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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 10:56:18 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1183
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
With all of the diatribes and people talking over one another, I lost my place. If I may start again fresh, can we agree that Ha Torah(The Law) was never intended as a means of salvation? If we can agree on this I will move on to discuss further.
Good move. Before the debate deteriorated to a fight :))I agree and also yes, it is a good guide for decent living- only if Law is obeyed not only in Letter, but in Spirit. Without true love for God and fellow men even the best Torah observance is a bandaid to a dead body.
The problem comes in when people start making things that are good and beneficial for human life matters of spiritual significance...which they are no longer. For instance, what I eat, in and of itself, has no spiritual significance whatsoever in regard to my relationship to God. As Paul says, 'food for the stomach, and the stomach for food, but both will be destroyed (they have no lasting significance)'.
We are to devote ourselves to eternal matters, not the 'elemental' things of physical human life and the rules that once governed them. Those rules had their place and purpose, but that season has passed and we have moved into the reality they represented. What you consume through your cable TV programming has spiritual significance. What you ate for supper does not. This is the truth that some people simply can't see yet.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 11:29:19 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1183
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
Why can't the sun be included in the reckoning of God's timetable?
I can't answer that, I'm not God.
God reckons with the moon. That's just the way He designed it.
My point is God does use the sun to reckon time. It's just wrong to automatically think 'Zues' or 'Constatine' at the slightest notion that the sun could be used by God to symbolize His eternal time table.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
The part He does use the Sun is to mark the days.
From sundown to sundown. And the seventh is the Sabbath.
That hasn't changed as long as there's been a Sun. Which is at least 6,000 years.
The months and years are determined by the "moon."
God's reckoning of Time.
quote:
Can you see past your own polluted conscience to see that others can be free of pagan influences?
You declare you know this is all "biblical."
I don't understand why you insist on some of us, or is it me in particular?
of having a "polluted conscience." Is it because you "spiritualize" away the
things you don't like to hear? Just curious.
For you or anyone to automatically think of false gods at the mention of the sun is to totally ignore how God Himself uses the sun to illustrate the passing of one covenant and the coming of the next. I'm not speculating. I shared the scriptures that plainly liken the day of Christ to the rising of the sun, not the moon.
We all know the early Church began the tradition of meeting on the first day of the week instead of the last day of the week to commemorate the resurrection of Christ. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Sun-day is called Sunday in keeping with the analogy of Christ's resurrection (on the first day of the week) being like the rising of the sun. I can't help but to believe that ignoring the Biblical link between Christ and the sun, and focusing instead on pagan gods associated with the sun, is the product of a polluted conscience. It also seems it's hard for you to accept that not all of us have this problem with instantly thinking of 'Zues' at the mention of the sun in a religous context. But believe it, it's true.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
included explicit exhortations to keep literal times and dates and festivals?
Paul answered this. "You have no need I write to you about these times."
It's instructed all through their culture. They were writing to Israel.
No, the passage plainly says Paul had previously taught them about the details of the second coming...details he was unwillingly to go back into in his letter to them. How can an honest person twist that into meaning that he had taught them to keep the literal observances of the law?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
(I agree, it's a 'mindset' that you have to adopt, but that doesn't make it right).
As Jeremiah could see into the future, we would come and declare "we have inherited lies." Jer. 16:19
I don't understand the furor "against" God's Feasts, and the same furor "protecting" the feasts of
Ishtar and X-mass which the OT declares by God to be an abomination to Him.
All I can say is: ?????????????????????????????????????? lol.
You don't get it. The furor is over people telling the Church God wants us to keep the literal festivals, and in effect bring us back under the authority and supervision of the written law (with all it's promises of blessings and punishments for not doing so) and away from the more meaningful and beneficial understanding of the festival observances and ceremonies. And, secondly, for telling the Church we're serving a false god by having the mere presence of an easter egg or a christmas tree in our house. That is only true for the person who really thinks that constitutes worshipping a false god, not for us who know that it's akin to eating food that originally was offered up in sacrifice to a pagan god, which Paul says cannot be defiled in and of itself by the intent of the original purpose that a pagan set it aside for. But it is true that it is defiled for the person who can't grasp this truth.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2008 10:03:44 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2803
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Well,
This has come full circle.
I do get it. I taught it for decades.
I just recognize it for what it is.
The majority are in denial. Until they "desire" to know,
they will be content with what they have been given.
I also have given scriptures, so it's a standoff.
Not because we are both right or both wrong, but we look at it through
different glasses and from different angles.
So, I leave it up to LBolt to continue with his program.
Everyone have a good day. Shalom.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 8:55:32 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Here's a fun quiz to test our knowledge:
http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/quiz.html
LOL!
fossilizedcustoms....the pic speaks for itself!!!
But they do throw a good funeral!!! LOL
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 9:02:58 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
If you study the major changing events that happened to Israel and what
even happens today, you will find that they are on the Feast Days. Even
before the Israelies were instructed in them.
As I understand history, Israel's enemies have purposely chosen the Jew's historical festival times to attack, hoping to hit them when they are least prepared and vigilant to any impending invasion. But I'm certain God is using that to speak to the world about the validity of the truth of God's plans still unfullfilled. But it's a misguided conclusion to think we (those who know the truth) must be keeping those times and dates literally to be in God's favor. God has to continue to speak to unregenerate Jews through the time tables of the OT. It's all they know. It's the best way to validate prophecy to them.
Greetings
quote:
As I understand history, Israel's enemies have purposely chosen the Jew's historical festival times to attack,
If that were true, then Israel's enemies would be beleivers ....and One would think that Israel's enemies would have at least learned the lesson and not support the prophetic word.
The things is, Israel's enemies actually have no clue.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 9:18:28 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2803
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Again, if we knew our OT,
the enemies never chose to attack on feast days.
God always stirred them in their spirits to attack.
Many came on feast days. The reason for the captivities
was they violated the appointed times and seasons. Just as we do today.
It's all there in the New and Old if we accept it and not deny it.
Israel kept denying God would do such a thing. Just as we do today.
Nothing new under the sun (from man's point of view).
The patterns are set. God's patterns, or haShatan's patterns.
False prophets lead us away from Torah (God's instructions),
True prophets stand in the breach and proclaim, "Come back to Torah!" (God's instructions).
Heb. 1 ; God spoke in time past by the "prophets", but now speaks by His Prophet, "Yahushua."
Pattern is the same, message is the same.
COME BACK!!!!! Repent! (Turn around, do a 180, come back to obedience)
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 9:57:52 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11647
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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In reading some of these sites thast are linked (and some that the sites link to) I am getting confused about something. So I would like all of those who believe in keeping the Law to answer the following with either true or false, please:
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
True or false? (All three statements)
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 10:02:05 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
You don't get it. The furor is over people telling the Church God wants us to keep the literal festivals, and in effect bring us back under the authority and supervision of the written law (with all it's promises of blessings and punishments for not doing so) and away from the more meaningful and beneficial understanding of the festival observances and ceremonies.
And, secondly, for telling the Church we're serving a false god by having the mere presence of an Easter egg or a Christmas tree in our house. That is only true for the person who really thinks that constitutes worshipping a false god, not for us who know that it's akin to eating food that originally was offered up in sacrifice to a pagan god, which Paul says cannot be defiled in and of itself by the intent of the original purpose that a pagan set it aside for. But it is true that it is defiled for the person who can't grasp this truth.
Greetings,
That has no reference whatsoever to food, food is not a God, food is a provision and we are not to created a likeness to anything created, provisional or otherwise
…for example….the mimic of the RCC, creates an image of the MK in its established ecclesia, by the worship of pagan ritual, as if that is how it is going to be in Heaven….. 
quote:
The furor is over people telling the Church God wants us to keep the literal festivals, and in effect bring us back under the authority and supervision of the written law
Worshipping other gods in that manner as exampled above not only constitutes spiritual adultery according to the first commandment, but changes times and seasons according to the set times which God calls “His own”…which is already a part of historical, and modern knowledge. 
In other words that establishment is no less a legalism (in a world of its own) than that of the legal part of the Torah, but disguised in the name of Christ…..which has nothing to do with blessing Israel who believe and who keeps the set times which God calls “His own”…
quote:
which Paul says cannot be defiled in and of itself by the intent of the original purpose that a pagan set it aside for.
……..There is a difference. Not to that which Jesus has called clean?
Yet the scriptures say that whatever a pagan has set aside is still defiled…
Leviticus 18:19-30
Re 3:16
And the purging of the worship of pagan gods has nothing to do with food.
Even in the ecclesia, we will know them by their fruits.
But…Which Church are you speaking of??
Loyal Gypsy
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/27/2008 10:51:25 AM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 10:02:28 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 1985
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Well,
This has come full circle.
I do get it. I taught it for decades.
I just recognize it for what it is.
The majority are in denial. Until they "desire" to know,
they will be content with what they have been given.
What are you saying here ? What is "IT" ?
Who is the majority...there are many majorities ?
Are you stating you were once a false teacher ?
Why are you mocking people's hunger for truth ?
quote:
I also have given scriptures, so it's a standoff.
You percive it to be a standoff is more accurate...
quote:
Not because we are both right or both wrong, but we look at it through
different glasses and from different angles.
What are we looking at differently ?
What type of vision are you using ?
Why are we using different glasses ?
quote:
Everyone have a good day. Shalom.
Deuces up !!! 
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 10:11:00 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 1985
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
False prophets lead us away from Torah (God's instructions),
True prophets stand in the breach and proclaim, "Come back to Torah!" (God's instructions).
Give an illustration of a false prophet. An anti-Christ ?
THE Prophet said, "Come to ME !"
Did I miss something Jesus said ?
quote:
Heb. 1 ; God spoke in time past by the "prophets", but now speaks by His Prophet, "Yahushua."
Pattern is the same, message is the same.
COME BACK!!!!! Repent! (Turn around, do a 180, come back to obedience)
WHOA...that ain't the message fo' sure !!!!!!! 
Believe on The One sent.
Confess with mouth, believe in heart Jesus is Lord
Are you re-writing the Gospel now, simply altering it,
or is it not weighty enough or relevant to you ? 
_____________________________
"WHOSOEVER"are the elect-
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 11:07:36 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1696
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
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 Are you trying to desert, Turai Lapidoth ?Get back to the base immediately, and expect some trouble.
We love you brother,believe it or not, just as much as if you didn’t have the attitude.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
I also have given scriptures,
Big deal! Listen to this! He gave Scriptures!
Any doctrine, my dear, can be proven by just throwing some Scripture verses together, ripped out of context. You gotta do better then that to prove your point. That is what we are trying to do here.
* Blacked out. Don’t know the English word for turai even if my life depended on it.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 12:03:37 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
In reading some of these sites thast are linked (and some that the sites link to) I am getting confused about something. So I would like all of those who believe in keeping the Law to answer the following with either true or false, please:
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
True or false? (All three statements)
Greetings,
Which Law, the 10 commandments, or the legal part the Torah or that which is written on the heart of Jesus Christ??
quote:
. ) I am getting confused about something.
Join the crowd Sis…. 
The Father is God.
Deuteronomy 6:4-16
4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: ....."You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
True
The Son is God.
Mt 11:27 - Show Context
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him = The Holy Spirit
…..but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "
True
The Holy Spirit is God.
Joh 6:45 - Show Context
It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 15:26 - Show Context
"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me
True
True ....(All three statements)
Everything coming from and going to Heaven passes through the Son.
Here is what I can gather
Those who say the Law is irrelevant hate the light, and do not come to the light, lest "his deeds" should be exposed. …..
Now in Christian circles this is a rebuke of the conviction of the HS ....thinking that because they are in Christ they can bear false witness, create images in the worship other gods, etc etc.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this reason……. many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord ...that we may not be condemned with the world.
It looks like the Law either chastens or condemns, but to have either… the Law must exist.
Because "deeds are made manifest" by the light, in both circles…
for “whatever makes manifest” our deeds ….is light.
If there was no Law, then how can that any of that be accomplished and why are so many sick???
The Law is not abolished but it is written on the Heart,
And On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
..........Then what proceeds from the heart ...”should be” fulfilling the Law…
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 12:55:05 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 40
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
With all of the diatribes and people talking over one another, I lost my place. If I may start again fresh, can we agree that Ha Torah(The Law) was never intended as a means of salvation? If we can agree on this I will move on to discuss further.
Good move. Before the debate deteriorated to a fight :))I agree and also yes, it is a good guide for decent living- only if Law is obeyed not only in Letter, but in Spirit. Without true love for God and fellow men even the best Torah observance is a bandaid to a dead body.
The problem comes in when people start making things that are good and beneficial for human life matters of spiritual significance...which they are no longer. For instance, what I eat, in and of itself, has no spiritual significance whatsoever in regard to my relationship to God. As Paul says, 'food for the stomach, and the stomach for food, but both will be destroyed (they have no lasting significance)'.
We are to devote ourselves to eternal matters, not the 'elemental' things of physical human life and the rules that once governed them. Those rules had their place and purpose, but that season has passed and we have moved into the reality they represented. What you consume through your cable TV programming has spiritual significance. What you ate for supper does not. This is the truth that some people simply can't see yet.
The part where you said that “the problem comes in when people star making things” talking about food, I agree with you, that is why we need to follow our creator’s diet, no one is better than Him to know our bodies.
You said “what I eat, …has no spiritual significance whatsoever in regard to my relationship to God.” , I think this just contradict what the word of God says; I love my kids, and my love is show not only in how they dress, or if they are clean, but in what they eat, what I am trying to say is; How much our Heavenly Father?
Peter never says that you can eat unclean animals, he never contradict God’s laws about what you should eat or not:
3 Jn. 1:2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
It looks for me that God is interested in our physical condition, and wants us to enjoy the best of health.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Again we see that because of the close connection between mind and body, when the soul or character prospers, the body is better able to be healthy, when the health of the body is neglected and bad physical habits are established, the religious life also suffers
There are soo many verses that shows how God love us and wants to take care of our health, by what we eat or dring.
1 Cor 10:31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
As you see the Christian’s first motive in living in harmony with God should be to promote the honor of God. In this we show our love for God and our desire to please our Maker; Anyway this body does not belong to us but to Him, and we should take good care of it.
1 Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
So, that is why I agree with you in that we should not fallow what "man" says; but we should fallow what our Maker says, agree?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 1:50:01 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1183
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
As I understand history, Israel's enemies have purposely chosen the Jew's historical festival times to attack,
If that were true, then Israel's enemies would be beleivers...
How does the fact that Israel's enemies take advantage of the time when the nation is preoccupied with it's public festivals make them believers?
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
...and One would think that Israel's enemies would have at least learned the lesson and not support the prophetic word.
The things is, Israel's enemies actually have no clue.
LG
True, they probably don't have a clue about the validity of prophecy. But they are well informed about when Israel is busy with their festival celebrations. A time when their gaurd is likely to be lessened because of the requirements to rest, congregate, celebrate, etc. You don't need a degree in theology to recognize that vulnerability. Nor do you need to believe that God is speaking to them through the time tables of the OT to attack them when they are not as vigilant.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 1:58:38 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1183
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
...Pattern is the same, message is the same.
COME BACK!!!!! Repent! (Turn around, do a 180, come back to obedience)
You have accused me a number of times over the months of not understanding what you are actually saying. So, in light of what you posted here, how have I personally misunderstood what you 'are actually saying'?
Your message comes in loud and clear to me. I really don't think I'm misunderstanding it.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 2:01:47 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1183
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline
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LoyalGypsy, HisPriest,
I have a clear rebuttal to things you've posted here. I will post as time warrants. Scripture will clear up the way you see the matters you addressed.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 8:07:09 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
As I understand history, Israel's enemies have purposely chosen the Jew's historical festival times to attack,
If that were true, then Israel's enemies would be beleivers...
How does the fact that Israel's enemies take advantage of the time when the nation is preoccupied with it's public festivals make them believers?
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
...and One would think that Israel's enemies would have at least learned the lesson and not support the prophetic word.
The things is, Israel's enemies actually have no clue.
LG
True, they probably don't have a clue about the validity of prophecy. But they are well informed about when Israel is busy with their festival celebrations. A time when their gaurd is likely to be lessened because of the requirements to rest, congregate, celebrate, etc.
You don't need a degree in theology to recognize that vulnerability. Nor do you need to believe that God is speaking to them through the time tables of the OT to attack them when they are not as vigilant.
quote:
You don't need a degree in theology to recognize that vulnerability.
What vulnerability???
The Bible tells us there is blessing, so if they are keeping them according to the prophecy.... that they were to keep as everlasting...., then the blessing is still the same....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
Notice.
When ever Israel turns the tide, the UN seeks a cease fire, but if the other side is winning there is no such thing....so in that you are ….Correct....we don't need a degree in theology to recognize that the UN is not God, .....or else God would have his way, .....it looks like the UN is Israel’s biggest vulnerability, not the feasts. 
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 6:45:57 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 803
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I have a question. Why is it that people accuse other's of being legalistic when they follow what is written in the Bible(NT refs)? When replying with scripture that tells us we should be doing this and as Christians, we should not be doing that? It seems to me that only those who choose to live differently than scripture outlines, that they want to claim legalism. Did Christ not continue to live as He was raised in Jewish Tradition, continuing to honor the feasts and observe, what I have heard some of you refer to as moral laws? (Asking because I am not sure) It would then seem to me that if we are to be Christ like, we should also do this as well. So where exactly does legalism fit into this? Isn't going against God's Word rebellion?
And why is it that if one is not going around doing worldly things and suggesting to others that they might not want to proceed in that fashion being a legalist? What is hard about the Bible saying do not and us believing it? OOOOH that's right, I forgot about forgiveness. I forgot that we can live worldly and go running to Jesus, so living like that is ok. Never mind that He already told us how to do it and showed us how He did do it. It just seems like, since God's character does not change, has not changed, He's still not going to change how He views sin. Did He send His son to do away with His wrath? Yes, for those who choose Him. Does His wrath go away for the ungodly? I don't see that it does. So where does the law fit into godly living? By Jesus purifying our hearts. Thoughts?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 8:32:09 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
...Pattern is the same, message is the same.
COME BACK!!!!! Repent! (Turn around, do a 180, come back to obedience)
So, in light of what you posted here, how have I personally misunderstood what you 'are actually saying'?
Greetings,
The message is the same, let’s define some obedience and take peek at the rest…
Ex 5:2
And Pharaoh (a type of Satan) said, "Who is the Lord, that I (the spirit of the world) should obey His voice to let Israel go? .....I do not know the Lord, ......nor will I let Israel go."
This means the spirit of the world does not know Gods plan and is opposed to Israel going into the Promised Land.
Ex 23:22
But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I (God) will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries
Le 26:21
'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins
Duet 11
10 For the land which you go to possess is not like the land of Egypt from which you have come, where you sowed your seed and watered it by foot, as a vegetable garden; 11 but the land which you cross over to possess is a land of hills and valleys, which drinks water from the rain of heaven,
12 a land for which the Lord your God cares; the eyes of the Lord your God are always on it, from the beginning of the year to the very end of the year.
13 'And it shall be that if you earnestly obey My commandments which I command you today, to love the Lord your God and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 then I will give you the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your grain, your new wine, and your oil.
What was it that Moses commanded them...that they should serve God with all their heart and with all your soul
That was written in verse 1
1 "Therefore you shall love the Lord your God, and keep His charge, His statutes, His judgments, and His commandments always.
The order seen here in this is
Love
The Law
Charge
Statutes
Judgments
The Prophets
Commandments
1Co 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing
This means that without Love, Paul can not keep these
Charge
Statutes
Judgments
Commandments
Therefore,
Ro 3:21 - Show Context
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
……..But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, = Love
………..Witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
.Charge
..Statutes
…Judgments
….Commandments
Matt 22
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?"
Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 On these “two” commandments = Love hang “all the Law and the Prophets."
All =
Charge
Statutes
Judgments
Commandments
...........Since Jesus fulfilled the
Charge
Statutes
Judgments
..........This leaves the first and the last
…Love
….Commandments
Re 22:13 - Show Context
I am the Alpha,
• in alpha order….the brightest or main star in a constellation
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth.
I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me “”together”” with Yourself, with the glory “”which I had”” with You before the world was. =alpha
and the Omega, the end, or the last thing in a series
the Beginning and the End (of the year)
Deut 11:12
...........11 but the land which you cross over to possess is a land of hills and valleys, which drinks water from the rain of heaven, (The women at the well)
.....12 a land for which the Lord your God cares; the eyes of the Lord your God "are always on it", , from the beginning of the year to the very end of the year.
The First and the Last."
1 Love
2 xx
3 xxx
4 xxxx
5 The Commandments
For a numerical of 15, Do you know the prophetic significant of the geometric number 15 is, in the Torah???
quote:
So, in light of what you posted here, how have I personally misunderstood what you 'are actually saying'?
Unless I am mistaken, he was speaking nothing personally,
But…. in not so many words, I believe he was speaking all the above, the quote here.
Am I close Lapidoth ??
I may be a little off, but not much, and there is so much prophecy to glean in between, and so little time..
Loyal Gypsy
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/28/2008 8:43:20 AM >
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 9:09:13 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 803
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