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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 8:43:27 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
I will respond after Shabbat. 
Hold that thought until Saturday after sundown.
Here's a few more....... 
Is The Law a covenant ?
What is God's eternal law ?
Is it a Gospel of grace or law ?
What does the law provide for believer ?
---encourage, edify, assurance, peace, joy ?
What "LAW" did the angels break that condemned ?
Is the Law a covenant? Yes
What is God's eternal law? The Ten Commandments
Is the Gospel of grace or law? Both
What does the law provide for believer? You already answer it
Greetings,
What does the law provide for believer?
The helper!
Joh 16:7 - Show Context
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
but if I depart, I will send Him to you. ....means He is not still hanging on the cross!
Which is the first of the 2 commands,
"'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
AND
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Notice "God" is the one doing all the work..
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/13/2008 8:53:14 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2008 10:30:54 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
the teachings of the Sages are ALSO the law of God] of Moses."..."Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke [the teachings of the Sages] which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
LG:
If this were indeed the case, the Lord Jesus Christ would not have pronounced His woes on the Scribes and Pharisees.
Therefore you have dismissed the conflict between the Law of Moses and the Pharisaical interpretation thereof, by your statement above.
The fact of the matter is that the "teachings of the sages" -- called "the doctrine of the elders" or "the doctrines of men" in the NT -- were at odds with the truth of God's Word. Christ -- who is the Word of God,
the Wisdom of God, and the Truth of God -- had to show those men (and us) that the rabbinic teachings were false, since ultimately they went about trying to establish their own righteousness while being total hypocrites.
The proof that the rabbinic teachings are false is in the Talmud, where Jesus of Nazareth is scorned and rejected, and the doctrine of the Pharisees is elevated to the level of the Word of God.
The history of Israel as recorded in Holy Scripture is that the Jews never really believed God. They preferred their own vain imaginations, which they continue to do even to this day. Therefore Israel has been judicially blinded, even though many Jews are seeing the light and believing that Jesus is indeed the Christ, the Son of God.
Greetings,
Hello Ezra
.....I went back and fixed, or quoted the reference.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
the doctrine of the Pharisees is elevated to the level of the Word of God.
Well it was actually raised above (added) to the word of God, because no flesh could be saved by the Law, because the Law is meant to reveal sin, Jesus basically accused them of not practicing what they preached, for the very same reason these types will be judged accordingly. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Joh 5:46 - Show Context
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
So the truth is they said they had love for Moses, so for the very same reason these types will be judged by the very same Law.
Joh 5:24 - Show Context
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him (God) that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
hypocrite
noun
a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives
Saying to them
Joh 8:47 - Show Context
He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
John 8:21-30
21 Then Jesus said to them again, "I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come." 22 So the Jews said, "Will He kill Himself, because He says, 'Where I go you cannot come'?" 23 And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
25 Then they said to Him, "Who are You?" And Jesus said to them, "Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning.
Because the Law is meant to reveal sin .....there is nothing flawed about the Spiritual teachings of the Law, but in reality, they had no clue about both.
24 Therefore I said to you that “you” meaning them…. will die in your sins;
quote:
The history of Israel as recorded in Holy Scripture is that the Jews never really believed God.
Some perhaps, but why is this limited to the Jews??...
Paul was Jew, setting up Gods Churches…
13 However, to those of you who are Gentiles I say this: since I myself (A JEW)….am an emissary ….sent to the Gentiles, I make known the importance of my work
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/13/2008 10:36:56 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 12:31:17 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1727
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
quote:
quote:
The history of Israel as recorded in Holy Scripture is that the Jews never really believed God.
 I didn't catch that doozie the first time around.
Please give scripture that the Nation of Israel aka Jews never really believed G~d.
You are speculating quite a bit with that statement.
And if I am not "speculating" but presenting the truth of God from Scripture, then you are still not believing God. So let's go to the Scriptures:
"And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, YE MEN OF ISRAEL, why marvel ye at this... The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus... BUT YE DENIED THE HOLY ONE AND THE JUST, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you..." (Acts 3:12-14).
"And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory apeared unto our father Abraham... the voice of the Lord came unto [Moses] saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold... Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: AS YOUR FATHERS DID, SO DO YE. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One: OF WHOM YE HAVE BEEN NOW THE BETRAYERS AND MURDERERS..." (Acts 7:1,31,32,51-52).
"Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the Law, and makest thy boast of God...Thou that makest thy boast of the Law, through breaking the Law dishonourest thou God? FOR THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES THROUGH YOU, AS IT IS WRITTEN" (Rom. 2:17,23,24).
"But Israel, which followed after the Law of righteousness, HATH NOT ATTAINED TO THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Wherefore? BECAUSE THEY SOUGHT IT NOT BY FAITH, but as it were, by the works of the Law. For they stumbled at that Stumblingstone:" (Rom. 9:31,32)
"But I say, did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation will I anger you. But Esaias [Isaiah] is very bold... BUT TO ISRAEL HE SAITH, ALL DAY LONG HAVE I STRETCHED FORTH MY HANDS UNTO A DISOBEDIENT AND GAINSAYING PEOPLE." (Rom. 10:19-21).
"What then, ISRAEL HATH NOT OBTAINED THAT WHICH [IT] SEEKETH FOR; but the election hath obtained it, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED" (Rom. 11:7).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:19:00 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4280
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Greetings,
What does the law provide for believer?
The helper!
Joh 16:7 - Show Context
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
but if I depart, I will send Him to you. ....means He is not still hanging on the cross!
Which is the first of the 2 commands,
"'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
AND
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Notice "God" is the one doing all the work..
LG
Amen, well said LG !
God declares His Holy oaths and promises,
and then He is the One who keeps them.
God does the important work, whereas we
do all the unrighteous, filthy rags activities.
_____________________________
A swine may see an acorn under a tree, but he cannot see a star.
It is a destructive addition to add anything to Christ.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:24:15 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4280
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
What is # 11.......# 99.......#237.......# 600.......?
I am not sure what are you trying to say; but what you said is right, the moral law was given directly by God, then written by God. the other laws that God give to Moses were sacrificial laws, civil laws, and health laws. ..... I don't understand your question "what is 11.....#99 etc" I am talking about the Ten Commandments.
Welcome to the thread...
Someone earlier mentioned there is 613 rules.
I randomly selected some for clarification.
I mean no disrespect towards anyone, and
God knows I am not mocking His Holy Word.
I asked a question, and it was not answered...
_____________________________
A swine may see an acorn under a tree, but he cannot see a star.
It is a destructive addition to add anything to Christ.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:40:26 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4280
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Arthur W. Pink said that Judaism was the kindergarten of the church.......
What did he mean ?
What he meant was:
1. That God is absolutely holy and righteous.
2. That all men are sinners, and that the Law establishes our sinfulness.
3. That God demands perfect obedience to the Law.
4. That no man can observe the Law perfectly.
5. That sinful man can only approach a holy God through the blood of an innocent sacrifice.
6. That no man can be justified by the works of the Law.
7. That God imputes His righteousness to those who believe Him and believe the Gospel.
Thus the Law is our "schoolmaster" or "tutor" or "kindergarden teacher" to show us that all we can do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved by grace through faith in His perfection and His perfect finsihed work at the Cross.
Even though The Law was perfect and Holy
(which we all agree with), it was incomplete.
Perfection is also completion.
The law is foundational and elementary,
and represents the church in the embryonic
stage of development. Jesus fulfilled The Law,
and paid our penatly for our inability to keep it.
Not only do we fail to keep Mosaic Law, but
no one (except Jesus of course) can love God
with all heart, mind, soul, and strength. Even
with new heart, mind, and nature we often fail.
God's requirements are more than "do nots".
It is easy to get caught up in what I perceive
as my own righteous living by what I avoid.
But, God commands us to do,.......to love.
Not as I want to love, but as He loves us.
Where do I find that kind of love ? (PFR song)
How can I obey God in my own strength ?
How do I become a profitable servant ?
How can I possibly do what is pleasing in His sight ?
Jesus said He always did what pleased God.
Jesus fulfilled law as a man. We couldn't.
Law had to be obeyed, and it was by Jesus.
We are in Him, and He is in us, God is satisfied.
_____________________________
A swine may see an acorn under a tree, but he cannot see a star.
It is a destructive addition to add anything to Christ.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:41:39 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4280
Joined: 4/13/2005
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What "law" did the angels violate that
requires their eternal condemnation ?
_____________________________
A swine may see an acorn under a tree, but he cannot see a star.
It is a destructive addition to add anything to Christ.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 11:45:06 AM
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mcleod
Posts: 774
Joined: 4/4/2006
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Anisvata,
I wrote to you about how Solomon used slave labor in which to build the temple. Which is recorded in 1 Kings 5:13-18 in there it is written verse fourteen; He (Solomom) sent them off to Lebanon in shifts of ten thousand a month, so that they spent one month in Lebanon and two months at home. Adoniriam was in charge of force labor.
What I trying to get to is that just to keeping what he has asked us to do as far as rmercy, justice, loving, is hard enough in it's self to keep. To add the rest of the laws that are of shadows you going in the wrong direction. Jesus on the cross just before he died said this that it is finish. That there is nothing we can do or any one else in order to be saved. For if you think that it wasn't then you have a I..I.. type of thought pattern and what Jesus did on the cross was in vain. For now you have made it a competetion with the Messiah for salvation.
I don't think we can say it is the churchs fault for fifteen year olds getting bomb over in Israel. It's funny that you would say that.
What I hear peole saying over there in Israel. That you believe that Messiah came and he is Yeshua. You will come under great persecution over that issue there.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 3:47:36 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 144
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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quote:
And if I am not "speculating" but presenting the truth of God from Scripture, then you are still not believing God. So let's go to the Scriptures:
then you are still not believing God. I'm not believing G~d? Like I said in a previous post I don't mind debating but I will not defend my faith.
"And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, YE MEN OF ISRAEL, why marvel ye at this... The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus... BUT YE DENIED THE HOLY ONE AND THE JUST, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you..." (Acts 3:12-14
Ok Ezra lets take some time and look at these scriptures.
However lets take them in context so we won't have a pretext.
Peter had a huge crowd he was speaking to including the religious leaders as well as the general folks of the city. They had just seen a miracle so Peter takes this opportunity to speak to an astounded crowd.
FYI Notice Peter is only talking to men here because they were in the Temple ( but Yeshua said "it is finished" why would they be in that sinful place?) So now lets look at the rest of the story and what happened during Peter's "sermon".
Act 4:1 And as they spoke to the people, the priests, and the temple commander, and the Sadducees came on them,
Act 4:2 being grieved that they taught the people, even to announce through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Act 4:3 And they laid hands on them and put them under guard until the next day, for it was already evening.
Act 4:4 But many of those who heard the Word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
Notice that the priests temple commander and Sadducees were the ones who opposed his words.
Notice how many of those who heard the Word believed - about 5000. Nation of Israel aka Jews never really believed G~d. So these 5000 were not Jews?
Acts 7:1,31,32,51-52
"And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory apeared unto our father Abraham... the voice of the Lord came unto [Moses] saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold... Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: AS YOUR FATHERS DID, SO DO YE. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One: OF WHOM YE HAVE BEEN NOW THE BETRAYERS AND MURDERERS..." (Acts 7:1,31,32,51-52).
Lets find out who these people were. Again we have to keep the context and look at the verses before to find out.
Act 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of those from Cilicia and from Asia, disputing with Stephen. Act 6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spoke.
Act 6:11 And they induced men to be saying, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.
Act 6:12 And they stirred up the people and the elders and the scribes. And coming on, they seized him and brought him to the sanhedrin. Act 6:13 And they set up false witnesses, who said, This man does not cease speaking blasphemous words against this holy place and the Law.
Act 6:14 For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered to us.
Act 6:15 And looking intently at him. all those sitting in the sanhedrin saw his face as if it were the face of an angel.
If I'm not mistaken the only ones allowed in the sanhedrin were the religious leaders not the Nation of Israel aka Jews never really believed G~d.
"Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the Law, and makest thy boast of God...Thou that makest thy boast of the Law, through breaking the Law dishonourest thou God? FOR THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES THROUGH YOU, AS IT IS WRITTEN" (Rom. 2:17,23,24).
Context!!!
Finish the thought that Paul is making please. He is speaking to both the Jew AND the Gentile here but because Paul is Jewish he is being harsher on his own people and reminding them that they were the first to receive the good news. This has nothing to do with ALL Nation of Israel aka Jews never really believed G~d.
Rom 2:8 But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath,
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who has worked out evil; of the Jew first, and also of the Greek.
Rom 2:10 But He will give glory, honor and peace to every man who works good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of faces with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law.
"But Israel, which followed after the Law of righteousness, HATH NOT ATTAINED TO THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Wherefore? BECAUSE THEY SOUGHT IT NOT BY FAITH, but as it were, by the works of the Law. For they stumbled at that Stumblingstone:" (Rom. 9:31,32)
Context!!!
A remnant shall be saved. Now that would not and could not happen unless Jews believed in the first place. So this statement, Nation of Israel aka Jews never really believed G~d.
is not true.
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel is as the sands of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
Rom 9:28 For He is bringing the matter to an end, and cutting short in righteousness, because the Lord will make a short work on the earth."
Rom 9:29 And as Isaiah said before, "Unless the Lord of hosts had left us a seed, we would have been as Sodom, and would have been like Gomorrah.
[Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I lay in Zion a Stumbling-stone and a Rock-of-offense, and everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame." /color]
"But I say, did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation will I anger you. But Esaias [Isaiah] is very bold... BUT TO ISRAEL HE SAITH, ALL DAY LONG HAVE I STRETCHED FORTH MY HANDS UNTO A DISOBEDIENT AND GAINSAYING PEOPLE." (Rom. 10:19-21).
"What then, ISRAEL HATH NOT OBTAINED THAT WHICH [IT] SEEKETH FOR; but the election hath obtained it, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED" (Rom. 11:7).
I think the following verses speak for themselves!
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference both of Jew and of Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call on Him. Rom 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things!"
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
Rom 10:17 Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes indeed, their voice went out into all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses says, "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you."
Rom 10:20 But Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those who did not seek Me, I became known to those who did not ask after Me."
Rom 10:21 But to Israel He says, "All day long I have stretched forth My hands to a disobeying and gainsaying people."
Rom 11:1 I say then, Did not God put away His people? Let it not be said! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God did not thrust out His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture said in Elijah, how he pleaded with God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 "Lord, they killed Your prophets and dug down Your altars, and I am left alone, and they seek my life."
Rom 11:4 But what does the Divine answer say to him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." Rom 11:5 Even so then, also in this present time a remnant according to the election of grace has come into being.
Rom 11:6 But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained that which it seeks, but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened
Rom 11:8 even as it is written, "God gave to them a spirit of slumber, eyes not seeing, and ears not hearing" until this day.
Rom 11:12 But if their slipping away is the riches of the world, and their default is the riches of the nations, how much more their fullness?
Rom 11:15 For if their casting away is the reconciling of the world, what is the reception except life from the dead? Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, it is not you that bears the root, but the root bears you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, The branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either!
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 6:01:55 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 144
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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quote:
What is # 11.......# 99.......#237.......# 600.......?
Someone earlier mentioned there is 613 rules.
I randomly selected some for clarification.
I mean no disrespect towards anyone, and
God knows I am not mocking His Holy Word.
What are the 11th, 99th, 237th, and 600th laws. They might be ones that you find you keep whether you know it or not.
quote:
I don't think we can say it is the churchs fault for fifteen year olds getting bomb over in Israel. It's funny that you would say that.
What I hear peole saying over there in Israel. That you believe that Messiah came and he is Yeshua. You will come under great persecution over that issue there.
Not sure what you mean by the underlined statement. Please clarify.
Unless you have lived in Israel and deal with the arguments the Israeli's use to disregard the Truth of Messiah Yeshua it is hard to understand.
Not sure if you went to my link and followed the reports of Ami (the boy I mentioned) but the investigations point to the bombing being the work of anti missionaries. They hate Christians or anyone claiming Yeshua as Messiah because of the lies that in order to be a Christian you must be converted to Christianity and give up the traditions and Torah. This is generations old and began with the organized church via Constantine and the early church fathers. Unless you stand and look a Jew in the eye and hear him/her tell you how "Christians" have destroyed their family because of past history it doesn't make sense. But it is true.
< Message edited by Anisavta -- 4/14/2008 6:08:12 PM >
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 6:41:22 PM
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Godhead
Posts: 289
Joined: 1/28/2006
Status: offline
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It's interesting to read the laws of purification in the light of what we know today about germs and bacteria. God gave them the best rules for health and hygiene for that day and age. Look at circumcision and how much safer it would have been for the woman to be with a circumcised man. How good and blessed is our God that would care for them so much to take the time to do that. From these laws of purification, we can see that God's way is the only way to lead a good and healthy life. There is much about the spirit and soul that we do not know or understand, just as the Hebrew children could not understand things such as germs or bacteria. what we can know in light of God's law that His way is the best way and will be beneficial in ways beyond our present understanding. God's values are better for us then the worlds values. Just look at His laws regarding sex. The world disobeys God and has to use protection and take precautions as they delight in abomination and sin. That speaks for itself.How can anything be good, if you have to protect yourself from it. God's will in regards to sex speaks for itself and is the only good, healthy and safe way to enjoy it. We must differentiate between what is clean and what is unclean. LEVITICUS 10:10 God knows what is best for us.
_____________________________
"Faith consists in the knowledge of God and Christ. It is always by his word that he manifests himself to those whom he designs to draw to himself." (John Calvin)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 6:57:21 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
quote:
What is # 11.......# 99.......#237.......# 600.......?
Someone earlier mentioned there is 613 rules.
I randomly selected some for clarification.
I mean no disrespect towards anyone, and
God knows I am not mocking His Holy Word.
What are the 11th, 99th, 237th, and 600th laws. They might be ones that you find you keep whether you know it or not.
quote:
I don't think we can say it is the churchs fault for fifteen year olds getting bomb over in Israel. It's funny that you would say that.
What I hear peole saying over there in Israel. That you believe that Messiah came and he is Yeshua. You will come under great persecution over that issue there.
Not sure what you mean by the underlined statement. Please clarify.
Greetings
quote:
What is # 11.......# 99.......#237.......# 600.......?
WoW, let me see...if I roll this around in my crystal ball, 
it looks like those set of numbers are tells us that the old and wise commit incest with the daughter's of one's wife's daughter....To adjudicate cases damage caused by a gratuitous depositary, In a permissive war
Torah
11 To honor the old and the wise (Lev. 19:32) (CCA17).
Forbidden Sexual Relations
99 Not to commit incest with the daughter of one's wife's daughter (Lev. 18:17) (CCN123). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
The Court and Judicial Procedure
237 To adjudicate cases of damage caused by a gratuitous depositary (Ex. 22:6-7) (affirmative).
Wars
In a permissive war (as distinguished from obligatory ones), to observe the procedure prescribed in the Torah (Deut. 20:10) (affirmative).
Sounds like Islamic communications over the media....
BUT... dont quote me, like I said, it look s like
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 9:30:40 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL LoyalGypsy
Greetings,
What does the law provide for believer?
The helper!
Joh 16:7 - Show Context
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
but if I depart, I will send Him to you. ....means He is not still hanging on the cross!
Which is the first of the 2 commands,
"'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
AND
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Notice "God" is the one doing all the work..
LG
Thanks God for the Helper! LoyalGypsy, You mention John 16:7 the promise of Jesus to send the Helper to us, I think we should also read verse 8 ” And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment”
Did you notice that it says that He (the Helper or Holy Spirit) will convict the world of SIN; now let me ask you LoyalGypsy, what the Bible says what sin is?
1 Jn. 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So, if the Holy Spirit will convict the world of transgressors or law breakers; the Helper will never tell you to break the law of God. Another verse that shows Jesus promise of the Helper is
John 14: 16 “….I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper….”
Now LoyalGypsy, I would like to read very careful with an open heart and mine the word of God; let’s start from verse 15
John 14: 15, 16. " If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever
It says “IF you love Me, keep My commandments AND I will pray the Father …to give you another Helper….” Now this is very clear and no matter how you want to mix it, there is no other way to interpret this; if you want the Holy Spirit in you; you must keep His commandments! With love of course.
The apostle John warn us that we should be more critical rather than credulous, and not to accept every spiritual activity as coming from God.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
< Message edited by HisPriest -- 4/14/2008 9:37:28 PM >
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 9:53:46 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
What is # 11.......# 99.......#237.......# 600.......?
I am not sure what are you trying to say; but what you said is right, the moral law was given directly by God, then written by God. the other laws that God give to Moses were sacrificial laws, civil laws, and health laws. ..... I don't understand your question "what is 11.....#99 etc" I am talking about the Ten Commandments.
Welcome to the thread...
Someone earlier mentioned there is 613 rules.
I randomly selected some for clarification.
I mean no disrespect towards anyone, and
God knows I am not mocking His Holy Word.
I asked a question, and it was not answered...
Of course, well, did you ever had the time to read this rules or laws (Torah)? I did, well most of them, and is very interesting, all this are words of God; but all this can be simplified in the Ten Commandments; just to give you and example for “Laws of Idolatry and Paganism” I believe there are 51 laws; all this are sum-up in the second moral law of God “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” (Ex 20:4)
But the moral Law of God (The Ten Commandments) are permanent a God Himself.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:27:57 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Arthur W. Pink said that Judaism was the kindergarten of the church.......
What did he mean ?
What he meant was:
1. That God is absolutely holy and righteous.
2. That all men are sinners, and that the Law establishes our sinfulness.
3. That God demands perfect obedience to the Law.
4. That no man can observe the Law perfectly.
5. That sinful man can only approach a holy God through the blood of an innocent sacrifice.
6. That no man can be justified by the works of the Law.
7. That God imputes His righteousness to those who believe Him and believe the Gospel.
Thus the Law is our "schoolmaster" or "tutor" or "kindergarden teacher" to show us that all we can do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved by grace through faith in His perfection and His perfect finsihed work at the Cross.
Even though The Law was perfect and Holy
(which we all agree with), it was incomplete.
Perfection is also completion.
The law is foundational and elementary,
and represents the church in the embryonic
stage of development. Jesus fulfilled The Law,
and paid our penatly for our inability to keep it.
Not only do we fail to keep Mosaic Law, but
no one (except Jesus of course) can love God
with all heart, mind, soul, and strength. Even
with new heart, mind, and nature we often fail.
God's requirements are more than "do nots".
It is easy to get caught up in what I perceive
as my own righteous living by what I avoid.
But, God commands us to do,.......to love.
Not as I want to love, but as He loves us.
Where do I find that kind of love ? (PFR song)
How can I obey God in my own strength ?
How do I become a profitable servant ?
How can I possibly do what is pleasing in His sight ?
Jesus said He always did what pleased God.
Jesus fulfilled law as a man. We couldn't.
Law had to be obeyed, and it was by Jesus.
We are in Him, and He is in us, God is satisfied.
Well, here is the problem we miss the whole point; from the beginning of the Bible we know that whatever we do without God, we will fail! We read many times how the people of Israel promise that they will keep the commandments “All that the Lord hath spoken we will do,” They promise this base in their own strength rather then have the strength from God; was without question a superficial demonstration of religious enthusiasm, a momentary reaction to a glorious and sublime truth. There was lacking the spirit of deep, true conversion, the “heart” to do what God demanded.
We don’t need to be perfect to keep the Law
We don’t became perfect by keeping the Law
We are not saved by Keeping the Law
The word of God is very clear in this, it says: “Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20)
The law can only expose the sinfulness of sin in its true colors. Justification can be obtained in only one way through Jesus Christ.
The idea that Jesus came to fulfill the law to give us the freedom of have other gods, or to dishonor our parents, or to kill, or to commit adultery, I am sorry but it sounds like a crazy idea.
He came and show the He is obedient to the will of His Father and He give us an example to fallow, He knows our weakness, He knows that we will fell down on our faces; but He also show us that He is there extending His hand for us to take, stand up, and keep walking in the right path.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:31:11 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
What "law" did the angels violate that
requires their eternal condemnation ?
The first Commandment "You shall have no other gods before Me" Ex 20:3
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/14/2008 10:58:01 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
quote:
But the moral Law of God (The Ten Commandments) are permanent a God Himself.
?? 
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
I believe that the Law of God is the transcript of His character. the same words in scripture that describe God also describe His law. God's law is His character in writing. It is no more possible to change God's law than to change God Himself.
GOOD Luke 18:19 Romans 7:12
HOLY Isaiah 5:16 Romans 7:12
JUST Deuteronomy 32:4 Romans 7:12
PERFECT Matthew 5:48 Psalms 19:7
LOVE 1 John 4:8 Romans 13:10
RIGHTEOUS Exodus 9:27 Psalms 19:9
TRUTH Deuteronomy 32:4 Psalms 119:142,151
PURE 1 John 3:3 Psalms 19:8
SPIRITUAL John 4:24 Romans 7:14
UNCHANGEABLE Malachi 3:6 Matthew 5:18
ETERNAL Genesis 21:33 Psalms 111:7,8
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 1:04:42 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1727
Status: offline
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quote:
However lets take them in context so we won't have a pretext.
This is certainly a novel way to dismiss God's truth. "It is simply out of context".
And what was the context when all Israel made a golden calf and worshipped it in the wilderness while Moses was with God on Mt. Sinai?
And what was the context when John the Baptist came announing Messiah to Israel and all Israel cried "Crucify Him!" "Crucify Him"?
So let's not use the pretext of context to dodge the truth of God's Word.
It is God who declared Israel to be a disobedient and gainsaying people in Isaiah, in Romans, and in all the Prophets. Therefore your dispute is now with the Almighty.
"But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel" (Jeremiah 7:12).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 2:58:37 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Well, here is the problem we miss the whole point; from the beginning of the Bible we know that whatever we do without God, we will fail! We read many times how the people of Israel promise that they will keep the commandments “All that the Lord hath spoken we will do,” They promise this base in their own strength rather then have the strength from God; was without question a superficial demonstration of religious enthusiasm, a momentary reaction to a glorious and sublime truth. There was lacking the spirit of deep, true conversion, the “heart” to do what God demanded.
Greetings,
We also should keep in mine that those at the base of the mountain made the commitment before Moses went up the mountain, and it was after that is when God gave them the Law, for the purpose showing them, they could not keep it,
So it was expected from the beginning of the Bible that without God, we will fail!
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 3:06:00 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
However lets take them in context so we won't have a pretext.
This is certainly a novel way to dismiss God's truth. "It is simply out of context".
And what was the context when all Israel made a golden calf and worshipped it in the wilderness while Moses was with God on Mt. Sinai?
And what was the context when John the Baptist came announing Messiah to Israel and all Israel cried "Crucify Him!" "Crucify Him"?
So let's not use the pretext of context to dodge the truth of God's Word.
It is God who declared Israel to be a disobedient and gainsaying people in Isaiah, in Romans, and in all the Prophets. Therefore your dispute is now with the Almighty.
"But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel" (Jeremiah 7:12).
Greetings,
But God never said to Jeremiah that they wern't His people for the wickedness of my people Israel
And if we look at the place where God set His name at the first, so also they will be His people at the last.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 3:11:09 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Anisvata,
I wrote to you about how Solomon used slave labor in which to build the temple. Which is recorded in 1 Kings 5:13-18 in there it is written verse fourteen; He (Solomom) sent them off to Lebanon in shifts of ten thousand a month, so that they spent one month in Lebanon and two months at home. Adoniriam was in charge of force labor.
What I trying to get to is that just to keeping what he has asked us to do as far as rmercy, justice, loving, is hard enough in it's self to keep. To add the rest of the laws that are of shadows you going in the wrong direction. Jesus on the cross just before he died said this that it is finish. That there is nothing we can do or any one else in order to be saved. For if you think that it wasn't then you have a I..I.. type of thought pattern and what Jesus did on the cross was in vain. For now you have made it a competetion with the Messiah for salvation.
I don't think we can say it is the churchs fault for fifteen year olds getting bomb over in Israel. It's funny that you would say that.
What I hear peole saying over there in Israel. That you believe that Messiah came and he is Yeshua. You will come under great persecution over that issue there.
Greetings,
quote:
What I trying to get to is that just to keeping what he has asked us to do as far as rmercy, justice, loving, is hard enough in it's self to keep.
Why is that?
quote:
To add the rest of the laws, that are of shadows, you going in the wrong direction.
Where is she adding the rest of the laws?
...# 613....To destroy the seed of Amalek (Deut. 25:19)
If you do a quick search and see what that means, in part the Spiritual side of this, says...
Never will the throne of God—the Lord of Truth, Justice, and Love—be fully established until ""the seed of Amalek"" — the ""principle"" of hatred and wrongdoing—be destroyed forever
……….If mercy, justice, loving, is hard enough in it's self to keep, then one is being troubled by the seed of Amalek.
Therefore one should pray in like manner to have that burned lifted.
quote:
What "law" did the angels violate that requires their eternal condemnation ?
They were not given that option!
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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