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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 2:23:21 AM
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Corne
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The NT has plenty to say on the perspective on the law before and after Christ, and about right living.
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 3:51:59 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
The NT has plenty to say on the perspective on the law before and after Christ, and about right living.
Then what is one to do if one wants to marry one's sister or is invited to a meal with cannibles when one is serving as a missonary in Borneo? What does the Apistolic Writings(NT) say about that.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 4:26:42 PM
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Corne
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I believe it says to give thanks first. 
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 4:37:42 PM
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Corne
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If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.
At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.
Example: How much training does it take to get that murder is wrong? Yet those in Christ are not supposed to live by that rule. We are supposed to be keeping our hearts free from sinful anger, (which doesn't allow for murder) and loving as Christ loved with the indwelling help of the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 5:12:00 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.
At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.
Example: How much training does it take to get that murder is wrong? Yet those in Christ are not supposed to live by that rule. We are supposed to be keeping our hearts free from sinful anger, (which doesn't allow for murder) and loving as Christ loved with the indwelling help of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, it does. However, one must determine what is sinful anger. Also, many murderers have no feelings one way or the other with regard to the person they are murdering. In some cases the person believes they are performing a loving act when they commit what some would consider murder. Not to get sidetracked on whether one is correct or not, some people who are apposed to war believe that abortion on demand is no problem.
The Apistolic Writings do not give clear direction in these cases. Apart from the first example, all of these are positions held by people who consider themselves christian. Without HaTorah to guide us how do we clear up these misunderstandings? This is a rather straight forward command. What about the ones that are not so clear? As Paul tells us, (Rom. 7:7) "Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."" Therefore, it is in studying and applying HaTorah as guided by Adonai's Spirit that we live in ways that are acceptable to him.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/2/2009 5:19:12 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 5:12:58 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.
Yes, indeed, I do turn to the Master for how to live sinlessly as possible.
quote:
At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.
I wasn't aware that we could graduate away from the need of Scripture.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 5:13:59 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2719
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.
Yes, indeed, I do turn to the Master for how to live sinlessly as possible.
quote:
At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.
I wasn't aware that we could graduate away from the need of Scripture.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 5:52:15 PM
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Corne
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Never said that, thank you very much. Have really made a point to affirm the integrity and usefulness of scripture.
How is viewing murder as Jesus said to, living away from the need of scripture?
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 5:54:19 PM
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Corne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Also, many murderers have no feelings one way or the other with regard to the person they are murdering. In some cases the person believes they are performing a loving act when they commit what some would consider murder. Not to get sidetracked on whether one is correct or not, some people who are apposed to war believe that abortion on demand is no problem.
Among believers?
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 6:22:58 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Also, many murderers have no feelings one way or the other with regard to the person they are murdering. In some cases the person believes they are performing a loving act when they commit what some would consider murder. Not to get sidetracked on whether one is correct or not, some people who are apposed to war believe that abortion on demand is no problem.
Among believers?
Yes, some of the people who are apposed to war and believe that abortion on demand is no problem profess to be chirstians. You haven't heard of this among methodists and presbyterians? Also, there is the controversy over "assisted suicide". So, there are areas where a little direction is helpful.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2009 7:19:33 PM
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Corne
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Whose advocating a lack of teaching?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 12:54:10 AM
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agapist
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Faith is not a work but an instrument in apprehending Christ, by whom we are made ritghteous.
The likeness of Christ is greater than the law. And the work of the spirit to renew us in that image is greater than the law can perform. Law-keeping cannot transform us into Christ's image.
Walking in spirit and living in Christ will never be contrary to the law. It will always demonstrate the goodness of the law.
The hallmark of the NT is death to self: no power or control over maintaining our righteousness or our improvement.
The Law cannot keep us in favor with God.
The law cannot improve our moral qualities or improve our character.
The Law cannot keep flesh in submission.
We cannot please God through obedience of the law.
We live by faith in Christ and not by obedience to the law.
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 7:34:42 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Whose advocating a lack of teaching?
Taeching is the imparting and instruction in the application of information. If there is no defined standard by which one can determine if the information has been imparted and applied, there is no way to determine if teaching has taken place.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 7:39:36 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
Walking in spirit and living in Christ will never be contrary to the law. It will always demonstrate the goodness of the law.
Therefore, would it not be a good test of whether one is Walking in spirit and living in HaMeshiach to determine if that one is living contrary to HaTorah?
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 11:39:10 PM
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PROPHETSONG
Posts: 84
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According to Jesus all law and the prophets is summed up in 2 commands that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
If you love Jesus you will seek to do the things that please him. When I fell in love with a girl, I changed my whole life to accommodate her. If she told me that I did something to displease her, I made sure that I altered my behavior, so that I could remain close to her. I changed my dress, my language, who I associated with, and avoided taking on personal commitments is that took from my time with her. If I had to sacrifice something that I wanted to please her it was no big thing for me. For the sake of love I did some crazy stuff. I am sure that some you reading this can relate. This comparison is really a minute thing compared to how we should love God. The love that I owe God goes beyond that which I gave my former girlfriend. What do you value above all? Is it family, friends, power or position? If your love for anything else in this world, out shine your love for the Lord, then you can not be his disciple. If desire to follow Jesus then your love for him must consume you life, to the point that you lose yourself in him. Jesus loved the Father the with total abandonment. Every thing in the life of Christ was about what pleased the Father. The Son's love for the Father was the motivation behind him always doing the things that pleased the Father. In like manner we are love Jesus and do the things that always please him. The mind of Jesus is always focused on the will of God, and this mindset, is the mindset that we will have if we are truly led by the Spirit of God. Jesus' love made him obedient onto death even the death of the Cross. Your love for God must be sacrificial. Our you willing to lay down your life? If not then your love for God is badly lacking. All the Prophets and Apostles had this thing in common, they did not love their own lives onto death.
They rather die than live in a state of compromise. This was the heart of the three Hebrew children in the book of Daniel, that rather be burned alive than deny their God. This what it means to love God with everything you have and are.
To love your neighbor as yourself is exemplified in Jesus' sacrifice at the cross. He became the kernel of wheat that falls to the ground and dies to create a harvest. At the Cross God put a value on human life, and declared that all men are worth dying for. If we are to truly walk in Jesus steps we must take on that same mindset, that Jesus had. In love he came to serve, and not to be served, in spite of the fact that he was the heir of all things. You can not walk with Jesus unless your are willing to love the brethren as Jesus loved the brethren, and laid down his life for us.
This type of love is the foundation of the Law and the prophets. This is the love that existed between David, and Jonathan. David was by ,God declared to be a man after his own heart. If you examine his life and their is the marks of God's love in his nature. Saul sought to kill David, but still David loved him like a son loves a Father. Even after the Death of Saul he sought to be good to the house of Saul by taking care of what was left of Saul's house.
In spite of his sons Absolom's rebellion, he still loved his son with the love of a Father, to the point that he was angry with the man that killed the son that sought to kill his father. David was a man of deep love. He was a lot like Jesus.
The Spirit of the love of God in Jesus Christ fore-fills the for rightness of the Law of Moses.
Jesus said that the greater part of the Law was not giving tithes, but being just and merciful. In this Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees how to for-fill the law through love, not ritual.
_____________________________
JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land. WWW.PROPHETSONG.MYSITE.COM
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/25/2009 12:39:12 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG
According to Jesus all law and the prophets is summed up in 2 commands that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
If you love Jesus you will seek to do the things that please him. When I fell in love with a girl, I changed my whole life to accommodate her. If she told me that I did something to displease her, I made sure that I altered my behavior, so that I could remain close to her. I changed my dress, my language, who I associated with, and avoided taking on personal commitments is that took from my time with her. If I had to sacrifice something that I wanted to please her it was no big thing for me. For the sake of love I did some crazy stuff. I am sure that some you reading this can relate. This comparison is really a minute thing compared to how we should love God. The love that I owe God goes beyond that which I gave my former girlfriend. What do you value above all? Is it family, friends, power or position? If your love for anything else in this world, out shine your love for the Lord, then you can not be his disciple. If desire to follow Jesus then your love for him must consume you life, to the point that you lose yourself in him. Jesus loved the Father the with total abandonment. Every thing in the life of Christ was about what pleased the Father. The Son's love for the Father was the motivation behind him always doing the things that pleased the Father. In like manner we are love Jesus and do the things that always please him. The mind of Jesus is always focused on the will of God, and this mindset, is the mindset that we will have if we are truly led by the Spirit of God. Jesus' love made him obedient onto death even the death of the Cross. Your love for God must be sacrificial. Our you willing to lay down your life? If not then your love for God is badly lacking. All the Prophets and Apostles had this thing in common, they did not love their own lives onto death.
They rather die than live in a state of compromise. This was the heart of the three Hebrew children in the book of Daniel, that rather be burned alive than deny their God. This what it means to love God with everything you have and are.
To love your neighbor as yourself is exemplified in Jesus' sacrifice at the cross. He became the kernel of wheat that falls to the ground and dies to create a harvest. At the Cross God put a value on human life, and declared that all men are worth dying for. If we are to truly walk in Jesus steps we must take on that same mindset, that Jesus had. In love he came to serve, and not to be served, in spite of the fact that he was the heir of all things. You can not walk with Jesus unless your are willing to love the brethren as Jesus loved the brethren, and laid down his life for us.
This type of love is the foundation of the Law and the prophets. This is the love that existed between David, and Jonathan. David was by ,God declared to be a man after his own heart. If you examine his life and their is the marks of God's love in his nature. Saul sought to kill David, but still David loved him like a son loves a Father. Even after the Death of Saul he sought to be good to the house of Saul by taking care of what was left of Saul's house.
In spite of his sons Absolom's rebellion, he still loved his son with the love of a Father, to the point that he was angry with the man that killed the son that sought to kill his father. David was a man of deep love. He was a lot like Jesus.
The Spirit of the love of God in Jesus Christ fore-fills the for rightness of the Law of Moses.
Jesus said that the greater part of the Law was not giving tithes, but being just and merciful. In this Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees how to for-fill the law through love, not ritual.
Yes, ritualistic obedience is not acceptable to Adonai, unless it is part of the process of submission in developing understanding. However, did not Yeshua tell us, (Mt 23:23) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." This is the proper practice of HaTorah. Most financial advisers will say, it is much more pracical to set aside a given amount on a regular basis than wait for an emergency. If the secular advisers can show this forsight, aught not we who have been instructed by Adonai do so?
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/25/2009 12:45:22 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/25/2009 11:59:32 PM
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PROPHETSONG
Posts: 84
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG
According to Jesus all law and the prophets is summed up in 2 commands that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
If you love Jesus you will seek to do the things that please him. When I fell in love with a girl, I changed my whole life to accommodate her. If she told me that I did something to displease her, I made sure that I altered my behavior, so that I could remain close to her. I changed my dress, my language, who I associated with, and avoided taking on personal commitments is that took from my time with her. If I had to sacrifice something that I wanted to please her it was no big thing for me. For the sake of love I did some crazy stuff. I am sure that some you reading this can relate. This comparison is really a minute thing compared to how we should love God. The love that I owe God goes beyond that which I gave my former girlfriend. What do you value above all? Is it family, friends, power or position? If your love for anything else in this world, out shine your love for the Lord, then you can not be his disciple. If desire to follow Jesus then your love for him must consume you life, to the point that you lose yourself in him. Jesus loved the Father the with total abandonment. Every thing in the life of Christ was about what pleased the Father. The Son's love for the Father was the motivation behind him always doing the things that pleased the Father. In like manner we are love Jesus and do the things that always please him. The mind of Jesus is always focused on the will of God, and this mindset, is the mindset that we will have if we are truly led by the Spirit of God. Jesus' love made him obedient onto death even the death of the Cross. Your love for God must be sacrificial. Our you willing to lay down your life? If not then your love for God is badly lacking. All the Prophets and Apostles had this thing in common, they did not love their own lives onto death.
They rather die than live in a state of compromise. This was the heart of the three Hebrew children in the book of Daniel, that rather be burned alive than deny their God. This what it means to love God with everything you have and are.
To love your neighbor as yourself is exemplified in Jesus' sacrifice at the cross. He became the kernel of wheat that falls to the ground and dies to create a harvest. At the Cross God put a value on human life, and declared that all men are worth dying for. If we are to truly walk in Jesus steps we must take on that same mindset, that Jesus had. In love he came to serve, and not to be served, in spite of the fact that he was the heir of all things. You can not walk with Jesus unless your are willing to love the brethren as Jesus loved the brethren, and laid down his life for us.
This type of love is the foundation of the Law and the prophets. This is the love that existed between David, and Jonathan. David was by ,God declared to be a man after his own heart. If you examine his life and their is the marks of God's love in his nature. Saul sought to kill David, but still David loved him like a son loves a Father. Even after the Death of Saul he sought to be good to the house of Saul by taking care of what was left of Saul's house.
In spite of his sons Absolom's rebellion, he still loved his son with the love of a Father, to the point that he was angry with the man that killed the son that sought to kill his father. David was a man of deep love. He was a lot like Jesus.
The Spirit of the love of God in Jesus Christ fore-fills the for rightness of the Law of Moses.
Jesus said that the greater part of the Law was not giving tithes, but being just and merciful. In this Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees how to for-fill the law through love, not ritual.
Yes, ritualistic obedience is not acceptable to Adonai, unless it is part of the process of submission in developing understanding. However, did not Yeshua tell us, (Mt 23:23) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." This is the proper practice of HaTorah. Most financial advisers will say, it is much more pracical to set aside a given amount on a regular basis than wait for an emergency. If the secular advisers can show this forsight, aught not we who have been instructed by Adonai do so?
I am a firm believer in giving the tithe and offering. The verse you presented clearly that Messiah himself indorced it himself. However, in all og our giving we must give with heart. If we give we with a heart of thankfulness and gratitude toward God for all his goodness towards us, Adonai will accept it. God loves a cheerful giver. Giving to the house of God, should be out of our love relationship with him, because G-d looks not at the outward appearance, but at the thoughts and intensions of the heart. I believe in tithing 100%, but it must be done with the proper state of the heart, or else it is just a dead ritual.
_____________________________
JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land. WWW.PROPHETSONG.MYSITE.COM
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 10/26/2009 12:56:31 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG
I am a firm believer in giving the tithe and offering. The verse you presented clearly that Messiah himself indorced it himself. However, in all og our giving we must give with heart. If we give we with a heart of thankfulness and gratitude toward God for all his goodness towards us, Adonai will accept it. God loves a cheerful giver. Giving to the house of God, should be out of our love relationship with him, because G-d looks not at the outward appearance, but at the thoughts and intensions of the heart. I believe in tithing 100%, but it must be done with the proper state of the heart, or else it is just a dead ritual.
This too is Torah.
Ex 25:2 "Tell the Israelites to bring me an offering. You are to receive the offering for me from each man whose heart prompts him to give."
De 4:29 "But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul."
De 10:12 "And now, O Israel, what does the Lord your God ask of you but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, . . ."
De 15:10 "Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to."
De 30:6 "The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live."
De 30:10 "if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
Shall we continue into the Haftorah(rest of the OT)? This is not all of the verses in HaTorah, but I did not want to include those you might contest on contextual grounds.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/26/2009 1:09:56 AM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2009 4:20:18 PM
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eterno
Posts: 47
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline
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Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.
I read the following and...
"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.
It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "
SO:
I can certainly agree with the the first statement..
The second however seems a little off-color for a new covenant Christian.
Our righteousness will never be more than dirty rags before GOD, so Christ gave us his righteousness.
HE has slain the old man with him on the cross and given us the Eternal life of Christ to live.
When we live to Christ it is his life in us. When we fail to.. it is sin living in us , not our old man. Christ living in us gives us the power to choose not to sin, it does not however remove freewill. Every thing from salvation to the word of GOD being written on our hearts was the planned "mystery" from the foundations of the world.
Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2009 4:43:32 PM
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PROPHETSONG
Posts: 84
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eterno
Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.
I read the following and...
"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.
It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "
SO:
I can certainly agree with the the first statement..
The second however seems a little off-color for a new covenant Christian.
Our righteousness will never be more than dirty rags before GOD, so Christ gave us his righteousness.
HE has slain the old man with him on the cross and given us the Eternal life of Christ to live.
When we live to Christ it is his life in us. When we fail to.. it is sin living in us , not our old man. Christ living in us gives us the power to choose not to sin, it does not however remove freewill. Every thing from salvation to the word of GOD being written on our hearts was the planned "mystery" from the foundations of the world.
Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?
Christ by nature of his flawless character for filled the righteous standard of the Law in his own life.
The true believer in Jesus , has the Character of God in Jesus Christ living with in him by virtue the Holy Spirit living with in you.
Christ with in is the very ability of God to act in line with what is right before the eyes of God.
This is why the Bible says that God made him that knew no sin to become sin that we may become the righteousness of God in him.
God revealed his righteous standard of living through the Law. Through Jesus he has given us his very own ability to live in it.
_____________________________
JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land. WWW.PROPHETSONG.MYSITE.COM
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2009 5:29:32 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eterno
Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.
I read the following and...
"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.
It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "
quote:
Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?
Are you saying the serial murderer, adultarer, or thief is living just as righteously as one who walks in His ways in regard to these things?
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/11/2009 11:47:41 AM
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wordtheology
Posts: 30
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In Galatians 5: 14, we are reminded that 'loving neighbor as self' fulfills the Law. Who could argue that we aren't expected to live according to this rule?
www.wordtheology.com
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2009 3:58:15 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wordtheology
In Galatians 5: 14, we are reminded that 'loving neighbor as self' fulfills the Law. Who could argue that we aren't expected to live according to this rule?
www.wordtheology.com
The argument isn't over whether or not one should live by that rule. Paul is quoting HaTorah, even though many are not aware of that. The discussion is over what is meant by that commandment. Is it best left as a general concept that each is to interpret based on the circumstance or whether we have instructions in Ha Torah that help us to understand what it means.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2009 5:32:59 PM
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eterno
Posts: 47
Joined: 8/12/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: eterno
Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.
I read the following and...
"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.
It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "
quote:
Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?
Are you saying the serial murderer, adultarer, or thief is living just as righteously as one who walks in His ways in regard to these things?
I am saying this.. *If Jeffery Dahmer truly received Christ, then just like the thief on the cross with Christ he is forgiven, if Mother Teresa never truly received Christ, in spite of all the good works then she has blasphemed the testimony of the HOLY SPRIT and is not forgiven. Christ blood was powerful enough to "take away the sins of the whole world". However The FATHER will never force a unrepentant person to spend one second with HIM much less an eternity.
* Concept from The Grip of Grace, Max Lucado
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RE: Keep the Law? - One Stop Thread - 11/13/2009 4:58:46 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eterno
I am saying this.. *If Jeffery Dahmer truly received Christ, then just like the thief on the cross with Christ he is forgiven, if Mother Teresa never truly received Christ, in spite of all the good works then she has blasphemed the testimony of the HOLY SPRIT and is not forgiven. Christ blood was powerful enough to "take away the sins of the whole world". However The FATHER will never force a unrepentant person to spend one second with HIM much less an eternity.
* Concept from The Grip of Grace, Max Lucado
Yes, that is true regarding salvation. However, if they were still alive and they were both applying to move into your building, which would you choose? Though mother Teresa did not keep HaTorah, she practiced more of it than Jeffery Dahmer did.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 11/13/2009 5:06:04 PM >
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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