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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/25/2008 8:23:02 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1582
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
What worship movement of God would be born of darkness? Maybe he's talking about some of the stuff that we hear on the radio these days in popular culture.
Just to let you know in context what he was referring to, he goes on to explain that this "other" worship movement will be satan's, and that large transfers of funds will go into it, and that movement will also fill up stadiums (what IS IT about stadiums?) and have compelling worship movement.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/25/2008 8:55:35 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1551
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From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Just to let you know in context what he was referring to, he goes on to explain that this "other" worship movement will be satan's, and that large transfers of funds will go into it, and that movement will also fill up stadiums (what IS IT about stadiums?) and have compelling worship movement.
Wouldn't those be Benny Hinn crusades?
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/25/2008 11:18:07 AM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2505
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stimulus
Well, there you have it. You believe that human blood atones for sin. To say human blood, after the sacrifice of Jesus' blood, has any standing or merit before God to cleanse from sin... well, that's a little close to the essentials of Christianity for me to swallow.
stimulus, for more on what The Call believes on this, here's a quote from Lou Engle: "Urgent Summons to the Nation at TheCall OHIO--to Stand in the Gap"
If 600,000 men died in the battlefields of the Civil War--both north and south, black and white--for the shed blood of the slaves, then what will it mean to America--black and white and north and south--if God brings a day of reckoning for the shed blood of 50 million babies?
This kind of mentality reminds me of when Katrina struck and certain Christians could only sit around nodding their heads and saying, "judgment, judgment". Since many were working with ministries to fill trucks with vitally needed supplies for victims in Mississippi, I really thought it was counter-productive to have people out there as "prophets" explaining why it was "judgment". No doubt people need to repent of all their sin including abortion. To add a "prophetic" element to create urgency, forecasting "a day of reckoning" I think goes out of bounds. There's a day of reckoning for all indeed:
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come
Whether someone is telling people they'll be blessed, cursed, judged or rewarded based on the flavor of the day, the taint of manipulation is present in the predicting of results.
Matthew 5:45
...for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Which would actually be more productive--working to evangelize the lost vs. praying to avert a predicted judgment? That's not just a religious-sounding statement. The salvation of the individual brings that person into right relationship with God.
To know the unknowable--a tantalizing element. This is a no-lose scenario for the prophet. Any event can be said to be fulfillment of their prophecy. The lack of an event is the reward for prayer. Going down this path is the way we get to the prayer movement warily facing the future where the "evil worship movement" will oppose them.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/25/2008 1:31:05 PM
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lw9
Posts: 879
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quote:
wintery: I did get the Star Trek reference there, lw9, and I've been thinking about it as possibly profound. "Paying to beam down" comes to mind.
Not a bad analogy at all.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/25/2008 3:47:46 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2505
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From The Elijah List email "Lou Engle, Mike Bickle and others:"
"ONETHING--A Prophetic Call of African-American Leaders" December 23, 2007
"In 1983, Bob Jones prophesied to the future leadership of IHOP-KC that the beginning breakthrough of revival in our nation would only come when African-Americans were functioning in their God-ordained role of leadership in the prayer movement.
Then earlier this year in October 2007, Bob again prophesied of a harvest of individuals coming from the black community, particularly from the young--who would be thrust into an accelerated mode of training to function as prophets to the nations with an emphasis of leading in prayer and prophetic worship."
We can gather from this small excerpt that the "distancing" from Bob Jones is not very far, and that posts arguing that what was said twenty years ago is not relevant are mistaken. Note that the "harvest" will be "particularly from the young". Does "function as prophets" mean "not accountable as prophets with a Scriptural measure" since they would not claim to be "prophets"? "Prophetic worship" means something more special that regular worship I take it. If it's a "beginning breakthrough of revival in our nation", they why are they "prophets to the nations"? Why not prophets on the corner--perhaps doesn't sound as impressive to prophesy that. Loftier words make a bigger impression on some, perhaps. "The nations" seems to be a buzz term among the apostolic/prophetic crowd, as in "give us the nations", "reach the nations", "to the nations".
Anyway so much for distance from Bob Jones.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/26/2008 3:48:53 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 188
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Amen! Believers were given the opportunity to express God's Love and participate in the Grace of Giving which the Apostle admonishes us to excel in. There was an opportunity given to express the tangible demonstated natural affection that God has for people.
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: stimulus
Well, there you have it. You believe that human blood atones for sin. To say human blood, after the sacrifice of Jesus' blood, has any standing or merit before God to cleanse from sin... well, that's a little close to the essentials of Christianity for me to swallow.
stimulus, for more on what The Call believes on this, here's a quote from Lou Engle: "Urgent Summons to the Nation at TheCall OHIO--to Stand in the Gap"
If 600,000 men died in the battlefields of the Civil War--both north and south, black and white--for the shed blood of the slaves, then what will it mean to America--black and white and north and south--if God brings a day of reckoning for the shed blood of 50 million babies?
This kind of mentality reminds me of when Katrina struck and certain Christians could only sit around nodding their heads and saying, "judgment, judgment". Since many were working with ministries to fill trucks with vitally needed supplies for victims in Mississippi, I really thought it was counter-productive to have people out there as "prophets" explaining why it was "judgment". No doubt people need to repent of all their sin including abortion. To add a "prophetic" element to create urgency, forecasting "a day of reckoning" I think goes out of bounds. There's a day of reckoning for all indeed:
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come
Whether someone is telling people they'll be blessed, cursed, judged or rewarded based on the flavor of the day, the taint of manipulation is present in the predicting of results.
Matthew 5:45
...for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Which would actually be more productive--working to evangelize the lost vs. praying to avert a predicted judgment? That's not just a religious-sounding statement. The salvation of the individual brings that person into right relationship with God.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 1/26/2008 3:55:55 PM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/27/2008 12:36:58 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2558
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Here is an interesting side note:
Anyone ever listen to the late Larry Burkett of Crown Financial Ministries? He used to say that he was convinced that God had created America and made her financially prosper for the express purpose of funding worldwide missions and evangelism.
I don't remember the heresy hunters coming after him....
Anyway, I am glad I left this thread. The strife filled and dividing heresy hunters depress me. I hope they can someday repent and stop doing Satan's work for him and redirect their well-intentioned zeal someplace that actually deserves the attention.
Oh, and whaddyaknow? My "prophecy" about the troll still stands. Looks like a name or some other validating evidence is still absent.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/27/2008 5:36:46 AM
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kisstheson
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Hey Mikey! I like Mikey! Bickle is cool..."Passion for Jesus!" Mikes Okay!
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 12:36:58 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Here is an interesting side note:
Anyone ever listen to the late Larry Burkett of Crown Financial Ministries? He used to say that he was convinced that God had created America and made her financially prosper for the express purpose of funding worldwide missions and evangelism.
I don't remember the heresy hunters coming after him....
Anyway, I am glad I left this thread. The strife filled and dividing heresy hunters depress me. I hope they can someday repent and stop doing Satan's work for him and redirect their well-intentioned zeal someplace that actually deserves the attention.
Oh, and whaddyaknow? My "prophecy" about the troll still stands. Looks like a name or some other validating evidence is still absent.
It is pretty sad, isn't it? Such a lack of love that it surprises me. And each of them that are on this thread and do their mocking, their laughing at other christians the way they do, will have to answer to Jesus at the judgement. And they'll have to answer to Jesus for everything they've said about Mike Bickle right in front of Mike Bickle himself and all the cloud of witnesses. I wonder if Jesus will listen to all of their reasons and excuses as to why they spoke about one of His precious children the way they did, a man they never even personally knew.
And you know what? I know that Mike Bickle will turn to them and with the gracious heart of Jesus, he'll say, "I forgive you, for you knew not what you were doing." And Mike Bickle will be the one who garners the reward.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 1:14:03 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 526
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: AOL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Here is an interesting side note:
Anyone ever listen to the late Larry Burkett of Crown Financial Ministries? He used to say that he was convinced that God had created America and made her financially prosper for the express purpose of funding worldwide missions and evangelism.
I don't remember the heresy hunters coming after him....
Anyway, I am glad I left this thread. The strife filled and dividing heresy hunters depress me. I hope they can someday repent and stop doing Satan's work for him and redirect their well-intentioned zeal someplace that actually deserves the attention.
Oh, and whaddyaknow? My "prophecy" about the troll still stands. Looks like a name or some other validating evidence is still absent.
It is pretty sad, isn't it? Such a lack of love that it surprises me. And each of them that are on this thread and do their mocking, their laughing at other christians the way they do, will have to answer to Jesus at the judgement. And they'll have to answer to Jesus for everything they've said about Mike Bickle right in front of Mike Bickle himself and all the cloud of witnesses. I wonder if Jesus will listen to all of their reasons and excuses as to why they spoke about one of His precious children the way they did, a man they never even personally knew.
And you know what? I know that Mike Bickle will turn to them and with the gracious heart of Jesus, he'll say, "I forgive you, for you knew not what you were doing." And Mike Bickle will be the one who garners the reward.
I know. That lack of love always stuns me. I actually met bickle. he was at a confrence where my art was on display. he's a nice guy with a deep love for Jesus. Jesus...loving Him...is there something wrond with that?
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 9:08:11 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1397
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kisstheson
I know. That lack of love always stuns me. I actually met bickle. he was at a confrence where my art was on display. he's a nice guy with a deep love for Jesus. Jesus...loving Him...is there something wrond with that?
You met him once and know his heart?...what a special gift you have. Did you read this thread? Did you look at some of the stuff he's teaching? It fascinates me no end that those who attempt to expose these false teachers are repeatedly called unloving, yet they are actually doing the most loving thing there is...attempting to save their brothers and sisters from being duped and lied to by a false prophet. So, I guess in the interest of "love" as you see it, you would have us all just sit around holding hands, singing Cumbaya, while this false teacher leads innocent people astray. How loving would that be?
You know what "stuns" me? That supposedly "loving" Christians do nothing to stop these guys and care nothing about their victims.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 11:06:24 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
I know. That lack of love always stuns me. I actually met bickle. he was at a confrence where my art was on display. he's a nice guy with a deep love for Jesus. Jesus...loving Him...is there something wrond with that?
One of the nicest people I met was a young woman who was a Mormon. She was sweet and very kind to people. She would likely tell you that she had a deep love for Jesus too.
The point of that illustration is that it's possible to be nice to others and claim to love Jesus while still believing and/or teaching false teachings.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 11:37:18 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I wanted to get back to something I really didn't have time to address last week. Prophetica, in message 546, attempted to give scriptural support for prayer movements along the lines of IHOP, and I commend him/her for actually searching the scripture regarding this issue. However, I don't think that the references given do support an IHOP-like organization in particular.
Item 1)
quote:
The power and edification of a corporate prayer meeting is something that everyone should experience.
The primary verse given to support this appeared to be Matthew 18:20 - "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
This is not specifically referring to a corporate prayer meeting. It is referring to any time when believers pray together. It could be the mother and child who say a quick prayer in their car, asking for God's hand upon them to deliver them safely to their destination.
Item 2) Anna the prophetess (Luke 2:36-38)
I think lw9 in message 551 and a further post from prophetica in message 561 have pretty thoroughly addressed this example.
I will add one thing regarding Anna's circumstances that others haven't pointed out yet. We know her situation - that she lived at the temple devoting herself to prayer and fasting. We don't know WHY. But there are two possible clues in her description. She was very old - 85 - especially old for that time period. And she was a widow. Perhaps, due to her advanced age, she had outlived the rest of her remaining family members. Perhaps her service was in exchange for others at the temple caring for her. We can't be sure based on what scripture tells us, but it is certainly a possibility.
Item 3)
quote:
It's as though the idea of a monk is new to some somehow. They are dedicated to worship and study and prayer in fellowship with one another.
The verses referenced here are Isaiah 56:7, Matthew 21:13, and Mark 11:17. The second two are referring to the first. The context of the second two passages is Jesus clearing the temple (and he's using it to contrast with the current condition of the temple being a "den of theives", so we need to go back to the first reference to actually see the context.
The context of Isaiah 56:7 begins earlier in that chapter. Isaiah 56:3 says, "Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain,"I am only a dry tree."
(italics following are from me, in order to highlight the flow and context of this passage...)
The context follows in Isaiah 56:4-6:
For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.
(The Lord is promising enunichs who follow Him that what He will give them is even better than the sons and daughters they can no longer have)
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-
(Here The Lord is addressing those not born unto the Hebrews, but those who decide to follow the Lord. The context for what they need to do: serve God, love Him, woship him. keep the Sabbath, and hold to the covenant.)
It is in THAT context that verse 7 is written:
these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.
(see - God is talking about His acceptance of the non-Jews who determine that they will follow Him!)
In context, it's pretty clear (IMO)that this is not referring to monks or some kind of monastic lifestyle. And not referring to an end times global prayer movement. The "all nations" is the idea that those not of the Jewish nation can be welcomed in the house of prayer, and welcomed into a covenant with God!
I'll try and get to the other references as I can.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 2:10:06 PM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
I wanted to get back to something I really didn't have time to address last week. Prophetica, in message 546, attempted to give scriptural support for prayer movements along the lines of IHOP, and I commend him/her for actually searching the scripture regarding this issue. However, I don't think that the references given do support an IHOP-like organization in particular.
Item 1)
quote:
The power and edification of a corporate prayer meeting is something that everyone should experience.
The primary verse given to support this appeared to be Matthew 18:20 - "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
This is not specifically referring to a corporate prayer meeting. It is referring to any time when believers pray together. It could be the mother and child who say a quick prayer in their car, asking for God's hand upon them to deliver them safely to their destination.
Item 2) Anna the prophetess (Luke 2:36-38)
I think lw9 in message 551 and a further post from prophetica in message 561 have pretty thoroughly addressed this example.
I will add one thing regarding Anna's circumstances that others haven't pointed out yet. We know her situation - that she lived at the temple devoting herself to prayer and fasting. We don't know WHY. But there are two possible clues in her description. She was very old - 85 - especially old for that time period. And she was a widow. Perhaps, due to her advanced age, she had outlived the rest of her remaining family members. Perhaps her service was in exchange for others at the temple caring for her. We can't be sure based on what scripture tells us, but it is certainly a possibility.
Item 3)
quote:
It's as though the idea of a monk is new to some somehow. They are dedicated to worship and study and prayer in fellowship with one another.
The verses referenced here are Isaiah 56:7, Matthew 21:13, and Mark 11:17. The second two are referring to the first. The context of the second two passages is Jesus clearing the temple (and he's using it to contrast with the current condition of the temple being a "den of theives", so we need to go back to the first reference to actually see the context.
The context of Isaiah 56:7 begins earlier in that chapter. Isaiah 56:3 says, "Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain,"I am only a dry tree."
(italics following are from me, in order to highlight the flow and context of this passage...)
The context follows in Isaiah 56:4-6:
For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.
(The Lord is promising enunichs who follow Him that what He will give them is even better than the sons and daughters they can no longer have)
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-
(Here The Lord is addressing those not born unto the Hebrews, but those who decide to follow the Lord. The context for what they need to do: serve God, love Him, woship him. keep the Sabbath, and hold to the covenant.)
It is in THAT context that verse 7 is written:
these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.
(see - God is talking about His acceptance of the non-Jews who determine that they will follow Him!)
In context, it's pretty clear (IMO)that this is not referring to monks or some kind of monastic lifestyle. And not referring to an end times global prayer movement. The "all nations" is the idea that those not of the Jewish nation can be welcomed in the house of prayer, and welcomed into a covenant with God!
I'll try and get to the other references as I can.
Good grief, I can't believe that you are actually trying to use scripture to say that people coming together corporately to pray and fast is not in the scripture! How foolish has the church gotten that there are some of you so intent to destroy the reputation of true followers of Jesus that you would attempt to discredit every monk, nun, moravian, and others who God CALLED to do 24/7 prayer, and ALL of those today who God has CALLED to do the exact same thing.
The scriptures that prohpetica used, were used properly. It is you who are attempting to twist the scriptures to somehow invalidate the 24/7 prayer rooms that God has called to start up today. And you're not able to do it, because you are not using scripture properly to test these things. If God called people in scripture to live a life of prayer and fasting in His house of prayer, whether it be a single person or a group, then God sure enough does the same thing today. You can't twist the scriptures to say that it was only a few non-hebrews, or one old lady, so God doesn't call a corporate group together today. That's an absolutely erroneous way to use scripture. And actually, isn't even worth arguing about. So I shall not go there any longer.
You guys can discount all the godly monks, nuns, german protestants who were part of the moravians, and present day christians who started up 24/7 houses of prayer and fasting all you want - I shall not argue about such an obviously God-ordained call on people's lives.
And you will never be able to stop God's prayer movement that has been happening across this earth for the past 9 years. (actually more than 20 years when you count the South Korea house of prayer) God will not be stopped by critical, negative, back-biting people (even when they belong to His own house). God will continue to raise up even more houses of prayer like IHOP and will continue to outrage the religious spirit that is found everywhere on this earth. I'm very, very thankful for it. And shall continue to bless EVERYTHING that God is doing for it's so very needed in these end-times.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 1/28/2008 2:24:17 PM >
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 2:21:45 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
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SD456 - let me be very clear.
I am not arguing against corporate prayer. I think corporate prayer is an important part of the life of the church.
I asked if there was biblical support for the Mike Bickle-style "global prayer movement."
As far as I remember, Prophetia is the one person who was willing to post specifics where the bible was cited in some possible support. Not possible examples in post-bible church history - the bible itself.
I believe that reviewing the biblical foundations that might be used to support IHOP is an important consideration because of Bickle's claims about his own movement. We have been discussing in the last several pages, for example, some of his claims regarding Jesus' return being in response to this movement.
Since you made the accusation, please explain to me where I twisted the scriptures I just went through. I am certainly interested in hearing the explanation!
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 1/28/2008 2:42:46 PM >
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/28/2008 3:29:44 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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SD456,
I don't think you get it. Mine and most others objections to Mike Bickle and IHOP as a whole has nothing to do with the desire for corporate prayer.
At issue is the unrefutable facts that prove that Mike Bickle is a documented proponent of Dominionist theology. He is plain and simple a Kingdom Now/Latter Rain proponent. He supports it and associates with others that support it, despite what some page on his website claims. His version of corporate prayer is a component of this dangerous and heretical movement
I have associated with people involved in this movement and his name has come up numerous times.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 1:22:22 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
SD456,
I don't think you get it. Mine and most others objections to Mike Bickle and IHOP as a whole has nothing to do with the desire for corporate prayer.
At issue is the unrefutable facts that prove that Mike Bickle is a documented proponent of Dominionist theology. He is plain and simple a Kingdom Now/Latter Rain proponent. He supports it and associates with others that support it, despite what some page on his website claims. His version of corporate prayer is a component of this dangerous and heretical movement
I have associated with people involved in this movement and his name has come up numerous times.
I say in all kindness, that that is a lie. IHOP's website denies the Dominionist doctrine. I believe that the bible clearly shows examples of God transfering the wealth of nations into his people's hands, and transfering the wealth of an ungodly person into the hands of a righteous person. (look at Israel leaving Egypt, look at Jacob in the land of Laban, etc, etc.) I even since this transfer of wealth happen on a large scale with individuals that I personally know. I believe that since it is a biblical concept, there is nothing unbiblical when someone says that God is saying He will do this again, as Mike Bickle says God has told him and many others have received the same word. I have no reason to doubt that they heard God and since I was not in their prayer closet with them hearing God for myself, I have no right to judge it as false.
Because I believe this one point and supposed Dominionist people also believe this point does not make me a Dominionist; no more than you believing that Jesus resurrected from the dead and will return and the WOF people believing the same thing necessarily makes you a WOF person.
I will not argue this point again. You may believe what you wish about them, but you are believing lies when they themselves deny those doctrines. I believe their words, not your accusations that try to put words in their mouths which they don't believe. End of story.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 1/29/2008 1:50:05 AM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 1:44:38 AM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
The primary verse given to support this appeared to be Matthew 18:20 - "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
This is not specifically referring to a corporate prayer meeting. It is referring to any time when believers pray together. It could be the mother and child who say a quick prayer in their car, asking for God's hand upon them to deliver them safely to their destination.
Neither is it NOT referring to a corporate prayer meeting. So this verse supports corporate prayer meetings as much as it supports the lone mother and child.
quote:
that she lived at the temple devoting herself to prayer and fasting. We don't know WHY. But there are two possible clues in her description. She was very old - 85 - especially old for that time period. And she was a widow. Perhaps, due to her advanced age, she had outlived the rest of her remaining family members. Perhaps her service was in exchange for others at the temple caring for her. We can't be sure based on what scripture tells us, but it is certainly a possibility.
And perhaps God called her to this as a ministry, just as God has called IHOP to this as a ministry. When God gives us examples in scripture, highlighting the things He calls people to do, that same example still exists in life today. Why must you try and put some reason for her leading this life as anything other than God calling her to it? Perhaps because that would mean that God could possibly have called Mike Bickle and Peter Grieg in England to do the exact same thing with their lives and to encourage others to do it with their lives.
quote:
I asked if there was biblical support for the Mike Bickle-style "global prayer movement."
I ask a better question. Can you show me biblical support that says God does NOT ever do worldwide movements of any kind? Since you seem to question Mike getting the call to participate in this prayer movement (and participate is the key word here) then YOU must prove that biblically and historically God NEVER starts nationwide or global wide movements of any kind.
The facts speak for themselves - 3000 24/7 prayer communities in 65 nations have been started since 1999. This is a GOD thing. Man could never start or keep such a worldwide prayer movement growing and continuing as it is. Mike Bickle did not start this, nor does he imply that he did. Peter Grieg started his 24/7 prayer and fasting house in England before Mike Bickle did. And South Korea started theres before any of these two did. If it bothers you to call it a worldwide 'prayer movement', then don't. Call it whatever you wish, but it's still happening.
God is in this and as Acts 5:39 says clearly - 39 But if it (their purpose or activity) is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."
Feel free to fight on all you want. I hope for your sake that you are absolutely 100% correct in ALL that you say against them. For if even 1 accusation against them is incorrect, then you shall have to answer to Jesus for it, especially if your accusations against them cause even the youngest or weakest of our brethren to believe and to think of them as enemies. That is even worse.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 1/29/2008 2:06:43 AM >
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 1:58:37 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kisstheson
I know. That lack of love always stuns me. I actually met bickle. he was at a confrence where my art was on display. he's a nice guy with a deep love for Jesus. Jesus...loving Him...is there something wrond with that?
You met him once and know his heart?...what a special gift you have. Did you read this thread? Did you look at some of the stuff he's teaching? It fascinates me no end that those who attempt to expose these false teachers are repeatedly called unloving, yet they are actually doing the most loving thing there is...attempting to save their brothers and sisters from being duped and lied to by a false prophet. So, I guess in the interest of "love" as you see it, you would have us all just sit around holding hands, singing Cumbaya, while this false teacher leads innocent people astray. How loving would that be?
You know what "stuns" me? That supposedly "loving" Christians do nothing to stop these guys and care nothing about their victims.
Does he believe in the basic elements of the faith, the niceen creed, Jesus died for our sin, rose from the dead will return visably to earth? This is the true doctrine.
I'm not Catholic but I'm wondering if you believe there are any christians within the Roman Catholic Church?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 8:30:41 AM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
The facts speak for themselves - 3000 24/7 prayer communities in 65 nations have been started since 1999. This is a GOD thing. Man could never start or keep such a worldwide prayer movement growing and continuing as it is
Scientology was founded in 1953 by L. Ron Hubbard and has an estimated 100,000 to 200,000 followers worldwide. Should we assume that it is of God because it's continued for so long? How about Mormonism? Founded in 1827, with about 4.2 million followers in the US alone!
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 11:49:12 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
I'm not Catholic but I'm wondering if you believe there are any christians within the Roman Catholic Church?
Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but I can only speak for myself...When I was a Catholic, I was not saved.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 1:02:19 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
I'm not Catholic but I'm wondering if you believe there are any christians within the Roman Catholic Church?
Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but I can only speak for myself...When I was a Catholic, I was not saved.
But would you agree that there are some catholic's within the catholic church that are saved?
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 1/29/2008 2:28:30 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1397
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
I'm not Catholic but I'm wondering if you believe there are any christians within the Roman Catholic Church?
Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but I can only speak for myself...When I was a Catholic, I was not saved.
But would you agree that there are some catholic's within the catholic church that are saved?
I don't know what you're getting at other than Bickle bases many of his teachings on Catholic mysticism, but if you want to discuss Catholicism, there are other threads for that. I will, however, quote from the seventh chapter of the Book of Matthew:
22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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