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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 1:23:23 AM
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sue244
Posts: 529
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
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no its their associations that have me more worried. Although there prophet school is cause for raised eyebrows. I've asked fur, to defind prophet, if its forth telling or fore telling and have not got an answer yet. But by reading IHOPs thing I would say its the former which to me is a contridtiction. Not to metnion that their notes form their confrence are just off the wall in my opinon. Don't be to specfic, don't be negative, that is not what you see in the Bible at all.
_____________________________
My country owes me nothing. It gave me, as it gives every boy and girl,
a chance. It gave me schooling, independence of action, opportunity for
service and honor.
Equal rights for all, special privileges for none.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 1:34:41 AM
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stephanos
Posts: 786
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Well no you have not read my posts. If you look back the my post on the first page I said quite clearly that I DO believe that the GIFT of prophecy is still given by the Spirit. I have said that there is a difference between the GIFT of prophecy and the OFFICE of Prophet. How can you continue to speak about what you THINK i said if you dont even get things right.
Oh dear, I can't remember what everyone's comments exactly are from the beginning of this thread, and as I said, some of my comments were not directed at you but were directed at those on this thread who think of prophecy in a certain way. I'm sorry if I didn't clearly remember who said what when, but ALL of my comments were not about you...  And I, too, believe there is something different between the office of prophet and the gift of prophecy.
I understand. I know that sometimes it is hard to fully express your intended meaning behind a post here online. That is why blanket statements are so dangerous, you may intend them to be for only a particular group, but they can be interpreted otherwise.
But this leads me to want to touch on prophecy itself. Maybe this can help us try to straighten things out.
I do believe that God can and does call people today receive the gift of prophecy. However there also is a difference in prophecy as it was practiced in scripture, and prophecy as it applies today. In scripture the gift of prophecy was used in two ways, 1) to call people to return to God and to existing scripture and 2) to give the word of God to the people, that is to impart new scripture to the people. We know that Scripture, that is the word of God, is closed and no NEW revelation will be given. From this we know that no prophecy can be given (if it is the spirit of God) that deals with events in the future. That is no spirit of God driven person today will say "I see a revival" or "God will judge America in three months" or anything like that. Scripture is closed, therefore new revelation is also closed thus no prophet of God can do such. This leaves the other use of prophecy in scripture. That is to call people back to God using existing scriptures. This use of prophecy will send people out into mostly "christian" circles with the unique ability to see where the church (both the global and local) is lacking and the ability to get them back on track using scripture.
I also think that this has to do with the fact that the so called "five fold ministry" has changed in todays world. The different ministries that were in the bible have merged together, adapted, changed, evolved into different areas. The gifts of Apostleship is found in todays pastors, missionaries, and church planters. Pastor and teacher have molded into today's pastors, theologains, and educators. Todays apologists have gifts of pastor, evangelisist, teacher and prophecy. I could go on. But suffice to say that the ministries of today are different then they were in the bible. Different in form and function, but still having the same goal. And that is to spread the word of Christ Jesus to the world.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 1:39:16 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
quote:
F. Another thing to avoid is predicting specific detailed information or giving specific direction (dates, time frames, marriages, children, death, life, moving, jobs, etc., or basically, telling people what to do.) The reason why, as we said before, is because of the mixture of accuracy in our prophetic words. You should never act on a prophetic word; a word should only confirm what the Lord has already spoken to your own heart. http://www.ihop.org/Group/Group.aspx?ID=1000006106
the note on women in the prophectic guidelines
Why do I have the feeling that you could find this same sort of direction for a psycic hotline. Avoid specific details?!?!? Please that is what makes the prophecy of the Bible so unique is that its specific, very specific and does give, names, dates, very clear perdictions as opposed to vegue statements that could be interpreted any way. For goodness sake I could say there is going to be an earthquake in California by this direction and be prophecying since chances are someday there sill be an earthquake in California.
The reason they do not allow people with the gift of prophecy to give specific directives - like who you are to marry, dates, moving, jobs, etc., is because they believe that it is vitally important that believers are not encouraged to 'follow' prophets but instead are taught to seek out the guidance of the Holy Spirit for themselves. If all we had to do was go to a prophet to give us all our answers, then we would stop seeking Jesus for those answers and stop depending completely on Jesus. Then we WOULD be treating prophets like psychics. But with this rule in place, believers must hear their guidance from the Holy Spirit for themselves and only if they have heard for themselves could a prophetically gifted person be able to 'confirm' something for them. Because remember, we are suppose to all be growing up into maturity into Christ, which means we ALL must learn to hear the Holy Spirit and discern what He says to us for ourselves.
Edit to add
quote:
E. We also have guidelines concerning things to avoid while doing prophetic ministry. This includes prophesying about negative things (sin, the past, correcting, rebuking). Again, the prophetic is for “strengthening, encouragement, and comfort”. This the measuring line for how to share prophetic words. same place as previous quote
Well I guess acording to IHOP Paul was a bad prophet since he did a lot of rebuking in his epistles to the church. And we probably shouldn't quote the Bible to much since it is useful for teaching, reproof and correction acording to 2 Tim 3L16.
The reason those with the gift of prophecy are told NOT to correct and rebuke is because we believe that it is the pastors and elders place to bring correction. Unless it is someone in the office of a prophet, then they can bring correction to a church or pastor or nation. And there are some that have brought needed rebukes to the church in their prophecies, and they've brought very needed rebukes to other prophets, also (but I don't care to add their names to any of the disparaging remarks tonight.)
< Message edited by SD456 -- 12/4/2007 1:52:01 AM >
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 2:10:35 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
From this we know that no prophecy can be given (if it is the spirit of God) that deals with events in the future. That is no spirit of God driven person today will say "I see a revival" or "God will judge America in three months" or anything like that.
I appreciate your comments, Stephanos. But in honesty I do disagree with them. God hasn't changed. He has always been a God that has seasons, who does things in and through our lives and in and through history, and I believe He ALWAYS lets His prophetic people know what those seasons are in history. Just as God can speak to my heart and tell me why I might be in a season of dryness or that I'm heading for a season of blessing where things will become easier, God can tell the church the same type of words. He will always tell His prophets everything that He is doing.
Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.
God is the God of the future as well as the past. He does let some people know what the seasons ahead hold for us. He does this to get us praying and to prepare our hearts for whatever He is planning on doing. And I've known prophetic people to be extremely accurate. There is one prophet I know who prophecied about Katrina 6 weeks before it happened. He said publicly that woe is coming to New Orleans and that he sees bodies floating in the water (plus a few other things). There is also a prophet who called up a pastor in California several years back and told him that God wants to speak something to him and, so that this pastor would know that it is from God, an earthquake would hit southern california at a certain exact time and date. The earthquake hit exactly as the clock struck that minute on that exact date. It truly got the attention of this pastor.
God is phenomenal and extraordinary and still does things far beyond our imagining and our ability to understand. Sometimes that's the problem, we just can't grasp a God who does things that we don't understand with our neat and tidy intellect, everything in its rightful order, kind of thinking. The true God will blow off the socks of anyone who is willing to allow Him to show them.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 8:42:21 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1585
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
I find it sad, but funny, that almost every time a defender of WOF, modern day Prophets, Latter Rain, etc. comes in to the Theology forums here, they end up accusing those who disagree with them as either 1) spreading gossip, 2) having an axe to grind or 3) being anti-Charismatic/not believing in the Holy Spirit working today.
Then I guess we shall have to be equally sad. For I see that anytime that something supernatural occurs which some do not understand because it is out of their "box" of experience, then they are very quick to call people heretics and false christians. Being careful to not spread gossip and not listening to those who actually do have axes to grind is not exactly the same thing as calling people anti-christs and heretics. I believe that you have leaped to an entirely different level.
Only God knows the hearts of men and we are commanded to not judge others - meaning we are not to pronounce judgement on them as judge and jury, condemning them as 'guilty', 'going to hell', as only Christ knows that.
#1 - we are not called to judge the hearts of men, but there is a scriptural model for evaluating men's teachings
#2 - my guide for what is a legitimate move of the Holy Spirit is what is recorded in the Holy Bible. If it's not represented there and we are talking about a benign action (such as a different form of worship) I am unconcerned about it.
If it's a teaching or action (such as false prophecy) that appears to go against scripture, than I am concerned, and will act according to the biblical example of a Berean, holding it up to scripture for evaluation.
God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The three-in-one. The Spirit will not contridict the Father or the Son, or the written word of God as is it is meant to be understood (ie, not taken out of context or similar).
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 10:34:21 AM
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sue244
Posts: 529
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
From this we know that no prophecy can be given (if it is the spirit of God) that deals with events in the future. That is no spirit of God driven person today will say "I see a revival" or "God will judge America in three months" or anything like that.
I appreciate your comments, Stephanos. But in honesty I do disagree with them. God hasn't changed. He has always been a God that has seasons, who does things in and through our lives and in and through history, and I believe He ALWAYS lets His prophetic people know what those seasons are in history. Just as God can speak to my heart and tell me why I might be in a season of dryness or that I'm heading for a season of blessing where things will become easier, God can tell the church the same type of words. He will always tell His prophets everything that He is doing.
Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.
So what about the 400 silent years? It is acknowledged though all the writings of that time that there was not a prophet in Israel during those 400 years between the old and new testement.
And yet during that time the Sovereign Lord was doing things very clearly just by watching the rise and falls of empiers during those 400 years. He told Daniel what would happen so that fits with revealing His plans to the prophet, and we have John who has seen what will happen at the end so there is the plan to His prophet.
I would say though that the rest of scripture doesn't back you up in saying that prophets know everything God is doing. No one can possible know everything God is doing since God is Ominscience, Omnipresient, and Omnipotent and humans arn't.
Not to mention that if you look at that verse you quoted in context its clear that it is talking about God has warned Israel of Judgement though the prophets, they have no excuess for not knowing that they would be judged for their sins since they had been warned by the prophets time and time again. The judgement would surly come on them.
_____________________________
My country owes me nothing. It gave me, as it gives every boy and girl,
a chance. It gave me schooling, independence of action, opportunity for
service and honor.
Equal rights for all, special privileges for none.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 11:17:41 AM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2505
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Why distance yourself from the "KC Prophets thing" if there's nothing wrong with it? Because it was no longer marketable?
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
No, but simply because you let the dead dog lay...... if it isn't an argument worth having, don't keep bringing it up.
There are organizations and works born of the will of man, rather than the will of God. Older, colonial and antebellum brick buildings only went so high--two, perhaps three stories--because the weight of the bricks above would begin to crush the bricks below at a certain height. When a brick gets crushed the wall begins to crumble and the building comes down. Kansas City Prophets was promoted as something that "God" was doing and now is "an argument _not_ worth having". Perhaps the dead dog will bark as the brick crumbles..."Tim-ber-r-r-r!"
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Does anyone else find it vastly presumptous to create something called "God TV"?
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
About as presumptuous as saying that you are "fulfilling the great comission"....... or to call your network "American Broadcasting Company"....... Rory and Wendy are a different topic, God TV was not started by IHOP-KC, and God TV does not claim to have any kind of monopoly on God. That is also what we call a misnomer.
Why participate in it if it's wrong? Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Here's a quote from the first thread:
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
IHOP also runs about $20,000 a week in expenses due to the advent of GodTV broadcasting the prayer room, running electricity and A/C all day-every day, and work scholarship for people who are having difficulty rasing support. Mike does not get a Salary from IHOP, and neither do any of the leadership team. So yes, it is all about meekness and humility.
How humble is the public broadcast of the well-publicized "intimate" prayer? I don't argue with the red letters.
Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Several posters have asked "What's wrong with IHOP?", so let me ask, does it really line up with Matthew Chapter 6?
Matthew 6:1-18
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
Is not the very concept of the prayer house model in conflict with the above? It is to me more similar to this:
Genesis 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built.
Of this verse Wesley's notes says: Their distinction from the children of God, from whom those daring builders had separated themselves, and built this tower to support and perpetuate the separation.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 11:47:38 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
From this we know that no prophecy can be given (if it is the spirit of God) that deals with events in the future. That is no spirit of God driven person today will say "I see a revival" or "God will judge America in three months" or anything like that.
I appreciate your comments, Stephanos. But in honesty I do disagree with them. God hasn't changed. He has always been a God that has seasons, who does things in and through our lives and in and through history, and I believe He ALWAYS lets His prophetic people know what those seasons are in history. Just as God can speak to my heart and tell me why I might be in a season of dryness or that I'm heading for a season of blessing where things will become easier, God can tell the church the same type of words. He will always tell His prophets everything that He is doing.
Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.
So what about the 400 silent years? It is acknowledged though all the writings of that time that there was not a prophet in Israel during those 400 years between the old and new testement.
And yet during that time the Sovereign Lord was doing things very clearly just by watching the rise and falls of empiers during those 400 years. He told Daniel what would happen so that fits with revealing His plans to the prophet, and we have John who has seen what will happen at the end so there is the plan to His prophet.
I would say though that the rest of scripture doesn't back you up in saying that prophets know everything God is doing. No one can possible know everything God is doing since God is Ominscience, Omnipresient, and Omnipotent and humans arn't.
Not to mention that if you look at that verse you quoted in context its clear that it is talking about God has warned Israel of Judgement though the prophets, they have no excuess for not knowing that they would be judged for their sins since they had been warned by the prophets time and time again. The judgement would surly come on them.
I agree some with you. God does not reveal everything of Himself (in fact, it would take more than an eternity to ever find out everything about Him, if that is even possible!) And God doesn't always reveal the timing of every thing, as Jesus said only the Father would know when some things happen, even the Son didn't know. But that doesn't stop God from revealing what He wants when He wants. He still does that kind of stuff today. But then again, just because no prophecy was written down during those 400 years doesn't mean that God stopped speaking, it just meant He wasn't having anyone write it down. I believe that God is always speaking to people all the time, yet He doesn't require them all to record it historically. I believe that verse is a principle and that God was being matter of fact about His statement - He reveals what He does and will do to His prophets. I believe that verse, since it is a principle, is still in use today. God still does this.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 11:55:24 AM
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floydette
Posts: 697
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Matthew 6:1-18
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
Is not the very concept of the prayer house model in conflict with the above?
No this is not in conflict with the model of a house of prayer. The above scripture has it's context the Sermon on the Mount. In verse 5 Jesus is comparing the way that hypocrites pray to the way that we are to pray. He was using an example with which the people were familiar. Check out the other things he said about folks like the Pharisees, and you will see that they presented themselves one way and were actually "white-washed tombs" - looked good on the outside and dead on the inside. Jesus is teaching how to pray. He is not saying never pray in public - HE prayed in public. He was warning against why one does it and to guard oneself.
Check out 1 Chron 5 and 7 and you will see that when the glory of God came down those in the temple (priests - like us today - priesthood of all believers) fell down (after dancing and singing and praying) because the presence of the Lord was so powerful. There were is a place, calling on God's presence and God showed up. THIS is what the International House of Prayer is about!
IHOP was built for God's glory. Per God's direction. If you don't like it, that is really too bad, but in the big picture it really doesn't matter. God will do what God will do, and as Gamaliel said, you just can't stop it.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 12:05:39 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2505
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
God will do what God will do, and as Gamaliel said, you just can't stop it.
I think this is the second time I've seen Gamaliel quoted, so I must point out that the man was not a Christian. Here is the result of Gamaliel's cousel:
Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 12:10:01 PM
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floydette
Posts: 697
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
God will do what God will do, and as Gamaliel said, you just can't stop it.
I think this is the second time I've seen Gamaliel quoted, so I must point out that the man was not a Christian. Here is the result of Gamaliel's cousel:
Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
No problem then strike it from my post. The post stands on it's own without using. I find it interesting that the only thing you have to say is that. 
Besides as Gamaliel was a teacher and a Jew, I am guessing he had a pretty good idea of the workings of God. And as far as being a Christian, we don't know how that panned out.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 12:31:31 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 2719
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
God will do what God will do, and as Gamaliel said, you just can't stop it.
I think this is the second time I've seen Gamaliel quoted, so I must point out that the man was not a Christian. Here is the result of Gamaliel's cousel:
Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
No problem then strike it from my post. The post stands on it's own without using. I find it interesting that the only thing you have to say is that.
Besides as Gamaliel was a teacher and a Jew, I am guessing he had a pretty good idea of the workings of God. And as far as being a Christian, we don't know how that panned out.
Do you think it's safe to assume anyone behind the pulpit or on the platform is a Christian? Paul wouldn't have needed to undergo so much prayer, persecution, or to write so much if he had adopted such assumptions without examining their doctrines...
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 12:51:57 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1398
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
Mike does not get a Salary from IHOP, and neither do any of the leadership team. So yes, it is all about meekness and humility.
If I may expound a bit on this:
According to IHOP's website, the "staff" must raise their own support...$700/month for singles, $1400 for couples, $1600 for couples with children, and $1400 for singles with children
In order to be considered for a "staff" position, one must participate in at least one of the following "Internship" Programs:
*Introduction to IHOP - Cost to potential "staff" members: $900 single/$1,400/couple
*Fire in the Night - Cost to potential "staff" members: $1,900
*One Thing - Cost to potential "staff" members: $4,900
*Simeon - Cost to potential "staff" members: $550 single/$950/couple
*Forerunner School of Ministry or Forerunner Music Academy - Looks like they are very intensive programs and IHOP does not list the cost of these on the website.
So, it looks to me like one must "pay" IHOP to serve as an "Intern" in order to become a "staff" member that doesn't get a salary.
Also interesting to note is that on the site the "staff" is encouraged to obtain housing through "Glad Heart Realty" which is run by Bickle's wife.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone is making money on this deal.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 1:22:17 PM
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floydette
Posts: 697
Status: offline
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Jimbo, let me clarify what I was saying. Being a Pharisee, a teacher of the law (and Paul), the leading authority in the Sanhedrin, etc. it is a good guess that Gamaliel understood the ways of God. He probably had a good understanding (although at the point of Acts 5, it could have been a pre-Christian understanding) how God worked. I did not talk about the doctrines of Gamaliel. Only the probably understanding of how God worked.
The verse that wintery quoted made it sound (to me at least) as if Gama was the one who said they should beat the apostles. If you look at vs 33, the Sanhedrin wanted to KILL the apostles - and Gama spoke, and "his speech persuaded them" so they did NOT kill them, but only beat them. Gotta read the entire passage. He was FOR the apostles, not against them.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 2:16:14 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1398
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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Here is an interesting first-hand account from an ex-IHOP member which confirms much of what has been said in opposition to Bickle/IHOP in this thread and more:
"I'd been attending their school, FSM (FORERUNNER SCHOOL OF MINISTRY) for almost two years, taking everything in, journaling everything, and TESTING everything against scripture. There are so many false doctrines taught there, its not even funny. For example:
1. They uphold teachings of Mystics and false prophets.
2. They teach/practice DELIVERANCE for/on CHRISTIANS frequently (casting out demons).
3. I've seen "CHRISTIANS" manifest demons more times than i can count.
4. I've seen/they teach Odd, unbiblical manifestations that they claim are from the "Holy Spirit."
5. They twist scriptures and take them out of context to fit their wacked-out doctrines and have excuses for everything. The most dangerous being, "The Holy Spirit loves to offend the mind, that's how you know its from God!"
6. Generational curses being the cause of habitual sin and sickness in Born-again Christians (they blame demons for literally everything, even talk to them!)
7. Completely unbiblical veiw/practice of "prophesy" which works much more like spiritist, psychic, medium stuff and not actual prophesy. What's worse is Mike Bickle teaches that its OKAY to falsly prophesy.
But this isn't even why I say it is a cult! (YEAH, IT ACTUALLY GETS WORSE!!!)
As I previously stated, I was a student at FSM, until a series of events left me in a small office with 3 people. At this point I was aware of false prophesies, doctrines, and teachings. I began to warn people, adamently, to "TEST EVERYTHING! Don't believe anything unless u see it, IN CONTEXT, in the Bible. Just because something is real, doesn't mean its from God..." So, leadership obviously got word that I'd been doing this and I was brought into an office.
In this office, they gave me a laundry list of things wrong with me (mostly from my past), and said that I have a problem with authority. Then they began to use smooth words to try and twist the situation and manipulate me by saying, "It's not your fault, you just need help. But we are for you! We love you! And we are going to help you." This is when they proceeded to tell me that I needed healing and deliverance from the authority issues which stem from having a bad relationship with my dad (which isnt even true). So, in order to recieve this "healing and deliverance" they were going to SEND ME AWAY to Toronto, where the Toronto blessing was. They smoothly threatened me not to tell my parents (without them being there) and to recieve this news with "a humble heart" so as not to "speak evil of their authority" to anyone. If this isn't CULT action, then I sure as heck dunno what is!
Mind you, I had just bought a house so that I could help ihop people in need. I had been mentoring a few of my roomies who were brand new christians and came outta bad living situiations. So THEN, after ALL OF THAT nonsense, they call my roommates into their office, completely slander me, tell them to wait until I am gone, move out of my house, and then send me an email to let me know they've left. They commanded that their meeting be completely confidential from everyone."
Link
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 3:31:46 PM
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floydette
Posts: 697
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
Mike does not get a Salary from IHOP, and neither do any of the leadership team. So yes, it is all about meekness and humility.
If I may expound a bit on this:
According to IHOP's website, the "staff" must raise their own support...$700/month for singles, $1400 for couples, $1600 for couples with children, and $1400 for singles with children
In order to be considered for a "staff" position, one must participate in at least one of the following "Internship" Programs:
*Introduction to IHOP - Cost to potential "staff" members: $900 single/$1,400/couple
*Fire in the Night - Cost to potential "staff" members: $1,900
*One Thing - Cost to potential "staff" members: $4,900
*Simeon - Cost to potential "staff" members: $550 single/$950/couple
*Forerunner School of Ministry or Forerunner Music Academy - Looks like they are very intensive programs and IHOP does not list the cost of these on the website.
So, it looks to me like one must "pay" IHOP to serve as an "Intern" in order to become a "staff" member that doesn't get a salary.
Also interesting to note is that on the site the "staff" is encouraged to obtain housing through "Glad Heart Realty" which is run by Bickle's wife.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone is making money on this deal.
What about the thousands of dollars being paid to various Christian schools, universities, seminaries, conferences, church staff, curriculum budgets, missionaries, etc, etc? Life isn't free.
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/4/2007 4:03:00 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1398
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
What about the thousands of dollars being paid to various Christian schools, universities, seminaries, conferences, church staff, curriculum budgets, missionaries, etc, etc? Life isn't free.
The point was that in order to qualify to become an unpaid "staff" member at IHOP, one must pay to go to their schools, universities, conferences and internships. Not to mention that all they teach there is Bickle's false doctrine. It would be surprising if IHOP supports other missionaries when they make their own "staff" live off of their own raised missionary support. Oh, and church staff...no one gets paid including Bickle himself, remember? You are absolutely correct...life certainly isn't free for anyone who desires to be on "staff" at IHOP.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/5/2007 1:34:43 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
God will do what God will do, and as Gamaliel said, you just can't stop it.
I think this is the second time I've seen Gamaliel quoted, so I must point out that the man was not a Christian. Here is the result of Gamaliel's cousel:
Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
I don't believe you have to be a christian to have wise counsel. And because of Gamaliel's words, they were not killed, only beaten. Which they were probably thankful for. I agree with Floydette. God will do whatever God wants to do with whomever He wants and it will look exactly like He wants it to look like, regardless of whose minds it offends. God is not worried about offending our sensibilities.
quote:
Check out 1 Chron 5 and 7 and you will see that when the glory of God came down those in the temple (priests - like us today - priesthood of all believers) fell down (after dancing and singing and praying) because the presence of the Lord was so powerful. There were is a place, calling on God's presence and God showed up. THIS is what the International House of Prayer is about!
IHOP was built for God's glory. Per God's direction. If you don't like it, that is really too bad, but in the big picture it really doesn't matter.
Ditto...
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MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/5/2007 1:40:42 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
Mike does not get a Salary from IHOP, and neither do any of the leadership team. So yes, it is all about meekness and humility.
If I may expound a bit on this:
According to IHOP's website, the "staff" must raise their own support...$700/month for singles, $1400 for couples, $1600 for couples with children, and $1400 for singles with children
In order to be considered for a "staff" position, one must participate in at least one of the following "Internship" Programs:
*Introduction to IHOP - Cost to potential "staff" members: $900 single/$1,400/couple
*Fire in the Night - Cost to potential "staff" members: $1,900
*One Thing - Cost to potential "staff" members: $4,900
*Simeon - Cost to potential "staff" members: $550 single/$950/couple
*Forerunner School of Ministry or Forerunner Music Academy - Looks like they are very intensive programs and IHOP does not list the cost of these on the website.
So, it looks to me like one must "pay" IHOP to serve as an "Intern" in order to become a "staff" member that doesn't get a salary.
Also interesting to note is that on the site the "staff" is encouraged to obtain housing through "Glad Heart Realty" which is run by Bickle's wife.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone is making money on this deal.
I don't see any problems with this. Doesn't one have to pay to do missionary work through YWAM? It costs apprx $3000 to do a 6 mnth DTS with Youth With A Mission. Or any other organization? Doesn't it cost to do an internship with Overseas Missions? Of course it does. All missionary organizations have costs and each person MUST raise their own support. There is nothing new to this concept.
Wow, you really stretch things to try make them all look like crooks, even the wives aren't free of how far you go. That's very sad, very, very sad 
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MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/5/2007 1:52:41 AM
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SD456
Posts: 362
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Here is an interesting first-hand account from an ex-IHOP member which confirms much of what has been said in opposition to Bickle/IHOP in this thread and more:
"I'd been attending their school, FSM (FORERUNNER SCHOOL OF MINISTRY) for almost two years, taking everything in, journaling everything, and TESTING everything against scripture. There are so many false doctrines taught there, its not even funny. For example:
1. They uphold teachings of Mystics and false prophets.
2. They teach/practice DELIVERANCE for/on CHRISTIANS frequently (casting out demons).
3. I've seen "CHRISTIANS" manifest demons more times than i can count.
4. I've seen/they teach Odd, unbiblical manifestations that they claim are from the "Holy Spirit."
5. They twist scriptures and take them out of context to fit their wacked-out doctrines and have excuses for everything. The most dangerous being, "The Holy Spirit loves to offend the mind, that's how you know its from God!"
6. Generational curses being the cause of habitual sin and sickness in Born-again Christians (they blame demons for literally everything, even talk to them!)
7. Completely unbiblical veiw/practice of "prophesy" which works much more like spiritist, psychic, medium stuff and not actual prophesy. What's worse is Mike Bickle teaches that its OKAY to falsly prophesy.
But this isn't even why I say it is a cult! (YEAH, IT ACTUALLY GETS WORSE!!!)
As I previously stated, I was a student at FSM, until a series of events left me in a small office with 3 people. At this point I was aware of false prophesies, doctrines, and teachings. I began to warn people, adamently, to "TEST EVERYTHING! Don't believe anything unless u see it, IN CONTEXT, in the Bible. Just because something is real, doesn't mean its from God..." So, leadership obviously got word that I'd been doing this and I was brought into an office.
In this office, they gave me a laundry list of things wrong with me (mostly from my past), and said that I have a problem with authority. Then they began to use smooth words to try and twist the situation and manipulate me by saying, "It's not your fault, you just need help. But we are for you! We love you! And we are going to help you." This is when they proceeded to tell me that I needed healing and deliverance from the authority issues which stem from having a bad relationship with my dad (which isnt even true). So, in order to recieve this "healing and deliverance" they were going to SEND ME AWAY to Toronto, where the Toronto blessing was. They smoothly threatened me not to tell my parents (without them being there) and to recieve this news with "a humble heart" so as not to "speak evil of their authority" to anyone. If this isn't CULT action, then I sure as heck dunno what is!
Mind you, I had just bought a house so that I could help ihop people in need. I had been mentoring a few of my roomies who were brand new christians and came outta bad living situiations. So THEN, after ALL OF THAT nonsense, they call my roommates into their office, completely slander me, tell them to wait until I am gone, move out of my house, and then send me an email to let me know they've left. They commanded that their meeting be completely confidential from everyone."
Link
This post definately speaks volumes about the young man. In fact, it speaks much more about this young man than it does about IHOP.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: I need info on IHOP with Mike Bickle! Please! - 12/5/2007 3:47:52 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 168
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
You might want to try posting the entire verse:
1 Sam 16:6 When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliah and THOUGHT, "Surely the Lord's anointed stands here before the Lord"
Now, I know you know better than this. In that verse, Samuel did not say: 'The Lord God has said...". Samuel did not give any prophecy to anyone. In fact, Samuel did not even speak. He had a THOUGHT TO HIMSELF. Do you understand that you are adding to scripture to uphold your views? Neither here nor there. NKJV, KJV, and ASV all said that he said it. NIV says he thought it. Actual Hebrew word is 'amar which, according to Strongs says, "a primative root; to say". Sounds like he said it to me.quote:
Why do I have the feeling that you could find this same sort of direction for a psycic hotline. Avoid specific details?!?!? Please that is what makes the prophecy of the Bible so unique is that its specific, very specific and does give, names, dates, very clear perdictions as opposed to vegue statements that could be interpreted any way In case you missed it, IHOP is drawing a line between Biblical Prophecy (Jeremiah, Isaiah, those guys) and simple prophecy which is for "edification, exhoration, and comfort to men." (1Corinthians 14) Now, unless someone would like to make a case that the words of Malachi, Amos, and Jeremiah fall into those three catagories, there is a difference.quote:
Well I guess acording to IHOP Paul was a bad prophet since he did a lot of rebuking in his epistles to the church. And we probably shouldn't quote the Bible to much since it is useful for teaching, reproof and correction acording to 2 Tim 3L16. Different scenario. Paul was an apostle, meaning at any given time he was wearing the hat of the other four ministries. Paul, as an apostle, had authority over the churches he planted (much like being a pastor to pastors). I, on the other hand, do not have any kind of spiritual authority over anyone else in a church, at IHOP, or at anywhere else. So for me to declare to someone that they are in deep sin, they are in danger of being forsaken by God, and are a cancer on whatever body they are a part of is just incorrect. It does not benefit the person I'm speaking to (because they will more than likely pass me off as a fruitcake), and it doesn't benefit myself either (because then I get hurt when God doesn't smite them and they don't listen to me). What does Paul say about prophecy? "The man who prophesies edifies the church." That is the big point. If it is not edification, exhortation and comfort, then it is out of the league of ordinary Christians and is reserved for the Office of a Prophet. The simple prophecy which is for the edification, exhoration, and comfort, that is what is practiced daily at IHOP. We also give room for people who might have a stronger prophetic gifting (IE, seeing a vision of God calling a city to repentance), but that is another that does no one any real harm. However, the bigger stuff (IE, natural disasters, coming judgement on sin, signs in the heavens) are reserved for people who are Prophets (as in, office of). Since a Prophet will have a proven track record of hearing God accurately, that is why we tell ordinary people to not even go there.quote:
Yes, you are teaching people to become prophets... false prophets. This is a fundamental difference in doctrine that you are obviously not going to budge on, so I will give the official IHOP stance one more time. We are NOT teaching people to be prophets, we are teaching people to (A) operate in simple prophesy and (B) develope their ability to hear God. The number of people that will be operating in the OFFICE OF A PROPHET will be a very small number at best, so the idea of teaching 500+ people to be one is highly foolish at best.quote:
1. Their words do not come to pass. [Deut 18:20-21, Jer 23:22] Are we even talking about the International House of Prayer anymore? IHOP is not the "dreaded" KCP. IHOP does not put forth prophesies as a house, rather, any words that you speak are on your own head.quote:
2. They do not bring God's word in full. [Jer 23:21, Jer 23:26] Since you already called into question my use of context, I shall return the favor. Jeremiah 23 is dealing with people claiming to be prophets preaching peace and prosperity to people when the Word of the Lord was to repent in dust and ashes. Hence the use of the phrase, "I did not send these prophets, but they ran." The verses you quote are specifically referring to people who were encouraging the people they were ministering to to sin. If anyone at IHOP is publically encouraging another to sin, then they will get called out on it by any number of people.quote:
3. They brings only lies of good news. [Isa 30:9-10, Jer 23:16-17] Untrue. Lies would telling ABC when God did not say ABC. For example, if God tells you "I'm calling this person to repent of (insert sin here)," and you subsequently tell the person, "I feel like God wants you to know that he is inviting you to love Him deeper and give more of yourself to Him..." (A), it's not a lie, rather a rephrasing and (B) if God has been talking to that person already, you have confirmed what God has already said. If God hasn't been talking to that person, (A) it's true, because God desires that all come to Him more, and (B) it gets the person thinking about how they can love God more. If you see an actual problem with that, then I feel very sorry for you. Now, you would be quite right if Staff member Joe was running around telling people "Thus saith the Lord, America will know peace by New Years", and yet we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan on January 1st.quote:
no its their associations that have me more worried. Although there prophet school is cause for raised eyebrows. I've asked fur, to defind prophet, if its forth telling or fore telling and have not got an answer yet. But by reading IHOPs thing I would say its the former which to me is a contridtiction. Depends on which definition you want... dictionary, Bible, or none of the above. The Dictionary definition of a Prophet is one who prophesies future events (think Nostradamus). The Bible declares a Prophet is one who hears and delivers the Word of the Lord, performs signs and miracles (such as Elijah and the rain), declares a thing and it comes to pass (such as Elijah and Naaman), prophesies future events (such as Joel 1), and has the purpose of turning the people back to God. The Bible also declares a False Prophet as one who presents an incorrect message (peace, peace, when there is none) as the Word of the Lord, declares a thing and it doesn't come to pass (Deut. 28), and has the purpose of turning people away from God (whether that be towards the prophet or towards the people themselves). Now, IHOP has the stated mission of turning people towards God (through night and day intercession and fasting), they say that they are part of a larger movement that God is raising up (which is true, as noted earlier), and that Jesus is returning soon (Jesus said as much when He left). So really, feel free to take issue with the various people at IHOP, and call them false prophets if you must (lets face it, Mike wouldn't even defend himself if he was here), but the actual mission of IHOP is ironclad AGAINST the false prophet claim.quote:
I do believe that God can and does call people today receive the gift of prophecy. However there also is a difference in prophecy as it was practiced in scripture, and prophecy as it applies today. In scripture the gift of prophecy was used in two ways, 1) to call people to return to God and to existing scripture and 2) to give the word of God to the people, that is to impart new scripture to the people. We know that Scripture, that is the word of God, is closed and no NEW revelation will be given. From this we know that no prophecy can be given (if it is the spirit of God) that deals with events in the future. That is no spirit of God driven person today will say "I see a revival" or "God will judge America in three months" or anything like that. Scripture is closed, therefore new revelation is also closed thus no prophet of God can do such. Stephanos, I respect your opinion (particularly your honesty and humility, as I noted earlier). To be just as honest and humble, I will say that I disagree with your definition of Biblical prophecy being too broad. I agree, the Bible is closed, so new subject material for Christian doctrine and theology is over and done with... Prophesying future events? Not so much. Why do I say so? Because IMO, there is a major difference between saying "I have seen revival coming to America" and telling people something new about the nature of God that isn't in the Bible already. Put yourself in that situation without thinking about it too hard.... what would your reaction be if you didn't have a theological understanding now? "Revival is coming? Cool...." Compare that to "God is a woman?! Dang! Mary was a lesbian!" Extreme example, I know, but it gets my point across. Predicting future events does not actually change doctrine, but can cause people to repent. Since causing people to repent is one of the qualified uses of prophesy, I think it makes more sense to not say that that is ended.quote:
#1 - we are not called to judge the hearts of men, but there is a scriptural model for evaluating men's teachings Stateofgrace, this is true, but often one leads to the other. Unfortunate, but also true. I don't object to questions, honest enquiries, or some challenges. What I do object to is calling people "charlatans, hucksters, false prophets, wolves" and the like. That being said, Mike Bickle is an amazing man of God. He is in the prayer room way more than myself (due to not having enough monthly support to go full-time), he studies the Bible like no one else I have seen, honest as the day is long, and one of the most faithful people I have ever run across.quote:
#2 - my guide for what is a legitimate move of the Holy Spirit is what is recorded in the Holy Bible. If it's not represented there and we are talking about a benign action (such as a different form of worship) I am unconcerned about it. I'm encouraged.... IHOP's basis is worship of God and prayer to the same. Amazing how often that gets lost in the shuffle.quote:
Just be careful that you aren't so open-minded that your brains fall out... Cliche's..... always an amazing word exercise, no?quote:
There are organizations and works born of the will of man, rather than the will of God. Older, colonial and antebellum brick buildings only went so high--two, perhaps three stories--because the weight of the bricks above would begin to crush the bricks below at a certain height. When a brick gets crushed the wall begins to crumble and the building comes down. Kansas City Prophets was promoted as something that "God" was doing and now is "an argument _not_ worth having". Perhaps the dead dog will bark as the brick crumbles..."Tim-ber-r-r-r!" So..... your point was? IHOP is NOT the KCP. I can't make that any clearer unless I spell out the acronyms. The KCP happened back in the 1980's, and IHOP started 1999. On a side note, I'm amazed nobody ever does research into Ernie Gruen (the pastor who actually started the KCP controversey), but people love to pick at Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, and Paul Cain. I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but there you go.quote:
Why participate in it if it's wrong? Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Wait a minute...... first off, God TV is a different topic. Second, they aren't taking God's name in vain. Aside from the fact that "god" is a title and not a name, Rory and Wendy are striving to put together a network that is centered on God. So, you are reading through the sattelite listings and you have USA net, A&E, BET, GODTV. It's really not as dark and sadistic as it sounds. quote:
How humble is the public broadcast of the well-publicized "intimate" prayer? I don't argue with the red letters.
Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Several posters have asked "What's wrong with IHOP?", so let me ask, does it really line up with Matthew Chapter 6? You notice, first, it ain't well publicized. You're average Christian in America knows nothing about GodTV, Rory and Wendy Alec, or IHOP-KC. The prayer room is really our living room. There are cameras in our living room now, but it is still our living room. We aren't praying for the cameras, we were doing that 8 years before GodTV even knew we existed. Secondly, nobody is at IHOP-KC to become famous for how well we play our instruments, sing, or pray. We are at IHOP-KC to pray. If we take your understanding of Matthew 6, we couldn't even pray IN CHURCH because we are in public and people might see us. Matthew 6 is not an encouragement to become recluses (that's what the Branch Davidians and Jonestown crew got off into), it rather is an encouragement to not be living the Christian life specifically to be seen and adored by men.quote:
According to IHOP's website, the "staff" must raise their own support...$700/month for singles, $1400 for couples, $1600 for couples with children, and $1400 for singles with children Welcome back to the thread Kat..... I was afraid you had actually left. The monetary requirements are actually legal requirements according to minimum wage. Since being on staff is literally being hired by a non-profit organization, you have to be able to show that you are paying taxes, which is done by raising support.quote:
In order to be considered for a "staff" position, one must participate in at least one of the following "Internship" Programs:
*Introduction to IHOP - Cost to potential "staff" members: $900 single/$1,400/couple
*Fire in the Night - Cost to potential "staff" members: $1,900
*One Thing - Cost to potential "staff" members: $4,900
*Simeon - Cost to potential "staff" members: $550 single/$950/couple
*Forerunner School of Ministry or Forerunner Music Academy - Looks like they are very intensive programs and IHOP does not list the cost of these on the website.
So, it looks to me like one must "pay" IHOP to serve as an "Intern" in order to become a "staff" member that doesn't get a salary.
Also interesting to note is that on the site the "staff" is encouraged to obtain housing through "Glad Heart Realty" which is run by Bickle's wife.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone is making money on this deal. You done yet? Now, the reason for the things you mentioned. The cost of the internships is because of (A) materials (B) cost of the rooms used such as electricity (C) in the case of the Fire in the Night and OneThing interns, they are housed and fed by IHOP. So, for the measly sum of $1900, you can take three months to go live in a rent free apartment, get fed three meals a day six days a week (Tuesday being a corporate fast day, you don't have to, but you will have to buy food yourself), have no rent or utilities, take two classes at the Bible college, get several edifying books (including Unger's Bible Handbook), and have five classes designed entirely for the internship. The OneThing internship, is six months long, and houses fewer interns to a room, hence, the higher cost. IHOP will only allow you to join staff unless you have been through one of the internships, because then you have learned the basic values of IHOP, you have already spent at least 3 1/2 months (Intro to IHOP) in the prayer room, and we already have an idea of what kind of person you are (IE, not a closet Satanist).
As for not getting a salary.... how is that any different from volunteering with the Sunday School at church? We aren't asking people to give up anything to come here. We say if you want to come visit, fine... if you want to go on staff, here is the proceedure. If you don't want to stay after seeing what it takes to get on staff, that's fine too. It's really quite unassuming.
The staff are also encouraged to find housing through Glad Heart because (A) staff members are given a discount and (B) Glad Heart gives the vast majority of it's profits to the International House of Prayer. As I said, we raise support because we are missionaries, and because it puts an axe to your "I can do it myself!" type pride. IHOP itself uses whatever funds it has available to upkeep of the facilities, producing more of our materials (cds, books, dvd's, the webstream, GodTV broadcasts), and helping to support other ministries. So I am currently working about 30 hours a week at a local Retail store doing security (make about $9 an hour for it), then I have made a voluntary commitment to 24 hours a week at the prayer room (for which I do not get paid by IHOP). So, all is said and done, it adds up to almost a 60 hour work week, and I'm trying to raise support so I can go full-time at the prayer room (50 hour commitment). You want a break down of my day? On a day I have to go to work, I'm up around 1:45 PM, I'm in my car by 2:10, at work until 10:30-ish, drive 20 minutes home, take an hour or two to dial down, and then drive to the prayer room where I'm awake and praying until 6 AM. That's four of my seven days of the week.
For all of his "profiteering" from his various sources of income, Mike Bickle... the internationally known speaker, author, "false prophet"..... lives in a duplex and drives a ratted out honda. I'm not kidding. If the man is making millions and stashing it somewhere, it's buried in his back yard. What does he do with it all? He gives like a maniac. He gives back to IHOP, he gives to people who have needs, and he sends money to other prayer rooms (like IHOP-Atlanta).quote:
Here is an interesting first-hand account from an ex-IHOP member which confirms much of what has been said in opposition to Bickle/IHOP in this thread and more And I am what.............. a lier? A shady, despicable character misrepresenting the truth? How many people have left the church saying it was a lie? Do you believe all of those people? You are into first hand accounts.... great! I am a first hand account as a current staff member. You are so quick to believe anybody who confirms what you think, it is disheartening. Remember the whole "running to other doctrines" and "having tingling ears" thing? I can produce ten links of people who love IHOP just as quickly as you can put up links of people who don't. So it really doesn't matter to me.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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