and we need to posture ourselves from a biblical point of view to be part of that. And its something that I'm not content that maybe a few of us understand it; it's bigger than this. I want us as a spiritual family to understand what hour we're living in and what is on the Lord's heart related to the end time worship movement and related to supernatural finances."
Those abberant theologies do not teach the true Jesus Christ. I respectfully suggest you do a little more research on what they do teach.
So I suppose you reject and ignore what IHOP says HERE...
Oh more research? I guess actually talking with personal friends who go to IHOP, being a seminary student myself, having personal experience in churches with goals similar to IHOP's, I guess that all does not count right. You do realize, that just because I disagree with you, does not mean I have not done my research. Could it be, that I am knowledgeable on the subject, and I came to a different conclusion than you did? Oh the humanity of it all!
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 1:29:16 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1558
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
So I suppose you reject and ignore what IHOP says HERE...
As a matter of fact...Yes, I do reject it.
Mike Bickle's quote in post #500 is in direct contradiction to the statements on that page:
From his page:
Dominion Theology
WE AFFIRM that God’s purpose is for Jesus to come back to fully establish His Kingdom rule over all the Earth. After the Second Coming, the saints will rule the Earth under the leadership of Jesus Christ when He sets up His government on the Earth in the Millennial Kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:2; Revelation 5:10 and 20:3–6). We believe that believers in this age are called to serve Jesus in politics and to help establish righteousness and justice in legislation. We do NOT have the assurance that ALL laws and governments will be changed until after the Second Coming of Jesus to establish His Millennial Kingdom.
WE DENY the Church will take over all the governments of the Earth before the return of Christ.
Explanation: some teach and believe that all governments on the Earth will be transformed by the Church before the Second Coming of Jesus.
From his MOUTH:
"I believe we're in a time of history where the Lord wants there to be a significant transfer of wealth...I don't mean millions, I mean billions of dollars, being transfered into the hands of the end time worship and prayer movement on a global level. Much more than billions. We're talking about the whole world, and we need to posture ourselves from a biblical point of view to be part of that. And its something that I'm not content that maybe a few of us understand it; it's bigger than this. I want us as a spiritual family to understand what hour we're living in and what is on the Lord's heart related to the end time worship movement and related to supernatural finances.
Words on a website mean NOTHING to me. Mike Bickle has a history of being a proponent of this theology and shares the stage with many others that also support it. It is well documented.
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 2:19:59 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
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quote:
Stephanos: So I suppose you reject and ignore what IHOP says HERE...
quote:
Soxfan: As a matter of fact...Yes, I do reject it.
As do I. I can post a statement on a website that says:
"I now believe the sky is blue and not flaming orange like I used to believe."
Then I go to a conference and announce:
"The sky is flaming orange!"
So what happens to my first statement? It's null and void. Likewise, Bickle has made his own denial of Dominionism statements null and void because the 'Transfer of wealth' teaching IS Dominionism.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 2:29:24 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 809
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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I am struggling with what in the world you dislike about the quote from Mike Bickle you gave? If we are living in end-times (personally I do not think the tribulation is going to be in my lifetime) I TOO would want to be apart of a church that is preparing believers for the Second Coming, and leading the charge to reach the lost before it is too late.
Nothing in that quote you gave, says ANYTHING about Mike Bickle an IHOP believing that the Second Comming will ONLY come because they are doing something. They are saying that they want to be APART of the preparation OF His coming. And frankly, any one who does not want to help prepare the way, I have a hard time seeing as a child of Christ Jesus. I say again, NO WHERE IN THAT QUOTE or ANY of IHOP's teachings do they claim to be the soul reason for the Second Coming. They are trying to prepare the way, by reaching the lost and training believers for when the Second Coming DOES happen. And that is something that ALL Christians should do!
Of all the doctorinal issues I have with IHOP, eschatology is not one of them!
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 3:14:03 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
I say again, NO WHERE IN THAT QUOTE or ANY of IHOP's teachings do they claim to be the soul reason for the Second Coming.
I wonder if you looked at the CBN report on youtube I posted earlier. "...he says it's absolutely necessary if Christians ever want to see Jesus return." The link is in post #461. As you say they do not say it's the sole reason, however, the issue is, is establishing prayer houses with 24/7 prayer actually doing something vital which we must if we "ever want to see Jesus return". I do not agree that we must do anything to facilitate the return of Christ.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 3:21:04 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
Stephanos: I am struggling with what in the world you dislike about the quote from Mike Bickle you gave?
Actually, stateofgrace posted the quote and I commented on it. The problem lies in the fact that the 'transfer of wealth' teaching is from a very specific source, which is Dominionism, and not the Bible. Here's just a few examples of where else it's found:
New Apostolic Reformation leader C. Peter Wagner:
"I think the time is ripe for those of us who are apostles to begin to understand the crucial role we have in God’s plan to release the wealth of the wicked for the advance of the kingdom of God. Chuck Pierce and I have been talking a lot about this in recent days. Some of you would have received his important 5-page intercessory memo of August 1: “31-Day Prayer Focus to Release Wealth.” Chuck also has a strategic chapter, “The Transference of Wealth,” in his book The Future War of the Church (Regal Books).
As I argue in my book, Spheres of Authority, we now live in the second apostolic age. Apostles are the ones who understand this new wineskin of missions and who know how to advance the kingdom by multiplying churches and transforming society."
Elijah list:
Therefore, it important to understand that while God means to release the wealth, satan is releasing His strategies to keep the wealth "locked" that we are working to "unlock." God wants to open locked gates in '08. In order to possess the gate of wealth to, among other things, develop plans to eradicate systemic poverty, we need to develop new structures of intercession to do the spiritual warfare necessary to transfer wealth.
Among other things, here are some forms that need to take place:
1. New prayer movements with a focus on marketplace intercession.
2. More businesses hiring intercessors to pray for their workplace.
3. Focused intercession and training for specific targeted sectors of wealth and business. Intercessors need to be trained to understand business so that they can pray intelligently.
Elijah list, Dutch Sheets:
Through a season of tremendous warfare in November and December, as well as confirmation from many key leaders, God has exposed the spirit of Baal as one of the strongmen--perhaps the strongman--over America.
Baal-hamon, one of Baal's names, means "the lord of wealth or abundance." Chuck Pierce believes, and I agree, that this is the principality warring against the great transfer of wealth to the Church. You must war against this spirit to see your inheritance released. Claim Jeremiah 51:44 (Bel in this verse is Baal).
Extreme Prophetic:
The Lord revealed that it was the spirit of mammon that was a controlling principality over the region we were in. He directed me to battle it by preaching in the area of financial breakthrough. I shared revelations that Taiwan's destiny is found in the wealth of the Lord, in wealth transfer, and in wealth release to the nations. I called the people to freedom from the influence of this demonic entity, and to repossess and occupy the territory it has stolen in their lives and the church. The anointing was strong, and we saw all kinds of breakthrough and deliverance. Praise God!
We gave the people instruction on how to rise up in the Word of God above the dragon's influence. We made decrees into the heavens concerning the rule of the Lord in Taiwan, as well as the release and transfer of wealth being brought into the Kingdom for His purposes. The decrees of God's Word were like swords being thrown at the dragon. It was a mighty battle in the spirit and we felt enormous breakthrough and victory!
Gold dust fell and covered the hands of many believers in the meeting. Signs and wonders broke out. One young man threw an altar cloth up into the air in excitement and it lifted up through the air by supernatural force to a 30-foot high ceiling and laid flat on the ceiling tiles for a long time.
All of the above is complete unBiblical Dominionist garbage, and Bickle's statement is no different.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 3:30:14 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 809
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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So i suppose you find problems with say the SBC's Lottie Moon Christmas Offering, where churches ask their members to give extra offerings to the Lottie Moon fund which goes to help IMB missions around the world. Is that wrong? I find it shocking that any Christian would be against a church saying that Christians DO need to give up some of their wealth (especially Christians here in the United States) and give it to the poor around the world, both to feed their earthly needs (food, water, shelter, clothes, schools, medicine, ect) as well as their spiritual needs (missionaries, evanglism, church planting, ect). It WOULD be wonderful if BILLIONS of dollars flowed out from America, through our churches to the rest of the world. Not because we are forced to by some government, but because we want to HELP people and bring them to Christ Jesus! What on earth is so wrong with that!!
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:10:38 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1568
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The "transfer of wealth" that Mike Bickle was referring to was basically into IHOP, not to the poor of the world (unless one is considering the raise-their-own-support "intercessory missionary" IHOP staffers as "the poor of the world").
In that message, I don't think Mike Bickle ever even referred to "the church" or "the body of Christ" or something similar. It was always "the end times prayer movement" or "the end times prayer and worship movement."
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 1/23/2008 4:16:40 PM >
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:18:01 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1568
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Nothing in that quote you gave, says ANYTHING about Mike Bickle an IHOP believing that the Second Comming will ONLY come because they are doing something. They are saying that they want to be APART of the preparation OF His coming. And frankly, any one who does not want to help prepare the way...
Nope. Go back and look at that quote carefully.
....and this house of prayer will be raised up in all the ends of the earth, with the prophetic song from heaven being released to it, and this house of prayer will lead to the second coming of Jesus. Jesus is not coming back to earth in a vacuum, He's coming back in response to global concerts of prayer that never end. He's coming back in answer to a worship movement that fills the earth.
Words are important. If that is not what Mike Bickle meant, he should not have worded it that way.
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 1/23/2008 4:26:20 PM >
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:19:59 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
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Stephanos:
quote:
I find it shocking that any Christian would be against a church saying that Christians DO need to give up some of their wealth (especially Christians here in the United States) and give it to the poor around the world...
Did you bother to read the quotes?? They're talking about transferring the wealth of the world into THEIR hands. Look at Bickle's own statement:
"I believe we're in a time of history where the Lord wants there to be a significant transfer of wealth...I don't mean millions, I mean billions of dollars, being transfered INTO THE HANDS OF THE END TIME WORSHIP AND PRAYER MOVEMENT on a global level. Much more than billions. We're talking about the WHOLE WORLD, and we need to posture ourselves from a biblical point of view to be part of that."
If you don't know anything about Dominionism, it would be helpful to read up on it so you can understand the concepts at work here.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 1/23/2008 4:26:20 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:23:45 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 809
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
The "transfer of wealth" that Mike Bickle was referring to was basically into IHOP, not to the poor of the world (unless one is considering the raise-their-own-support "intercessory missionary" IHOP staffers as "the poor of the world").
In that message, I don't think Mike Bickle ever even referred to "the church" or "the body of Christ" or something similar. It was always "the end times prayer movement" or "the end times prayer and worship movement."
And do you actually think IHOP would keep it for themselves to live in mansions and drive BMW's? So their cause is different than say IMB's cause. Does it mean that it is wrong? Do you condemn IMB for asking for money to be used as they see fit? Why thus do you condemn IHOP for asking for money to use as they see fit. Again, unless you can prove otherwise, I do believe IHOP uses all money they receive to benefit their ministry. What Christian denomination, church, orginization, ect, does not do the same?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:26:21 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
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Stephanos:
Straight up: Where does the Bible teach that God will transfer the wealth of the whole world into an end time prayer movement's hands? And Bickle isn't asking for the wealth of the world. He's expecting it.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 1/23/2008 4:33:46 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:30:56 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 809
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Where in the Bible does it each that God will pour funds into giant missionary orginizations? Answer? Oh it doesn't? Gee there goes the IMB and NAMB.
I ask you this....Straight up. What is wrong with a Christian orginization from using money they are given to further their ministry? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT!
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:45:54 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Stephanos:
Straight up: Where does the Bible teach that God will transfer the wealth of the whole world into an end time prayer movement's hands? And Bickle isn't asking for the wealth of the world. He's expecting it.
lw9, it looks like the only defense for Bickle is to say that he doesn't believe what he says he does. I read the jazz about the "joseph company" on IHOP's site last week--it seems the idea is that they have a "calling" to facilitate this transfer of wealth.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:50:16 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
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stephanos:
Listen to the entire video.
I can't help much if you're not going to do a bit of homework yourself.
In the video, Bickle himself attempts to justify his 'transfer of wealth' teaching by using unrelated and out of context scriptural examples. So, yes, I expect to see scripture used in context when one is claiming that God wants to transfer the wealth of the WHOLE WORLD into a prayer movement as part of the end times plan and they point to the Bible to support it.
I'm not going to address IMB or NAMB because I don't know anything about them.
As for the money, it's one thing to pray for financial help. It's a completely different animal to claim that God is going to transfer the wealth of the world into a particular movement.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 4:53:04 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
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quote:
wintery: I read the jazz about the "joseph company" on IHOP's site last week--it seems the idea is that they have a "calling" to facilitate this transfer of wealth.
Thanks wintery. I will take a look into that when I get a chance.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 5:20:42 PM
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stephanos
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Is it wrong for a orginization to provide for its members, when their members forgo paying careers to work for the ministry? lw9 you claim to know nothing about the IMB or NAMB (which is a little odd seeing as they are two of the largest missionary organizations based here in the United States), then would it surprise you to know what the IMB and NAMB takes funds donated from SBC churches, and uses part of them, to allow their missionaries to live, eat, ect. Thats right, some career missionaries get their sole source of income from the IMB or NAMB. Is that wrong?
So IHOP has felt they are called to have a 24 hour prayer mission. Some people, are called to do this instead of work other jobs. Is it wrong for IHOP to pay them so they can eat, live, ect? I should hope not.
So then, if the mission of IHOP is to start a 24 hour prayer mission, whose primary goal is to pray for, over the world in advance of the coming Second Coming; if it is their hope for more and more people to be apart of this prayer mission, some of whom called to give up their jobs to help; then is it so wrong to believe that God will provide for them if it is something they are called to do?
I personally think that the Joseph analogy is a good one. For truly God DID use Joseph to set aside food and supplies for the upcoming famine that ravaged the Holy Land.
Finally, even if IHOP's eschatology is wrong in this instance, that God will send them finances, how is this a primary theological issue. How does this ruin the gospel any more than things like pedobaptism, transubstantiation, ect?
Need I remind you all that IHOP is NOT WOF or Prosperity Gospel? Need I point out that IHOP DOES teach Christ Jesus crucified for our sins?
The problems you have with IHOP are NOT critical issues in that the salvation of IHOP members is at stake. The problems you have with IHOP would be the same with any other protestant denomination you have! So why all the hate? And YES it IS hate!
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 5:54:41 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 2838
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Is it wrong for a orginization to provide for its members, when their members forgo paying careers to work for the ministry? lw9 you claim to know nothing about the IMB or NAMB (which is a little odd seeing as they are two of the largest missionary organizations based here in the United States), then would it surprise you to know what the IMB and NAMB takes funds donated from SBC churches, and uses part of them, to allow their missionaries to live, eat, ect. Thats right, some career missionaries get their sole source of income from the IMB or NAMB. Is that wrong?
Interesting... One would think that I live a sheltered existence in an out-of-touch backwater hamlet from statements made about me in another thread, but even, dunce that I am, I know about IMB and NAMB. Makes me wonder about self-proclaimed know it alls and their FACTS...
Then again, my pastor served on the NAMB before coming to my church so I should know about it. Still, I knew about both IMB & NAMB 20 or so years ago.
I'll bet some folk might think Lottie Moon was a cult leader and Annie Armstrong a feminist just from Googling certain phrases...
I feel so much better having read that post.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 6:14:56 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
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Stephanos:
quote:
Is it wrong for IHOP to pay them so they can eat, live, ect? I should hope not.
What does that have to do with the 'Transfer of wealth of the world into our hands' teaching?
quote:
I personally think that the Joseph analogy is a good one. For truly God DID use Joseph to set aside food and supplies for the upcoming famine that ravaged the Holy Land.
How exactly does that support God transferring the wealth of the world into the hands of an end times prayer movement? I can find no valid support in the scriptures for such an idea.
quote:
Need I remind you all that IHOP is NOT WOF or Prosperity Gospel?
Do you understand that WOF is simply another offshoot of Dominionism? Which is worse... a group that teaches God wants you to be rich, or a group that teaches God wants them to be rich and exalts themselves as an end times prayer movement who will usher in the Second Coming? I certainly can't decide.
quote:
Finally, even if IHOP's eschatology is wrong in this instance, that God will send them finances, how is this a primary theological issue. How does this ruin the gospel any more than things like pedobaptism, transubstantiation, ect?
We're back to Dominionism, which is at the heart of the 'transfer of wealth' teaching. It's a dangerous theology, and I strongly suggest you study up on it. I can't force you to do some research and learn about what it really entails. You either want to dig deeper, or you don't.
quote:
So why all the hate? And YES it IS hate!
Hatred of false teaching? Absolutely. Hatred of the people. No. Does pointing out blatant error now equal hatred for people in your eyes?? If so, you've certainly come a long way since page 1 of this thread.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 6:22:37 PM
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lw9
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quote:
JimboFletch: Interesting... One would think that I live a sheltered existence in an out-of-touch backwater hamlet from statements made about me in another thread, but even, dunce that I am, I know about IMB and NAMB. Makes me wonder about self-proclaimed know it alls and their FACTS...
What do alleged statements made about you in another thread have to do with this topic? If you are referring to someone here [such as myself] because of another thread, then at least have the courage and maturity to address that person or persons in the proper thread or in a PM rather than take your personal grudge out here.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 7:33:30 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Some people, are called to do this instead of work other jobs. Is it wrong for IHOP to pay them so they can eat, live, ect? I should hope not.
But, they don't pay them so they can eat and live. As I said earlier in this thread, their staff has to raise their own support from private donors and then they have to pay a substantial amount of money to take specific IHOP classes and schools in order to even be considered to be unpaid staff. Oh, and then they are encouraged to rent their apartments from Mrs. Bickle and Son's real estate company. Come on, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that someone's making money on this deal...and it isn't hard to figure who that is! 
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/23/2008 7:54:59 PM
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lw9
Posts: 899
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
crankius: Don't worry, lw9. Before I attended an SBC church I had never heard of the North American Mission Board or the International Mission Board either.
It's quite alright! It doesn't bother me not to know about those organizations. I'm not Baptist, have never attended a Baptist church, and other than some wonderful Baptists I've met here, I'm not familar with the Baptist denomination in general. No... my issue was along another line entirely. It's just not right for someone to come into a thread and spread veiled insults against people because they got their nose out of joint in another thread. They should at least have the courage to take it to the appropriate thread and name names.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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