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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 3:39:16 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5783
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness faithfulness, and self control. Against such things are no law.
I have a better rendition of this:
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
They go against no law.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 4:25:22 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2930
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
How then do Christians uphold the Law? By obeying the Law of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. That it is not consistently obeyed is a separate issue.
The Ten Commandments are encapsulated in the two Greatest Commmandments, and these two are summed up in "the New Commandment" of Christ -- we are to love God and others as Christ loves them.
This is the Law of Christ, which takes the Ten Commandments to their highest level. 10 = 2 = 1 means we uphold the Law.
All the rest is types and "shadows".
Duet 6
". . . you shall love Adonai Elohenu with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your might . . ."
Le 19:18
"'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord"
So, the "Law of Christ" is Ha Torah, not so new a commandment.. If I where to use your imagery, then converse is also true 1=2=10. However, I would add 1=2=10=613+. If we wish to know what it means to love ones neighbor, we can look at Ha Torah(The Word) and looking through a darkened glass is better than not looking at all.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 8:24:41 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Well, here is the problem we miss the whole point; from the beginning of the Bible we know that whatever we do without God, we will fail! We read many times how the people of Israel promise that they will keep the commandments “All that the Lord hath spoken we will do,” They promise this base in their own strength rather then have the strength from God; was without question a superficial demonstration of religious enthusiasm, a momentary reaction to a glorious and sublime truth. There was lacking the spirit of deep, true conversion, the “heart” to do what God demanded.
Greetings,
We also should keep in mine that those at the base of the mountain made the commitment before Moses went up the mountain, and it was after that is when God gave them the Law, for the purpose showing them, they could not keep it,
So it was expected from the beginning of the Bible that without God, we will fail!
LG
OK, let me see if I understand correctly; the Law of God says "do not have other gods before Me" if we cannot keep this commandment, is OK now to have other gods? or the commandment that says "honor your father and your mother" if you cannot keep this, is OK to do the opposite?
how about the one that says "You shall not commit adultery" if you cannot keep this law that makes it OK to commit adultery? Or, is it that this verses in the Bible is teaching us that without God we will fail, just as they did, they make the promise base in their own streng; in a human strengh, they entered into the covenant obviously with little knowledge of themselves.
But the law of God is good:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 8:41:03 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Eye for an eye...
Was that a law ?
But didn't Jesus change that law ?
Very good questions, well let see what the Bible or the word of God says about this; what is the law and for what reason He give them to us.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Now this verse is so clear, it says that no one will be justified by the deeds of the law; in other words, no one is saved by works! and yet it says that the law is for our knowledge of sin! It makes a lot of sense, don't you think so? How we can be justified if we cannot recognize sin? But this goes even deeper; to be justified or pardon, you need to have real repentance, your confession has to genuine, from the heart; not just words out of your mouth; and that is why God says that He will put His laws in the heart.
With Him everything is possible.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 9:09:58 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2234
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
But this fundamental truth about Israel is that Paul was speaking of the branches, not the root, which the Christians branches can also be broken off, and Israel grafted back into their own tree.
LG:
The root is not the nation of Israel, but Christ Himself, "the Lion of the tribe of Judah, THE ROOT OF DAVID" (Rev. 5:5) as well as "The BRANCH" (Zech.7:12).
Jesus said, "I am the Vine, ye are the branches. Without me ye can do nothing". So only the believing remnant of Israel can be grafted back. Unbelieving Jews have no part in this Vine and Olive Tree. They have been "broken off" and "cast off".
Greetings,
quote:
The root is not the nation of Israel, but Christ Himself,
How is it? The root is Christ Himself?
Christ existed before the world began and is eternal, He has no beginning and He has no end ....a root comes from a seed, speaking in terms of the root, is the human seed ...of a women.
The vine..... is like when a mother is pregnant with a child, that cord is the root, the vine feeds the child, therefore, Jesus said, ….Without me ye can do nothing =the vine
………"the Lion of the tribe of Judah, THE ROOT OF DAVID" (Rev. 5:5) as well as "The BRANCH" (Zech.7:12).
Are references to the flesh, such as, the root and offspring of Jesse, meaning David ….these are all references of the flesh,
Revelation 5 Read This Chapter
5:5
Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
1Jo 2:16
For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world
Joh 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
Heb 2:14
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil
………"the Lion of the tribe of Judah, THE ROOT OF DAVID" (Rev. 5:5) as well as "The BRANCH" (Zech.7:12).
Are references to the flesh, such as, the root and offspring of Jesse, meaning David ….these are all references of the flesh,
Joh 18:36 - Show Context
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
A good picture of the vine, is seen here .....
....but now My kingdom is not from here....If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight,
....so that I should not be delivered to the Jews,
Joh 10:17 - Show Context
Therefore My Father loves Me, because "I lay down My life" that "I may" take it again.
.......The servants had nothing to do with that...but to be placed in the positions at a precise time,
Some seem to forget, the other players who had part and did not know of the prophecy, although Jesus did ...the trick is someone had to guide them into fulfilling their end, therefore, My kingdom is not of this world
So To say Jesus is the root, then one may be suggesting that we all can lay down our lives, and take it again
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/17/2008 9:16:17 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 9:29:54 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2234
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
quote:
Greetings,
We also should keep in mine that those at the base of the mountain made the commitment before Moses went up the mountain, and it was after that is when God gave them the Law, for the purpose showing them, they could not keep it,
So it was expected from the beginning of the Bible that without God, we will fail!
LG
OK, let me see if I understand correctly; the Law of God says "do not have other gods before Me" if we cannot keep this commandment, is OK now to have other gods?
Greetings,
quote:
OK, let "me see" if I understand correctly;
Cant help ya with that one, your asking the wrong person.... 
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/17/2008 9:43:50 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 11:34:16 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1709
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quote:
OK, let me see if I understand correctly;
Unfortunately, you do not understand correctly. Let me explain:
quote:
the Law of God says "do not have other gods before Me" if we cannot keep this commandment, is OK now to have other gods?
The Law of Christ says "Love God as Christ loves Him". Perfectly. How does Christ love the Father? Above all else, and to the exclusion of all else. Therefore all other "gods" are automatically excluded.
quote:
or the commandment that says "honor your father and your mother" if you cannot keep this, is OK to do the opposite?
The Law of Christ says exactly the same thing. See Eph. 6:1-3. Doing the opposite would be a sin.
quote:
how about the one that says "You shall not commit adultery" if you cannot keep this law that makes it OK to commit adultery?
Quite the opposite. The Law of Christ says that merely to look on a woman to lust after her is to have already committed adultery in your heart (Mt. 5:27,28). That's even tougher than the Ten Commandments.
quote:
Or, is it that this verses in the Bible is teaching us that without God we will fail, just as they did, they make the promise base in their own streng; in a human strengh, they entered into the covenant obviously with little knowledge of themselves.
Exactly. Without the New Birth and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, not one of us can obey God's commandments.
quote:
But the law of God is good:
Indeed. That is why the Law of Christ (who is God) is even more excellent than the Law of Moses.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 12:29:20 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1709
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
This is where you are wrong Ezra. I am a Jew by blood just as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are Jews by blood. Just as King David is a Jew by blood.
Let's clarify this, and get a little more technical. There is no question about king David, since he was of the tribe of Judah, and Jews are Yehudim (from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, the other tribes having disappeared temporarily).
However, Abram (later Abraham) was a "Chaldean" from Ur of the Chaldees (Gen. 11:27-30), Isaac was a tent-dweller in Gerar among the Canaanites (Gen. 26:17), and Jacob is called a "Syrian" in Deut. 26:6 and Hosea 12:12,13. Therefore there were no "Jews" before Judah! They were Hebrews, since Abraham was an Eberite or descendent of Eber, of the line of Shem, Noah and Seth. Thus Abraham was also a "Semite" (from Shem).
quote:
When these Patriarchs came into the Presence of YHVH did they recieve the announcement, "You are no longer a Jew. You are now a Christian"?
Something like that. Abraham was called "the Friend of God", Isaac was called "Laughter", and Jacob was called "a prince with God and men" (hence "Israel"). David is called "a man after God's heart". Do you notice that it was not their physical lineage but their spiritual relationship to God? Therefore you are not "a Jew" but " a child of God".
quote:
What is your definition of "Church"?
God's definition of the Church is "the Body of Christ" -- all the redeemed ones who are joined to each other in the Body as "members" and to their Head, who is Christ. See Eph. 5:21-33 ("for we are members of His Body"), and 1 Cor. 12:12-14 ("whether we be Jews or Gentiles").
quote:
According to the verse you use about no Jew or Gentile -
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference both of Jew and of Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call on Him.
Rom 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
The above passage puts no difference between Jew or Gentile in regards to salvation.
But it is in Gal. 3:26-29 that we discover that:
1. "ye are all the children of God" (v.26)
2. "there is neither Jew nor Greek" (v.28)
3. "ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (v. 28)
4. "If ye be Christ's, ye are Abraham's seed" (v.29)
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 1:57:27 AM
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Anisavta
Posts: 144
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
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quote:
God's definition of the Church is "the Body of Christ" -- all the redeemed ones who are joined to each other in the Body as "members" and to their Head, who is Christ. See Eph. 5:21-33 ("for we are members of His Body"), and 1 Cor. 12:12-14 ("whether we be Jews or Gentiles").
church
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
synagogue
G4864
συναγωγή
sunagōgē
soon-ag-o-gay'
From (the reduplicated form of) G4863; an assemblage of persons; specifically a Jewish “synagogue” (the meeting or the place); by analogy a Christian church: - assembly, congregation, synagogue.
Seem to be the same thing.
Still want to know what you do with: Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus
G5546
Χριστιανός
Christianos
khris-tee-an-os'
From G5547; a Christian, that is, follower of Christ: - Christian.
quote:
When these Patriarchs came into the Presence of YHVH did they recieve the announcement, "You are no longer a Jew. You are now a Christian"?
Something like that. Abraham was called "the Friend of God", Isaac was called "Laughter", and Jacob was called "a prince with God and men" (hence "Israel"). David is called "a man after God's heart". Do you notice that it was not their physical lineage but their spiritual relationship to God? Therefore you are not "a Jew" but " a child of God".
Interesting. So Greek is the official language of Heaven?
So Jews can't be children of G~d and yet the Nation of Israel was called b'nai Israel - Children of Israel who were "Hebrews" and became Yehudi- Jews.
No thank you I think I'll stick to being a Jewish believer in Yeshua HaMashiach and share the Good News of the Messiah to my People the Jews.
I mentioned this in a post - can't remember if it was in this thread or another. But Paul was dogged by a group of Jewish believers who felt that Gentiles had to become Jews to be saved. They were called Judaisers. The coin got flipped.
Now we have Gentile believers deciding that Jews have to become Gentiles to be saved. They are called Gentilisers.
Paul had some harsh words for them. Wonder what he would say about the Gentilisers.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 11:25:51 AM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
OK, let me see if I understand correctly;
Unfortunately, you do not understand correctly. Let me explain:
quote:
the Law of God says "do not have other gods before Me" if we cannot keep this commandment, is OK now to have other gods?
The Law of Christ says "Love God as Christ loves Him". Perfectly. How does Christ love the Father? Above all else, and to the exclusion of all else. Therefore all other "gods" are automatically excluded.
quote:
or the commandment that says "honor your father and your mother" if you cannot keep this, is OK to do the opposite?
The Law of Christ says exactly the same thing. See Eph. 6:1-3. Doing the opposite would be a sin.
quote:
how about the one that says "You shall not commit adultery" if you cannot keep this law that makes it OK to commit adultery?
Quite the opposite. The Law of Christ says that merely to look on a woman to lust after her is to have already committed adultery in your heart (Mt. 5:27,28). That's even tougher than the Ten Commandments.
quote:
Or, is it that this verses in the Bible is teaching us that without God we will fail, just as they did, they make the promise base in their own streng; in a human strengh, they entered into the covenant obviously with little knowledge of themselves.
Exactly. Without the New Birth and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, not one of us can obey God's commandments.
quote:
But the law of God is good:
Indeed. That is why the Law of Christ (who is God) is even more excellent than the Law of Moses.
Good, so we are in the same page, the Ten Commandments still banding
by the way the Ten Commandments are not the law of Moses, but the law of God
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 11:43:54 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 2719
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Good, so we are in the same page, the Ten Commandments still banding
by the way the Ten Commandments are not the law of Moses, but the law of God
Which of the laws of Moses did NOT come from God?????? You make it sound as if Moses instituted laws of his own and was only the messenger of the ten on the stone tablets.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 12:19:11 PM
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mcleod
Posts: 750
Joined: 4/4/2006
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Hi! Anisvata, how are you doing today?
quote:
quote:
Still want to know what you do with: Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus
I know you ask some else yet couldn't refuse to give my 1cent thought.
If I understand things and the teaching of the Prophets and the Messiah. In fact lets study the story where a great teacher of the law came to Yeshua one day and ask him this question. Luke 10:25 -37 "What must I do to have eternal life?" Yeshua replied, which I get a kick out of with a question to him. "What is written in the torah"?
As you well no the rest of the story it's about the good Samaritan. Which when we come to the last part of the story we read verse 36; "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?" The man answered "the one who had mercy on him." Notice that even he could not say the word Samaritan. For as you know there was great hatered towards them. What hatered does a person have like I wrote and got a no-no in my PM thing. Which I apolgised to anyone whom was offended by it.
What I am trying to get to is that it's not you or I. It's a big family which should not have hatered towards each other. This is what the Prophets spoke to as far as having a relationship to God the creator of all. What Paul was fervent about. To love one another.
When we treat another person with great contemp. Then we have done it unto God.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 12:48:27 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 842
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Which of the laws of Moses did NOT come from God?????? You make it sound as if Moses instituted laws of his own and was only the messenger of the ten on the stone tablets.
Actually Moses did write his own 'Rabbinical' laws. Moses law of divorce was against God's original intention for marriage, yet God allowed him to legislate something that we now know clearly nullified the universal law of God.
This fact kind of throws a monkey wrench into the argument for dividing up the Old Covenant law into the laws of Moses and all the add-on Rabbinical laws. It's clear in the NT that Paul and others viewed the law as a complete entity. And this is easy to understand when you see that what changed in the New Covenant is the way we relate to God. We don't relate to God through a system of hard and fast rules and regulations anymore. Real or man-made, doesn't matter, that's not the point. The point is we have been released from relating to and serving God through a written code. Instead we now relate to God through spiritual principles (aka the law of Christ).
And since both the written law and the Spirit seek to do the same thing (cause you to love your neighbor) it should be no surprise they sometimes find their fulfillment in similar ways. The point people can't grasp is that often walking in the Spirit gives the appearance of violating the written law, yet does in fact fulfill the spirit and intention of the written law. That's what makes the Romans 7 illustration of marriage so appropriate. Life in the Spirit gives the outward impression that you are being unfaithful to the law (that you were once bound to), but because there has been a death, we are in fact legitimately released from serving God through the outward and external laws of worship of the Old Covenant and have been released to bind ourselves to the principles of the Spirit instead. Crucifiction of the flesh nature releases us from the binding authority and supervision of the law. Therefore, no law is violated.
The Spirit and intention of the law is preserved being fulfilled in the new and better way of the Spirit. Fulfilling the law spiritually does not mean keeping the letter of the law in the power of the Spirit. It means fulfilling the true intention and purpose of the law in your innermost being, not just in an external and potentially insincere and deceitful way. This invariably means life in the Spirit may look different on the outside than life under the external restraints of the written law.
This isn't so much about a passing of the law as it is about a passing of the old way of fulfilling the law and serving God. The new way was God's intention all along.
The Romans 14:17, 18 passage (I think that's where it is) that the kingdom of God not being a matter of 'eating and drinking' anymore (meaning the old requirements for external worship) gives us the faith and clearness of conscience to move away from literal forms of Old covenant worship. The true worship and service that God approves of is now a matter of 'righteousness (circumcision), peace (rest), and joy (festival celebration) in the Holy Spirit' (from the same passage). Righteousness, peace, and joy are the true fulfillment of the Old covenant commands for external worship. This truth releases us from relating to God through the old ways of the Old Covenant (what you eat, etc...) and brings us into the sincere and true way of the Spirit that truly pleases God, and man.
Thank God for the New Covenant.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 3:18:43 PM
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Odeliya
Posts: 3106
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
I seriously doubt anyone on this thread is demanding that anyone (of Jewish heritage or not) scarf down a ham hock to prove their Christianity
In my Bible it says what one eats and drinks is a matter of conscience and we are not to judge others about such things.
what, what? is there an unclaimed smoked hock sitting around somewhere creating theological tension? oh, me, me to the rescue ! Pass it , plz,I will take care of it and thus naturally, eliminate the accompanying it theol. problem. I can use it, for overslept-had no time for breakfast even.
quote:
monkey brains
we got those, too? As usual i am late to the party...YOu guys are cooking here! Sounds sort of gross to me but in a fraternity house I know it would last about 2.5 min. They’ll put some ketchup on it , claim it tastes like chicken and demand the entire pan of leftovers immideately.
Good points about kashrut in general!
quote:
I must give up eating kosher
By no means! A pastor of the church I go here in States said he should not only obey it, but make it even stricter: "I must give up eating." Actually that's what the doctor who saw his weight said. Gentile doctor btw, but what a respect for Law !
I agree with PS 103, RestoredHeart and the camp that said:
As long as what we do gets us closer to God, Love each other and doesn’t make other brothers stumble, we should do it . If done with Love in mind, we cant go wrong with the Law of Moses … “ …. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing" Paul said that. That's what I call a nice, decent Jewish boy!! I like him (but he is already with the Lord, so I cant date him, sorry, mom.)
_____________________________
Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you were you should go.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 3:29:00 PM
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Odeliya
Posts: 3106
Joined: 8/10/2005
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Anichka,
For real, I would not worry of Christians tell you that you cant’t keep the Law. They are lucky they are not telling that to me! With my mouth , esp.on a bad day – they would be running for cover, antiacid, pain reliever and weed
If tourists at Ben Gurion give you dirty looks about your clothing - who cares? You dress for God and your husband. 80% of all participants of "christian pilgrims" tours to Israel are like "guinea pig", have nothing to do with " christian" nor "pilgrim", i wouldnt worry what they think.
If some thinks that obedience to Law makes you a worse Christian they aren’t worthy of your time and attention. If you think of me or someone who not obeying the Law it makes us worse Christians, you aren’t worthy of mine.
It’s all about love. Some laws are very beneficial, but some would only make Jews ( maybe, in some cases, only If they like that obedience and itt not legalistic to them ) feel closer to God, but not Gentiles. Gentiles didn’t wait for messiah, so the shadows are not their thing.
_____________________________
Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you were you should go.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 6:43:59 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/11/2008
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There are some people that call the Ten Commandments "the law of Moses" in a way as it was not important perhaps?
But the true is that the Ten Commandments are call “the Law of God”. I want to be clear in this, when Moses went up to the mountain Sinai he receive from God The Ten Commandments and many other laws; nothing came from him, and he was suppose to write them and the people was suppose to do them exactly as God had command. But the ten commandments, the Moral Law was spoken by God to all the Hebrews at Mount Sinai, and then written with His own finger twice on stone. Latter on they put this Moral Laws (the ten commandments) inside the ark (Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.”) the other laws (law of Moses) written in a book, outside of the ark. (Deuteronomy 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark…)
So, the word of God makes the distinction between the two; lets read this other verse:
Deuteronomy 4:13,14. "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone 14 "And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.
Notice that the statutes and judgments are not on the Ten Commandments, but in the book of Moses; notice also that how Moses clearly separated the ten commandments, which "he commanded you," from the statutes which "he commanded me" to give the people.
Of course there are many other verses where we can see the distinction.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 8:20:26 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5783
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
Gentiles didn’t wait for messiah, so the shadows are not their thing.
Woohoo!!!!!
That is quite a profound statement.
I caught it the first time I read it, too. lol.
But, there is a surge of those who are very much interested in these
things, because the day is closing, the time of the Gentiles is drawing
to a close. And there are those who recognize that God said ten would
grab the tzit-tzit of one Jew and say, "TEACH US!!!!!!!!!!!"
So, I pray that the Jews will know what they are supposed to teach us.
If not, I can give them a helping hand. LOL.
As the Hebrew and Ger stood together throughout time, we will continue to do so.
Baruch HaShem!!!!
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2008 11:25:59 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1709
Status: offline
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quote:
Still want to know what you do with: Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus
What this means is that within the Church, the Body of Christ, there can be absolutely no distinctions. All are children of God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. All are "the seed" of Abraham.
What it further means is that for Jews within the Church to introduce and promote their Jewish distinctiveness is to violate the Law of Christ. Think about that!
Christ says absolutely no distinctions since they violate the Law of Love.
Messianics say "Absolutely not. We will do what Moses commanded. We will prove that we can do what our forefathers failed to do".
Is that Jewish disobedience all over again, or is it not?
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/19/2008 10:18:06 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
Anichka,
For real, I would not worry of Christians tell you that you cant’t keep the Law. They are lucky they are not telling that to me! With my mouth , esp.on a bad day – they would be running for cover, antiacid, pain reliever and weed
If tourists at Ben Gurion give you dirty looks about your clothing - who cares? You dress for God and your husband. 80% of all participants of "christian pilgrims" tours to Israel are like "guinea pig", have nothing to do with " christian" nor "pilgrim", i wouldnt worry what they think.
If some thinks that obedience to Law makes you a worse Christian they aren’t worthy of your time and attention. If you think of me or someone who not obeying the Law it makes us worse Christians, you aren’t worthy of mine.
It’s all about love. Some laws are very beneficial, but some would only make Jews ( maybe, in some cases, only If they like that obedience and itt not legalistic to them ) feel closer to God, but not Gentiles. Gentiles didn’t wait for messiah, so the shadows are not their thing.
OMG !!!.......how do you come up with this stuff ? 
The coolest thing about your post(s) is that they echo Jesus' words.
No IMHO, no "I" think, feel, or whatever. All right from the playbook.
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/19/2008 10:28:43 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4322
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
Still want to know what you do with: Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus
What this means is that within the Church, the Body of Christ, there can be absolutely no distinctions. All are children of God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. All are "the seed" of Abraham.
As spiritual children, born by the will of God, our identity
is in Christ Jesus, since we are sealed in the same Blood.
We are God's family, as He made us, according to His choosing.
There is no individualism in Christ, no claim to anything.
The only thing that matters is our connection to The Head.
We are in Christ---by Christ and through Christ.
We all in unity cling to the cross of Christ...and nothing else.
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/19/2008 11:27:27 AM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 842
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
...And there are those who recognize that God said ten would
grab the tzit-tzit of one Jew and say, "TEACH US!!!!!!!!!!!"
No chance the passage you are referring to is another of many prophecies in the OT about God reconciling the world unto Himself in the kingdom of God, and the 'one Jew' in the passage is none other than Jesus Himself, with the 'ten men from all languages and nations' being the Gentiles and the Jewish exiles scattered to the nations (spiritually and literally)?
"Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, 'Let us go at once to entreat the LORD and seek the LORD Almighty. I myself am going.' And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the LORD Almighty and to entreat him."
This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.' " (Zech. 8:21-23)
...a prophecy which adds some siginificance to these passages (remember, the gospels are all about convincing the world that Jesus is truly the fulfillment of prophecy):
"...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. (Acts 10:38)
"A large crowd followed and pressed around him. And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, because she thought, "If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed." Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.
At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?" (Mark 5:24-30)
"And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent out into all that country round about, and brought unto him all that were diseased;
And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole." (Matt. 14:35-36)
< Message edited by SpongeBlog -- 4/19/2008 11:35:22 AM >
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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