Mother Flees to avoid Public School (Full Version)

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Flintejae -> Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 4:00:33 PM)

I am really struggling with this story and I'd like others opinions.

Here is a link to the story:

LINK TO STORY

I think it's ridiculous that the judge is stating that she'll lose custody, but I find it even MORE appalling that she'd drive her children on a bus over 50 hours to an empty home to avoid putting her children in public school. That seems a bit rash and abusive in it's own context.

What do you think?



WesP -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 4:13:37 PM)

I support her in her advocacy of homeschooling her children, and I find the order by the judge to be reprehensible. That being said, it would behoove her and the children if she was more responsible in planning a departure that would be accommodating to the family's comfort and stability.



laura... -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 4:14:35 PM)

Is there a link to the story on another site? I believe that site must be World News Daily (or whatever) because my access to it is blocked. Which leads me to wonder if the story is legit.



Flintejae -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 4:17:47 PM)

hm. The only articles I can find are on worldnetdaily. Why woudl that make this article false?



laura... -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 4:30:14 PM)

Just because it isn't anywhere else.



cow451 -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:01:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flintejae

hm. The only articles I can find are on worldnetdaily. Why woudl that make this article false?

Because WorldNutDaily is notoriously unreliable.



ctipton -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:03:47 PM)

Here is another site, but I cannot vouch for it.

http://senatesite.com/blog/2007/12/friends-of-mafi.html

And it has been a topic on at least one talk show.
http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/shows/2007/12/homeschool_persecution_in_utah.php

I would think that there is enough legitimacy to the story that a quick investigation showed that the basic events have occurred.



Flintejae -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:09:44 PM)

I also heard it on the news with my Christian Radio station. I'm not sure if that makes it more valid.

I just can't believe she uprooted her kids from any and all stability to prevent them from being in a public school - even short term.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:22:10 PM)

HERE is a link to a note on the message board where she had posted, according to the WND article. It doesn't say much.



Flintejae -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:27:56 PM)

Go Tricia. I can't seem to find much. I'm not good at this type of thing (sleuthing) to find stuff online.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:28:52 PM)

I clicked on the link in the WND article to take me to the message board, then looked under the prayer section, since I figure that's where she would've posted. [;)]



Flintejae -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:31:22 PM)

I wonder what that lds mormon thread they talked about?

I am an advocate of homeschooling, but I just don't see how this was beneficial to uproot them to Nothing. I know many strong christians who send their children to public schools. It just seems extreme to treat public school like a poison?



ctipton -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 6:47:14 PM)

While I am a strong advocate of the right of parents to homeschool, I think we should be cautious. I do not know about this particular parent, but we must be aware that abusive parents may wish to hide their failures by removing their children from public school. Again, I am not saying that this woman is anything but a wonderful parent, but the possibility exists and the story sounds like a fugitive. It sends up a red flag for me.



duffer1 -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 8:57:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctipton

While I am a strong advocate of the right of parents to homeschool, I think we should be cautious. I do not know about this particular parent, but we must be aware that abusive parents may wish to hide their failures by removing their children from public school. Again, I am not saying that this woman is anything but a wonderful parent, but the possibility exists and the story sounds like a fugitive. It sends up a red flag for me.


Ditto for me. Also, the number of parents who flee the jurisdiction of a Family Court order by moving to a different state is much more common than most people would realize. The surprising (not) thing is that in most cases the amount of proof is more than enough to prove neglect in areas of education or medical care or food/clothing/shelter.

One of the things that seems to be missing from this story is a mention whether or not this is the first time she has been in front of this judge. I suspect that it is not. If this judge has a predisposition against her, it is probably based upon multiple hearings in court, possibly over the course of many years.

Judges do get frustrated when they see the same parent in court for the same issue, often with the same children. I have witnessed judges give suspended sentences several times with the warning to the parent not to mess up again. Finally, the judge has to send the parent to jail or else he/she loses any & all credibility and power in the court system.



rainbowtvp -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 9:05:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctipton
While I am a strong advocate of the right of parents to homeschool, I think we should be cautious. I do not know about this particular parent, but we must be aware that abusive parents may wish to hide their failures by removing their children from public school. Again, I am not saying that this woman is anything but a wonderful parent, but the possibility exists and the story sounds like a fugitive. It sends up a red flag for me.


This woman, according to the limited info on the net, has been homeschooling for 10 years and the only "problem" was that the school district lost her affidavit this year.

As a homeschooling parent, I would do the same thing, to be honest. No one is forcing my children into public school if they don't want to be there. It has nothing to do with whether public school is harmful or not or whether other families use it with no problem. I have made this decision for my family and the government has no right to over rule this. She fulfilled th requirements of the law, & the judge overstepped his bounds.

So... she took a bus trip, sounds like an educational field trip to me!

I do hope it makes it to mainstream news so we can learn more about it.

Tara P



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/20/2007 10:58:20 PM)

I have not read the article and know nothing about the situation, but I will say that, since I believe I am supposed to homeschool, I will do what is necessary to be obedient to that. To do otherwise would be to sin (for me, not for every parent)

Fortunately, God has prevailed for me when various forces attempted to stop our homeschooling.



locomom -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 2:16:00 AM)

If stated correctly, the judges position that home schooling fails all the time is the real root of the problem. His opinions of the what a valid law passed by the state legislature and a valid right established by the Supreme Court of our nation based on our constitution are irrelevant. If he cannot make a ruling based on law over his own personal bias he should recuse himself. A judge is bound by the laws of this land not by his opinions.

Since absolutely no abuse is at issue, to move away is hardly abusive. People do it all the time. You may not be willing to drive a few days and move, but I see no reason she is wrong to do so. It is a personal choice. She believes it is right and best to educate her children in accordance with her faith. She does not believe in the public schools. While not a popular opinion, it is a valid one. I don't believe in the public schools where I live because they are lousy, according to their own statistics. We were called by God to educate our daughter at home.

Sadly enough, there are plenty of government officials that are willing to use their positions to exercise their personal beliefs. Also problematic are the number of times when home schoolers are harassed by public officials for doing what is legal in every state. Disagreement with the place of education is not a reason for this level of interference with the family. Why is the judge not demanding the parents prove how/where the children were educated in the year in question and demanding reasonable proof of their educational situation this year in any legally viable manner including public, private, home, hired tutor, or online school.



Kath -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 9:16:26 AM)

The threat of getting put in jail is scary, and I don't know what I would have done in this situation. What I don't understand is sleeping on the floor instead of checking into a motel. That is just ludicrous. If she has no money, does she not have relatives to borrow money from? Does the homeschooling defense group have some sort of emergency fund to help her? It didn't make me think of her as desperate, more like foolish.

But to comment on the story and not the situation, I thought the author went over the top to try and persuade when he pulled in Nazi Germany. It has nothing to do with her situation and was meant to provoke a panic response in the reader. It made me lose all respect for the author.



cow451 -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:04:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kath

The threat of getting put in jail is scary, and I don't know what I would have done in this situation. What I don't understand is sleeping on the floor instead of checking into a motel. That is just ludicrous. If she has no money, does she not have relatives to borrow money from? Does the homeschooling defense group have some sort of emergency fund to help her? It didn't make me think of her as desperate, more like foolish.

But to comment on the story and not the situation, I thought the author went over the top to try and persuade when he pulled in Nazi Germany. It has nothing to do with her situation and was meant to provoke a panic response in the reader. It made me lose all respect for the author.


One sign of a weak argument is the appearance of the words "Nazi", "Hiltler", etc. This woman may have very valid points. It would make more sense to enroll the child in a public school and fight the battle from there instead of going the martyr route.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:17:50 AM)

The problem with enrolling the child in PS and then fighting the issue is twofold:
First, if you are called to homeschool, then to put your child in PS is sinful, and secondly, one of the things judges use in their rulings is status quo--they don't like to change it without compelling reason. So a sensible judge could then say, "this child is in public school and there is no compelling reason to change the situation" instead of having to say there IS a compelling reason to force the child into school.

As for helpful relatives, when my ex husband left us, and when he sued me for custody TEN YEARS later and based this suit on the fact that the boys were 'uneducated' (which was a lie), helpful family members all said, "Why don't you just put the boys in school, it would be easy and solve all the problems!" Not that they don't love us or understand that we are firmly committed to homeschooling, just that they were raised in PS and are not called to HSing like I am.



Flintejae -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:22:04 AM)

So it's better to completely uproot your kids from all stability? No beds, nothing but the clothes on their backs?



cow451 -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:27:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

The problem with enrolling the child in PS and then fighting the issue is twofold:
First, if you are called to homeschool, then to put your child in PS is sinful,


If it were really a calling, God would be opening doors. It's too easy to take our own agendas and mistake them for God's will.



lexie -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:36:44 AM)

quote:

One of the things that seems to be missing from this story is a mention whether or not this is the first time she has been in front of this judge.


According to another article about this on the same site, this was not original reason why she was in court.

"However, when she appeared in court with her juvenile son to have the charges dismissed (under a case held in abeyance procedure) stemming from a clash among children, she suddenly was presented with four counts against her for failing to comply with the state's compulsory education requirement."

Link

While I am not a homeschooler, I do support people who choose to. However, I think what the woman did was a little extreme. I also think the judges comments about homeschooling are out of line. However, it seems to me from reading the above article that the state legislature is reviewing the case, that lawyers are waiting for paperwork and that the sentence of going to jail has not been handed down, so if the threat of being thrown in jail is not immediate, why did the lady feel the need to leave the state immediately.

I agree that the author went over the top with comparisons to Nazi Germany. If the case has to do with American laws, I think you need to keep the comments to American laws, and not bring in a country somewhere else in the world and how they feel about the issue to support your case.

Someone on the boards homeschooled their children in Germany, we'll have to hear their experience after the holidays!



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:42:34 AM)

I scanned the article but i thought the Germany referecne was in regard to recent arrests of homeschooling parents (mothers, actually). I should read better.

I can't imagine how upset and scared she must have been. But just up and running away from the problem, when she has the ability to fight it (as opposed to no options whatsoever, as is the case in Germany, for instance), seems impulsive and not very helpful.

I would fight that order tooth and nail, but using HSLDA and the proper procedures. I think my kids could survive a month or two in PS, as distasteful as that would be to me.



Kath -> RE: Mother Flees to avoid Public School (12/21/2007 11:47:07 AM)

quote:

I scanned the article but i thought the Germany referecne was in regard to recent arrests of homeschooling parents (mothers, actually). I should read better.


In the first paragraph about Germany the author mentioned Hitler.

What is going on in Germany isn't relevant to the USA. It was just included to scare people in to thinking we are heading the way of Nazis.



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