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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 3:56:03 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
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iSERVEaJEW
quote:
You seem have no idea what the Pharisees believed and taught concerning proselytism, so what makes you think you can understand the context of Acts 15?
If this remark were not so offensive, it would be quite funny.
Many people were offended by our Master and His disciples.
Now, if you know about the Pharisaical ideas concerning proselytism I hope you'll prove it. I'll ask you a very specific question for you and we'll see if you can answer it:
What exactly is the process the Pharisees would take a Gentile through who wanted to become a Jew back in the First Century? (HINT: If you look in that topic I referenced in my previous post you'll find the answer)
Greetings,
quote:
What exactly is the process
I haven’t read it ...yet...but wouldn’t that require a circumcision in the physical FLESH, much like Joseph as in the OT, he revealed himself to his brothers???
On the Spiritual side of the law, that example above is in opposite,
saying
Ro 3:20 - Show Context
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh (spiritual) will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
And again in Ga 2:16
So all in all…. the concept of the circumcision in the FLESH of the Pharisaical ideas concerning proselytism, is actually “not” referencing the Spiritual side…. but is more of a work, as it is written in
1Co 15:50 - Show Context
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption
So if flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom, neither can the circumcision in the physical FLESH cannot inherit the kingdom nor will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Other than the known health benefits…..the circumcisions in the physical FLESH…. Is…. in like manner to the ….water baptism,
Where one is an outward acknowledgment of salvation, and the other is an outward acknowledgment of sin.
Where both were of the outer court ministry.
Am I close??
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 4:13:27 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
LoyalGypsy - Check out post #7 in the following thread for the Rabbinical formula for making a "Jew".
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3259144/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3259144
Greetings,
Man Oh Man!!...the scriptures do come alive, and that was very interesting...
I need to say something a little off the subject, so I will post it over there.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 4:46:39 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
LoyalGypsy - Check out post #7 in the following thread for the Rabbinical formula for making a "Jew".
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3259144/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3259144
Greetings,
I stand corrected. The thread is here…LOL! 
quote:
This is also the false teaching that Paul was repeatedly fighting against.
Since I came in late on this one, I need to differentiate as to which what the false teaching that Paul was repeatedly fighting against.
.....Was it the brother and sister??? or the Rabbinic teaching of the Gentile conversion?
BECAUSE…
it is funny that this was mentioned, because only me and my wife know of this.
But on the very day after my deliverance or my conversion being that I have never read any part of the Bible
I spoke to my wife after receiving a word, (on the inside) a course of study, concerning Moses, Joseph, David, the prophets ...and the 12,
And while I was reading those ....in my Spirit I felt, and I said to wife that I bet each of us must have some Jewish in us.
So I went to the mirror just joking around to see, what I was looking for I don’t know, Marty Feldman...perhaps...LOL!!!
….This is a true story!! Testimony...just didn’t think it meant anything at the time.
I just found it “amazing” at this point…. that the conversion taught by the Rabbis as you mentioned in post 7 …. Just brought that back that remembrance…..that’s all!
Now I am worried about the false teaching you mentioned, because what I experienced seems to fit exactly into the Spiritual respects of what the Rabbis teach, as it seems…. 
Which could, now that I look at it ...be that grafting into the tree...so to speak 
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 4:59:39 PM
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iSERVEaJEW
Posts: 140
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From: Canada
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The important thing to realise is that Paul was teaching against the accepted norm. The Sages taught that a Gentile has to go through this ritual and "become a Jew" to worship the God of Israel. People who were God-fearers like Cornelius hadn't gone that far, for once a Gentile did go through that ritual the Rabbis considered him a Jew - Gentile no more! Of course, that is a bunch of nonsense that Paul exposed. This teaching of proselytism was a sneaky way of trying say that, sure we are saved by God's grace, but you ALSO have to do THIS to REALLY be saved. Pure hogwash! That's like people saying you can't be saved unless you're baptised.
The Torah has always had provisions for non-Jews to become covenant members. No one has to change their ethnicity, if that were possible, to be accepted into His family. For example, look at Numbers 15:14-16:
If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he {wishes to} make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do. {As for} the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns {with you,} a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.
In Hebrew, an alien/sojourner is a ger. This is a Gentile who has joined himself to Israel and is worshipping HaShem. The ger retains his ethnicity, yet he becomes a covenant member. There were many people like this with Moses and the other Hebrews (native-born) who came out of Egypt (Exodus 12:38).
_____________________________
Saved by His grace alone.
Called to be His disciple and imitating Him.
Keeping the Torah with zeal.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 6:02:50 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
The important thing to realise is that Paul was teaching against the accepted norm. The Sages taught that a Gentile has to go through this ritual and "become a Jew" to worship the God of Israel. People who were God-fearers like Cornelius hadn't gone that far, for once a Gentile did go through that ritual the Rabbis considered him a Jew - Gentile no more! Of course, that is a bunch of nonsense that Paul exposed. This teaching of proselytism was a sneaky way of trying say that, sure we are saved by God's grace, but you ALSO have to do THIS to REALLY be saved. Pure hogwash! That's like people saying you can't be saved unless you're baptised.
The Torah has always had provisions for non-Jews to become covenant members. No one has to change their ethnicity, if that were possible, to be accepted into His family. For example, look at Numbers 15:14-16:
If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he {wishes to} make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do. {As for} the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns {with you,} a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.
In Hebrew, an alien/sojourner is a ger. This is a Gentile who has joined himself to Israel and is worshipping HaShem. The ger retains his ethnicity, yet he becomes a covenant member. There were many people like this with Moses and the other Hebrews (native-born) who came out of Egypt (Exodus 12:38).
Greetings,
I see that...in more ways than one!!
Watch this.....and take your time with it...
What you have mentioned is also prophesied of, is that Paul was teaching against the accepted norm.
The revelation of that contradiction that Paul was addressing concerning the Hebrews, I had already give in
Post #: 2850
These contradictions are hidden from the norm unless one really pays attention to the context….
What was nailed above Jesus on the cross, ....is written in the languages of Hebrew, Greek and the last and still persisting in LATIN
DO you see the contradiction here….its plain as day …
21 Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'He said, "I am the King of the Jews." '
The contradiction is not visibaly seen by Pilate attributing Jesus, as the King of the Jews to spite the chief priests…
but that they wanted to twist to scripture to fit their agenda,
because Jesus never said that,
Jesus answered Pilate correctly to that fact in the testimony in Mt 27:11
11 Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" So Jesus said to him, "It is as you say." 12 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders,............ He answered nothing.
Which said a lot!!!!
The first in the order of contradiction in what Paul was addressing, was the Torah, as the Bible places that information first in order as it was nailed above the “head” of Jesus, and in that specific prophetic order.... of Hebrew (Torah)= chief priests of the Jews...Then Greek (Gospel) the book of Jude…. and.....the last and still persisting to this day… LATIN ….and we all know who they are in the book of revelation!!!
Ro 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Therefore in response..... 22 Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written." = no contradiction, what I have written, I have written
I believe Pilate knew more of the "Law of the word" and the prophecy of the Messiah, better than the Hebrews of that day!!!!
But then again most of the information concerning Pilate’s history cannot be found!! ….
But its "all" in the Bible....
I am with ya brother, and thank you again for the word!!
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 7:26:13 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1709
Status: offline
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quote:
What exactly is the process the Pharisees would take a Gentile through who wanted to become a Jew back in the First Century?
While this question has no bearing whatsoever on the matter of the applicability of the Law of Moses to Gentile believers, since the apostles and elders were not trying to appease Pharisees, but arrive at the truth by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, your answer is found in The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge:
quote:
5. Palestinian Proselytes.
From the account given by Josephus of the conversion of Izatea of Adiabene (Ant., XX., ii. 3-4), it is evident that Jewish proselytizers followed two distinct methods, one type requiring complete adhesion with circumcision as the sign of the covenant, and the other being satisfied with a leaning toward Judaism and the observance of certain of its usages.
In like manner there were two classes of proselytes: complete converts and quasi-converts, or circumcised and uncircumcised. This distinction may be paralleled with that found in Palestino-rabbinical Judaism as contrasted with Hellenistic Judaism. The former recognized as proselytes (or, more exactly, as "proselytes of righteousness") only those who had been fully received into the religious community of Israel by means of circumcision.
On this view was based the judgment of Paul when, in distinguishing between Jew and gentile, be regarded everyone who was circumcised as a Jew (Gal. v. 3); and this was also the opinion of Domitian when he ordered that the tax levied on Jews should also be collected from proselytes. The first requirement of Rabbi Trypho, in Justin, Trypho, viii., was circumcision; and the necessity of the rite is insisted upon in Talmudic anecdotes. The words of Christ in Matt. xxiii. 15, likewise refer to such circumcised proselytes, who were not originally very numerous. While Hillel made their reception easy, the sterner school of Shammai required a testing of their motives.
Only after preparatory instruction imparted by three scribes did the threefold ceremony of reception take place: circumcision, immersion, and sacrifice. The instruction was continued until the immersion, which occurred when the wound was healed. The three teachers were witnesses at the ceremony, and only with this bath of purification was the rite of admission completed.
It is, therefore, mentioned more often than circumcision itself, especially by the Hellenistic Jews, who renounced circumcision 281 but not the immersion that washed away the impurity of heathenism...
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/12/2008 8:00:37 PM
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iSERVEaJEW
Posts: 140
Joined: 3/29/2008
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
While this question has no bearing whatsoever on the matter of the applicability of the Law of Moses to Gentile believers...
According to the moderators of this site it does. They closed the other thread I created to discuss this specific issue and routed it to here. If you have an issue with that you can take it up with them.
Further, you fail to realise the PURPOSE for the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) if you don't understand that this topic has a significant place in understanding the relationship of the Torah to Gentiles.
Some men came down from Judea and {began} teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom [not law - obviously a reference to the teachings of the Sages] of Moses, you cannot be saved."...But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law [according to the Pharisees, the teachings of the Sages are ALSO the law of God] of Moses."..."Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke [the teachings of the Sages] which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? (Acts 15:1, 5, 10, NASB)
"They [scribes and Pharisees] tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with {so much as} a finger." (Matthew 23:4, NASB)
_____________________________
Saved by His grace alone.
Called to be His disciple and imitating Him.
Keeping the Torah with zeal.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 12:49:54 AM
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Anisavta
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Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
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My goodness Manna you crack me up!
If you read post #2837 you would see that I said I'd be back after sundown on Saturday.
I had a wonderful quiet, restful 24 hrs for body, soul and spirit. Y'all should try it sometime. You might find that instead of fighting against G~d's provisions you'd see how good they are for you. So now I'm silly enough to jump back into the frey.
What's with all the questions? I really don't think you want answers to learn things, but just so you hope I'll say something you can come against.
Who or what church specifically is cursing The Jews ?
I have never been to one.......anyone else here ?
Are you speaking of a particular denomination ?
I praise G~d you have never been to a church that (and I did not say curses Jews) has decided Jews are out of the equation. It's called Replacement Theology. I am going to let you do your own research on it if you are truly interested.
Believe me (or not) there are many churches out there that adhere to this doctrine.
This is not dealing with the Law so nuf said on that.
Who are the people who call themselves Christian that
aren't REALLY Christians as you make reference to ?
Are these folks who don't keep the rules as you do ?
You know exactly who I am talking about. Or I would think you would. With this question you are dangerously close to falling into the same line of questioning that the Pharisees did with Yeshua trying to trap Him.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 9:23:41 AM
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Coaster
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I find it rather comical that Christians are debating on who is or is not a Jew. Shouldn't you leave that to the Jews? When will you begin debating on who is or is not a Muslim?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 9:32:26 AM
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iSERVEaJEW
Posts: 140
Joined: 3/29/2008
From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Coaster
I find it rather comical that Christians are debating on who is or is not a Jew. Shouldn't you leave that to the Jews? When will you begin debating on who is or is not a Muslim?
1) It is very important to understand Rabbinic theology, as it has had a very big impact on the struggles the First Century ecclesia went through.
2) There are many Jews who are Christians.
_____________________________
Saved by His grace alone.
Called to be His disciple and imitating Him.
Keeping the Torah with zeal.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 9:55:47 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
While this question has no bearing whatsoever on the matter of the applicability of the Law of Moses to Gentile believers...
According to the moderators of this site it does. They closed the other thread I created to discuss this specific issue and routed it to here. If you have an issue with that you can take it up with them.
Further, you fail to realise the PURPOSE for the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) if you don't understand that this topic has a significant place in understanding the relationship of the Torah to Gentiles.
Some men came down from Judea and {began} teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom [not law - obviously a reference to the teachings of the Sages] of Moses, you cannot be saved."...But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law [according to the Pharisees, the teachings of the Sages are ALSO the law of God] of Moses."..."Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke [the teachings of the Sages] which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? (Acts 15:1, 5, 10, NASB)
"They [scribes and Pharisees] tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with {so much as} a finger." (Matthew 23:4, NASB)
Greetings,
quote:
he teachings of the Sages are ALSO the law of God] of Moses."..."Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke [the teachings of the Sages] which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Joh 18:37
AND
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
The way is looks by this passage Jesus was born under the law to redeem those under the Burden,
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, ""and they shall be My people.
My people is synonymous, if the Law is written on our hearts and if we are no longer a slave (or burdened)... but a son ….and if a son ….then an “heir of God through” Christ.
Then the Law is seen by God as being kept, God sees us keeping the Law as a Son through Christ and while being observed as a Son through Christ, so also an heir of God through Christ.
The Law has not disappeared....The Law is seen by God as being kept by Christ,
So when God sees us, He also must go through Christ, therefore sees us keeping the Law as Sons, which makes us an heir of God through Christ,
So in actuality, the Law is actually for us, not against us….for without the Law… God would not see His Son…. and that would not keep us from the wrath of God, according to the very same Law.
Joh 12:48 - Show Context
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words,(Torah) has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
With the Law and Jesus being in the middle (as that mediator) .... that places us... in Gods eyes concerning His wrath.... in position for the judgment seat of Christ by the witness of the HS…. instead of facing the wrath of God.
..I am I close??
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/13/2008 9:05:24 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 9:58:04 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Coaster
I find it rather comical that Christians are debating on who is or is not a Jew. Shouldn't you leave that to the Jews? When will you begin debating on who is or is not a Muslim?
Greetings,
That easy!!
I am waiting for that day!
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 10:15:04 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
My goodness Manna you crack me up!
I have been blessed with the joy of The Lord !!! It's contagious !!!quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
What's with all the questions? I really don't think you want answers to learn things, but just so you hope I'll say something you can come against. Well, it is a DISCUSSION board !!!
Some get on a soapbox and ramble endlessly, while some attack the messenger and ignore
the message itself. Others simply banter without substance or edification. I have learned after
years on site, some people question one's motives, while other's when pressed to explain their
particular beliefs are ill-equipped to do so, or simply lack desire or energy to do so. If you do
not like inquiries, that's cool. Some of us are inquisitive and hungry for wisdom.quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
quote:
Who or what church specifically is cursing The Jews ?
I have never been to one.......anyone else here ?
Are you speaking of a particular denomination ?
I praise G~d you have never been to a church that (and I did not say curses Jews) has decided Jews are out of the equation. It's called Replacement Theology. I am going to let you do your own research on it if you are truly interested.
Believe me (or not) there are many churches out there that adhere to this doctrine.
This is not dealing with the Law so nuf said on that.
OK, you brought it up however...Not being mean or smart-alecky, just factual. I am familiar with
RT, and I don't recall anything anti-Semitic. What did you hear and from what source?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
quote:
Who are the people who call themselves Christian that
aren't REALLY Christians as you make reference to ?
Are these folks who don't keep the rules as you do ?
You know exactly who I am talking about. Or I would think you would. With this question you are dangerously close to falling into the same line of questioning that the Pharisees did with Yeshua trying to trap Him.
OK, I get it...another accusation, combined with the usual unanswered question. Gentle reminder-this is a message board for learning,
strengthening, and exchanging ideas and beliefs. None of your posts answered any questions about law.
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 10:20:29 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Coaster
I find it rather comical that Christians are debating on who is or is not a Jew. Shouldn't you leave that to the Jews? When will you begin debating on who is or is not a Muslim?
Close...
Thread is about law (s), and what laws God requires keeping.
What do you think ?
Should one cling to Jewish tradition, ceremony, rituals,
heritage, customs, and laws ? What is "The Law" ?
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 10:58:13 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
On the Spiritual side of the law, that example above is in opposite,
saying
Ro 3:20 - Show Context
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh (spiritual) will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
And again in Ga 2:16
So all in all…. the concept of the circumcision in the FLESH of the Pharisaical ideas concerning proselytism, is actually “not” referencing the Spiritual side…. but is more of a work, as it is written in
1Co 15:50 - Show Context
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption
So if flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom, neither can the circumcision in the physical FLESH cannot inherit the kingdom nor will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Other than the known health benefits…..the circumcisions in the physical FLESH…. Is…. in like manner to the ….water baptism,
Where one is an outward acknowledgment of salvation, and the other is an outward acknowledgment of sin.
LG
Hey LG...enjoy your posts ! 
The reference in Galatians 2 & 3 is important as you say.
Those who were "saved" as Christians, were coerced
or guilted into the requirement of following the law.
Consequently, they "fell" from grace to law.
This other gospel, is not THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST !
Paul chastens the Galatian lawkeepers as fools !
Paul, at the beginning of Galatians 3, reminds us that
we have begun in The Spirit (by grace), and that we
continue by and in The Spirit. NOT by the law (v. 2-5).
Paul says The Holy Spirit was obtained by grace, not law.
Neither is Spirit kept by keeping the law.
This connects nicely with John 4:23-24. God is Spirit.
The true worshippers will worship in Spirit & truth.
Remember what Jesus says in John:17
---law from Moses; grace and truth came through Him !
IOW, the law is without grace and mercy. It cannot save.
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 11:55:30 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
You know exactly who I am talking about. Or I would think you would. With this question you are dangerously close to falling into the same line of questioning that the Pharisees did with Yeshua trying to trap Him.
Hello Sister,
You may find the first part of this video interresting?
LINK
Featured Video: April 4th
LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 12:20:10 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2227
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
You're very welcome. If you'd like to study this out fully you can find some good books at FFOZ:
http://ffoz.org/resources/books/
Greetings ISJ,
Again thanks for the info, in the past I have always found the writing, but they were always in Hebrew. 
I am more of a listener, more the hands on type. I like to jump into the pool and have the Lord show me the consequence, or the good result.
Sometimes the result of my “off timing” concerning the set times of the God in my petitions which is IMO just as much of the Law….. and has caused more of the Gods wrath to come down on certain individuals than His mercy…which always followed by the conviction of such…..so as the Lord has said in the scripture in Lu 9:55
SO much for the playpen….
LOL!!
I have seen that the commanding of the Angels works in defense of the Lord, but I know I need to refine the times and the seasons of my petitions so as to cover a larger territory as Gods servant…so to speak…its almost time.
But reading away form the Bible text many times I lose interest very quickly, not saying those teachings at ffoz are not, ….but are there sites that offer the same in audio?, such as the others you gave?
You can PM me the links also, if they tend to be off topic.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 2:30:36 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1709
Status: offline
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quote:
the teachings of the Sages are ALSO the law of God] of Moses."..."Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke [the teachings of the Sages] which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
LG:
If this were indeed the case, the Lord Jesus Christ would not have pronounced His woes on the Scribes and Pharisees.
Therefore you have dismissed the conflict between the Law of Moses and the Pharisaical interpretation thereof, by your statement above.
The fact of the matter is that the "teachings of the sages" -- called "the doctrine of the elders" or "the doctrines of men" in the NT -- were at odds with the truth of God's Word. Christ -- who is the Word of God, the Wisdom of God, and the Truth of God -- had to show those men (and us) that the rabbinic teachings were false, since ultimately they went about trying to establish their own righteousness while being total hypocrites.
The proof that the rabbinic teachings are false is in the Talmud, where Jesus of Nazareth is scorned and rejected, and the doctrine of the Pharisees is elevated to the level of the Word of God.
The history of Israel as recorded in Holy Scripture is that the Jews never really believed God. They preferred their own vain imaginations, which they continue to do even to this day. Therefore Israel has been judicially blinded, even though many Jews are seeing the light and believing that Jesus is indeed the Christ, the Son of God.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 3:45:03 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 144
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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Well, it is a DISCUSSION board !!!
Some get on a soapbox and ramble endlessly, while some attack the messenger and ignore
the message itself. Others simply banter without substance or edification. I have learned after
years on site, some people question one's motives, while other's when pressed to explain their
particular beliefs are ill-equipped to do so, or simply lack desire or energy to do so. If you do
not like inquiries, that's cool. Some of us are inquisitive and hungry for wisdom.
I also enjoy a good debate. And there are several on this thread I enjoy bantering with. But I do not feel it necessary to defend my faith. Some on this thread are inqiisitive and hungry for wisdom. And some I feel are only here to tear down and belittle.
quote:
OK, you brought it up however...Not being mean or smart-alecky, just factual. I am familiar with
RT, and I don't recall anything anti-Semitic. What did you hear and from what source?
Replacement Theology essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of Replacement Theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel.
We are going to get a warning pretty soon from Admin. so I will leave it at that.
Some people choose not to see or hear what is clearly being taught as truth because it is very uncomfortable. Isaiah speaks clearly against replacement theology.
FYI it is because of this doctrine that Jews in Israel deal with added persecution. 15 yr old boys are being blown up because of this doctrine. Check out my Inquiring Minds link to see how it effects Jews.
< Message edited by Anisavta -- 4/13/2008 3:56:49 PM >
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Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 5:25:24 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Is true that the law was given to Moses, and for the first time was written in tables of stone with the finger of God; but this does not means that this was the first time that the law was given.
Welcome...not sure about the entire post, but-
This is vitally important what you reference here;
that is written by the finger of God (at Sinai).
God Himself delivered The Law directly to the people.
Out in the barren wilderness, the desert congregation
was exposed to earthquake, smoke, trumpetblast,
as the severity of The Law was manifest to them.
The people could not endure the confrontation !
Even Moses was afraid, was he not ? Hmmm...
As for Mosaic customs and rituals.......
These "other laws" that are so weighty.......are ?
What is # 11.......# 99.......#237.......# 600.......?
I am not sure what are you trying to say; but what you said is right, the moral law was given directly by God, then written by God. the other laws that God give to Moses were sacrificial laws, civil laws, and health laws. ..... I don't understand your question "what is 11.....#99 etc" I am talking about the Ten Commandments.
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