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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:03:47 PM
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lw9
Posts: 896
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quote:
Stephanos: Anyway, lw9 would like you to look up Luke 2:36-38. Seems there was this woman at the temple who never left and was ALWAYS praying and fasting to the Lord. So, here we have one case of 24 hour prayer and fasting.
That passage only enforces my point. She was just one woman who prayed. She didn't market herself as a 24-hour prayer warrior, she didn't turn her prayer sessions into a movement or an organization, she didn't put herself above others, and she didn't hold conferences and recruit others to follow in her ways.
She went. She prayed. End of story.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:06:08 PM
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SD456
Posts: 387
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
My gosh, first I am supporting IHOP, now I am agreeing with SD456?? Hell MUST be frozen over.
 I always knew we were more kindred in spirit than our disagreements were allowing for...
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:06:42 PM
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lw9
Posts: 896
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quote:
LaurainAL: Rats! I was hoping this thread was about pancakes.
Oh no! I'm so sorry, but you're too late. We ran out of pancakes, hash browns, and sausages somewhere around page 5, and we've been we've running on just coffee ever since.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:15:04 PM
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SD456
Posts: 387
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
Stephanos: Anyway, lw9 would like you to look up Luke 2:36-38. Seems there was this woman at the temple who never left and was ALWAYS praying and fasting to the Lord. So, here we have one case of 24 hour prayer and fasting.
That passage only enforces my point. She was just one woman who prayed. She didn't market herself as a 24-hour prayer warrior, she didn't turn her prayer sessions into a movement or an organization, she didn't put herself above others, and she didn't hold conferences and recruit others to follow in her ways.
She went. She prayed. End of story.
... You are definately persistent if nothing else.
You really believe that God never calls any group of people to do something specific? That would mean YWAM and all other mission organizations are wrong because we don't see missionary organizations in the bible, only individual missionaries.
The phrases you choose to use are carefully chosen for their undertones of derogatoriness: "market herself"? "put herself above others?" "recruit others to follow her ways"? It's almost as if you feel threatened by people who are gathering together to pray 24/7, as if you somehow are feeling inadequate because you are not choosing to do what they do, and so must tear down what they are doing to make yourself feel better. Must we put others in a negative light who are simply obeying Jesus and accuse them of being 'holier than thou' because there lifestyle is more disciplined in prayer than our own lives might be?
I commend them for that discipline and only hope to get there one day - I think they are good examples to follow. NO ONE can create a worldwide movement except God. If a worldwide prayer movement is happening (and in fact it is) then it is God who is orchestrating it, not men.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 1/24/2008 3:24:23 PM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:21:43 PM
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SD456
Posts: 387
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
quote:
Look at all the monks, nuns, Moravian prayer movements, it goes on and on and on. God has ALWAYS raised up people who spend most of their time in prayer and fasting while others support them in it.
Instersting that you have to go back to Catholic tradition to support this movement.
The Moravian prayer movement was Protestant, not Catholic. And had people of every denomination as part of it.
quote:
That and I believe that LW9 has done a good job in documenting all the Domination theology being taught that is clearly wrong.
Then that must make you a Word of Faith person since you agree with the WOF people that Jesus died and on the third day rose again. You should be very careful coming into agreement with ANYTHING WOF  ....There has been enough bible support of how God transfers the wealth of the wicked into the hands of the righteous. So I won't get into that arguement again. Your Dominion accusations are very shallow indeed if that's all that you have - one point that IHOP, myself, and many others across the world agree on does not a heretic make.
quote:
No one on here is objecting to Praying there objecting to the idea that 'god is raising up a 24 hour prayer movement' Not raising up the church but a 'prayer movement'
Except that you can't ignore all the 24/7 prayers rooms rising up everywhere in the world. England has at least 6 of them. The U.S. has about 10 of them that I know of. South Korea has one huge one. Plus the UK has week long prayer rooms that travel, not only through the UK but throughout Europe, one week at a time, and there are dozens of them happening at any given time. They call them 'boiler rooms'. That is what makes this a "God" movement. No one man could orchestrate this. God is preparing His people for times ahead and calling people to their mandated tasks. And for some, it's to be involved in 24/7 prayer. They are from all different countries, denominations, and people groups - that's a GOD thing. If you choose to speak against it, that's your choice. I can read the writing on the wall quite clearly and will not do such a thing.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 1/24/2008 3:36:09 PM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:31:23 PM
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sue244
Posts: 528
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From: Colorado
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quote:
The Moravian prayer movement was Protestant
Sorry I missed that of course I know about the Moravian that go back to John Hus, but I just saw Nun and Monks and thought that it was instersting that you use Catholic Tradition to prove anything among Protestants.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 3:32:12 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 188
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posts #481, 492, 500, 502, 503 ,505, 506, 508, 510, 512, 515, 519.
"I believe we're in a time of history where the Lord wants there to be a significant transfer of wealth...I don't mean millions, I mean billions of dollars, being transfered into the hands of the end time worship and prayer movement on a global level. Much more than billions. We're talking about the whole world, and we need to posture ourselves from a biblical point of view to be part of that. And its something that I'm not content that maybe a few of us understand it; it's bigger than this. I want us as a spiritual family to understand what hour we're living in and what is on the Lord's heart related to the end time worship movement and related to supernatural finances."
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Stephanos:
quote:
lw9: The proof is in Bickle's own words on the videos. I've heard it for myself, and it's already been pointed out to you. There's nothing more I can do
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stephanos: His words today? Since the formation of IHOP? I find that hard to believe.
Now if you are using his words from 20 years ago, that is just pathetic.
Ummm... are ya joking?
You've been here for the last 3 pages. What have people been pointing out to you but his statements from IHOP Onething - which obviously are recent. See posts #481, 492, 500, 502, 503, 505, 506, 508, 510, 512, 515, 519. I have no idea where you're suddenly coming up with the idea that we're talking about his words from 20 years ago. 
So yes, obviously... his words TODAY.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 1/24/2008 4:01:41 PM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 4:05:06 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 188
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
Stephanos: Anyway, lw9 would like you to look up Luke 2:36-38. Seems there was this woman at the temple who never left and was ALWAYS praying and fasting to the Lord. So, here we have one case of 24 hour prayer and fasting.
That passage only enforces my point. She was just one woman who prayed. She didn't market herself as a 24-hour prayer warrior, she didn't turn her prayer sessions into a movement or an organization, she didn't put herself above others, and she didn't hold conferences and recruit others to follow in her ways.
She went. She prayed. End of story.
We are all called to be servants of The Most High in whatsoever capacity that He has for us to serve.
she didn't hold conferences and recruit others to follow in her ways.
It is the Great Commission to preach to all of creation and make disciples teaching them to obey everything that he has commanded us. Pray continually, give thanks on every occasion this is God's will for you in Jesus Christ. For not everyone who comes to Him saying 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Therefore, we ask and receive that our joy may be made complete in Christ. For the Son of God wants to bring glory to The Father that whatever you ask in His Name, He will do it.
For we know that the will of God leads to eternal life and His will for us is beyond anything that we could ask or imagine and His yoke is the light yoke. His ways are easier than ours and they lead to Good fruits, fruit that will last. For the goal of this command is love.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 1/24/2008 5:12:33 PM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 4:06:03 PM
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SD456
Posts: 387
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
Then that must make you a Word of Faith person since you agree with the WOF people that Jesus died and on the third day rose again. You should be very careful coming into agreement with ANYTHING WOF
quote:
sue244: Wow
Umm, yeah. I gotta ditto that.
That's exactly what you both are saying. Isn't it? Because there are some in the body of Christ who believe that, biblically, God has and does choose to transfer the wealth of nations to His people, and that one point is what dominionists believe, then that must make EVERYONE who believes that point a dominionist. That's like saying apples are red, so all red fruit are apples. Your Dominionist arguement is very weak and cannot stand up to any kind of intense scrutiny, especially since IHOP definately does not believe that all gov'ts will be taken over by the church before Christ's return. You don't have a leg to stand on in using that accusation.
Here's another interesting fact from Wikipedia (though I don't usually recommend looking at Wikipedia, I know that this point is true as I've read Pete Grieg's books):
The rhythm of 24-7 prayer occurred during biblical times and most likely ever since the early church in the book of Acts. Some communities, such as a 17th century Moravian Church settlement in Germany, prayed 24-7 for over 100 years.
Taking its cue from these same Moravians, a church under the leadership of Pete Greig in the southern part of England began experimenting with non-stop prayer in September of 1999. Within a year, this room had inspired literally hundreds across the world to run weeks or months of continual prayer. Currently, this movement has seen well over 3000 rooms in more than 65 countries joining this non-stop prayer meeting.
And you want to say that it's NOT God moving in this? You can if you want, but I don't because I believe that it's very obviously God.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 4:08:50 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
The real answer is that we are no more told to set up a building as a twenty-four hour prayer center than we are anything else that we're told to do. How about 1 Timothy 2:11?
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. "The 24 hour house of the woman learning in silence with all subjection" would not be nearly as popular. So it's not based on Scripture but on someone's construing of the meaning.
++Before this rockets off into the "Women in Ministry" debate, let me ask why you feel this is a valid argument? The verse is talking about being in church, and we are talking about praying 24/7. Since prayer is the single most important link between the human spirit and God, doesn't it make sense to spend a lot of time doing it?
One of my friends gets credit for that hilarious and facetious example of Scripture misconstrued. To answer your question, yes it makes sense to spend a lot of time in prayer. The IHOP discussion is about more than that. Okay?
quote:
then you will have no problem if I ask why you made the referrence to "being devoid of sound doctrine" in post 476? Unless you have a reason to believe that someone here or the subject of a debate is devoid of sound doctrine, I will politely ask you to recant this accusation.
Here's the quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
2nd Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Is that time now? And if you're listening, devoid of sound doctrine, to those purporting to be prophets, how will you be seeking the truth or adhering to the simplicity in Christ?
I don't see anything to recant. Disagree if you like.
quote:
Thirdly, you once again have brought up the ideas of "manipulation... high-sounding ideas". Everyone here is here by choice. Not by trick, not by coercion, but because we believe this is right. But what is wrong with high-sounding ideas? God has vested in us the authority to shape the future through intercession. If you don't like high-sounding ideas, I suggest you avoid reading about the New Jerusalem in the Old Testament... there's a lot in there about the saints ruling and reigning with Christ. Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't get much higher than that.
Pyramid schemes are all voluntary, for example. Manipulation may include volunteers. The old-time "Medicine Show" comes to mind.
quote:
first off, would you care to prove hallucinogenic drugs are involved?
Merriam Webster has the fifth definition of "trip" as a journey, while a drug experience is number seven. I think my usage of "tripping" was grammatically correct.
quote:
Secondly, if you would care to begin discussing doctrines of various denominations, you will find all kinds of bugs under the rocks. Yeah like Bob Jones and Paul Cain.
quote:
So really, error doesn't seperate one denomination of church as "that much worse".
Bickle is worse. I saw him on a couple of podcasts yesterday giving his fiction about the "evil prayer movement" that will arise to oppose the "endtimes prayer movement". Come on. How can you endorse extra-Biblical fantasy like that?
quote:
++Cyrus and Joseph being the typological keys. Cyrus gave a huge amount of money for the building of the temple after the Babylonian captivity and Joseph was in a position of business and political power to the point that it continued the Nation of Israel. The idea is asking God to give people enlightenment in the area of business, that they may be blessed to be a blessing. Is that wrong? Not a bit. The question to be asked... Does God call people into the market place? yes. Does God give us money so that we can bless others? Absolutely. Is it wrong to ask for God to raise people up who have this call? That would see to be where the division lies. So really this argument is about the merits of Intercession as a whole.
Not really. If one sees the "endtimes prayer movement" as an unscriptural aberration, it makes no sense to spend your life trying to fund it.
Hey, don't I get a "**Ding!** +1" for understanding the concept?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 4:10:10 PM
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lw9
Posts: 896
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quote:
That's exactly what you both are saying. Isn't it?
<--- grabs a bowl of popcorn and kicks back for the show...
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 4:15:28 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 188
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LOL!
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
That's exactly what you both are saying. Isn't it?
<--- grabs a bowl of popcorn and kicks back for the show...
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 4:43:25 PM
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lw9
Posts: 896
Joined: 7/22/2005
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Hi prophetica!
quote:
I don't see anywhere in Scripture where Christ teaches us to confine our fellowship to once a week meetings and 'punching a clock' with God.
Some Christians do meet more than once a week, and they're not punching any clocks. They meet because they want to. We can meet as many times as we like.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 5:09:06 PM
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lw9
Posts: 896
Joined: 7/22/2005
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Bickle's Walking in the Light excerpts:
quote:
Because the Lord is looking for willing vessels and its more than individuals. He's looking for companies of people. Companies of people who have understanding and who are together pursuing a course that the eyes of the Lord takes notice of them. We want to be one of those company of people.
I believe we already have companies of people gathering together in understanding and pursuing a course. We call our meeting places churches.
quote:
We want our family in Poland to be a company of people in which God shifts great wealth to so they can build houses of prayer. They will all look different, they will all sound different in all the different nations but nonetheless God is raising up a mighty prayer movement at the end of the age.
Yup. That's what the transfer of wealth is for: More houses of prayer.
quote:
Jesus is not coming back in a vacuum. He's coming back in response to global concerts of prayer that never end. He's coming back in answer to a worship movement that fills the earth. But that worship movement will not go uncontested. There's another worship movement that's born of darkness... [Bickles then goes on and on about the 'end time evil worship movement'].
Wow... so I guess we'll have IHOP and company to thank for the Second Coming. Strangely enough, Jesus Himself has this to say about His return -
Luke 18:8 “I tell you that He will bring about justice for them speedily. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
- yet Bickle has a whole global prayer movement revival plan all mapped out for the end times.
quote:
IHOP is a little expression of a huge mandate in the heart of Jesus to build up a worship movement to call Him back from His throne to be the foundation of a worship movement that will explode in the age to come in the millenial kingdom.
... More stuff about how important they are. But here's a question: If Jesus has allegedly mandated a global prayer movement to call Him back and you're not involved with one of these groups, are you seen as less of a Christian or somehow rebelling against God's mandate in their eyes?? Hmmm....
But here's the real kicker:
quote:
And then when He returns this very worship movement will call Him from His throne in heaven to the earth. Again, He's not coming one day suddenly in the clouds. He's coming in answer to global perpetual concerts of prayer on a global level.
Acts 1:11 and they [2 men in white] also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way you have watched Him go into heaven.”
Matt 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” 30 … and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.”
Bickle has placed his movement in some awfully self-important shoes and contradicted the Bible, to boot.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 1/24/2008 5:29:58 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 5:20:36 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 188
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
Because the Lord is looking for willing vessels and its more than individuals. He's looking for companies of people. Companies of people who have understanding and who are together pursuing a course that the eyes of the Lord takes notice of them. We want to be one of those company of people.
I believe we already have companies of people gathering together in understanding and pursuing a course. We call our meeting places churches.
Amen, and Amen. For Christ says that they may be one as We are One.
quote:
quote:
We want our family in Poland to be a company of people in which God shifts great wealth to so they can build houses of prayer. They will all look different, they will all sound different in all the different nations but nonetheless God is raising up a mighty prayer movement at the end of the age.
Yup. That's what the transfer of wealth is for: More houses of prayer.
quote:
Jesus is not coming back in a vacuum. He's coming back in response to global concerts of prayer that never end. He's coming back in answer to a worship movement that fills the earth. But that worship movement will not go uncontested. There's another worship movement that's born of darkness... [Bickles then goes on and on about the 'end time evil worship movement'].
quote:
Wow... so I guess we'll have IHOP and company to thank for the Second Coming. Strangely enough, Jesus Himself has this to say about His return -
Luke 18:8 “I tell you that He will bring about justice for them speedily. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
- yet Bickle has a whole global prayer movement revival plan all mapped out for the end times
quote:
IHOP is a little expression of a huge mandate in the heart of Jesus to build up a worship movement to call Him back from His throne to be the foundation of a worship movement that will explode in the age to come in the millenial kingdom.
quote:
... more stuff about how special they are. But here's the real kicker:
quote:
And then when He returns this very worship movement will call Him from His throne in heaven to the earth. Again, He's not coming one day suddenly in the clouds. He's coming in answer to global perpetual concerts of prayer on a global level.
??? Instead the Son of Man said: will he find faith on the earth? in reference to the leadership of the false worldly prophet leader who puts the world under the mark of the beast trial in the last 7 years of history whereby he makes war on the saints of The Most High and conquers many of them unto death.
quote:
Acts 1:11 and they [2 men in white] also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way you have watched Him go into heaven.”
Matt 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” 30 … and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.”
Bickle has placed his movement in some awfully self-important shoes, and contradicted the Bible, to boot.
I think that there are many who think that they are the only group of believers around at times. For instance it is written: for whoever is not against us is for us. We all would like to be part of that special movement that God has for us.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 5:30:40 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Bickle's Walking in the Light excerpts:
quote:
But that worship movement will not go uncontested. There's another worship movement that's born of darkness... [Bickles then goes on and on about the 'end time evil worship movement'].
"Now recruiting Lukewarm Prayerwalkers to battle the evil worship movement"
Once you leave the Bible, anything goes.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 5:35:52 PM
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lw9
Posts: 896
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
wintery: "Now recruiting Lukewarm Prayerwalkers to battle the evil worship movement"
Would those be the expendable red shirts who always get to 'scout ahead'?? 
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/24/2008 5:52:15 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 188
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
Jesus is not coming back in a vacuum. He's coming back in response to global concerts of prayer that never end. He's coming back in answer to a worship movement that fills the earth. But that worship movement will not go uncontested. There's another worship movement that's born of darkness... [Bickles then goes on and on about the 'end time evil worship movement'].
Bickle has placed his movement in some awfully self-important shoes and contradicted the Bible, to boot.
What worship movement of God would be born of darkness? Maybe he's talking about some of the stuff that we hear on the radio these days in popular culture.
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